ATG p4p lomachenko

[man]

is he top ten material?

[gilgamesh]

Quite possibly. I've never seen better footwork from anybody...ever.

He'd surely already rank as one of the very best Amateurs of all time.

[jamamb]

nope, not even close to top 10 p4p ever

[SenorPipino]

Longevity. The test of time. That determines an ATG.

Even the question of potential ATG status should never be raised when a fighter only has 13 pro bouts.

[man]

Longevity. The test of time. That determines an ATG.

Even the question of potential ATG status should never be raised when a fighter only has 13 pro bouts.

so when would you ask for potential
ATG status if not before he achieved it?

[gilgamesh]

nope, not even close to top 10 p4p ever

Not yet, the question was "Will he get there"...he might.

That being said, I don't even know if there's really enough out there for him to achieve it.

Beating Mikey Garcia is the biggest possible achievement I can see out there for him, beyond that he'd be facing people that are simply TOO BIG for him I think.

To truly be Top 10 all time he'd have to take his show successfully all the way up to Welterweight, and be able to beat those guys too. I just can't see it...but let's never say never.

[SenorPipino]

Longevity. The test of time. That determines an ATG.

Even the question of potential ATG status should never be raised when a fighter only has 13 pro bouts.

so when would you ask for potential
ATG status if not before he achieved it?

Like I said, man. I wouldn't even raise the question.

Just 13 fights is practically the neophyte level, even with an extensive amateur background.

Wht would anyone even suggest future ATG status when only 13 bouts are in the record, and that includes 1 defeat.

It borders on ludicrous. Examine Lomachenko's potential status some years down the line when he has put quite a few more bouts on his resume.

[jamamb]

tbf his 12 fights are almost all title fights, its nothing the the first 13 for most

in reality a lot of guys get to 20 or more before they fight at the level he was pretty much right away

but still way short of elite atg stuff

[jamesmcdonnell]

i suspect he will have a short but stellar career.

[jamesmcdonnell]

nope, not even close to top 10 p4p ever

Not yet, the question was "Will he get there"...he might.

That being said, I don't even know if there's really enough out there for him to achieve it.

Beating Mikey Garcia is the biggest possible achievement I can see out there for him, beyond that he'd be facing people that are simply TOO BIG for him I think.

To truly be Top 10 all time he'd have to take his show successfully all the way up to Welterweight, and be able to beat those guys too. I just can't see it...but let's never say never.

i dont agree, he could stop moving up and just dominate for years.

[greg]

..no doubt an excellent start..2-time Olympic champ has the potential..I guess we can revisit this matter in the next 3-5 years..

[oogiebe]

Way too early for me to call this.

[man]

tbf his 12 fights are almost all title fights, its nothing the the first 13 for most

in reality a lot of guys get to 20 or more before they fight at the level he was pretty much right away

[man]

i suspect he will have a short but stellar career.

interesting point of view.

[man]

Way too early for me to call this.

sure. but he has proven he is different.
i cannot recall seeing a boxer with such
skill so early on in his career against such
opposition. in my view unprecedented,
which to me justifies asking the question.

[oogiebe]

Way too early for me to call this.

sure. but he has proven he is different.
i cannot recall seeing a boxer with such
skill so early on in his career against such
opposition. in my view unprecedented,
which to me justifies asking the question.

That's fine. I just need to see the whole package of a career before I can say, definitively, that he's p4p the best. A lot can happen, and we've all seen greats become so-so, or just good. IF he retires today, yes...amongst the best I ever saw.

[gilgamesh]

nope, not even close to top 10 p4p ever

Not yet, the question was "Will he get there"...he might.

That being said, I don't even know if there's really enough out there for him to achieve it.

Beating Mikey Garcia is the biggest possible achievement I can see out there for him, beyond that he'd be facing people that are simply TOO BIG for him I think.

To truly be Top 10 all time he'd have to take his show successfully all the way up to Welterweight, and be able to beat those guys too. I just can't see it...but let's never say never.

i dont agree, he could stop moving up and just dominate for years.

Yeah, but you gotta beat Great fighters to BE an All Time Great fighter.

Not a whole lot of depth at 135 at the moment. Unless all of the stars from 126 and 130 move up.

Plus a lot of what he does is speed and reflexes driven type skills...not sure how long he'd be able to keep performing at the level he's currently at.

[Mexi-Box]

His resume is pretty weak for that at the moment. It's better than Crawford's, but he doesn't have many credible wins. His best win is now Linares, and really, Linares is worthless in a p4p-ATG sense.

1. Linares
2. GRJ
3. Rigondeaux
4. Walters
5. Sosa
6. Marriaga
7. Martinez

How I'd probably rate Lomachenko's best wins so far. Plus, if he meets up Mikey, I think he loses. If he beats Mikey, though, he'd shoot up. Mikey is his p4p contemporary.

[oogiebe]

His resume is pretty weak for that at the moment. It's better than Crawford's, but he doesn't have many credible wins. His best win is now Linares, and really, Linares is worthless in a p4p-ATG sense.

1. Linares
2. GRJ
3. Rigondeaux
4. Walters
5. Sosa
6. Marriaga
7. Martinez

How I'd probably rate Lomachenko's best wins so far. Plus, if he meets up Mikey, I think he loses. If he beats Mikey, though, he'd shoot up. Mikey is his p4p contemporary.

He gets passed Garcia and we have a discussion.

[Mexi-Box]

Not yet, the question was "Will he get there"...he might.

That being said, I don't even know if there's really enough out there for him to achieve it.

Beating Mikey Garcia is the biggest possible achievement I can see out there for him, beyond that he'd be facing people that are simply TOO BIG for him I think.

To truly be Top 10 all time he'd have to take his show successfully all the way up to Welterweight, and be able to beat those guys too. I just can't see it...but let's never say never.

i dont agree, he could stop moving up and just dominate for years.

Yeah, but you gotta beat Great fighters to BE an All Time Great fighter.

Not a whole lot of depth at 135 at the moment. Unless all of the stars from 126 and 130 move up.

Plus a lot of what he does is speed and reflexes driven type skills...not sure how long he'd be able to keep performing at the level he's currently at.

Mikey is pretty much his key at 135 lbs.

The rest of the talent is back at 130 lbs. at the moment.

[oogiebe]

Mikey is pretty much his key at 135 lbs.

The rest of the talent is back at 130 lbs. at the moment.

Yup! And he ain't moving up, at least I hope not.

[Cent0089]

Garcia, Berchelt and Davis are still here. Deal with them, defeat them and maybe he will be amongst best boxers in history. Linares, Walters, Rigondeaux, Russell, they are very strong victories, but he need to do more

[boxing_rocks]

Loma is better than Mayweather.

[oogiebe]

Loma is better than Mayweather.

WOW!!! Not a Mayweather fan, but that's a very bold statement. Maybe with wins over Garcia and clean out the division, then we can talk about that comp, IMNSHO

[gilgamesh]

i dont agree, he could stop moving up and just dominate for years.

Yeah, but you gotta beat Great fighters to BE an All Time Great fighter.

Not a whole lot of depth at 135 at the moment. Unless all of the stars from 126 and 130 move up.

Plus a lot of what he does is speed and reflexes driven type skills...not sure how long he'd be able to keep performing at the level he's currently at.

Mikey is pretty much his key at 135 lbs.

The rest of the talent is back at 130 lbs. at the moment.

Yeah I agree