Roberto Duran's legacy?

[NYDominican]

Clearly, Roberto Duran had a very long professional boxing career. Many people consider Roberto to be one of the greatest boxers of all time.

Throughout Duran's pro career, he lost to these boxers. ------------ Ray Leonard (twice), Wilfred Benitez, Kirkland Laing, Marvin Hagler, Thomas Hearns, Robbie Sims, Pat Lawlor, Vinny Pazienza (twice), Hector Camacho (twice), Jorge Castro, William Joppy, and Omar Eduardo Gonzalez.

Thomas Hearn's knocking out Roberto was VERY brutal.



1. Since Roberto lost all of these times, do you think that Duran should rank among the greatest of all time?



2. Is Roberto, overrated? Or, is he underrated?

Why?



Please explain.

[Noxy]

1. I think so, remember he was at his most fearsome at lightweight. It was only afterwards that he moved up and mixed it with the Fab Four etc. Sure he lost a few but that’s what happens when you have 100+ fights.

2. I don’t think he’s overrated. Again when people talk about Duran, it’s rarely about his success at lightweight. To me, that goes to show how amazing his career was.

[DrDuke]

Duran is a one of the all time greatest boxers for sure. He's the best lightweight ever. He went up and defeated prime Sugar Ray Leonard, no one else did it. He had some troublesome times after that, but he managed to overcome everything, he went up and crushed Davey Moore for another World championship. He went up and challenged the dominant force of the middleweights, another ATG boxer - Marvin Hagler. He lost there, but in a very close bout. After that he had troubles again, but still he was able to outbrawl big Iran Barkley for the middleweight championship at his late thirties. Most of his losses were after that, when he was clearly past prime. And every loss, except a single avenged one, were after he went up from his natural cathegory. This incredible resume tells everything for Roberto, he can't be overrated, he gets a well deserved credit.

[bennie]

What I like about Duran is that he was able to shrug off defeat and come back with a world title win as he showed when he beat Moore and Barkley six years apart. Defeat is something that every fighter has to deal with and it's how a fighter comes back from defeat that ultimately defines him. Duran proved his greatness in the way he came back. Furthermore, anyone who walked into Duran in his long pro career (Hearns apart) was gonna get hurt.

[Tuan_Jim]

More than half the losses were in that meaningless comeback that began in 1991 age 40 versus Pat Lawlor (which fittingly he lost). Doesn't affect his legacy anymore than Ali's is by losing to Berbick or Holyfield to Toney, Robinson versus all those pugs.

[DrDuke]

More than half the losses were in that meaningless comeback that began in 1991 age 40 versus Pat Lawlor (which fittingly he lost). Doesn't affect his legacy anymore than Ali's is by losing to Berbick or Holyfield to Toney, Robinson versus all those pugs.

Exactly.

[ewenhay]

1. Yes, at lightweight
2. His rating, as possibly the best lightweight ever, is pretty fair I think.

[elmersalsa]

In my view, the greatest fighter in boxing history of the last 50 years!

Why? After the No Mas fiasco, he redeemed himself being considered a shot fighter. He lost many fans after No Mas, including "close friends" that left him in his dark years.

Fought incredibly against guys that were taller, bigger and stronger than he in weight classes that he could not handle above his weight range.

What fighter had a comeback like he did after two crushing and devastating losses (No Mas and the Decapitation by The Hitman)?.....Not many boxers had done it. I could count it with one hand.

And in his prime, an incredible performer. A real fighter. A manager's and boxing fan's dream. No fighter from featherweight to Jr welterweight wanted a piece of him. None! I have never seen that in my years watching boxing.

A top 5 great all time pound per pound boxer. Only Henry Armstrong, Sugar Ray Robinson and Sam Langford we're better than he. Anybody else comes behind him.

[Ambling Alp II]

One of the top 20 fighters of all time. Certainly one of the top 5 when it comes to excuses, possibly even number 1.

[SenorPipino]

One of the top 20 fighters of all time. Certainly one of the top 5 when it comes to excuses, possibly even number 1.

I think Jerry Quarry topped Duran in the excuse department.

David Haye is no slouch either.

[elmersalsa]

One of the top 20 fighters of all time. Certainly one of the top 5 when it comes to excuses, possibly even number 1.

Is Sugar Ray Leonard in the top 5 excuses department, too?

That "he didn't fight his fight" is an excuse, right?

Duran, the greatest!

[dr_devious]

Best lightweight of all time. Was at a size disadvantage when he fought the other three but lb for lb he's up there with Leonard and higher than Hagler and Hearns

[Ambling Alp II]

One of the top 20 fighters of all time. Certainly one of the top 5 when it comes to excuses, possibly even number 1.

Is Sugar Ray Leonard in the top 5 excuses department, too?

That "he didn't fight his fight" is an excuse, right?

Duran, the greatest!

No, that is a criticism of Leonard. Leonard lost the first fight, period. Duran lost the second fight, period. Duran lost to Benitez, period.

[elmersalsa]

One of the top 20 fighters of all time. Certainly one of the top 5 when it comes to excuses, possibly even number 1.

Is Sugar Ray Leonard in the top 5 excuses department, too?

That "he didn't fight his fight" is an excuse, right?

Duran, the greatest!

No, that is a criticism of Leonard. Leonard lost the first fight, period. Duran lost the second fight, period. Duran lost to Benitez, period.

No no no. It's was an excuse by the Sugar Ray fan base and American media when he got whupped by Duran. Not a criticism.

"Sugar Ray didn't fight his fight". Bullshit! He got whupped!

[jpspice]

Duran is a one of the all time greatest boxers for sure. He's the best lightweight ever. He went up and defeated prime Sugar Ray Leonard, no one else did it. He had some troublesome times after that, but he managed to overcome everything, he went up and crushed Davey Moore for another World championship. He went up and challenged the dominant force of the middleweights, another ATG boxer - Marvin Hagler. He lost there, but in a very close bout. After that he had troubles again, but still he was able to outbrawl big Iran Barkley for the middleweight championship at his late thirties. Most of his losses were after that, when he was clearly past prime. And every loss, except a single avenged one, were after he went up from his natural cathegory. This incredible resume tells everything for Roberto, he can't be overrated, he gets a well deserved credit.

I totally agree. Also, I think Duran underestimated Tommy and came to the fight physically unprepared. If he had gotten past Tommy's right hand for another round or two he likely would have been the one delivering the KO.

[SenorPipino]

Duran is a one of the all time greatest boxers for sure. He's the best lightweight ever. He went up and defeated prime Sugar Ray Leonard, no one else did it. He had some troublesome times after that, but he managed to overcome everything, he went up and crushed Davey Moore for another World championship. He went up and challenged the dominant force of the middleweights, another ATG boxer - Marvin Hagler. He lost there, but in a very close bout. After that he had troubles again, but still he was able to outbrawl big Iran Barkley for the middleweight championship at his late thirties. Most of his losses were after that, when he was clearly past prime. And every loss, except a single avenged one, were after he went up from his natural cathegory. This incredible resume tells everything for Roberto, he can't be overrated, he gets a well deserved credit.

I totally agree. Also, I think Duran underestimated Tommy and came to the fight physically unprepared. If he had gotten past Tommy's right hand for another round or two he likely would have been the one delivering the KO.

At 154, I don't believe Duran would ever have beaten Hearns.

Too many physical advantages were enjoyed by the Hit Man.

There has always been talk that the one fighter who actually intimidated Duran was Hearns.

I don't think that he really wanted to fight him.

[elmersalsa]

Duran is a one of the all time greatest boxers for sure. He's the best lightweight ever. He went up and defeated prime Sugar Ray Leonard, no one else did it. He had some troublesome times after that, but he managed to overcome everything, he went up and crushed Davey Moore for another World championship. He went up and challenged the dominant force of the middleweights, another ATG boxer - Marvin Hagler. He lost there, but in a very close bout. After that he had troubles again, but still he was able to outbrawl big Iran Barkley for the middleweight championship at his late thirties. Most of his losses were after that, when he was clearly past prime. And every loss, except a single avenged one, were after he went up from his natural cathegory. This incredible resume tells everything for Roberto, he can't be overrated, he gets a well deserved credit.

I totally agree. Also, I think Duran underestimated Tommy and came to the fight physically unprepared. If he had gotten past Tommy's right hand for another round or two he likely would have been the one delivering the KO.

At 154, I don't believe Duran would ever have beaten Hearns.

Too many physical advantages were enjoyed by the Hit Man.

There has always been talk that the one fighter who actually intimidated Duran was Hearns.

I don't think that he really wanted to fight him.

154lbs was the RIGHT WEIGHT for the great Thomas Hearns. He was stronger there and had sturdier legs than when he was at 147lbs.

Duran at 154lbs was chubby and more slower. It wasn't the right weight class for him and it showed. At middleweight, it was much worse.

[SenorPipino]

I totally agree. Also, I think Duran underestimated Tommy and came to the fight physically unprepared. If he had gotten past Tommy's right hand for another round or two he likely would have been the one delivering the KO.

At 154, I don't believe Duran would ever have beaten Hearns.

Too many physical advantages were enjoyed by the Hit Man.

There has always been talk that the one fighter who actually intimidated Duran was Hearns.

I don't think that he really wanted to fight him.

154lbs was the RIGHT WEIGHT for the great Thomas Hearns. He was stronger there and had sturdier legs than when he was at 147lbs.

Duran at 154lbs was chubby and more slower. It wasn't the right weight class for him and it showed. At middleweight, it was much worse.

Although he had a few notable achievements at the higher weights (destroying Moore and winning an instant classic versus Barkley) Duran should never have fought above welterweight.

[elmersalsa]

He shouldn't and you are right, SenorPipino. But, if he never won those two titles, I don't think his legacy would have been greater than it is now. His mark was that he came back after devastating losses. Not too many boxers did that. I could count it with one hand. It won't pass more than 4.

[SenorPipino]

He shouldn't and you are right, SenorPipino. But, if he never won those two titles, I don't think his legacy would have been greater than it is now. His mark was that he came back after devastating losses. Not too many boxers did that. I could count it with one hand. It won't pass more than 4.

That's a good point about Duran's legacy actually enhanced by climbing far past his realistic weight ceiling and scoring a couple of remarkable victories.

But past welter, the added weight was a burden to carry and Duran could no longer fight consistently at a high level.

Now go ahead. Name those 4.

[oogiebe]

His legacy would have been better had not gone beyond WW.

[SenorPipino]

His legacy would have been better had not gone beyond WW.

But I think ES raises a good point that although fighting far beyond his best weight, Duran was still able to pull off a couple of memorably historic wins after some devastating defeats.

Even his losing performance against ATG beast Hagler enhanced his reputation.

He probably ended up losing more fights than necessary by moving up to as heavy as super middleweight (although defeats will mount when you stick around long enough to fight in 4 different decades no matter the weight).

But those few special performances at the higher weights demonstrated what a remarkable fighter Duran truly was.

[oogiebe]

His legacy would have been better had not gone beyond WW.

But I think ES raises a good point that although fighting far beyond his best weight, Duran was still able to pull off a couple of memorably historic wins after some devastating defeats.

Even his losing performance against ATG beast Hagler enhanced his reputation.

He probably ended up losing more fights than necessary by moving up to as heavy as super middleweight (although defeats will mount when you stick around long enough to fight in 4 different decades no matter the weight).

But those few special performances at the higher weights demonstrated what a remarkable fighter Duran truly was.

Fair point, but imho, it tarnished his legacy to move up and lose the way he did.

[jpspice]

Duran is a one of the all time greatest boxers for sure. He's the best lightweight ever. He went up and defeated prime Sugar Ray Leonard, no one else did it. He had some troublesome times after that, but he managed to overcome everything, he went up and crushed Davey Moore for another World championship. He went up and challenged the dominant force of the middleweights, another ATG boxer - Marvin Hagler. He lost there, but in a very close bout. After that he had troubles again, but still he was able to outbrawl big Iran Barkley for the middleweight championship at his late thirties. Most of his losses were after that, when he was clearly past prime. And every loss, except a single avenged one, were after he went up from his natural cathegory. This incredible resume tells everything for Roberto, he can't be overrated, he gets a well deserved credit.

I totally agree. Also, I think Duran underestimated Tommy and came to the fight physically unprepared. If he had gotten past Tommy's right hand for another round or two he likely would have been the one delivering the KO.

At 154, I don't believe Duran would ever have beaten Hearns.

Too many physical advantages were enjoyed by the Hit Man.

There has always been talk that the one fighter who actually intimidated Duran was Hearns.

I don't think that he really wanted to fight him.

He Definitely was the only one Duran ever showed visible respect for in the ring.

[HomicideHenry]

For me he was the best fighter of the last 50 years. Of the "Big Four" of the 1980s he was the best in the p4p sense. Break it down:

From 1968-2001, a record of 103-16 (70) from 130 pounds to 175 pounds. The majority of those losses came in the 90s and 2000s when he was in his late 40s and early 50s.

From 1968-1978 he campaigned strictly at 130 pounds, winning the championship, and defending the title 13 times. He also had a dozen plus fights in between those defenses. By time he vacated the title and gunning for the 147 pound title he was 71-1-0 as a pro when he defeated Ray Leonard in 1980.

So from 1968-1980 is the first era of Duran. 72-2-0 following the "No Mas" return match with Leonard. By this time he was already considered the greatest Lightweight of all time. He still is.

From 1981-1989 is the second era of Duran. This is the era he's mostly remembered for. The Duran whose driven solely by the desire to try and eradicate the "No Mas" from the minds of the public. He wins the Junior Middleweight title. He challenges Marvin Hagler for the Middleweight title and narrowly loses. He manages to win the Super Middleweight title against Iran Barkley. It was an exciting time for Duran, but there was losses to Thomas Hearns, Wilfred Benetiz as well as to the unlikely Robbie Simms and Kirkland Laing. After losing, once again, to Ray Leonard (who ran away most of the time) he announced his retirement.

1991-2001.... Unfortunately.... Is the third era of Duran and is a mixture of sadness and surprise.... The surprise is how, even in this state, Duran fought for the Super Middleweight (and Middleweight) title three times, as well as managing to win the NBA Super Middleweight title against Pat Lawlor, who defeated Duran back in the beginning of Duran's comeback.... Some have argued that Duran was robbed against champion Vinny Pazienza in their first bout.

The irony is that it wasn't age that ultimately retired Duran, but a car wreck. He was 50 years old at retirement. He was 16-5 (13) overall in world title fights. The greatest Panamanian fighter of all time.