Antonio Tarver - Overrated?

[James9753]

Was Antionio Tarver Overrated? Arguably his best win was over Roy Jones, albeit not the best version of Jones we were used to. And then got absolutely dominated by Hopkins later on. How does he rate as I find him quite hard to pin point down?

[BoxBuzz]

I think of him as a "boutique" fighter.......a fighter that gained his rep by being just what the Dr ordered to beat an all time great.

Not an all time great himself, but focused and devoted himself on just the skillset to pretty much outmaneuver the guy who could pretty much beat everyone else.

Norton fits this descriptor to my way of thinking as well, though he didn't mastermind it himself.

On a far smaller scale David Haye may have met his "boutique" opponent......a guy who even admits himself that he'll never be as good as Haye, but was just the right style match to beat him consistently.

Not sure if that means Tarver is over rated.....but his "rating" includes the fact that he had the keys to beat a much greater opponent while sometimes looking somewhat ordinary otherwise.

[gregor]

Rating Tarver a bit like rating Ken Norton - you have "that" win over one opponent that really stands out of the rest of career... without it would be still very good career, but below HOF level.

[SenorPipino]

I never saw him as anything terribly special.

But on his better nights, he could compete with the best.

But very inconsistent. Not the type of fighter you want to get on or against.

You never knew what Tarver would bring to the ring in any given night.

[ClivePatrickLyons]

Tarver lost a very close decision to Roy Jones Jr right after he Won the WBA Heavyweight Title off Ruiz then he knocked Roy out in the rematch not long after he also beat some good fighters like Montell Griffin and Glen Johnson and after Jones Jr Got stopped in 1 round by Aussie Danny Green he went to Australia and dominated Green and stopping him in 9 was probably more of an underachiever if anything he was a talented guy who had a great amateur record also just didn't take it all serious enough

[jamamb]

i dont feel that ppl rate him all that highly tbh. he was a world class lhw and had a good career, but i agree he was nothing special and was below hall of fame level

[Tuan_Jim]

I don't think he's overrated, people don't seem to rate him very highly, which I think is right.

He had his Max Cady like fixation with Roy Jones, lured him back into the light heavies, lost fair and square, found a magic punch in the rematch, and then had a fairly spotty career thereafter. Wins over Reggie Johnson, Montell Griffin, Eric Harding and Glencoffee Johnson are nice, but he also lost to some of them and was thoroughly schooled by Hopkins and low IQ Dawson. His great claim is essentially landing one big punch on a slowed fading name. Who cares?

Was hated by the whole Atlanta 96 squad and I don't think many people like him all that much.

[HomicideHenry]

I always liked Tarver.

I felt he was indeed robbed in the first fight with Jones. He subsequently beat Jones twice more to prove a point. Unfortunately, the mainstream media storyline wasn't about Tarver being so good but rather how much Roy was sucking. Rather disrespectful.

He had a nice little rivalry with Glenn Johnson (splitting wins). He fought a pretty good fight with BHop, though he lost. He managed to pick up IBO titles at 175 and Cruiserweight, defeating the same Danny Green who kayoed Roy Jones in Roy's failed bid at Cruiserweight.

He beat Johnathan Banks and (imho) was robbed in a draw against Steve Cunningham (both were Heavyweight fights) and seemed poised for a crack at the Heavyweight title but.... Apparently nobody wanted to risk it against a 40'something old man who still could fight and still give people lots of problems.

Overrated? Nah. If I had to make a case, it'd be that despite whatever he did he was overlooked; sorta like Mason "The Line" Dixon character he played in the ROCKY BALBOA movie. He is somewhat underrated.

[lazboy]

He operated on a very good level. I will not forget the beating he gave Danny Green - Beat him and sweet scienced him.

[Tuan_Jim]

I always liked Tarver.

I felt he was indeed robbed in the first fight with Jones. He subsequently beat Jones twice more to prove a point. Unfortunately, the mainstream media storyline wasn't about Tarver being so good but rather how much Roy was sucking. Rather disrespectful.

He had a nice little rivalry with Glenn Johnson (splitting wins). He fought a pretty good fight with BHop, though he lost. He managed to pick up IBO titles at 175 and Cruiserweight, defeating the same Danny Green who kayoed Roy Jones in Roy's failed bid at Cruiserweight.

He beat Johnathan Banks and (imho) was robbed in a draw against Steve Cunningham (both were Heavyweight fights) and seemed poised for a crack at the Heavyweight title but.... Apparently nobody wanted to risk it against a 40'something old man who still could fight and still give people lots of problems.

Overrated? Nah. If I had to make a case, it'd be that despite whatever he did he was overlooked; sorta like Mason "The Line" Dixon character he played in the ROCKY BALBOA movie. He is somewhat underrated.

You might be the worst poster on all of Boxrec.

[HomicideHenry]

I've been here for over a decade. Believe you me there's been far worse opinions, and far worse posters consistently. Though I said he was underrated, I'm not saying that he was one of the all-time greats either. So I've said nothing sacrilegious. He happened to be at the right place at the right time, and he had enough skills to make bigger men look foolish.

[gilgamesh]

I think of him as a "boutique" fighter.......a fighter that gained his rep by being just what the Dr ordered to beat an all time great.

Not an all time great himself, but focused and devoted himself on just the skillset to pretty much outmaneuver the guy who could pretty much beat everyone else.

Norton fits this descriptor to my way of thinking as well, though he didn't mastermind it himself.

On a far smaller scale David Haye may have met his "boutique" opponent......a guy who even admits himself that he'll never be as good as Haye, but was just the right style match to beat him consistently.

Not sure if that means Tarver is over rated.....but his "rating" includes the fact that he had the keys to beat a much greater opponent while sometimes looking somewhat ordinary otherwise.

Perfect description Buzz

[Taansend]

I always liked Tarver.

I felt he was indeed robbed in the first fight with Jones. He subsequently beat Jones twice more to prove a point. Unfortunately, the mainstream media storyline wasn't about Tarver being so good but rather how much Roy was sucking. Rather disrespectful.

He had a nice little rivalry with Glenn Johnson (splitting wins). He fought a pretty good fight with BHop, though he lost. He managed to pick up IBO titles at 175 and Cruiserweight, defeating the same Danny Green who kayoed Roy Jones in Roy's failed bid at Cruiserweight.

He beat Johnathan Banks and (imho) was robbed in a draw against Steve Cunningham (both were Heavyweight fights) and seemed poised for a crack at the Heavyweight title but.... Apparently nobody wanted to risk it against a 40'something old man who still could fight and still give people lots of problems.

Overrated? Nah. If I had to make a case, it'd be that despite whatever he did he was overlooked; sorta like Mason "The Line" Dixon character he played in the ROCKY BALBOA movie. He is somewhat underrated.

Henry,

As much as I disagree with you elsewhere this is pretty much on the money

[HomicideHenry]

Henry,

As much as I disagree with you elsewhere this is pretty much on the money

Thanks Taansend.

That's the beauty of life, finding what you can agree on and build on those things rather than focus on the disagreements.

[Taansend]

Henry,

As much as I disagree with you elsewhere this is pretty much on the money

Thanks Taansend.

That's the beauty of life, finding what you can agree on and build on those things rather than focus on the disagreements.

True.

[Tuan_Jim]

I always liked Tarver.

I felt he was indeed robbed in the first fight with Jones. He subsequently beat Jones twice more to prove a point. Unfortunately, the mainstream media storyline wasn't about Tarver being so good but rather how much Roy was sucking. Rather disrespectful.

He had a nice little rivalry with Glenn Johnson (splitting wins). He fought a pretty good fight with BHop, though he lost. He managed to pick up IBO titles at 175 and Cruiserweight, defeating the same Danny Green who kayoed Roy Jones in Roy's failed bid at Cruiserweight.

He beat Johnathan Banks and (imho) was robbed in a draw against Steve Cunningham (both were Heavyweight fights) and seemed poised for a crack at the Heavyweight title but.... Apparently nobody wanted to risk it against a 40'something old man who still could fight and still give people lots of problems.

Overrated? Nah. If I had to make a case, it'd be that despite whatever he did he was overlooked; sorta like Mason "The Line" Dixon character he played in the ROCKY BALBOA movie. He is somewhat underrated.

Henry,

As much as I disagree with you elsewhere this is pretty much on the money

On the money? He says Tarver was robbed versus Jones in the first fight. Okay, it's a fight that divides opinion but ultimately Tarver landed overall 9 more punches than did Jones. Nine! And in pure power punches Jones landed more, and had the higher accuracy. Can you really claim you were robbed versus the biggest name in boxing because of nine punches? Most people on the night scored it Jones or a draw.

Also--'he fought a pretty good fight' versus Hopkins? What, by losing every round and getting knocked down in the process? David Tua must have fought an even better fight versus Lennox Lewis--he stayed on his feet!

And he 'managed to pick up IBO titles at 175 and Cruiserweight'--wow, what an accomplishment that is. How ever did he manage to win such prized, desirable straps? An IBO champ--that elevates him to the same rarefied level as Brian Nielsen! Too bad he failed drugs test, but I guess you need to be on drugs to compete with monsters like Elvir Muriqi and Lateef Kayoade.

Tarver was horrible, and was in the right place at the right time versus a Jones who would have mopped the floor with him a few years earlier, as he did Tarver's problematic opponents Eric Harding, Reggie Johnson and Bernard Hopkins.

[HomicideHenry]

Seems someone believes Jones to be the absolute greatest of all time.... And that Tarver was just absolutely "horrible".... Fact is all Jones was was a stellar athlete, and the moment his athleticism dipped, he shown he was completely worthless.

[Tuan_Jim]

Seems someone believes Jones to be the absolute greatest of all time.... And that Tarver was just absolutely "horrible".... Fact is all Jones was was a stellar athlete, and the moment his athleticism dipped, he shown he was completely worthless.

Yes Henry, at 35 Jones showed he was completely worthless. Just that paltry decade at the top, across four weight divisions, and then he was worthless! Remind me how long Tarver lasted after he landed that magic punch on Jones? Oh yes, he lost his next fight.

[HomicideHenry]

At least Tarver was a real boxer. Jones was just a freak athlete. The moment the freak athleticism was gone, he was just ordinary. Tarver had a few setbacks, but he demonstrated that at 195 and up he could befuddle alot of challengers. His best win (other than Roy) has to be Danny Green.

Look again at the timeline. Tarver beats Green, then gets popped for PEDs against Kayode, and then Green becomes the Cruiserweight Champion of the world. Tarver, easily, could have been the undisputed Cruiserweight Champion. He was robbed (imho) against Steve Cunningham in their Heavyweight bout, and everyone knows how good of a Cruiserweight he was.

Tarver could have done what Jones couldn't. Win the Cruiserweight title. Tarver could have (also) fought for the Heavyweight title, but nobody seemed interested in risking their reputation and careers against a cagey old man who had just enough speed and reflexes to make behemoths look like amateurs.

Jones... Meh... The most overrated fighter of my entire lifetime, if not of all time.... Nothing more than an "all around athlete" who had no backup plan for when he no longer was a superb athlete... Unlike Ali and others, he never adapted once the speed was gone.

That's why I don't rate Jones by and large. He was just fast. That's it. Nothing more. Speed doesn't mean squat. And in his case, he proved it didn't mean anything, because from Ruiz onwards he was never the same and the losses piled up. Hell even his wins from that time on weren't all that impressive. Some I'd argue were even gift decisions just because he's good ole Roy.

[Boxing Writer]

At least Tarver was a real boxer. Jones was just a freak athlete. The moment the freak athleticism was gone, he was just ordinary. Tarver had a few setbacks, but he demonstrated that at 195 and up he could befuddle alot of challengers. His best win (other than Roy) has to be Danny Green.

Look again at the timeline. Tarver beats Green, then gets popped for PEDs against Kayode, and then Green becomes the Cruiserweight Champion of the world. Tarver, easily, could have been the undisputed Cruiserweight Champion. He was robbed (imho) against Steve Cunningham in their Heavyweight bout, and everyone knows how good of a Cruiserweight he was.

Tarver could have done what Jones couldn't. Win the Cruiserweight title. Tarver could have (also) fought for the Heavyweight title, but nobody seemed interested in risking their reputation and careers against a cagey old man who had just enough speed and reflexes to make behemoths look like amateurs.

Jones... Meh... The most overrated fighter of my entire lifetime, if not of all time.... Nothing more than an "all around athlete" who had no backup plan for when he no longer was a superb athlete... Unlike Ali and others, he never adapted once the speed was gone.

That's why I don't rate Jones by and large. He was just fast. That's it. Nothing more. Speed doesn't mean squat. And in his case, he proved it didn't mean anything, because from Ruiz onwards he was never the same and the losses piled up. Hell even his wins from that time on weren't all that impressive. Some I'd argue were even gift decisions just because he's good ole Roy.

You are right that Jones biggest asset was his athleticism. But as for condemning him for using it, it would be like condemning Lewis and Wlad for using their size to keep their opponents on the distance and putting their weight on them in the countless clinches. Roy used his athleticism and reflexes very effectively just like prime Haye did. Lewis and Wlad used their height and weight advantage very effectively, Tyson used his speed/power advantage effectively. I like more boxers who had become great without being gifted by great physical assest - guys like Larry Holmes and Evander Holyfield. But I think it's normal for any sportsman to use his physical gifts as much as he can.

[littlepug]

Dont think anyone overated him, maybe more was expected of him that he didnt quite deliver on but all in all had an interesting career with plenty to boast about, i think most boxers would be happy winning a world title by beating a p4p fighter and following it up with a lead role in a Rocky film !

[Tuan_Jim]

At least Tarver was a real boxer. Jones was just a freak athlete. The moment the freak athleticism was gone, he was just ordinary. Tarver had a few setbacks, but he demonstrated that at 195 and up he could befuddle alot of challengers. His best win (other than Roy) has to be Danny Green.

Look again at the timeline. Tarver beats Green, then gets popped for PEDs against Kayode, and then Green becomes the Cruiserweight Champion of the world. Tarver, easily, could have been the undisputed Cruiserweight Champion. He was robbed (imho) against Steve Cunningham in their Heavyweight bout, and everyone knows how good of a Cruiserweight he was.

Tarver could have done what Jones couldn't. Win the Cruiserweight title. Tarver could have (also) fought for the Heavyweight title, but nobody seemed interested in risking their reputation and careers against a cagey old man who had just enough speed and reflexes to make behemoths look like amateurs.

Jones... Meh... The most overrated fighter of my entire lifetime, if not of all time.... Nothing more than an "all around athlete" who had no backup plan for when he no longer was a superb athlete... Unlike Ali and others, he never adapted once the speed was gone.

That's why I don't rate Jones by and large. He was just fast. That's it. Nothing more. Speed doesn't mean squat. And in his case, he proved it didn't mean anything, because from Ruiz onwards he was never the same and the losses piled up. Hell even his wins from that time on weren't all that impressive. Some I'd argue were even gift decisions just because he's good ole Roy.

You are right that Jones biggest asset was his athleticism. But as for condemning him for using it, it would be like condemning Lewis and Wlad for using their size to keep their opponents on the distance and putting their weight on them in the countless clinches. Roy used his athleticism and reflexes very effectively just like prime Haye did. Lewis and Wlad used their height and weight advantage very effectively, Tyson used his speed/power advantage effectively. I like more boxers who had become great without being gifted by great physical assest - guys like Larry Holmes and Evander Holyfield. But I think it's normal for any sportsman to use his physical gifts as much as he can.

Glad you responded BW, I read his reply with bewilderment and didn't have the strength to explain remedial boxing to him. I'm not sure I've read a post more infantile and illogical. Henry has a reputation here for a reason.
Henry has a reputation here for a reason.

[Tuan_Jim]

Dont think anyone overated him, maybe more was expected of him that he didnt quite deliver on but all in all had an interesting career with plenty to boast about, i think most boxers would be happy winning a world title by beating a p4p fighter and following it up with a lead role in a Rocky film !

And pissed away all his earnings at the craps table! Real smart guy, Tarver.

[littlepug]

Dont think anyone overated him, maybe more was expected of him that he didnt quite deliver on but all in all had an interesting career with plenty to boast about, i think most boxers would be happy winning a world title by beating a p4p fighter and following it up with a lead role in a Rocky film !

And pissed away all his earnings at the craps table! Real smart guy, Tarver.

Well, money comes and goes but the memories are forever, at least until you lose your marbles anyway !

[Tuan_Jim]

Dont think anyone overated him, maybe more was expected of him that he didnt quite deliver on but all in all had an interesting career with plenty to boast about, i think most boxers would be happy winning a world title by beating a p4p fighter and following it up with a lead role in a Rocky film !

And pissed away all his earnings at the craps table! Real smart guy, Tarver.

Well, money comes and goes but the memories are forever, at least until you lose your marbles anyway !