Canelo v Saunders in September

[Taansend]

Here's a snippet from the link above:

"I asked Eric Gomez, the president of Golden Boy what the testing deal is for this Saturday clash.

“VADA for Lemieux,” Gomez said. “The UK Anti-Doping organization for Saunders.” That is the outfit which employs Blood Collection Offiers to get samples, which need to comply with the International Standards for Testing and Investigatons.

From what I know, with my not unlimited knowledge of this whole specialized area, VADA..

http://vada-testing.org

…is more severe, more strict, than the UKAD…

https://www.ukad.org.uk/our-organisatio ... g-control/

…panel is.

For instance, VADA does “IRMS” on every collection to identify synthetic testosterone use and national anti doping organizations don’t do that routinely. IRMS is a test to pick up TRT/synthetic testosterone use, even if an athlete has a normal testosterone to epitestosterone ratio. It is costly but super effective.

Saunders could also have chosen to do the VADA testing, Gomez told me, but opted not to.
As always, this issue needs to be pushed by media, and fans who feel that competition should be clean need to follow these stories, and ask that strict testing be the norm for fighters, who could use their illegal edge to a deadly level."

Again, a few years ago you've got a lazy inactive champion openly swerving GGG and struggling to fill halls fighting nobodies and looking nothing particularly special, then suddenly he's changed to a camp which has known history of drug cheats and he's fit as a butcher's dog and looking like a serious threat to the big two, all the while swerving VADA testing.

Proper training and nutrition. Fair enough,

I can't see where the above proved he's juicing

It doesn't prove it. It implies that it is a possibility.

But you wrote he was CLEARLY ON THE GEAR. Now you're saying it's a possibility

[Boxerbeetle]

Toby has a background in top level natural bodybuilding, mate, he's pretty sharp on judging fighters appearance and the whole doping issue. Hell call suspicious appearance when he sees it.

I know he does, mate. I've read a lot of his posts before. That doesn't mean I'm not allowed to treat his (edit: Saunders that is) resurrection with caution. I'm obviously not the only one, am I?

I can see where you would see to be led to think that and of course there is a possibility that he has taken something but I feel it is just good nutrition, good training and some long needed dedication. He does not look like he has gained any muscle (and if he had, there would probably be big issues making weight as the tissue would weigh more).

To me, he just looks like he has bothered to diet better and trained a bit harder. I see it all the time with tons of guys, even myself tbh

What’s your take on Canelo, out of interest? Any chance he’s actually innocent, or is he as guilty as he appears?

[Oiky]

Canelo 100% guilty imo

[Coco]

Yin terms of juicing, while Saunders has put in better performances since switching camps there doesn't seem any evidence of him being stronger and hitting harder.
Saunders main weapons have always revolved around his skilset, something that juicing doesn't really help with.
He def seems to be doing the weight better and seems to be fitter, but that could easily be down to taking hi camps seriously.
If you look at the likes of JMM, Paq, Holyfield, Mosely for example, these are smaller guys who have risen dramatically in weight and taken their strength and punch power with them.

[Cyclops]

I can't see where the above proved he's juicing

It doesn't prove it. It implies that it is a possibility.

But you wrote he was CLEARLY ON THE GEAR. Now you're saying it's a possibility

If the above quote LITERALLY proved he was juicing, then he'd be banned wouldn't he? I'm not saying I think it's a possibility. I'M saying I think he's on it. That quote isn't mine, but merely some evidence to substantiate it. He's been a lazy pig for years and has had a world title for ages which he sat on and openly said "anybody but him" when it came to GGG. As soon as he moved to the Ingles and started posting Adonis-like selfies I knew something was up, so declining VADA is a good enough red flag as any for me.

[Taansend]

It doesn't prove it. It implies that it is a possibility.

But you wrote he was CLEARLY ON THE GEAR. Now you're saying it's a possibility

If the above quote LITERALLY proved he was juicing, then he'd be banned wouldn't he? I'm not saying I think it's a possibility. I'M saying I think he's on it. That quote isn't mine, but merely some evidence to substantiate it. He's been a lazy pig for years and has had a world title for ages which he sat on and openly said "anybody but him" when it came to GGG. As soon as he moved to the Ingles and started posting Adonis-like selfies I knew something was up, so declining VADA is a good enough red flag as any for me.

All about opinions I suppose. I see it as dedication. I didn't see any dramatic change in his physicality, just his attitude., I created a thread about it about 8 months ago. I think the Fury saga was a wake up call for him.

It's just that when you said he was clearly on the juice I thought there was some proof. Not having a dig at you but it's a sad sign of the times that when a boxer starts to put the effort in he's obviously juicing in the eyes of many fans.

But as I said straight off, I know f*ck all about the juicing side of things although I do know, from experience, how much you can achieve when you knuckle down, eat & sleep right.

[MightyWarrior]

There’s plenty of top level fighters I’m fairly sure are on the gear, but BJS is not one of them.
Losing weight and getting serious in the gym with a new trainer don’t set any alarms bells ringing at all.

[Cyclops]

All about opinions I suppose. I see it as dedication. I didn't see any dramatic change in his physicality, just his attitude., I created a thread about it about 8 months ago. I think the Fury saga was a wake up call for him.

It's just that when you said he was clearly on the juice I thought there was some proof. Not having a dig at you but it's a sad sign of the times that when a boxer starts to put the effort in he's obviously juicing in the eyes of many fans.

But as I said straight off, I know f*ck all about the juicing side of things although I do know, from experience, how much you can achieve when you knuckle down, eat & sleep right.

These are less innocent times. I don't know much about PED's either but have a bodybuilding mate who is like an encyclopaedia on it. He's one of those that repeats the mantra that ALL world quality athletes are on something otherwise they just wouldn't be able to compete. Granted, he's not jumped weight divisions or grown a huge set of traps, but PED's aren't just about getting bigger and stronger. His speed and stamina have taken a remarkable leap and, as somebody who looked like he was at last chance saloon only a few fights ago, to suddenly become maybe our best champion and catch the eye of Floyd Mayweather Jnr seems fishy to me.

Anyway... I like the fight and would rather Billy won.

[Taansend]

All about opinions I suppose. I see it as dedication. I didn't see any dramatic change in his physicality, just his attitude., I created a thread about it about 8 months ago. I think the Fury saga was a wake up call for him.

It's just that when you said he was clearly on the juice I thought there was some proof. Not having a dig at you but it's a sad sign of the times that when a boxer starts to put the effort in he's obviously juicing in the eyes of many fans.

But as I said straight off, I know f*ck all about the juicing side of things although I do know, from experience, how much you can achieve when you knuckle down, eat & sleep right.

These are less innocent times. I don't know much about PED's either but have a bodybuilding mate who is like an encyclopaedia on it. He's one of those that repeats the mantra that ALL world quality athletes are on something otherwise they just wouldn't be able to compete. Granted, he's not jumped weight divisions or grown a huge set of traps, but PED's aren't just about getting bigger and stronger. His speed and stamina have taken a remarkable leap and, as somebody who looked like he was at last chance saloon only a few fights ago, to suddenly become maybe our best champion and catch the eye of Floyd Mayweather Jnr seems fishy to me.

Anyway... I like the fight and would rather Billy won.

My speed and stamina make remarkable leaps when I train properly, mate. It's amazing what the human body can achieve. My speed bag is in storage so I haven't hit it in six months. Give me a couple of weeks back on it & I'll be flying but right now I'd look very slow & uncoordinated.

I also have mates who are of the "every top athlete is on PEDs" ilk. I'm sure a huge amount are. And BJS might be. But him deciding to start living & training properly doesn't mean he CLEARLY IS ON THE JUICE. You definitely spoke out of turn there.

I just don't see what's happened to BJS in the last year as any proof of this whatsoever.

[chinarich]

Saunders used to get a lot of criticism for the shape he was in, however when he knuckles down and takes his training and nutrition to a higher level he’s “clearly on the gear”...

[Londonirish]

Saunders used to get a lot of criticism for the shape he was in, however when he knuckles down and takes his training and nutrition to a higher level he’s “clearly on the gear”...

Spot on!!

[coneye]

I don't know too much about Peds , but i do know putting in the effort works wonders , Seems to me Billy has gone to a team where he fits in , and has to listen or leave ,