Sulaiman confirms Canelo removed from WBC’s rankings for failing to sign up for drug testing

[apollo creed]

”Because he declined to enroll in the clean boxing program as stated in the rules,” Sulaiman said when asked why Canelo Alvarez was removed from the WBC’s rankings at middleweight. ” Not necessarily, if he enrolls then he is back in the ratings,” Sulaiman said when asked if Canelo won’t be eligible to fight for the WBC’s middleweight title in his next contest. from BN24 site

So Canelo is back on that carne asada recipe. This time even more juicy.

[DA1]

So he juices for a couple months straight. Goes on a month long detox, then he's back on the CBP and everything's good?

The WBC CBP sounds like a joke. Once you're suspended but refuse to enroll, you should be barred from a title shot even after you enroll. Say, up to 10 months after he enrolls again he is ineligible for a ranking/TS. That would at least make some sense.

Otherwise who the f-ck cares about being ranked when they're suspended anyways?

[Enlightened-One]

This is kind of meaningless, because the WBC will inevitably reintroduce Canelo in their rankings when K2 and GBP have finalised the contract negotiations for the rematch, which is being discussed this week.

GBP have stated that Canelo will undergo immediate drug testing when the GGG fight has been signed.

[tiny_acres]

This is kind of meaningless, because the WBC will inevitably reintroduce Canelo in their rankings when K2 and GBP have finalised the contract negotiations for the rematch, which is being discussed this week.

GBP have stated that Canelo will undergo immediate drug testing when the GGG fight has been signed.

EO you are an intelligent person. Can you not agree that just the look of this looks fishy?

[Enlightened-One]

This is kind of meaningless, because the WBC will inevitably reintroduce Canelo in their rankings when K2 and GBP have finalised the contract negotiations for the rematch, which is being discussed this week.

GBP have stated that Canelo will undergo immediate drug testing when the GGG fight has been signed.

EO you are an intelligent person. Can you not agree that just the look of this looks fishy?

I am aware that Canelo has a very strained relationship with the WBC and has done so for several years. He won't allow them to dish out their orders.

The fact he won't dance to Sulaiman's tune is not unusual, if you have followed Canelo's career as closely as I have. And a big part of me understands the reason why he has a strained relationship with the WBC.

In terms of Canelo potentially being a drug cheat, I have had my suspicions for quite some time, but I can't condemn him and accuse him of intentionally consuming a banned substance, because the evidence is inconclusive.

The only reason why Canelo received a ban, is because the NSAC's rules don't care about the root cause of the positive drug test result.

However, the NSAC have already stated that they don't believe he intentionally consumed PED's, but they had to suspend him regardless, because of their rules.

I think I've partially given you the answer you were seeking, but perhaps I don't quite see things like you do, because I need compelling evidence before I condemn fighters.

I don't agree with the "there's no smoke without a fire" justice system, regardless of my suspicions.

[Nightmare Roy]

$$$$$$$$$$$$$he will be back$$$$$$$$$$$

[DA1]

I am aware that Canelo has a very strained relationship with the WBC and has done so for several years. He won't allow them to dish out their orders.

The fact he won't dance to Sulaiman's tune is not unusual, if you have followed Canelo's career as closely as I have. And a big part of me understands the reason why he has a strained relationship with the WBC.

In terms of Canelo potentially being a drug cheat, I have had my suspicions for quite some time, but I can't condemn him and accuse him of intentionally consuming a banned substance, because the evidence is inconclusive.

The only reason why Canelo received a ban, is because the NSAC's rules don't care about the root cause of the positive drug test result.

However, the NSAC have already stated that they don't believe he intentionally consumed PED's, but they had to suspend him regardless, because of their rules.

I think I've partially given you the answer you were seeking, but perhaps I don't quite see things like you do, because I need compelling evidence before I condemn fighters.

I don't agree with the "there's no smoke without a fire" justice system, regardless of my suspicions.

The theory is: the reason why Canelo dropped the WBC belt couple years ago was BECAUSE he wanted to get off the CBP program. Note he wasn't fighting for the WBA title either. Only the WBO, which has no VADA testing at all.

When the WBC wanted him to fight Golovkin, he figured he has no chance with VADA. The "aging" and waiting Golovkin was a bonus. That also explains why he had such a dramatic physique change by the time he fought GGG.

[Enlightened-One]

I am aware that Canelo has a very strained relationship with the WBC and has done so for several years. He won't allow them to dish out their orders.

The fact he won't dance to Sulaiman's tune is not unusual, if you have followed Canelo's career as closely as I have. And a big part of me understands the reason why he has a strained relationship with the WBC.

In terms of Canelo potentially being a drug cheat, I have had my suspicions for quite some time, but I can't condemn him and accuse him of intentionally consuming a banned substance, because the evidence is inconclusive.

The only reason why Canelo received a ban, is because the NSAC's rules don't care about the root cause of the positive drug test result.

However, the NSAC have already stated that they don't believe he intentionally consumed PED's, but they had to suspend him regardless, because of their rules.

I think I've partially given you the answer you were seeking, but perhaps I don't quite see things like you do, because I need compelling evidence before I condemn fighters.

I don't agree with the "there's no smoke without a fire" justice system, regardless of my suspicions.

The theory is: the reason why Canelo dropped the WBC belt couple years ago was BECAUSE he wanted to get off the CBP program. Note he wasn't fighting for the WBA title either. Only the WBO, which has no VADA testing at all.

When the WBC wanted him to fight Golovkin, he figured he has no chance with VADA. The "aging" and waiting Golovkin was a bonus. That also explains why he had such a dramatic physique change by the time he fought GGG.

I don't really “do” theories that aren't substantiated by any facts.

I have previously submitted several posts explaining the reason why Canelo has a strained relationship with the WBC that are factually-accurate.

The version of events I detailed was corroborated by all parties, which means my claims can't be refuted.

If you don't believe the explanation I've previously supplied, then perhaps you should research the matter for yourself? You also need to check the timelines for the events, because they make for interesting reading.

People somehow like to believe fictional and derogatory claims about unpopular or villainous fighters, even if there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever to support these creatively imagined conspiracy theories.

Ultimately though, you're going to inevitably believe whatever you want to, regardless as to whether it's true or not.

[Boxerbeetle]

I am aware that Canelo has a very strained relationship with the WBC and has done so for several years. He won't allow them to dish out their orders.

The fact he won't dance to Sulaiman's tune is not unusual, if you have followed Canelo's career as closely as I have. And a big part of me understands the reason why he has a strained relationship with the WBC.

In terms of Canelo potentially being a drug cheat, I have had my suspicions for quite some time, but I can't condemn him and accuse him of intentionally consuming a banned substance, because the evidence is inconclusive.

The only reason why Canelo received a ban, is because the NSAC's rules don't care about the root cause of the positive drug test result.

However, the NSAC have already stated that they don't believe he intentionally consumed PED's, but they had to suspend him regardless, because of their rules.

I think I've partially given you the answer you were seeking, but perhaps I don't quite see things like you do, because I need compelling evidence before I condemn fighters.

I don't agree with the "there's no smoke without a fire" justice system, regardless of my suspicions.

The theory is: the reason why Canelo dropped the WBC belt couple years ago was BECAUSE he wanted to get off the CBP program. Note he wasn't fighting for the WBA title either. Only the WBO, which has no VADA testing at all.

When the WBC wanted him to fight Golovkin, he figured he has no chance with VADA. The "aging" and waiting Golovkin was a bonus. That also explains why he had such a dramatic physique change by the time he fought GGG.

I don't really “do” theories that aren't substantiated by any facts.

I have previously submitted several posts explaining the reason why Canelo has a strained relationship with the WBC that are factually-accurate.

The version of events I detailed was corroborated by all parties, which means my claims can't be refuted.

If you don't believe the explanation I've previously supplied, then perhaps you should research the matter for yourself? You also need to check the timelines for the events, because they make for interesting reading.

People somehow like to believe fictional and derogatory claims about unpopular or villainous fighters, even if there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever to support these creatively imagined conspiracy theories.

Ultimately though, you're going to inevitably believe whatever you want to, regardless as to whether it's true or not.

So you never believe anything other than the published facts? Did you go around telling everyone that Lance Armstrong couldn’t have been a PED cheat too?

[Enlightened-One]

So you never believe anything other than the published facts?

Some people are a bunch of lazy fúckíng bāstārds! They can’t be ārsĕd to perform any fact-checking, since it’s far easier to “read between the lines” without even making the effort to look at the actual fúckíng “lines”!

Here’s what DA1 previously posted:

The theory is: the reason why Canelo dropped the WBC belt couple years ago was BECAUSE he wanted to get off the CBP program.

Here are the actual fúckíng timelines:

• 11/11/2015 - WBC orders the winner of Cotto-Canelo to defend their title against GGG
• 22/01/2016 - Canelo and Golden Boy are legally obliged to attend court for the All-Star Boxing lawsuit, with the date of the hearing scheduled to commence from the 23/05/16 onwards
• 06/05/2016 - WBC announce the CBP
• 07/05/2016 - Canelo successfully defends his WBC middleweight title by scoring a KO victory over Amir Khan
• 10/05/2016 - WBC formally orders a 15-day deadline for GBP & K2 to come to an agreement for a Canelo-GGG bout, with a purse bid scheduled for the 24/05/16, for a fight to be held by the 17/09/16
• 19/05/2016 - Canelo vacates WBC middleweight title and GGG is formally announced as the new champion
• 23/05/2016 - Canelo and Golden Boy were physically in Florida attending court addressing the All Star Boxing lawsuit
• 13/06/2016 - All-Star Boxing Awarded $8.5m in damages from Canelo
• 10/09/2016 - GGG successfully defends his WBC middleweight title for the very first time by stopping Kell Brook within five rounds
• 01/10/2016 - The CBP testing starts, with only 19 fighters tested by VADA from this date until the end of the 2016 calendar year
• 09/10/2016 - Deadline for fighters to register for the CBP expires
• 12/10/2016 - WBC purges boxers from rankings who haven't enrolled

If the chronological sequence of events doesn’t persuade you about the fact that DA1 is talking utter fúckíng bðllðcks, then you’re a fúckíng imbecile!

Did you go around telling everyone that Lance Armstrong couldn’t have been a PED cheat too?

It’s abundantly clear to me that you’re a fúckíng imbecile! Read the previous posts I’ve submitted to this thread and then apologise for the fúckíng absurd nature of that moronic question! FFS!

[DA1]

If the chronological sequence of events doesn’t persuade you about the fact that DA1 is talking utter fúckíng bðllðcks, then you’re a fúckíng imbecile!

I said its a theory. In other words, I didn't come up with it, or else I'd have just said it straightforward. Its being repeated on youtube comments and all over the interwebs. Makes Canelo look worse than he is. Then again, it really doesn't change a thing. If CBP wasn't being enforced then he could still be eating that homegrown Mexican meat! Why wouldn't he, you'd be stupid not to and stay clean when its not even being enforced. This guy's legacy is tainted now, just like his dinner. Every move he makes will be questioned.

• 11/11/2015 - WBC orders the winner of Cotto-Canelo to defend their title against GGG
• 22/01/2016 - Canelo and Golden Boy are legally obliged to attend court for the All-Star Boxing lawsuit, with the date of the hearing scheduled to commence from the 23/05/16 onwards
• 06/05/2016 - WBC announce the CBP
• 07/05/2016 - Canelo successfully defends his WBC middleweight title by scoring a KO victory over Amir Khan
• 10/05/2016 - WBC formally orders a 15-day deadline for GBP & K2 to come to an agreement for a Canelo-GGG bout, with a purse bid scheduled for the 24/05/16, for a fight to be held by the 17/09/16
• 19/05/2016 - Canelo vacates WBC middleweight title and GGG is formally announced as the new champion
• 23/05/2016 - Canelo and Golden Boy were physically in Florida attending court addressing the All Star Boxing lawsuit
• 13/06/2018 - All-Star Boxing Awarded $8.5m in damages from Canelo
• 10/09/2018 - GGG successfully defends his WBC middleweight title for the very first time by stopping Kell Brook within five rounds
• 01/10/2016 - The CBP testing starts, with only 19 fighters tested by VADA from this date until the end of the 2016 calendar year
• 09/10/2016 - Deadline for fighters to register for the CBP expires
• 12/10/2016 - WBC purges boxers from rankings who haven't enrolled

And your timeline looks shoddy as hell. How does it go from 2016 to 2018 to back to 2016?

So Canelo dropped the belt on May 19, 2016
Then CBP starts on October 1, 2016.

Timeline adds up. He must have dropped the WBC belt to evade VADA.

[Boxerbeetle]

So you never believe anything other than the published facts?

Some people are a bunch of lazy fúckíng bāstārds! They can’t be ārsĕd to perform any fact-checking, since it’s far easier to “read between the lines” without even making the effort to look at the actual fúckíng “lines”!

Here’s what DA1 previously posted:

The theory is: the reason why Canelo dropped the WBC belt couple years ago was BECAUSE he wanted to get off the CBP program.

Here are the actual fúckíng timelines:

• 11/11/2015 - WBC orders the winner of Cotto-Canelo to defend their title against GGG
• 22/01/2016 - Canelo and Golden Boy are legally obliged to attend court for the All-Star Boxing lawsuit, with the date of the hearing scheduled to commence from the 23/05/16 onwards
• 06/05/2016 - WBC announce the CBP
• 07/05/2016 - Canelo successfully defends his WBC middleweight title by scoring a KO victory over Amir Khan
• 10/05/2016 - WBC formally orders a 15-day deadline for GBP & K2 to come to an agreement for a Canelo-GGG bout, with a purse bid scheduled for the 24/05/16, for a fight to be held by the 17/09/16
• 19/05/2016 - Canelo vacates WBC middleweight title and GGG is formally announced as the new champion
• 23/05/2016 - Canelo and Golden Boy were physically in Florida attending court addressing the All Star Boxing lawsuit
• 13/06/2018 - All-Star Boxing Awarded $8.5m in damages from Canelo
• 10/09/2018 - GGG successfully defends his WBC middleweight title for the very first time by stopping Kell Brook within five rounds
• 01/10/2016 - The CBP testing starts, with only 19 fighters tested by VADA from this date until the end of the 2016 calendar year
• 09/10/2016 - Deadline for fighters to register for the CBP expires
• 12/10/2016 - WBC purges boxers from rankings who haven't enrolled

If the chronological sequence of events doesn’t persuade you about the fact that DA1 is talking utter fúckíng bðllðcks, then you’re a fúckíng imbecile!

Did you go around telling everyone that Lance Armstrong couldn’t have been a PED cheat too?

It’s abundantly clear to me that you’re a fúckíng imbecile! Read the previous posts I’ve submitted to this thread and then apologise for the fúckíng absurd nature of that moronic question! FFS!

Your chronological timeline is incredibly poorly constructed - your dates don’t make sense. You clearly can’t even be bothered to complete a simple sense-check of what you’ve written, you have no credibility whatsoever.

[Enlightened-One]

If the chronological sequence of events doesn’t persuade you about the fact that DA1 is talking utter fúckíng bðllðcks, then you’re a fúckíng imbecile!

I said its a theory. In other words, I didn't come up with it, or else I'd have just said it straightforward. Its being repeated on youtube comments and all over the interwebs. Makes Canelo look worse than he is. Then again, it really doesn't change a thing. If CBP wasn't being enforced then he could still be eating that homegrown Mexican meat! Why wouldn't he, you'd be stupid not to and stay clean when its not even being enforced. This guy's legacy is tainted now, just like his dinner. Every move he makes will be questioned.


And your timeline looks shoddy as hell. How does it go from 2016 to 2018 to back to 2016?

Why quote a theory that you’ve not researched? You shouldn’t use “theories” that cannot possibly be true as your counter-argument. Perform some research and understand the subject matter instead.

In terms of the 2018 years, it’s a typo, all the dates in my previous post relate to 2016.

You can verify them if you want, but they’re all correct.

[Enlightened-One]

Your chronological timeline is incredibly poorly constructed - your dates don’t make sense. You clearly can’t even be bothered to complete a simple sense-check of what you’ve written, you have no credibility whatsoever.

Typos happen, but I've quoted fact that you can't refute.

I’ve embarrassed you and you’re using diversionary tactics to avoid admitting to being a fúckíng imbecile!

[DA1]

Why quote a theory that you’ve not researched? You shouldn’t use “theories” that cannot possibly be true as your counter-argument. Perform some research and understand the subject matter instead.

In terms of the 2018 years, it’s a typo, all the dates in my previous post relate to 2016.

You can verify them if you want, but they’re all correct.

And it still adds up.
He dropped the belt in May. Then CBP starts in October.

He dropped the belts to evade VADA CBP. According to your own timeline.

So that theory was indeed on to something.

[Enlightened-One]

Why quote a theory that you’ve not researched? You shouldn’t use “theories” that cannot possibly be true as your counter-argument. Perform some research and understand the subject matter instead.

In terms of the 2018 years, it’s a typo, all the dates in my previous post relate to 2016.

You can verify them if you want, but they’re all correct.

And it still adds up.
He dropped the belt in May. Then CBP starts in October.

He dropped the belts to evade VADA CBP. According to your own timeline.

So that theory was on to something.

OMG! I really can't help you, can I? Read the dates for the sequence of events and the WBC's deadlines.

If Canelo had abided by the WBC's deadlines for the GGG bout, he would have faced Golovkin before the testing of the CBP had even started. If GGG wasn't his mandatory, he could have performed a voluntary defence without being tested, before the CBP had even begun.

The WBC had imposed an unrealistic deadline on Canelo to agree to the GGG bout, which was why he had to vacate this title. Sulaiman knew full well that Canelo was preparing to face Amir Khan and had to attend court, but they set their dates regardless.

Your counter argument is based on a conspiracy theory that is incompatible with the events that occurred in the real-world!

Learn the subject matter – don’t force others to educate you!

[DA1]

OMG! I really can't help you, can I? Read the dates for the sequence of events and the WBC's deadlines.

If Canelo had abided by the WBC's deadlines for the GGG bout, he would have faced Golovkin before the testing of the CBP had even started. If GGG wasn't his mandatory, he could have performed a voluntary defence without being tested, before the CBP had even begun.

The WBC also imposed an unrealistic deadline on Canelo to agree to the GGG bout, which was why he had to vacate this title.

Canelo knew he has no shot without Mexican meat, my friend.

WBC title fights still used VADA, just not 365/year testing which is the CBP.

He needed to get off VADA!! No point in fighting GGG if the WBC mandates VADA testing, which started in October 2015.

https://www.badlefthook.com/2015/8/24/9 ... sse-postol

The WBO or IBF was the only one's that didn't! That's why he fought for the WBO, and not the WBA/WBC.

[Enlightened-One]

And it still adds up.
He dropped the belt in May. Then CBP starts in October.

He dropped the belts to evade VADA CBP. According to your own timeline.

So that theory was on to something.

OMG! I really can't help you, can I? Read the dates for the sequence of events and the WBC's deadlines.

If Canelo had abided by the WBC's deadlines for the GGG bout, he would have faced Golovkin before the testing of the CBP had even started. If GGG wasn't his mandatory, he could have performed a voluntary defence without being tested, before the CBP had even begun.

The WBC also imposed an unrealistic deadline on Canelo to agree to the GGG bout, which was why he had to vacate this title.

Canelo knew he has no shot without Mexican meat, my friend.

WBC title fights still used VADA, just not 365/year testing which is the CBP.

He needed to get off VADA!! No point in fighting GGG if the WBC mandates VADA testing. Which started in October 2015.

https://www.badlefthook.com/2015/8/24/9 ... sse-postol

The WBO or IBF was the only one's that didn't!

You're moving the topic of the discussion, because you can't admit you were wrong about the original point, so now you want to debate something else instead.

Anyway, here's the actual first CBP report published by the WBC:
This process began effectively on October the 1st 2016. All boxers rated in the top 15 who did not enroll into the CBP program were removed from the WBC rankings...

What might have occurred before that date would have been entirely volunatory.

Please learn the subject matter.

[Datsue]

EO you are an intelligent person. Can you not agree that just the look of this looks fishy?

Intelligent or not, he's a complete disingenuous arsehole who cloaks his own opinions in a veneer of bullshit while pretending that he's in fact impartial.

Canelo could be videoed with a needle hanging out of his arse & Fergus/Rover would respond with "He has a prescription for antihistamines & it's a well-known fact that redheads suffer more from hayfever [insert meaningless tangential link apparently "justifying" same here]. I can't see why you'd suspect him of illegal drug use. He has said he's not guilty & on that basis I prefer to traffic in facts".

Yet watch him when it's someone he doesn't have a gaping wide-on for in the dock...!

It's like listening to one of those right-wing media types who thinks that saying the word "fact" can simply make inconvenient things that they don't like go away, & that if they keep thrashing things out in a long-winded convoluted fashion you'll lose sight of consensus reality & accept their Byzantine version of events that—despite their constant appeals to some sort of "objectivity"—is only supported by their opinions & their bullshit rhetoric.

[Enlightened-One]

EO you are an intelligent person. Can you not agree that just the look of this looks fishy?

Intelligent or not, he's a complete disingenuous arsehole who cloaks his own opinions in a veneer of bullshit while pretending that he's in fact impartial.

Canelo could be videoed with a needle hanging out of his arse & Fergus/Rover would respond with "He has a prescription for antihistamines & it's a well-known fact that redheads suffer more from hayfever [insert meaningless tangential link apparently "justifying" same here]. I can't see why you'd suspect him of illegal drug use. He has said he's not guilty & on that basis I prefer to traffic in facts".

Yet watch him when it's someone he doesn't have a gaping wide-on for in the dock...!

It's like listening to one of those right-wing media types who thinks that saying the word "fact" can simply make inconvenient things that they don't like go away, & that if they keep thrashing things out in a long-winded convoluted fashion you'll lose sight of consensus reality & accept their Byzantine version of events that—despite their constant appeals to some sort of "objectivity"—is only supported by their opinions & their bullshit rhetoric.

Read my comments in this thread, because you're proposing I hold an opinion that I have never articulated. You might be surprised about what I've stated if you made the effort to read what I've written.

You can't attempt to take the moral high ground if you don't read my words, whilst persistently lying.

[lazboy]

EO you are an intelligent person. Can you not agree that just the look of this looks fishy?

Intelligent or not, he's a complete disingenuous arsehole who cloaks his own opinions in a veneer of bullshit while pretending that he's in fact impartial.

Canelo could be videoed with a needle hanging out of his arse & Fergus/Rover would respond with "He has a prescription for antihistamines & it's a well-known fact that redheads suffer more from hayfever [insert meaningless tangential link apparently "justifying" same here]. I can't see why you'd suspect him of illegal drug use. He has said he's not guilty & on that basis I prefer to traffic in facts".

Yet watch him when it's someone he doesn't have a gaping wide-on for in the dock...!

It's like listening to one of those right-wing media types who thinks that saying the word "fact" can simply make inconvenient things that they don't like go away, & that if they keep thrashing things out in a long-winded convoluted fashion you'll lose sight of consensus reality & accept their Byzantine version of events that—despite their constant appeals to some sort of "objectivity"—is only supported by their opinions & their bullshit rhetoric.

Spot on! Well said. This here needs to be pinned. As a public service announcement so people don’t repeat the same song and dance (I’m guilty too) because he/she/it/Fergus/rover/EO Loves the attention!

[tiny_acres]

EO you are an intelligent person. Can you not agree that just the look of this looks fishy?

Intelligent or not, he's a complete disingenuous arsehole who cloaks his own opinions in a veneer of bullshit while pretending that he's in fact impartial.

Canelo could be videoed with a needle hanging out of his arse & Fergus/Rover would respond with "He has a prescription for antihistamines & it's a well-known fact that redheads suffer more from hayfever [insert meaningless tangential link apparently "justifying" same here]. I can't see why you'd suspect him of illegal drug use. He has said he's not guilty & on that basis I prefer to traffic in facts".

Yet watch him when it's someone he doesn't have a gaping wide-on for in the dock...!

It's like listening to one of those right-wing media types who thinks that saying the word "fact" can simply make inconvenient things that they don't like go away, & that if they keep thrashing things out in a long-winded convoluted fashion you'll lose sight of consensus reality & accept their Byzantine version of events that—despite their constant appeals to some sort of "objectivity"—is only supported by their opinions & their bullshit rhetoric.

Spot on! Well said. This here needs to be pinned. As a public service announcement so people don’t repeat the same song and dance (I’m guilty too) because he/she/it/Fergus/rover/EO Loves the attention!

[Counter-puncher]

EO you are an intelligent person. Can you not agree that just the look of this looks fishy?

Intelligent or not,

uh, blatantly 'not'. committing a series of category errors, an inability to separate a fact from its context, an inability to assess any argument that has been advanced in even slight contrast to his own with any objectivity, I could probably name another 6 or 7 indicators of 'intelligence' as commonly understood, that EO signally lacks.

[Enlightened-One]

People can't undermine facts, so they resort to insults.

[Counter-puncher]

its is spelled 'rebuttals', not rebuttles.