Carlos Monzon V. Ray Leanard.
Carlos Monzon V. Ray Leanard.
Monzon is one of my all time favorite fighters. Ray Leanard was one of my least favorites but a true ATG. Who wins and why?
Re: Carlos Monzon V. Ray Leanard.
I believe that Monzon wins on late round stoppage. Very physical brawler/boxer with long lanky arms would wear down Ray down up until the stoppage. Leanard couldn't employ the same approach that he did Duran, or Hearns.
Re: Carlos Monzon V. Ray Leanard.
Proper uphill struggle for Ray this one, he would lose and would be lucky not to get stopped.
Re: Carlos Monzon V. Ray Leanard.
yeah dont think middle was his best weight and Monzon was a beast, would be like fighting a taller version of Duran and who needs that !
Re: Carlos Monzon V. Ray Leanard.
LOL, who needs that for sure! LMAO! Perfect comp, although Monzon was better LB for LB than Duran, IMHO. Perhaps in my sub-conscious, I wanted to see Ray get beat up rather than a great matchup! (?)littlepug wrote: ↑14 May 2018, 09:15yeah dont think middle was his best weight and Monzon was a beast, would be like fighting a taller version of Duran and who needs that !
Re: Carlos Monzon V. Ray Leanard.
I slightly favour Monzon. The thing is, if we match-up Hagler and Leonard as if their fight had never happened, I'd probably pick Hagler to win. But we know, what had actually happened, so there could have been a possibility, that Leonard could had done the same in the Monzon fight, what he had actually done in the Hagler fight. However, it was Hagler's last fight, he didn't come back, maybe he knew, that he didn't have it anymore, and maybe he had already been declining by the Leonard fight. This can ruin the value of the Hagler win as an argument for Leonard outboxing Monzon.
Leonard was a classy slick boxer, but he wasn't ideal. He could have outboxed every puncher, but he had lost the first fight against a boxer-puncher Duran. He wasn't able to outbox another boxer-puncher - Hearns. However, Hearns still differed from the likes of Duran, Hagler and Monzon. Yes, Leonard outclassed Duran in the immediate rematch, but there could have been a possibility, that Duran had boozing, partying and weight-cutting problems prior to the rematch.
Monzon was an elite level boxer-puncher, so if he could have had some troubles with finding the keys for elusive Leonard early, he could have finally found them somewhere near to the midpoint or a bit later. Leonard could have had a good start, but everything could have turned vice versa in the later rounds. I believe, Monzon was able to learn Leonard and then to pressure him, to find the openings and to trouble him with a big possibility of stopping Leonard.
Leonard was a classy slick boxer, but he wasn't ideal. He could have outboxed every puncher, but he had lost the first fight against a boxer-puncher Duran. He wasn't able to outbox another boxer-puncher - Hearns. However, Hearns still differed from the likes of Duran, Hagler and Monzon. Yes, Leonard outclassed Duran in the immediate rematch, but there could have been a possibility, that Duran had boozing, partying and weight-cutting problems prior to the rematch.
Monzon was an elite level boxer-puncher, so if he could have had some troubles with finding the keys for elusive Leonard early, he could have finally found them somewhere near to the midpoint or a bit later. Leonard could have had a good start, but everything could have turned vice versa in the later rounds. I believe, Monzon was able to learn Leonard and then to pressure him, to find the openings and to trouble him with a big possibility of stopping Leonard.
Re: Carlos Monzon V. Ray Leanard.
Monzon would win... He had an overpowering jab, but he lost a little something on the shot when his wife shot him in the arm a couple times... His endurance was unbelievable for his final 30 fights -- Leonard and Hagler both took more breaks... Especially when Hagler fought Duran he didn't seem to step it up to get Duran out... When Monzon fought Napoles he was all over him until he got him gone... He rained fury on him and didn't want him to survive.
In his Title shot at Benvenuti. Monzon kept coming... It was in Italy and he was a big underdog... He knew he had to get Benvenuti inside the distance... His first fight with Emile Griffith was brutal too... After that he dropped off just a little... When Leonard was 34 Terry Norris pounded the HELL out of him... Leonard was more of a showman and I don't believe he was as dedicated to his career as Monzon was... Monzon had a lot of vices, but put them to bed when he went to camp.
In his Title shot at Benvenuti. Monzon kept coming... It was in Italy and he was a big underdog... He knew he had to get Benvenuti inside the distance... His first fight with Emile Griffith was brutal too... After that he dropped off just a little... When Leonard was 34 Terry Norris pounded the HELL out of him... Leonard was more of a showman and I don't believe he was as dedicated to his career as Monzon was... Monzon had a lot of vices, but put them to bed when he went to camp.
Re: Carlos Monzon V. Ray Leanard.
This would be a bit one sided to my way of thinking....Monzon's uncanny ability to adapt to his opponents style...even if it gets switched up during a fight does not bode well for SRL, though SRL was very cerebral, Monzon took everything in stride, and I'm not seein' SRL making it to the last bell. Regardless of his clever ever changing potential for tactics. Monzon would have more than enough answers to whatever was brought by this great WW.
Monzon was the best MW of all time......better than Greb, Robinson, Hagler, GGG.....or any other MW you care to toss into the discussion. .SRL MAY have been the same to the WW division....and/but there lies the critical difference.
Monzon was the best MW of all time......better than Greb, Robinson, Hagler, GGG.....or any other MW you care to toss into the discussion. .SRL MAY have been the same to the WW division....and/but there lies the critical difference.
Re: Carlos Monzon V. Ray Leanard.
I agree and Hagler is a bit after him. Then Robinson, Greb, Hopkins. And GGG is definitely after those guys.
Re: Carlos Monzon V. Ray Leanard.
Monzon would have a tough time with James Toney... JT could close tight and hook the Hell out of tall guys like Michael Nunn... Toney also made a damned tough Cruiserweight and Heavyweight - which Monzon DIDN'T... Roy Jones would also make thing tough for Monzon.. Roy was not only fast... Roy was a big, powerful Middleweight who imposed his size on you... Neither man was ever beaten at Middleweight.
Leonard would never stand up to Errol Spence for the same reason Floyd Mayweather got battered when he tried to spar a green Spence to prep for Guerrero... Bigger, taller, stronger, faster, and more elusive than Hagler...Spence would be on top of Leonard with sharp right jabs and brutal right hooks (an impossible style for anyone with a low left hand)... As he's ripping Ray with those he's also coming with lefts from every conceivable angle... Spence doesn't let you grab like Leonard did to Hagler all night... Hagler couldn't throw Leonard off like he did to Hearns... Marv lacked the strength for it.
Re: Carlos Monzon V. Ray Leanard.
Monzon would crush Toney. Toney's cutsie head movement wouldn't help him against a very accurate puncher like Carlos. Please don't bring up...DOH!...Eubank...
Re: Carlos Monzon V. Ray Leanard.
I've honestly never gotten to see a lot of Monzon in action, but from what I've seen he was good at shutting down an opponent's speed advantage with his excellent timing so I think he'd be a handful for Leonard.
Re: Carlos Monzon V. Ray Leanard.
He could and was a brute when necessary. Also watch out for his elbows.
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elmersalsa
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Re: Carlos Monzon V. Ray Leanard.
King Carlos wins this one. Too big and too strong for Sugar Ray.
Re: Carlos Monzon V. Ray Leanard.
elmersalsa wrote: ↑14 May 2018, 15:37 King Carlos wins this one. Too big and too strong for Sugar Ray.
Re: Carlos Monzon V. Ray Leanard.
Toney didn't use "cutsie" head movement.. Cutsie head movement is for guys like Pazienza... Toney used an ATG masterful defense and ripping body shots to cut down lanky world champion's in several weight divisions... Monzon didn't try the big boys... Nobody from Middleweight to Heavyweight crushed Toney... Neither would Monzon.
Re: Carlos Monzon V. Ray Leanard.
Oh, and Oliver McCall got lucky against Lewis...
Re: Carlos Monzon V. Ray Leanard.
Michael Nunn got UNLUCKY against James Toney -- when he was the favorite to retain his pound-for-pound #1 status... Nunn was 36-0 when he was canned by Toney.... Pretty damned sweet power shots to rip down such a specimen.
That was the only stoppage loss of Nunn's career..
Nunn fought for a Light Heavyweight Title as well.. And so did Roy Jones.., Mike McCallum.., Reggie Johnson... Bernard Hopkins and other Middleweight Champions of Toney's very tough 160-pound 1990's era... I would note that Monzon and the boys from his era didn't do that.
That was the only stoppage loss of Nunn's career..
Nunn fought for a Light Heavyweight Title as well.. And so did Roy Jones.., Mike McCallum.., Reggie Johnson... Bernard Hopkins and other Middleweight Champions of Toney's very tough 160-pound 1990's era... I would note that Monzon and the boys from his era didn't do that.
Re: Carlos Monzon V. Ray Leanard.
I like this so much that I'm doubling up on my thumbs up!oogiebe wrote: ↑14 May 2018, 15:37elmersalsa wrote: ↑14 May 2018, 15:37 King Carlos wins this one. Too big and too strong for Sugar Ray.
Re: Carlos Monzon V. Ray Leanard.
Kalan wrote: ↑14 May 2018, 20:21 Michael Nunn got UNLUCKY against James Toney -- when he was the favorite to retain his pound-for-pound #1 status... Nunn was 36-0 when he was canned by Toney.... Pretty damned sweet power shots to rip down such a specimen.
That was the only stoppage loss of Nunn's career..
Nunn fought for a Light Heavyweight Title as well.. And so did Roy Jones.., Mike McCallum.., Reggie Johnson... Bernard Hopkins and other Middleweight Champions of Toney's very tough 160-pound 1990's era... I would note that Monzon and the boys from his era didn't do that.
Re: Carlos Monzon V. Ray Leanard.
I'm not a Leonard fan and think he's overated but he stops Spence....
Re: Carlos Monzon V. Ray Leanard.
Leonard didn't have anything to stop Spence with... Spence is too big, tough, and powerful... No Tommy Hearns chin is infecting this savage young thug.. Errol hasn't shown a single weakness.. Leonard showed us a ton of problems.
Leonard got knocked on his can by 3rd rate Welterweight Kevin Howard, -- who most fans had never heard of... Ray got riddled with combinations by the chinny-chin-chinned Terry Norris and battered to the canvas twice more... SRL also got beaten up by Lightweight Roberto Duran... And battered with right hands by Tommy Hearns until he was seeing spots in front of his meat hammered eye -- on a night when Hearns was the skinniest and most undernourished of his life -- looking like a fighting dog of Michael Vick's who he forgot all about when he went on vacation for 2 months...
Spence would climb into Leonard's left shoulder with crushing right hooks and ripping 45 left handers.. Like he did to Kell Brook, Leonard Bundu, and Lamont PEDerman when he beat the living fuk out of those boys.
Leonard got knocked on his can by 3rd rate Welterweight Kevin Howard, -- who most fans had never heard of... Ray got riddled with combinations by the chinny-chin-chinned Terry Norris and battered to the canvas twice more... SRL also got beaten up by Lightweight Roberto Duran... And battered with right hands by Tommy Hearns until he was seeing spots in front of his meat hammered eye -- on a night when Hearns was the skinniest and most undernourished of his life -- looking like a fighting dog of Michael Vick's who he forgot all about when he went on vacation for 2 months...
Spence would climb into Leonard's left shoulder with crushing right hooks and ripping 45 left handers.. Like he did to Kell Brook, Leonard Bundu, and Lamont PEDerman when he beat the living fuk out of those boys.
Re: Carlos Monzon V. Ray Leanard.
Spence lost at least 3 or 4 rounds to Kell Brook, and Kell Brook is no Sugar Ray Leonard.Kalan wrote: ↑15 May 2018, 00:27 Leonard didn't have anything to stop Spence with... Spence is too big, tough, and powerful... No Tommy Hearns chin is infecting this savage young thug.. Errol hasn't shown a single weakness.. Leonard showed us a ton of problems.
Leonard got knocked on his can by 3rd rate Welterweight Kevin Howard, -- who most fans had never heard of... Ray got riddled with combinations by the chinny-chin-chinned Terry Norris and battered to the canvas twice more... SRL also got beaten up by Lightweight Roberto Duran... And battered with right hands by Tommy Hearns until he was seeing spots in front of his meat hammered eye -- on a night when Hearns was the skinniest and most undernourished of his life -- looking like a fighting dog of Michael Vick's who he forgot all about when he went on vacation for 2 months...
Spence would climb into Leonard's left shoulder with crushing right hooks and ripping 45 left handers.. Like he did to Kell Brook, Leonard Bundu, and Lamont PEDerman when he beat the living fuk out of those boys.