P4P Best Welsh Boxer Ever? Wilde Or Calzaghe?

[BitPlayer]

Both have incredible unbeaten runs, both Welsh, both canidates for best Brit boxer too.

[nobleart1978]

JIMMY WILDE for me.

I appreciate its hard to gauge Wilde's abilities because of the lack of film footage of him so I'm going on contemporary reports and verbal testimony from boxing historians.

Life would have been tough in the valleys 100 odd years ago.

Wilde was the best flyweight ever for me and the best from Wales.

[elmersalsa]

Joe Calzaghe to me is not a top 100 pound per pound great boxer of all time. He is not in the Mighty Atom's class.

[Boxerbeetle]

Impossible for me to really judge Wilde accurately as I know so little about his contemporary opposition, so I’ll have to default to Calzaghe.

[Kalan]

Good choice.... Calzaghe was 100 X better.

One of the reasons Boxing was outlawed in many areas in those days is because of fraudulent business practices.

With Wilde and a few others charlatans, opponents were often solicited off the street and given phony names. They were introduced to the crowd with phony records. They were never heard from again after padding the record of their only opponent. Wilde was probably the worst record padder in Fistic History… He engaged in many fraudulent fights...

Wilde was in his 49th fight — more fights than Calzaghe fought in his entire career — before he beat somebody who had more than 1 victory who’d won most of his fights. That opponent was Billy Padden who was 2-0-1. Although Padden won 4 fights in his entire 13 fight career, he fought Jimmy Wilde 3 times. Wilde fought 2 more fights that month his 50th and 51st fights .... and both opponents were making their pro debut.

[Sidney Carton]

P4P Best Welsh Boxer Ever? Wilde Or Calzaghe?

You've got to be kidding.

[prewarboxing]

Good choice.... Calzaghe was 100 X better.

One of the reasons Boxing was outlawed in many areas in those days is because of fraudulent business practices.

With Wilde and a few others charlatans, opponents were often solicited off the street and given phony names. They were introduced to the crowd with phony records. They were never heard from again after padding the record of their only opponent. Wilde was probably the worst record padder in Fistic History… He engaged in many fraudulent fights...

Wilde was in his 49th fight — more fights than Calzaghe fought in his entire career — before he beat somebody who had more than 1 victory who’d won most of his fights. That opponent was Billy Padden who was 2-0-1. Although Padden won 4 fights in his entire 13 fight career, he fought Jimmy Wilde 3 times. Wilde fought 2 more fights that month his 50th and 51st fights .... and both opponents were making their pro debut.

My own research shows that before the December 1912 contest between Wilde and Paddon, Billy's record was 23 wins, 6 losses and 2 draws. In his entire career Billy had 58 contests and not just the 13 you have found for him on boxrec. I think that your claim that Wilde's record was padded with nobodies is based upon the records you are seeing on boxrec, which are very incomplete for the period that Wilde was active.

Miles Templeton.

[gp.]

Good choice.... Calzaghe was 100 X better.

One of the reasons Boxing was outlawed in many areas in those days is because of fraudulent business practices.

With Wilde and a few others charlatans, opponents were often solicited off the street and given phony names. They were introduced to the crowd with phony records. They were never heard from again after padding the record of their only opponent. Wilde was probably the worst record padder in Fistic History… He engaged in many fraudulent fights...

Wilde was in his 49th fight — more fights than Calzaghe fought in his entire career — before he beat somebody who had more than 1 victory who’d won most of his fights. That opponent was Billy Padden who was 2-0-1. Although Padden won 4 fights in his entire 13 fight career, he fought Jimmy Wilde 3 times. Wilde fought 2 more fights that month his 50th and 51st fights .... and both opponents were making their pro debut.

Nuuuuurrrrrsssssseee!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[gp.]

Impossible for me to really judge Wilde accurately as I know so little about his contemporary opposition, so I’ll have to default to Calzaghe.

Surely you should default in these circumstances to "I don't know".

[Boxerbeetle]

Impossible for me to really judge Wilde accurately as I know so little about his contemporary opposition, so I’ll have to default to Calzaghe.

Surely you should default in these circumstances to "I don't know".

Never let a lack of knowledge get in the way of giving an opinion

[Kalan]

Good choice.... Calzaghe was 100 X better.

One of the reasons Boxing was outlawed in many areas in those days is because of fraudulent business practices.

With Wilde and a few others charlatans, opponents were often solicited off the street and given phony names. They were introduced to the crowd with phony records. They were never heard from again after padding the record of their only opponent. Wilde was probably the worst record padder in Fistic History… He engaged in many fraudulent fights...

Wilde was in his 49th fight — more fights than Calzaghe fought in his entire career — before he beat somebody who had more than 1 victory who’d won most of his fights. That opponent was Billy Padden who was 2-0-1. Although Padden won 4 fights in his entire 13 fight career, he fought Jimmy Wilde 3 times. Wilde fought 2 more fights that month his 50th and 51st fights .... and both opponents were making their pro debut.

My own research shows that before the December 1912 contest between Wilde and Paddon, Billy's record was 23 wins, 6 losses and 2 draws. In his entire career Billy had 58 contests and not just the 13 you have found for him on boxrec. I think that your claim that Wilde's record was padded with nobodies is based upon the records you are seeing on boxrec, which are very incomplete for the period that Wilde was active.

Miles Templeton.

His record was misrepresented as having 23 wins when he only had 4 wins in his whole career... In those days novices with no wins and making their 3rd start would be misrepresented when announced... "In this corner... from Corpus Christi Texas... with 23 wins, 18 by knockout and only 4 defeats... Jack Dillinger."

That's if they were in Renton WA... If they were in Corpus Christi TX he'd be from Maine... I'm sure the same thing went on in England... If the records were there and verifiable -- boxrec.com would be able to access them.

Bear in mind that was Wilde's 49th fight and the FIRST guy he beat who had more than 1 victory.

[prewarboxing]

Kalan.

I am going to ask you this directly.

Are you disputing the fact that I have found 23 wins for him prior to the Wilde contest? Your response seems to suggest that you do. You have stated that his record of 23 wins is a misrepresention and that he only ever won 4. You are therefore casting doubt upon what I have told you, and therefore upon my integrity. Let's have it then. Did he win 4 on his entire career or the 23 I say he did prior to the Wilde contest? Do you actually know what you are talking about or don't you? Back it up with facts.

Miles Templeton.

[elmersalsa]

Behind the great Bob Fitzsimmons, I don't see a greater British boxer than the great Jimmy Wilde.

Wales top 5 greatest boxers of all time:
1. Jimmy Wilde
2. Joe Calzaghe
3. Freddie Welsh
4. "Peerless" Jim Driscoll
5. Howard Winstone

[prewarboxing]

Good picks Elmer. These are the best five, without a doubt.

Miles Templeton.

[elmersalsa]

Good picks Elmer. These are the best five, without a doubt.

Miles Templeton.

Thanks. My favorite Welsh boxer was Howard Winstone. What a fighter! He just had the bad luck to run into the great Vicente Saldivar 3 times. Eventually, he became WBC World Featherweight Champion, though.

[prewarboxing]

I rate Buchanan as the best British stylist since the war, with Winstone second.

A very very good boxer was Howard.

[elmersalsa]

I rate Buchanan as the best British stylist since the war, with Winstone second.

A very very good boxer was Howard.

Oh, an excellent boxer!

[Kalan]

Good picks Elmer. These are the best five, without a doubt.

Miles Templeton.

Thanks. My favorite Welsh boxer was Howard Winstone. What a fighter! He just had the bad luck to run into the great Vicente Saldivar 3 times. Eventually, he became WBC World Featherweight Champion, though.

Saldivar handled Winstone with ease... And an aging Eder Jofre stopped Saldivar so easily it was ridiculous.... Winstone was missing most of several fingers from an industrial accident, so he had no power in his left hook... Slap city.

They called Joe Calzaghe "Slapsie" but he could hit... He was faster and a better boxer than Buchanan or Winstone... But his dad, who never boxed, was his chief trainer all his life... I watched how his dad wrapped Joe's hands on 24/7 and I thought... "Good grief.. it's a wonder this kid can fight." .... Calzaghe was all natural ability. He got nothing from the corner.

[prewarboxing]

An interesting point there about his wraps. What is 24/7? I don't understand! Do you think that Calzaghe achieved all he did despite his father/trainer rather than because of him? Your email suggests that this might be the case. I am interested.

[Counter-puncher]

Good picks Elmer. These are the best five, without a doubt.

Miles Templeton.

Thanks. My favorite Welsh boxer was Howard Winstone. What a fighter! He just had the bad luck to run into the great Vicente Saldivar 3 times. Eventually, he became WBC World Featherweight Champion, though.

Saldivar handled Winstone with ease...

The first two fights were very close, razor-thin decisions. There were people who said the second was a robbery, they are wrong in my opinion but it goes to show the kind of fights they were.

Once again you have done a brilliant job of proving you don't know what you are watching, congratulations.

To make you look dumb I don't even have to do anything

Just quote the dumb things you say

There's at least one in every post.

[Counter-puncher]

An interesting point there about his wraps. What is 24/7? I don't understand! Do you think that Calzaghe achieved all he did despite his father/trainer rather than because of him? Your email suggests that this might be the case. I am interested.

Calzaghe senior was a motivator-cheerleader rather than a technical coach, or someone with even a rounded sense of boxing tactics or strategy. It's fair to say Calzaghes achievements were in very large part due to natural gifts rather than anything he was taught

There is one small proviso, possibly, Calzaghe when he speaks of himself as a kid admits to being very shy and not a confident person naturally. It's possible that his dad was able to gain his confidence more than maybe someone not as aware of Calzaghes temperament, and the relationship worked because of it.

There are some fighters so gifted even the most awful training can't screw them up. Jack Mosley for example, I don't know what his work in the gym was like, as an ex fighter I'd imagine he had more knowledge than calzaghe sr at least, but Jack was a simply horrible cornerman. Unfocussed, lacking clarity and a lack of tactical or strategic thinking.

[SenorPipino]

BTW gentleman, today, May 15, marks the 126th anniversary of the birth of Jimmy Wilde, a fighter generally regarded as the greatest flyweight of all time.

[Kalan]

Thanks. My favorite Welsh boxer was Howard Winstone. What a fighter! He just had the bad luck to run into the great Vicente Saldivar 3 times. Eventually, he became WBC World Featherweight Champion, though.

Saldivar handled Winstone with ease...

The first two fights were very close, razor-thin decisions. There were people who said the second was a robbery, they are wrong in my opinion but it goes to show the kind of fights they were.

Once again you have done a brilliant job of proving you don't know what you are watching, congratulations.

To make you look dumb I don't even have to do anything

Just quote the dumb things you say

There's at least one in every post.

Why don't you just shut your stupid face you pathetic jackass... Regardless of what the scores were when he traveled over to Wales for the fights Saldivar dominated the action and punished Winstone.... When Saldivar got Winstone in North America with a neutral referee he knocked him down repeatedly and battered him into a stoppage...

BTW... When Vicente Saldivar fought the aging Eder Jofre.... who was a really good boxer.... he got boxed and battered and jabbed and hooked all over the ring and stopped in a few rounds... Saldivar was no sweat for the great Brazilian.

[Counter-puncher]

Saldivar handled Winstone with ease...

The first two fights were very close, razor-thin decisions. There were people who said the second was a robbery, they are wrong in my opinion but it goes to show the kind of fights they were.

Once again you have done a brilliant job of proving you don't know what you are watching, congratulations.

To make you look dumb I don't even have to do anything

Just quote the dumb things you say

There's at least one in every post.

Why don't you just shut your stupid face you pathetic jackass...

Oh dear

Kalan doesn't like it when his misunderstanding of fights gets pointed out

Note how he gets insulting. He simply doesn't understand what he is watching

[prewarboxing]

The first two fights were very close, razor-thin decisions. There were people who said the second was a robbery, they are wrong in my opinion but it goes to show the kind of fights they were.

Once again you have done a brilliant job of proving you don't know what you are watching, congratulations.

To make you look dumb I don't even have to do anything

Just quote the dumb things you say

There's at least one in every post.

Why don't you just shut your stupid face you pathetic jackass...

Oh dear

Kalan doesn't like it when his misunderstanding of fights gets pointed out

Note how he gets insulting. He simply doesn't understand what he is watching

Yes. There is no need for that sort of comment at all. Straightforward abuse.

Definition of troll on Wikipedia :

A person who sows discord on the internet by starting quarrels or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory, extraneous or off-topic messages in an online community with the intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.

Need I say more?

Miles Templeton.