KLITSCHKO FANS SHOULD STOP USING MEANINGLESS STATS AND KO RATIOS IN DEBATES

[Tuan_Jim]

A lot of Klit fans when discussing their idols cite statistics (which "don't lie") and avoid detail. The oldest of the old chestnuts is Vitali's reputed punch power, proven by his awesome KO ratio; here follows some detail.

1.

Vitali Klitschko hits Obed Sullivan with everything but can't deck him--and that fight is sandwiched by Grant and Tua both putting Sullivan on the floor, heavily. And yet who has the higher KO percentage?

Vitali: 87%
Tua: 73%
Grant: 65%

So according to the all-important KO percentages, the guy who couldn't put Sullivan down in 10 rounds of one-sided punching is the puncher, whereas the guy who spread eagled him in 30 seconds is considerably less hard hitting. Interesting,

2.

Vitali hits Byrd innumerable times, nothing happens. Prior to that Ike Ibeabuchi absolutely blitzes him, and later Wlad puts him on the floor several times. Who the higher KO percentage?

Vitali: 87%
Wladimir 77%
Ike 75%

So, just to be clear, because "stats don't lie", Vitali is the bigger puncher of the Klits, and although he couldn't hurt Byrd in any way he's a bigger puncher than Ike who put Byrd face down on the canvas.

3.

Vaughn Bean goes down heavily vs Holyfield, gets a long count, years later withstands everything Vitali throws with nary a wobble. Who has the higher KO percentage?

Vitali: 87%
Evander: 51%

So Holyfield, who put Bean down with one punch, according to the stats, can't punch while Vitali--who landed everything on Bean and couldn't so much as shake him up--is a Faces of Death level hitter.

4.

Vitali hits a fat 37 year old Lewis with his best shots, can't deck him, McCall and Rahman put him down heavily. Who can punch, who cannot punch?:

Vitali: 87%
Oliver: 51%
Hasim: 66%

Watch Oliver McCall's big right in round 2 on a prime Lewis, and watch Vitali Klistchko's big right in round 2 on an old Lewis and remember, ignore observable evidence, point to the stats and be assured that Vitali is the puncher here. DO NOT QUESTION ME. THE STATS DO NOT LIE.

5.

Vitali lands everything on an old fat 39 yr old Corrie Sanders, who has a history of chin problems, can't put him down. Hasim Rahman's paltry 66% we already have included above. And Nate Tubbs, who one-punch blitzed Corrie?

Vitali: 87%
Nate: 61%

6.

Sam Peter, down thrice vs Jameel McCline, down vs Wlad, and yet not a single KD by Vitali, who can't miss him. Wlad we have established is the inferior puncher, according to the stats. And McCline?

Vitali: 87%
Jameel: 42%

Jameel McCline, not even half the puncher Vitali is! Even though he knocks guys down Vitali can't, multiple times!

7.

Shannon Briggs, 40 years old, injured, overweight, still withstands 12 rounds of Vitali's punching with not a single knockdown. And yet Lennox Lewis put him down repeatedly. And Jameel McCline, he of the puny 42% KO percentage, also did the trick. What is it with this Jameel McCline bloke? No way can he hurt anyone--look at his kO percentage!!!!

Vitali: 87%
Lennox 73%

8.
Derek Chisora eats everything Vitali can throw, is then nuked by David Haye, catastrophic knockdowns.

Vitali: 87%
Hayemaker 81%

At last we find a man of at least comparable power to the mighty Vitali Klitschko--and he's a former cruiserweight! Make sense of that!

I could go on, with Arreola, Kevin Johnson etc, but I think I've made my point. Stop relying on KO percentages to make arguments. Vitali Klitschko's crazy KO ratio illustrates how meaningless KO ratios are.

(NB. The above can also be done to refute 'but Vit/Wlad was champ XX amount of years, but he won X amount of titles, but he won X amount of rounds, but he made XX amount of defences therefore must be the best ever' type gibberish.)

[gilgamesh]

Vitali could certainly hit, but a lot of his lofty KO percentage is owed to the fact that his competition was pretty abysmal...and I'm a fan of him and his brother, but that's just a fact.

[jamamb]

the albert sosnowski and arreaola fights sum up his stoppages, basically just clobber some inept guy over and over until they finally wilt late or the corner retires them

[Boxing Writer]

7.

Shannon Briggs, 40 years old, injured, overweight, still withstands 12 rounds of Vitali's punching with not a single knockdown. And yet Lennox Lewis put him down repeatedly. And Jameel McCline, he of the puny 42% KO percentage, also did the trick. What is it with this Jameel McCline bloke? No way can he hurt anyone--look at his kO percentage!!!!

Vitali: 87%
Lennox 73%

Darroll Wilson with 54% KO's percentage would be even better example if we are talking about Briggs. And he KTFOed Shannon with a single left hook in round 3 while Vitali battered Shannon mercilessly for 12 rounds. Jameel McCline with 42% of KOs also knocked Briggs down.

[Boxing Writer]

Vitali could certainly hit, but a lot of his lofty KO percentage is owed to the fact that his competition was pretty abysmal...and I'm a fan of him and his brother, but that's just a fact.

Wlad had much more quality opponents in his resume and hit much, much harder. Chris Byrd actually said Wlad hits 3 times harder than Vitali.

[gilgamesh]

Vitali could certainly hit, but a lot of his lofty KO percentage is owed to the fact that his competition was pretty abysmal...and I'm a fan of him and his brother, but that's just a fact.

Wlad had much more quality opponents in his resume and hit much, much harder. Chris Byrd actually said Wlad hits 3 times harder than Vitali.

I believe it. His punches definitely always looked more forceful than Vitali's to me, and his KO's often tend to look more devastating too.

[jamamb]

wlad had a real good snap to his shots, you could see him explode when he really committ

vitali was just all limp arm punches

[Tuan_Jim]

7.

Shannon Briggs, 40 years old, injured, overweight, still withstands 12 rounds of Vitali's punching with not a single knockdown. And yet Lennox Lewis put him down repeatedly. And Jameel McCline, he of the puny 42% KO percentage, also did the trick. What is it with this Jameel McCline bloke? No way can he hurt anyone--look at his kO percentage!!!!

Vitali: 87%
Lennox 73%

Darroll Wilson with 54% KO's percentage would be even better example if we are talking about Briggs. And he KTFOed Shannon with a single left hook in round 3 while Vitali battered Shannon mercilessly for 12 rounds. Jameel McCline with 42% of KOs also knocked Briggs down.

Ibragimov is yet another man who put Briggs down. There were too many to list!

[Heretic]

yeas KO ratio is bad way to judge one punch punching power.

I another news we just found out that water seems to be wet

[Boxerbeetle]

Vitali could certainly hit, but a lot of his lofty KO percentage is owed to the fact that his competition was pretty abysmal...and I'm a fan of him and his brother, but that's just a fact.

Wlad had much more quality opponents in his resume and hit much, much harder. Chris Byrd actually said Wlad hits 3 times harder than Vitali.

I still think Vitali would ko Wlad though.

[gilgamesh]

Vitali could certainly hit, but a lot of his lofty KO percentage is owed to the fact that his competition was pretty abysmal...and I'm a fan of him and his brother, but that's just a fact.

Wlad had much more quality opponents in his resume and hit much, much harder. Chris Byrd actually said Wlad hits 3 times harder than Vitali.

I still think Vitali would ko Wlad though.

If you could remove his emotions, and make him a soulless robot coming in maybe. If he's fighting his little brother, he'd lose because he wouldn't have it in him to beat up his little brother...even if he could.

[ewenhay]

Statistics are like mini skirts. They hide the most important bits.

[stellar]

Wladimir Klitschko is number one bite to overcome him

[Luis Fernando12]

A lot of Klit fans when discussing their idols cite statistics (which "don't lie") and avoid detail. The oldest of the old chestnuts is Vitali's reputed punch power, proven by his awesome KO ratio; here follows some detail.

1.

Vitali Klitschko hits Obed Sullivan with everything but can't deck him--and that fight is sandwiched by Grant and Tua both putting Sullivan on the floor, heavily. And yet who has the higher KO percentage?

Vitali: 87%
Tua: 73%
Grant: 65%

So according to the all-important KO percentages, the guy who couldn't put Sullivan down in 10 rounds of one-sided punching is the puncher, whereas the guy who spread eagled him in 30 seconds is considerably less hard hitting. Interesting,

2.

Vitali hits Byrd innumerable times, nothing happens. Prior to that Ike Ibeabuchi absolutely blitzes him, and later Wlad puts him on the floor several times. Who the higher KO percentage?

Vitali: 87%
Wladimir 77%
Ike 75%

So, just to be clear, because "stats don't lie", Vitali is the bigger puncher of the Klits, and although he couldn't hurt Byrd in any way he's a bigger puncher than Ike who put Byrd face down on the canvas.

3.

Vaughn Bean goes down heavily vs Holyfield, gets a long count, years later withstands everything Vitali throws with nary a wobble. Who has the higher KO percentage?

Vitali: 87%
Evander: 51%

So Holyfield, who put Bean down with one punch, according to the stats, can't punch while Vitali--who landed everything on Bean and couldn't so much as shake him up--is a Faces of Death level hitter.

4.

Vitali hits a fat 37 year old Lewis with his best shots, can't deck him, McCall and Rahman put him down heavily. Who can punch, who cannot punch?:

Vitali: 87%
Oliver: 51%
Hasim: 66%

Watch Oliver McCall's big right in round 2 on a prime Lewis, and watch Vitali Klistchko's big right in round 2 on an old Lewis and remember, ignore observable evidence, point to the stats and be assured that Vitali is the puncher here. DO NOT QUESTION ME. THE STATS DO NOT LIE.

5.

Vitali lands everything on an old fat 39 yr old Corrie Sanders, who has a history of chin problems, can't put him down. Hasim Rahman's paltry 66% we already have included above. And Nate Tubbs, who one-punch blitzed Corrie?

Vitali: 87%
Nate: 61%

6.

Sam Peter, down thrice vs Jameel McCline, down vs Wlad, and yet not a single KD by Vitali, who can't miss him. Wlad we have established is the inferior puncher, according to the stats. And McCline?

Vitali: 87%
Jameel: 42%

Jameel McCline, not even half the puncher Vitali is! Even though he knocks guys down Vitali can't, multiple times!

7.

Shannon Briggs, 40 years old, injured, overweight, still withstands 12 rounds of Vitali's punching with not a single knockdown. And yet Lennox Lewis put him down repeatedly. And Jameel McCline, he of the puny 42% KO percentage, also did the trick. What is it with this Jameel McCline bloke? No way can he hurt anyone--look at his kO percentage!!!!

Vitali: 87%
Lennox 73%

8.
Derek Chisora eats everything Vitali can throw, is then nuked by David Haye, catastrophic knockdowns.

Vitali: 87%
Hayemaker 81%

At last we find a man of at least comparable power to the mighty Vitali Klitschko--and he's a former cruiserweight! Make sense of that!

I could go on, with Arreola, Kevin Johnson etc, but I think I've made my point. Stop relying on KO percentages to make arguments. Vitali Klitschko's crazy KO ratio illustrates how meaningless KO ratios are.

(NB. The above can also be done to refute 'but Vit/Wlad was champ XX amount of years, but he won X amount of titles, but he won X amount of rounds, but he made XX amount of defences therefore must be the best ever' type gibberish.)

Just a minor correction to your title: OBJECTIVE PEOPLE IN GENERAL, SHOULD AVOID USING SINGLE STATISTIC AND INSTEAD USE COMPLETE STATISTICS TO ARRIVE AT CONCLUSIONS.

What you've just done, is use a single statistic (KO ratio) to prove a point. I can't speak for others, but that's not what I do. I look at various different statistics. Including performances against not just one common opponent, but every common opponents two boxers being compared, have faced. I also analyze various other stats, such as knockouts against top 10 ranked opponents, average knockout time, knockouts in championship rounds and etc.

Your post doesn't at all disprove the importance of stats to arrive at conclusions. Rather, it only just disproves how unreliable single stats / cherry picked stats are.

When I look at Wladimir Klitschko as a whole statistically, he has the best heavyweight record of all time. That's not even in dispute! You can't OBJECTIVELY dispute that Wladimir Klitschko was indeed the best and number 1 heavyweight in the world for a decade. Since it's impossible because you'd just be arguing against reality. You could make an assumptive claim that Wlad faced weaker opponents than past heavyweight champions and therefore he ranks lower. But that claim would have 0 merit in an objective conversation as that's a purely speculative / subjective statement.

[Tuan_Jim]

A lot of Klit fans when discussing their idols cite statistics (which "don't lie") and avoid detail. The oldest of the old chestnuts is Vitali's reputed punch power, proven by his awesome KO ratio; here follows some detail.

1.

Vitali Klitschko hits Obed Sullivan with everything but can't deck him--and that fight is sandwiched by Grant and Tua both putting Sullivan on the floor, heavily. And yet who has the higher KO percentage?

Vitali: 87%
Tua: 73%
Grant: 65%

So according to the all-important KO percentages, the guy who couldn't put Sullivan down in 10 rounds of one-sided punching is the puncher, whereas the guy who spread eagled him in 30 seconds is considerably less hard hitting. Interesting,

2.

Vitali hits Byrd innumerable times, nothing happens. Prior to that Ike Ibeabuchi absolutely blitzes him, and later Wlad puts him on the floor several times. Who the higher KO percentage?

Vitali: 87%
Wladimir 77%
Ike 75%

So, just to be clear, because "stats don't lie", Vitali is the bigger puncher of the Klits, and although he couldn't hurt Byrd in any way he's a bigger puncher than Ike who put Byrd face down on the canvas.

3.

Vaughn Bean goes down heavily vs Holyfield, gets a long count, years later withstands everything Vitali throws with nary a wobble. Who has the higher KO percentage?

Vitali: 87%
Evander: 51%

So Holyfield, who put Bean down with one punch, according to the stats, can't punch while Vitali--who landed everything on Bean and couldn't so much as shake him up--is a Faces of Death level hitter.

4.

Vitali hits a fat 37 year old Lewis with his best shots, can't deck him, McCall and Rahman put him down heavily. Who can punch, who cannot punch?:

Vitali: 87%
Oliver: 51%
Hasim: 66%

Watch Oliver McCall's big right in round 2 on a prime Lewis, and watch Vitali Klistchko's big right in round 2 on an old Lewis and remember, ignore observable evidence, point to the stats and be assured that Vitali is the puncher here. DO NOT QUESTION ME. THE STATS DO NOT LIE.

5.

Vitali lands everything on an old fat 39 yr old Corrie Sanders, who has a history of chin problems, can't put him down. Hasim Rahman's paltry 66% we already have included above. And Nate Tubbs, who one-punch blitzed Corrie?

Vitali: 87%
Nate: 61%

6.

Sam Peter, down thrice vs Jameel McCline, down vs Wlad, and yet not a single KD by Vitali, who can't miss him. Wlad we have established is the inferior puncher, according to the stats. And McCline?

Vitali: 87%
Jameel: 42%

Jameel McCline, not even half the puncher Vitali is! Even though he knocks guys down Vitali can't, multiple times!

7.

Shannon Briggs, 40 years old, injured, overweight, still withstands 12 rounds of Vitali's punching with not a single knockdown. And yet Lennox Lewis put him down repeatedly. And Jameel McCline, he of the puny 42% KO percentage, also did the trick. What is it with this Jameel McCline bloke? No way can he hurt anyone--look at his kO percentage!!!!

Vitali: 87%
Lennox 73%

8.
Derek Chisora eats everything Vitali can throw, is then nuked by David Haye, catastrophic knockdowns.

Vitali: 87%
Hayemaker 81%

At last we find a man of at least comparable power to the mighty Vitali Klitschko--and he's a former cruiserweight! Make sense of that!

I could go on, with Arreola, Kevin Johnson etc, but I think I've made my point. Stop relying on KO percentages to make arguments. Vitali Klitschko's crazy KO ratio illustrates how meaningless KO ratios are.

(NB. The above can also be done to refute 'but Vit/Wlad was champ XX amount of years, but he won X amount of titles, but he won X amount of rounds, but he made XX amount of defences therefore must be the best ever' type gibberish.)

Just a minor correction to your title: OBJECTIVE PEOPLE IN GENERAL, SHOULD AVOID USING SINGLE STATISTIC AND INSTEAD USE COMPLETE STATISTICS TO ARRIVE AT CONCLUSIONS.

What you've just done, is use a single statistic (KO ratio) to prove a point. I can't speak for others, but that's not what I do. I look at various different statistics. Including performances against not just one common opponent, but every common opponents two boxers being compared, have faced. I also analyze various other stats, such as knockouts against top 10 ranked opponents, average knockout time, knockouts in championship rounds and etc.

Your post doesn't at all disprove the importance of stats to arrive at conclusions. Rather, it only just disproves how unreliable single stats / cherry picked stats are.

When I look at Wladimir Klitschko as a whole statistically, he has the best heavyweight record of all time. That's not even in dispute! You can't OBJECTIVELY dispute that Wladimir Klitschko was indeed the best and number 1 heavyweight in the world for a decade. Since it's impossible because you'd just be arguing against reality. You could make an assumptive claim that Wlad faced weaker opponents than past heavyweight champions and therefore he ranks lower. But that claim would have 0 merit in an objective conversation as that's a purely speculative / subjective statement.

Listen to the dumb kid trying to sound smart.

I can easily prove that Wladimir Klitschko wasn't the best heavyweight in the world for 10 years. Watch me do it.

Here it comes.

Erm, was Vitali Klitschko boxing in those 10 years?

Yes he was. From 2008 to 2012.

So how could anyone claim that Wladimir was the best in the world, when Vitali would kick the crap out of him in an actual fight?

Better luck next time, current scene dummy!

[gilgamesh]

A lot of Klit fans when discussing their idols cite statistics (which "don't lie") and avoid detail. The oldest of the old chestnuts is Vitali's reputed punch power, proven by his awesome KO ratio; here follows some detail.

1.

Vitali Klitschko hits Obed Sullivan with everything but can't deck him--and that fight is sandwiched by Grant and Tua both putting Sullivan on the floor, heavily. And yet who has the higher KO percentage?

Vitali: 87%
Tua: 73%
Grant: 65%

So according to the all-important KO percentages, the guy who couldn't put Sullivan down in 10 rounds of one-sided punching is the puncher, whereas the guy who spread eagled him in 30 seconds is considerably less hard hitting. Interesting,

2.

Vitali hits Byrd innumerable times, nothing happens. Prior to that Ike Ibeabuchi absolutely blitzes him, and later Wlad puts him on the floor several times. Who the higher KO percentage?

Vitali: 87%
Wladimir 77%
Ike 75%

So, just to be clear, because "stats don't lie", Vitali is the bigger puncher of the Klits, and although he couldn't hurt Byrd in any way he's a bigger puncher than Ike who put Byrd face down on the canvas.

3.

Vaughn Bean goes down heavily vs Holyfield, gets a long count, years later withstands everything Vitali throws with nary a wobble. Who has the higher KO percentage?

Vitali: 87%
Evander: 51%

So Holyfield, who put Bean down with one punch, according to the stats, can't punch while Vitali--who landed everything on Bean and couldn't so much as shake him up--is a Faces of Death level hitter.

4.

Vitali hits a fat 37 year old Lewis with his best shots, can't deck him, McCall and Rahman put him down heavily. Who can punch, who cannot punch?:

Vitali: 87%
Oliver: 51%
Hasim: 66%

Watch Oliver McCall's big right in round 2 on a prime Lewis, and watch Vitali Klistchko's big right in round 2 on an old Lewis and remember, ignore observable evidence, point to the stats and be assured that Vitali is the puncher here. DO NOT QUESTION ME. THE STATS DO NOT LIE.

5.

Vitali lands everything on an old fat 39 yr old Corrie Sanders, who has a history of chin problems, can't put him down. Hasim Rahman's paltry 66% we already have included above. And Nate Tubbs, who one-punch blitzed Corrie?

Vitali: 87%
Nate: 61%

6.

Sam Peter, down thrice vs Jameel McCline, down vs Wlad, and yet not a single KD by Vitali, who can't miss him. Wlad we have established is the inferior puncher, according to the stats. And McCline?

Vitali: 87%
Jameel: 42%

Jameel McCline, not even half the puncher Vitali is! Even though he knocks guys down Vitali can't, multiple times!

7.

Shannon Briggs, 40 years old, injured, overweight, still withstands 12 rounds of Vitali's punching with not a single knockdown. And yet Lennox Lewis put him down repeatedly. And Jameel McCline, he of the puny 42% KO percentage, also did the trick. What is it with this Jameel McCline bloke? No way can he hurt anyone--look at his kO percentage!!!!

Vitali: 87%
Lennox 73%

8.
Derek Chisora eats everything Vitali can throw, is then nuked by David Haye, catastrophic knockdowns.

Vitali: 87%
Hayemaker 81%

At last we find a man of at least comparable power to the mighty Vitali Klitschko--and he's a former cruiserweight! Make sense of that!

I could go on, with Arreola, Kevin Johnson etc, but I think I've made my point. Stop relying on KO percentages to make arguments. Vitali Klitschko's crazy KO ratio illustrates how meaningless KO ratios are.

(NB. The above can also be done to refute 'but Vit/Wlad was champ XX amount of years, but he won X amount of titles, but he won X amount of rounds, but he made XX amount of defences therefore must be the best ever' type gibberish.)

Just a minor correction to your title: OBJECTIVE PEOPLE IN GENERAL, SHOULD AVOID USING SINGLE STATISTIC AND INSTEAD USE COMPLETE STATISTICS TO ARRIVE AT CONCLUSIONS.

What you've just done, is use a single statistic (KO ratio) to prove a point. I can't speak for others, but that's not what I do. I look at various different statistics. Including performances against not just one common opponent, but every common opponents two boxers being compared, have faced. I also analyze various other stats, such as knockouts against top 10 ranked opponents, average knockout time, knockouts in championship rounds and etc.

Your post doesn't at all disprove the importance of stats to arrive at conclusions. Rather, it only just disproves how unreliable single stats / cherry picked stats are.

When I look at Wladimir Klitschko as a whole statistically, he has the best heavyweight record of all time. That's not even in dispute! You can't OBJECTIVELY dispute that Wladimir Klitschko was indeed the best and number 1 heavyweight in the world for a decade. Since it's impossible because you'd just be arguing against reality. You could make an assumptive claim that Wlad faced weaker opponents than past heavyweight champions and therefore he ranks lower. But that claim would have 0 merit in an objective conversation as that's a purely speculative / subjective statement.

Listen to the dumb kid trying to sound smart.

I can easily prove that Wladimir Klitschko wasn't the best heavyweight in the world for 10 years. Watch me do it.

Here it comes.

Erm, was Vitali Klitschko boxing in those 10 years?

Yes he was. From 2008 to 2012.

So how could anyone claim that Wladimir was the best in the world, when Vitali would kick the crap out of him in an actual fight?

Better luck next time, current scene dummy!

I don't think it's a foregone conclusion that Vitali would beat Wladimir. If they were to have fought I'd have bet on Wlad personally.

If you could remove all emotional attachment from either of them then possibly Vitali wins, but since you can't...I can't imagine he'd "beat up" his little brother.

This is a key factor that people never seem to consider.

Also I'd say Wlad's best wins are significantly better than Vitali's best wins.

[Tuan_Jim]

Most heavyweight champs' best wins are better than Vitali's, and yet eternally people pick him over everyone.

It's fine that you pick Wlad, I don't care, but the prevailing opinion is always that Vitali is the better man.

[gilgamesh]

Most heavyweight champs' best wins are better than Vitali's, and yet eternally people pick him over everyone.

It's fine that you pick Wlad, I don't care, but the prevailing opinion is always that Vitali is the better man.

To some I guess.

[Loki]

I agree Wladimir hit harder, but Vitali beats him everyday. Never been dropped and wasn’t afraid to go to war, seek or destroy. Wladimir was technically better but Vitali was teak tough and mentally strong.

Vitali high KO ratio was due to consistent punishment and he hardly lost a round. He also hit harder before his 4 year hiatus but never had one shot KO power.

Although it difficult to predict, one key fact remains. When Wlad was KOd, Vitali was called in to beat that fighter. I think that speaks volumes.

[gilgamesh]

I agree Wladimir hit harder, but Vitali beats him everyday. Never been dropped and wasn’t afraid to go to war, seek or destroy. Wladimir was technically better but Vitali was teak tough and mentally strong.

Vitali high KO ratio was due to consistent punishment and he hardly lost a round. He also hit harder before his 4 year hiatus but never had one shot KO power.

Although it difficult to predict, one key fact remains. When Wlad was KOd, Vitali was called in to beat that fighter. I think that speaks volumes.

If you could remove all emotional attachment from either of them then possibly Vitali wins, but since you can't...I can't imagine he'd "beat up" his little brother.

This is a key factor that people never seem to consider.

[Luis Fernando12]

A lot of Klit fans when discussing their idols cite statistics (which "don't lie") and avoid detail. The oldest of the old chestnuts is Vitali's reputed punch power, proven by his awesome KO ratio; here follows some detail.

1.

Vitali Klitschko hits Obed Sullivan with everything but can't deck him--and that fight is sandwiched by Grant and Tua both putting Sullivan on the floor, heavily. And yet who has the higher KO percentage?

Vitali: 87%
Tua: 73%
Grant: 65%

So according to the all-important KO percentages, the guy who couldn't put Sullivan down in 10 rounds of one-sided punching is the puncher, whereas the guy who spread eagled him in 30 seconds is considerably less hard hitting. Interesting,

2.

Vitali hits Byrd innumerable times, nothing happens. Prior to that Ike Ibeabuchi absolutely blitzes him, and later Wlad puts him on the floor several times. Who the higher KO percentage?

Vitali: 87%
Wladimir 77%
Ike 75%

So, just to be clear, because "stats don't lie", Vitali is the bigger puncher of the Klits, and although he couldn't hurt Byrd in any way he's a bigger puncher than Ike who put Byrd face down on the canvas.

3.

Vaughn Bean goes down heavily vs Holyfield, gets a long count, years later withstands everything Vitali throws with nary a wobble. Who has the higher KO percentage?

Vitali: 87%
Evander: 51%

So Holyfield, who put Bean down with one punch, according to the stats, can't punch while Vitali--who landed everything on Bean and couldn't so much as shake him up--is a Faces of Death level hitter.

4.

Vitali hits a fat 37 year old Lewis with his best shots, can't deck him, McCall and Rahman put him down heavily. Who can punch, who cannot punch?:

Vitali: 87%
Oliver: 51%
Hasim: 66%

Watch Oliver McCall's big right in round 2 on a prime Lewis, and watch Vitali Klistchko's big right in round 2 on an old Lewis and remember, ignore observable evidence, point to the stats and be assured that Vitali is the puncher here. DO NOT QUESTION ME. THE STATS DO NOT LIE.

5.

Vitali lands everything on an old fat 39 yr old Corrie Sanders, who has a history of chin problems, can't put him down. Hasim Rahman's paltry 66% we already have included above. And Nate Tubbs, who one-punch blitzed Corrie?

Vitali: 87%
Nate: 61%

6.

Sam Peter, down thrice vs Jameel McCline, down vs Wlad, and yet not a single KD by Vitali, who can't miss him. Wlad we have established is the inferior puncher, according to the stats. And McCline?

Vitali: 87%
Jameel: 42%

Jameel McCline, not even half the puncher Vitali is! Even though he knocks guys down Vitali can't, multiple times!

7.

Shannon Briggs, 40 years old, injured, overweight, still withstands 12 rounds of Vitali's punching with not a single knockdown. And yet Lennox Lewis put him down repeatedly. And Jameel McCline, he of the puny 42% KO percentage, also did the trick. What is it with this Jameel McCline bloke? No way can he hurt anyone--look at his kO percentage!!!!

Vitali: 87%
Lennox 73%

8.
Derek Chisora eats everything Vitali can throw, is then nuked by David Haye, catastrophic knockdowns.

Vitali: 87%
Hayemaker 81%

At last we find a man of at least comparable power to the mighty Vitali Klitschko--and he's a former cruiserweight! Make sense of that!

I could go on, with Arreola, Kevin Johnson etc, but I think I've made my point. Stop relying on KO percentages to make arguments. Vitali Klitschko's crazy KO ratio illustrates how meaningless KO ratios are.

(NB. The above can also be done to refute 'but Vit/Wlad was champ XX amount of years, but he won X amount of titles, but he won X amount of rounds, but he made XX amount of defences therefore must be the best ever' type gibberish.)

Just a minor correction to your title: OBJECTIVE PEOPLE IN GENERAL, SHOULD AVOID USING SINGLE STATISTIC AND INSTEAD USE COMPLETE STATISTICS TO ARRIVE AT CONCLUSIONS.

What you've just done, is use a single statistic (KO ratio) to prove a point. I can't speak for others, but that's not what I do. I look at various different statistics. Including performances against not just one common opponent, but every common opponents two boxers being compared, have faced. I also analyze various other stats, such as knockouts against top 10 ranked opponents, average knockout time, knockouts in championship rounds and etc.

Your post doesn't at all disprove the importance of stats to arrive at conclusions. Rather, it only just disproves how unreliable single stats / cherry picked stats are.

When I look at Wladimir Klitschko as a whole statistically, he has the best heavyweight record of all time. That's not even in dispute! You can't OBJECTIVELY dispute that Wladimir Klitschko was indeed the best and number 1 heavyweight in the world for a decade. Since it's impossible because you'd just be arguing against reality. You could make an assumptive claim that Wlad faced weaker opponents than past heavyweight champions and therefore he ranks lower. But that claim would have 0 merit in an objective conversation as that's a purely speculative / subjective statement.

Listen to the dumb kid trying to sound smart.

I can easily prove that Wladimir Klitschko wasn't the best heavyweight in the world for 10 years. Watch me do it.

Here it comes.

Erm, was Vitali Klitschko boxing in those 10 years?

Yes he was. From 2008 to 2012.

So how could anyone claim that Wladimir was the best in the world, when Vitali would kick the crap out of him in an actual fight?

Better luck next time, current scene dummy!

Whether I'm 'dumb' or trying to sound (it's impossible to sound something in a text based discussion where there's no sound to begin with) 'smart' has no relevance to the topic of this thread being discussed. I simply deal with sound and valid logical arguments / reasoning.

Why Wladimir Klitschko is better than Vitali Klitschko:

1) Wladimir Klitschko has more wins against top opposition. Since he has over 20+ title defenses whilst Vitali Klitschko has less than that. And since the objective of boxing is to win, the boxer with most wins is superior. Therefore, Wladimir Klitschko is superior to Vitali Klitschko.

2) Wladimir Klitschko's best opponents are better than Vitali Klitschko's best opponents. Since to be the best, one has to beat the best.

Vitali Klitschko's best wins are:
- Manual Charr: Beaten by Wladimir Klitschko's leftover in Alexander Povetkin far more convincingly by brutal knockout!
- Dereck Chisora: Beaten by Wladimir Klitschko's leftover in Kubrat Pulev.
- Odlanier Solis: Beaten by Wladimir Klitschko's leftover in Tony Thompson.
- Shannon Briggs: Previously beaten by Wladimir Klitschko's leftover in Sultan Ibragimov.
- Kevin Johnson: Beaten by Wladimir Klitschko's leftover in Kubrat Pulev.
- Samuel Peter: Previously beaten by Wladimir Klitshcko himself and by his leftover Kubrat Pulev.

That's pretty much all the proof that is needed!

[squiggy]

I agree Wladimir hit harder, but Vitali beats him everyday. Never been dropped and wasn’t afraid to go to war, seek or destroy. Wladimir was technically better but Vitali was teak tough and mentally strong.

Vitali high KO ratio was due to consistent punishment and he hardly lost a round. He also hit harder before his 4 year hiatus but never had one shot KO power.

Although it difficult to predict, one key fact remains. When Wlad was KOd, Vitali was called in to beat that fighter. I think that speaks volumes.

But that wasn't necessary during the 11 years he went 22-0 at championship level.

[Lackeos]

"Klitschko fans use meaningless stats in debates, and other boxing fans don't."
Seems like an untrue claim, a troll thread, and not relevant to the current scene. Both Klitschkos are over there, in Boxers Of The Past.

[gilgamesh]

Just a minor correction to your title: OBJECTIVE PEOPLE IN GENERAL, SHOULD AVOID USING SINGLE STATISTIC AND INSTEAD USE COMPLETE STATISTICS TO ARRIVE AT CONCLUSIONS.

What you've just done, is use a single statistic (KO ratio) to prove a point. I can't speak for others, but that's not what I do. I look at various different statistics. Including performances against not just one common opponent, but every common opponents two boxers being compared, have faced. I also analyze various other stats, such as knockouts against top 10 ranked opponents, average knockout time, knockouts in championship rounds and etc.

Your post doesn't at all disprove the importance of stats to arrive at conclusions. Rather, it only just disproves how unreliable single stats / cherry picked stats are.

When I look at Wladimir Klitschko as a whole statistically, he has the best heavyweight record of all time. That's not even in dispute! You can't OBJECTIVELY dispute that Wladimir Klitschko was indeed the best and number 1 heavyweight in the world for a decade. Since it's impossible because you'd just be arguing against reality. You could make an assumptive claim that Wlad faced weaker opponents than past heavyweight champions and therefore he ranks lower. But that claim would have 0 merit in an objective conversation as that's a purely speculative / subjective statement.

Listen to the dumb kid trying to sound smart.

I can easily prove that Wladimir Klitschko wasn't the best heavyweight in the world for 10 years. Watch me do it.

Here it comes.

Erm, was Vitali Klitschko boxing in those 10 years?

Yes he was. From 2008 to 2012.

So how could anyone claim that Wladimir was the best in the world, when Vitali would kick the crap out of him in an actual fight?

Better luck next time, current scene dummy!

Whether I'm 'dumb' or trying to sound (it's impossible to sound something in a text based discussion where there's no sound to begin with) 'smart' has no relevance to the topic of this thread being discussed. I simply deal with sound and valid logical arguments / reasoning.

Why Wladimir Klitschko is better than Vitali Klitschko:

1) Wladimir Klitschko has more wins against top opposition. Since he has over 20+ title defenses whilst Vitali Klitschko has less than that. And since the objective of boxing is to win, the boxer with most wins is superior. Therefore, Wladimir Klitschko is superior to Vitali Klitschko.

2) Wladimir Klitschko's best opponents are better than Vitali Klitschko's best opponents. Since to be the best, one has to beat the best.

Vitali Klitschko's best wins are:
- Manual Charr: Beaten by Wladimir Klitschko's leftover in Alexander Povetkin far more convincingly by brutal knockout!
- Dereck Chisora: Beaten by Wladimir Klitschko's leftover in Kubrat Pulev.
- Odlanier Solis: Beaten by Wladimir Klitschko's leftover in Tony Thompson.
- Shannon Briggs: Previously beaten by Wladimir Klitschko's leftover in Sultan Ibragimov.
- Kevin Johnson: Beaten by Wladimir Klitschko's leftover in Kubrat Pulev.
- Samuel Peter: Previously beaten by Wladimir Klitshcko himself and by his leftover Kubrat Pulev.

That's pretty much all the proof that is needed!

His victories over Corrie Sanders, Tomasz Adamek and Chris Arreola are better than a few of those you mentioned. Particularly the first two I mentioned.

[Nightmare Roy]

Posts are way too long in this thread, I'm like trump, give me a paragraph and a pie chart