The Ali vs Frazier ABC Studios Fight

[Kalan]

When asked "Would you have come out for the 15th round in the Thrilla even if it meant your life?"

Joe, after a long pause "...Yes"

It's possible he's telling the truth.... You have your whole life ahead of you, but you're ready to sacrifice it for pride... That may be why Pride is one of the 7 deadly sins that are always talked about.

The 7 sins are: Lust... Gluttony... Greed... Sloth... Wrath... Envy... and Pride is the last and deadliest sin. Many people believe that these sins are deadly because they cause eternal damnation.... That’s a misunderstanding according to Biblical scholars... The sins are deadly because human being are literally willing to DIE to satisfy these 7 passions.

You know, I’ve never figured out how you can be “passionate” about sloth? … The other deadly sins figure... but sacrificing your life for sloth doesn’t make a lick of sense to me... I've never read or heard a great explanation.

[gilgamesh]

When asked "Would you have come out for the 15th round in the Thrilla even if it meant your life?"

Joe, after a long pause "...Yes"

It's possible he's telling the truth.... You have your whole life ahead of you, but you're ready to sacrifice it for pride... That may be why Pride is one of the 7 deadly sins that are always talked about.

The 7 sins are: Lust... Gluttony... Greed... Sloth... Wrath... Envy... and Pride is the last and deadliest sin. Many people believe that these sins are deadly because they cause eternal damnation.... That’s a misunderstanding according to Biblical scholars... The sins are deadly because human being are literally willing to DIE to satisfy these 7 passions.

You know, I’ve never figured out how you can be “passionate” about sloth? … The other deadly sins figure... but sacrificing your life for sloth doesn’t make a lick of sense to me... I've never read or heard a great explanation.

I genuinely do agree with this post Kalan. I don't see how you could be passionate about "Sloth" either.

Agreements between you and I are certainly rarities, but this is one of them. Sincerely.

[Kalan]

The best explanation I've come across is that some formerly privileged individuals would rather die than bust their ass to make their own way in life... They're used to 3 squares and a life of luxury.

When their well-to-do parents - who are no longer legally obliged to support them, finally get fed up and throw them out after years of sponging – telling them to sink or swim – they sometimes end up dying on the street or in some hovel. Maybe that’s where the “deadly” comes in. The passion they have for the sin? That’s harder to see.

[SenorPipino]

The other thing we have to remember is that Ali stole the spotlight on Frazier and practically ruined any chance of Frazier enjoying his reign. Joe was miserable after the FOTC. I believe more emotionally drained than physically. An interesting fact when you think about it.

Well Ali did pretty much eliminate the entire heavyweight division after the FOTC.

Meanwhile, after a 10 month sabbatical, Frazier defended twice against the dreaded Daniels and Stander, before being bounced around by Foreman.

The contenders that Ali beat up on were the same ones that Frazier decided to pass on, so how did he "steal the spotlight?"

I think he earned the spotlight.

Ali gave the Ellis' the Mathis' the Pattersons' the Bugners' the Fosters' and the Quarrys' the big fight opportunity that Frazier denied them.

Ali's goal was to clean out the heavyweight division and force a reluctant Frazier to fight him in a rematch.

He accomplished that.

If Frazier was unable to enjoy his reign, then he has only himself to blame.

[BroughtonRulesRefuge]

Well Ali did pretty much eliminate the entire heavyweight division after the FOTC.

Meanwhile, after a 10 month sabbatical, Frazier defended twice against the dreaded Daniels and Stander, before being bounced around by Foreman.

The contenders that Ali beat up on were the same ones that Frazier decided to pass on, so how did he "steal the spotlight?"

I think he earned the spotlight.

Ali gave the Ellis' the Mathis' the Pattersons' the Bugners' the Fosters' and the Quarrys' the big fight opportunity that Frazier denied them.

Ali's goal was to clean out the heavyweight division and force a reluctant Frazier to fight him in a rematch.

He accomplished that.

If Frazier was unable to enjoy his reign, then he has only himself to blame.

- Señor, son, we respect your religious beliefs, but do you have to soil yourself so in propagating them?

Joe knocked out Ellis, Mathis, and Quarry before Ali ever got around to them. Whooped Bugner and Bonavena x2 and dispatched Machen who Ali never fought. Knocked out Chuvalo in between Ali going life and death with him.

Git thee to a monkery for some serious study time so you won't embarrass the public in your soiled state.

C'mon, show some respect and pride!

[SenorPipino]

They were all still top 10 contenders BRR.

Frazier certainly wasn't fighting any during that 2 year span between the FOTC and the Foreman debacle.

Ali spanked them all while Frazier preferred to recover and then engage in 2 virtual exhibitions.

Frazier certainly doesn't deserve any plaudits for his post-FOTC activity.

Ali kept the heavyweight division alive while Frazier preferred to keep the heavyweight championship practically dormant.

[oogiebe]

The other thing we have to remember is that Ali stole the spotlight on Frazier and practically ruined any chance of Frazier enjoying his reign. Joe was miserable after the FOTC. I believe more emotionally drained than physically. An interesting fact when you think about it.

Well Ali did pretty much eliminate the entire heavyweight division after the FOTC.

Meanwhile, after a 10 month sabbatical, Frazier defended twice against the dreaded Daniels and Stander, before being bounced around by Foreman.

The contenders that Ali beat up on were the same ones that Frazier decided to pass on, so how did he "steal the spotlight?"

I think he earned the spotlight.

Ali gave the Ellis' the Mathis' the Pattersons' the Bugners' the Fosters' and the Quarrys' the big fight opportunity that Frazier denied them.

Ali's goal was to clean out the heavyweight division and force a reluctant Frazier to fight him in a rematch.

He accomplished that.

If Frazier was unable to enjoy his reign, then he has only himself to blame.

You're not getting me at all here. I'm saying WHILE FRAZIER WAS CHAMP, Ali stole the spotlight, which took away Frazier's spotlight DURING FRAZIER'S REIGN. There...that should make things clear. Thank you. Please tip your waitress.

[SenorPipino]

The other thing we have to remember is that Ali stole the spotlight on Frazier and practically ruined any chance of Frazier enjoying his reign. Joe was miserable after the FOTC. I believe more emotionally drained than physically. An interesting fact when you think about it.

Well Ali did pretty much eliminate the entire heavyweight division after the FOTC.

Meanwhile, after a 10 month sabbatical, Frazier defended twice against the dreaded Daniels and Stander, before being bounced around by Foreman.

The contenders that Ali beat up on were the same ones that Frazier decided to pass on, so how did he "steal the spotlight?"

I think he earned the spotlight.

Ali gave the Ellis' the Mathis' the Pattersons' the Bugners' the Fosters' and the Quarrys' the big fight opportunity that Frazier denied them.

Ali's goal was to clean out the heavyweight division and force a reluctant Frazier to fight him in a rematch.

He accomplished that.

If Frazier was unable to enjoy his reign, then he has only himself to blame.

You're not getting me at all here. I'm saying WHILE FRAZIER WAS CHAMP, Ali stole the spotlight, which took away Frazier's spotlight DURING FRAZIER'S REIGN. There...that should make things clear. Thank you. Please tip your waitress.

I'm not tipping the waitress until you explain what stealing the spotlight from Frazier means.

Stealing makes it sound like Ali was unethical and undeserving, even if he did fight every 3 months against a slew of top 10 fighters.

Frazier was champion. He certainly had the opportunity to fight frequently after the FOTC, but he chose not to.

It seems that if Frazier was concerned about a spotlight, he would have increased his workload. Taken some high profile bouts instead of home television matchups with non-entities Daniels and Stander.

Got down to business and offered Ali a rematch. That's what fans clamored for.

Instead Frazier was content to do little. He wouldn't agree to a return bout with Ali until he had been humiliated by Foreman and needed to reestablish his credibility.

Ali had the "it" factor. Charisma. Fans were more interested in seeing him fight a Rudi Lubbers or a Jurgen Blin then they were in watching Frazier fight anybody.

But that's not stealing. The public spoke and Frazier came in a distant second.

Ali didn't need to apologize. He more than carried his weight to enliven a dormant division.

Frazier instead, dropped the ball.

Now I'll leave the tip if you pay the bill.

[Kalan]

Well Ali did pretty much eliminate the entire heavyweight division after the FOTC...

Hmmm... Ali lost to Frazier in 1971.... And Ali lost to Norton in '73... Most had Ali losing the Norton rematch later in '73 and losing the rubber match in '76... Ali certainly didn't eliminate anybody... Cooney eliminated Norton... Frazier was eliminated by high blood pressure, an enlarged heart, and George Foreman... Young eliminated Foreman for 10 years - which is a long time to take a respite I'd say... Holmes eliminated Ali, who quit because he knew he couldn't beat the Eastoner.

[oogiebe]

Well Ali did pretty much eliminate the entire heavyweight division after the FOTC.

Meanwhile, after a 10 month sabbatical, Frazier defended twice against the dreaded Daniels and Stander, before being bounced around by Foreman.

The contenders that Ali beat up on were the same ones that Frazier decided to pass on, so how did he "steal the spotlight?"

I think he earned the spotlight.

Ali gave the Ellis' the Mathis' the Pattersons' the Bugners' the Fosters' and the Quarrys' the big fight opportunity that Frazier denied them.

Ali's goal was to clean out the heavyweight division and force a reluctant Frazier to fight him in a rematch.

He accomplished that.

If Frazier was unable to enjoy his reign, then he has only himself to blame.

You're not getting me at all here. I'm saying WHILE FRAZIER WAS CHAMP, Ali stole the spotlight, which took away Frazier's spotlight DURING FRAZIER'S REIGN. There...that should make things clear. Thank you. Please tip your waitress.

I'm not tipping the waitress until you explain what stealing the spotlight from Frazier means.

Stealing makes it sound like Ali was unethical and undeserving, even if he did fight every 3 months against a slew of top 10 fighters.

Frazier was champion. He certainly had the opportunity to fight frequently after the FOTC, but he chose not to.

It seems that if Frazier was concerned about a spotlight, he would have increased his workload. Taken some high profile bouts instead of home television matchups with non-entities Daniels and Stander.

Got down to business and offered Ali a rematch. That's what fans clamored for.

Instead Frazier was content to do little. He wouldn't agree to a return bout with Ali until he had been humiliated by Foreman and needed to reestablish his credibility.

Ali had the "it" factor. Charisma. Fans were more interested in seeing him fight a Rudi Lubbers or a Jurgen Blin then they were in watching Frazier fight anybody.

But that's not stealing. The public spoke and Frazier came in a distant second.

Ali didn't need to apologize. He more than carried his weight to enliven a dormant division.

Frazier instead, dropped the ball.

Now I'll leave the tip if you pay the bill.

I've gone over this plenty already. I've moved on.

[Kalan]

Ali had the "it" factor. Charisma. Fans were more interested in seeing him fight a Rudi Lubbers or a Jurgen Blin then they were in watching Frazier fight anybody.

NOPE!!! MANY MORE people were cheering as Frazier decked and beat the clown .... (which is what Frazier called Ali)

You see....Ali was known as "The Louisville Lip." Ali was such a loud mouth (there was a method to his madness) that most white fans were more interested in seeing Ali knocked on his ass than watching him beat 5th rate pugs who nobody ever heard of... Ali's fights with guys like Lubbers, Blin, and Spinks were on free TV... Not too many people watched... More people watched Frazier kick his ass... More watched reruns of little bitty Leon Spinks kicking his can than watched the live fight.

Mayweather was a better self marketer with the "Money Mayweather" character he invented... Everybody wanted to see Floyd get his ass kicked but nobody ever kicked it... Floyd raked in 10 times the money and took no punishment... Which is more important than the money... Money May didn't get bombed with loaded left hooks ... and was a lot better at his craft.

[oogiebe]

Ali had the "it" factor. Charisma. Fans were more interested in seeing him fight a Rudi Lubbers or a Jurgen Blin then they were in watching Frazier fight anybody.

NOPE!!! MANY MORE people were cheering as Frazier decked and beat the clown .... (which is what Frazier called Ali)

You see....Ali was known as "The Louisville Lip." Ali was such a loud mouth (there was a method to his madness) that most white fans were more interested in seeing Ali knocked on his ass than watching him beat 5th rate pugs who nobody ever heard of... Ali's fights with guys like Lubbers, Blin, and Spinks were on free TV... Not too many people watched... More people watched Frazier kick his ass... More watched reruns of little bitty Leon Spinks kicking his can than watched the live fight.

Mayweather was a better self marketer with the "Money Mayweather" character he invented... Everybody wanted to see Floyd get his ass kicked but nobody ever kicked it... Floyd raked in 10 times the money and took no punishment... Which is more important than the money... Money May didn't get bombed with loaded left hooks ... and was a lot better at his craft.

NOPE!!! that was only at the fight. Ali had the majority of American fight fans (Casual or not) in his corner. How'd you like the "nope?"

[Kalan]

Nope is Fine with me.... I speak English...

Ali DIDN'T have the majority of fight fans in his corner... Not in my circles... He was too arrogant which is something I liked... He had me in his corner... But I knew Ali was a dead sucker for left hooks and Frazier had a quick, hard one... I knew Ali was dog meat... Sure enough Frazier started teeing off on Ali right away and getting him with the left hook.

It didn't go down as bad as I thought it would... Frazier was wide open too... Neither was a good defender.

[oogiebe]

Nope is Fine with me.... I speak English...

Ali DIDN'T have the majority of fight fans in his corner... Not in my circles... He was too arrogant which is something I liked... He had me in his corner... But I knew Ali was as dead sucker for left hooks and Frazier had a quick, hard one... I knew Ali was dog meat... Sure enough Frazier started teeing off on Ali right away and getting him with the left hook.

It didn't go down as bad as I thought it would... Frazier was wide open too... Neither was a good defender.

Right, I'm trying to expand your circle. Ali was very popular once the Vietnam war became unpopular and had more overall support than Frazier. Frazier had more support in main stream society, such as where you come from, I'm guessing.

[oogiebe]

Nope is Fine with me.... I speak English...

Ali DIDN'T have the majority of fight fans in his corner... Not in my circles... He was too arrogant which is something I liked... He had me in his corner... But I knew Ali was as dead sucker for left hooks and Frazier had a quick, hard one... I knew Ali was dog meat... Sure enough Frazier started teeing off on Ali right away and getting him with the left hook.

It didn't go down as bad as I thought it would... Frazier was wide open too... Neither was a good defender.

Right, I'm trying to expand your circle. Ali was very popular once the Vietnam war became unpopular and had more overall support than Frazier. Frazier had more support in main stream society, such as where you come from, I'm guessing.

Oh, and go f'k yerself you farggin bastidge

[Flump]

Nope is Fine with me.... I speak English...

Ali DIDN'T have the majority of fight fans in his corner... Not in my circles... He was too arrogant which is something I liked... He had me in his corner... But I knew Ali was a dead sucker for left hooks and Frazier had a quick, hard one... I knew Ali was dog meat... Sure enough Frazier started teeing off on Ali right away and getting him with the left hook.

It didn't go down as bad as I thought it would... Frazier was wide open too... Neither was a good defender.

So as a top, white, handsome, intelligent West Coast heavyweight contender yourself back in that era Kalan, do you think you had the tools to defeat fellow 'Nam CO Muhammad Ali?

I ask because there can't be many top white West Coast based heavyweights of the late 60's/70's still with us, much less still attractive to young ladies and financially comfortable, we need to get your opinions and experiences out there before, well forgive me, things go south.

[Kalan]

Nope is Fine with me.... I speak English...

Ali DIDN'T have the majority of fight fans in his corner... Not in my circles... He was too arrogant which is something I liked... He had me in his corner... But I knew Ali was as dead sucker for left hooks and Frazier had a quick, hard one... I knew Ali was dog meat... Sure enough Frazier started teeing off on Ali right away and getting him with the left hook.

It didn't go down as bad as I thought it would... Frazier was wide open too... Neither was a good defender.

Right, I'm trying to expand your circle. Ali was very popular once the Vietnam war became unpopular and had more overall support than Frazier. Frazier had more support in main stream society, such as where you come from, I'm guessing.

Oh, and go f'k yerself you farggin bastidge

Sorry... I don't have any of your perverted habits noodle brain.

[oogiebe]

Right, I'm trying to expand your circle. Ali was very popular once the Vietnam war became unpopular and had more overall support than Frazier. Frazier had more support in main stream society, such as where you come from, I'm guessing.

Oh, and go f'k yerself you farggin bastidge

Sorry... I don't have any of your perverted habits noodle brain.

Fair enough Kalan! LOL! Never been called a noodle brain, nor have I been accused of having a brain at all! LMAO! You win!

[Kalan]

Nope is Fine with me.... I speak English...

Ali DIDN'T have the majority of fight fans in his corner... Not in my circles... He was too arrogant which is something I liked... He had me in his corner... But I knew Ali was a dead sucker for left hooks and Frazier had a quick, hard one... I knew Ali was dog meat... Sure enough Frazier started teeing off on Ali right away and getting him with the left hook.

It didn't go down as bad as I thought it would... Frazier was wide open too... Neither was a good defender.

So as a top, white, handsome, intelligent West Coast heavyweight contender yourself back in that era Kalan, do you think you had the tools to defeat fellow 'Nam CO Muhammad Ali?

I ask because there can't be many top white West Coast based heavyweights of the late 60's/70's still with us, much less still attractive to young ladies and financially comfortable, we need to get your opinions and experiences out there before, well forgive me, things go south.

I never told anyone I was white.. That's your assumption.. It's possible to live in a white neighborhood, travel in white society, be educated in white schools, marry white women, work for a company where most folks are white, speak and write decent English without being white... Checkout Jack Johnson, Wilt, OJ, Chris Byrd etc... Now you don't have to do any of that if you don't want to.. You can do some of it or none of it.. I'm not judging anyone's choices or lifestyle.. This is a free country, even if we elect total dickheads like Trump and Dubya.

[oogiebe]

...ooo000OOO[not going there]

[Flump]

Nope is Fine with me.... I speak English...

Ali DIDN'T have the majority of fight fans in his corner... Not in my circles... He was too arrogant which is something I liked... He had me in his corner... But I knew Ali was a dead sucker for left hooks and Frazier had a quick, hard one... I knew Ali was dog meat... Sure enough Frazier started teeing off on Ali right away and getting him with the left hook.

It didn't go down as bad as I thought it would... Frazier was wide open too... Neither was a good defender.

So as a top, white, handsome, intelligent West Coast heavyweight contender yourself back in that era Kalan, do you think you had the tools to defeat fellow 'Nam CO Muhammad Ali?

I ask because there can't be many top white West Coast based heavyweights of the late 60's/70's still with us, much less still attractive to young ladies and financially comfortable, we need to get your opinions and experiences out there before, well forgive me, things go south.

I never told anyone I was white.. That's your assumption.. It's possible to live in a white neighborhood, travel in white society, be educated in white schools, marry white women, work for a company where most folks are white, speak and write decent English without being white... Checkout Jack Johnson, Wilt, OJ, Chris Byrd etc... Now you don't have to do any of that if you don't want to.. You can do some of it or none of it.. I'm not judging anyone's choices or lifestyle.. This is a free country, even if we elect total dickheads like Trump and Dubya.

You are quite correct Kalan you didn't and having grown up in a multi cultural society in the 20th century I am perfectly aware of all this. However, my question was do you think you could have defeated Muhammad Ali?

[Kalan]

Did you think Ken Norton or Michael Spinks were going to kick his butt? on you for asking.

[oogiebe]

Did you think Ken Norton or Michael Spinks were going to kick his butt? on you for asking.

What kind of an answer is that? I want to know too. In fact I'm thinking about starting a poll, "can Kalan defeat Ali?" Hmmm...

[Kalan]

Poll fans before Ali fought Norton or Spinks, and I'm certain who'd win the poll... Same for a poll who won the Klitschko-Lewis fight... I was confident Hillary was going to beat Trump based on polls... You can shove polls up the ying yang.

[BoxBuzz]

Far too much disenchantment on this thread. As some point I'll break out the Pine-Sol and clean it up, and place it back in the record for further relevant comments.....but the stench is too fresh for the moment.