mickey1975 wrote: ↑25 Jun 2018, 04:11
It’s not, I know a lot of people who go to AJ fights who wouldn’t go to any other show.
What does that mean? I know people who'd go to watch Man Utd but wouldn't watch Barnet. I don't sit there lying to myself that anyone who watches the former isn't a football fan.
Without breakout stars who get people interested the sport dies.
mickey1975 wrote: ↑25 Jun 2018, 04:11
It’s not, I know a lot of people who go to AJ fights who wouldn’t go to any other show.
What does that mean? I know people who'd go to watch Man Utd but wouldn't watch Barnet. I don't sit there lying to myself that anyone who watches the former isn't a football fan.
Without breakout stars who get people interested the sport dies.
mickey1975 wrote: ↑25 Jun 2018, 04:11
It’s not, I know a lot of people who go to AJ fights who wouldn’t go to any other show.
What does that mean? I know people who'd go to watch Man Utd but wouldn't watch Barnet. I don't sit there lying to myself that anyone who watches the former isn't a football fan.
Without breakout stars who get people interested the sport dies.
I wouldn’t consider them football fans.
What are they then?
You can end up bogged down in arguments like this, but playing the game Mick is playing only leaves you looking a bit sad and bitter. Some old bloke at Wolverhampton on a Tuesday night can moan about the crowds at Cheltenham not being racing fans. The fella watching go karts at a track can cry on about people who only ever go to the British Grand Prix not being motorsport fans. And Mick can cry on about Joshua not having any actual boxing fans and all the real ones are watching amateurs with him in a gym with a hundred people present.
That's fine, but it doesn't really get you very far, and it absolutely stinks of jealousy.
What does that mean? I know people who'd go to watch Man Utd but wouldn't watch Barnet. I don't sit there lying to myself that anyone who watches the former isn't a football fan.
Without breakout stars who get people interested the sport dies.
I wouldn’t consider them football fans.
What are they then?
You can end up bogged down in arguments like this, but playing the game Mick is playing only leaves you looking a bit sad and bitter. Some old bloke at Wolverhampton on a Tuesday night can moan about the crowds at Cheltenham not being racing fans. The fella watching go karts at a track can cry on about people who only ever go to the British Grand Prix not being motorsport fans. And Mick can cry on about Joshua not having any actual boxing fans and all the real ones are watching amateurs with him in a gym with a hundred people present.
That's fine, but it doesn't really get you very far, and it absolutely stinks of jealousy.
Not really interested in how far it gets anyone tbh. But people who only watch big football games are not football fans. People who only watch big boxing events are not boxing fans. And so on. No-one disputes they are vital revenue streams, but the fact remains they are casual fans rather than proper fans.
thepocketrocket wrote: ↑25 Jun 2018, 06:37
Yeah, I remember casuals seriously debating whether Naz could beat Mike Tyson...
Ahhh casuals,sat through many tea breaks listening to why Fury is such a massive threat to Wilder and Joshua because ' he's a big lad' and how McGregor was going to beat Mayweather because up close McGregor would 'put the knee in' or 'break his arm when the refs not looking'
thepocketrocket wrote: ↑25 Jun 2018, 06:37
Yeah, I remember casuals seriously debating whether Naz could beat Mike Tyson...
Ahhh casuals,sat through many tea breaks listening to why Fury is such a massive threat to Wilder and Joshua because ' he's a big lad' and how McGregor was going to beat Mayweather because up close McGregor would 'put the knee in' or 'break his arm when the refs not looking'
thepocketrocket wrote: ↑25 Jun 2018, 06:37
Yeah, I remember casuals seriously debating whether Naz could beat Mike Tyson...
Ahhh casuals,sat through many tea breaks listening to why Fury is such a massive threat to Wilder and Joshua because ' he's a big lad' and how McGregor was going to beat Mayweather because up close McGregor would 'put the knee in' or 'break his arm when the refs not looking'
Not to mention McGregor’s unorthodox angles which Floyd would never have encountered before
thepocketrocket wrote: ↑25 Jun 2018, 06:37
Yeah, I remember casuals seriously debating whether Naz could beat Mike Tyson...
Ahhh casuals,sat through many tea breaks listening to why Fury is such a massive threat to Wilder and Joshua because ' he's a big lad' and how McGregor was going to beat Mayweather because up close McGregor would 'put the knee in' or 'break his arm when the refs not looking'
I didn’t know you were mates with Dirk.
I'm not,in fact the stuff between you and him gets right on my tits
mickey1975 wrote: ↑25 Jun 2018, 06:36
Man United have real fans mostly pushed out by the tourists. I’ve been, and to Barnet, funnily enough!
Yeah but real fans wouldn’t only watch their chosen team, that’s my point. Doesn’t matter who they support. A proper football fan would watch any competitive game, regardless of who was playing.
mickey1975 wrote: ↑25 Jun 2018, 04:15
Am numbers were huge, they’ve increased since Audley but still 1,000’s less carded boxers. That’s the true test. Same with number of pro boxers. Dirk, you ARE a troll and literally obsessed with AJ! I say exactly the same things about Warrington fans by the way.
Do you have any stats that show there are 1,000s fewer carded boxers than the 80s?
What do people think of the volume of pro shows compared with 20/30 years ago? For me there haven’t been as many as there are no since I can remember (mid-late 90s).
banjo wrote: ↑25 Jun 2018, 07:18
Without casuals boxing would be on its arse more than it is.
Yeah - I really don’t get the argument about people going to AJ’s or whoevers fight but they shouldn’t be counted as they’re not proper fans.
I’ve got mates who I go to small hall shows with and another set who just want to go to the big fights. They’re money is worth the same as mine and some of them have started watching more boxing on TV as a result of going to the big shows.
I’m an Everton fan and used to have a season ticket when I lived in that part of the world but I rarely go to a game now. I don’t go out of my way to watch other games (particularly in the lower leagues/overseas) but I watch every Everton game when they’re on TV or listen to them on the radio. Does that mean I’m not a football fan?
banjo wrote: ↑25 Jun 2018, 07:18
Without casuals boxing would be on its arse more than it is.
Yeah - I really don’t get the argument about people going to AJ’s or whoevers fight but they shouldn’t be counted as they’re not proper fans.
I’ve got mates who I go to small hall shows with and another set who just want to go to the big fights. They’re money is worth the same as mine and some of them have started watching more boxing on TV as a result of going to the big shows.
I’m an Everton fan and used to have a season ticket when I lived in that part of the world but I rarely go to a game now. I don’t go out of my way to watch other games (particularly in the lower leagues/overseas) but I watch every Everton game when they’re on TV or listen to them on the radio. Does that mean I’m not a football fan?
Yes, it means you’re an Everton fan, not a football fan. Huge difference.
banjo wrote: ↑25 Jun 2018, 07:18
Without casuals boxing would be on its arse more than it is.
Yeah - I really don’t get the argument about people going to AJ’s or whoevers fight but they shouldn’t be counted as they’re not proper fans.
I’ve got mates who I go to small hall shows with and another set who just want to go to the big fights. They’re money is worth the same as mine and some of them have started watching more boxing on TV as a result of going to the big shows.
I’m an Everton fan and used to have a season ticket when I lived in that part of the world but I rarely go to a game now. I don’t go out of my way to watch other games (particularly in the lower leagues/overseas) but I watch every Everton game when they’re on TV or listen to them on the radio. Does that mean I’m not a football fan?
Yes, it means you’re an Everton fan, not a football fan. Huge difference.
Is it a huge difference?! So if someone asked me whether I’m a football fan I should say no?! I go and watch my local non-league team every couple of months with my dad, watch my nephew play for his team when I can and I’ve seen most of the World Cup games on TV when I’ve been home.
banjo wrote: ↑25 Jun 2018, 07:18
Without casuals boxing would be on its arse more than it is.
Yeah - I really don’t get the argument about people going to AJ’s or whoevers fight but they shouldn’t be counted as they’re not proper fans.
I’ve got mates who I go to small hall shows with and another set who just want to go to the big fights. They’re money is worth the same as mine and some of them have started watching more boxing on TV as a result of going to the big shows.
I’m an Everton fan and used to have a season ticket when I lived in that part of the world but I rarely go to a game now. I don’t go out of my way to watch other games (particularly in the lower leagues/overseas) but I watch every Everton game when they’re on TV or listen to them on the radio. Does that mean I’m not a football fan?
Yes, it means you’re an Everton fan, not a football fan. Huge difference.
Doesn't really make any difference. I'm sure someone out there goes to boxing a hundred times more often than you; it doesn't mean you're not a boxing fan.
The argument was ridiculous to start with. Boxing clear isn't as popular in the USA as it was twenty years ago, and the same evidence would suggest it'a booming here. Saying it's not because the fighters who generate millions of PPV buys and sell out stadiums aren't actually attracting boxing fans is farcical.
Yeah - I really don’t get the argument about people going to AJ’s or whoevers fight but they shouldn’t be counted as they’re not proper fans.
I’ve got mates who I go to small hall shows with and another set who just want to go to the big fights. They’re money is worth the same as mine and some of them have started watching more boxing on TV as a result of going to the big shows.
I’m an Everton fan and used to have a season ticket when I lived in that part of the world but I rarely go to a game now. I don’t go out of my way to watch other games (particularly in the lower leagues/overseas) but I watch every Everton game when they’re on TV or listen to them on the radio. Does that mean I’m not a football fan?
Yes, it means you’re an Everton fan, not a football fan. Huge difference.
Is it a huge difference?! So if someone asked me whether I’m a football fan I should say no?! I go and watch my local non-league team every couple of months with my dad, watch my nephew play for his team when I can and I’ve seen most of the World Cup games on TV when I’ve been home.
Yeah it is a huge difference, but football is primarily a casual’s sport anyway. Most people aren’t really hardcore football fans.
John wrote: ↑24 Jun 2018, 17:09
Usually Naz's changing room was one big party, boombox in the corner and loads of people gyrating around. Always before a fight I would go in and sort of wish him luck, I would say the same thing "I know your going to win and I hope you enjoy yourself". The Barrera fight I went down maybe 15 mins before he had to be in the ring. The room was silent, Naz was sat in the corner in an armchair and only Nabeel (his brother) was in there with him. Nabeel looked at me and said "you talk to him John" and left the room. Naz hadn't warmed up, he hadn't even got his gloves on. I tried to enthuse him but he was completely flat, not depressed just bored to tears by it all. A few minutes later a floor manger for HBO came into the room. She was panicking like mad, "we are live in 96 countries in ten minutes and he hasn't even gloved up yet", she looked at me, I just shrugged. I can't remember much after that but somehow we cajoled him into putting on his gloves and got him ringside. After the fight I was shell-shocked, it had never occurred to me that he could ever lose. In the hotel later Naz saw me and came over, he said "come on, cheer up, we are all on holiday now".
Really interesting post. I was at that fight and this post suggests to me that Hamed just wasn't confident in being able to beat MAB at this point, otherwise he wouldn't have been able to wait to get his hands on him and prove he was as good as he said he was. After he beat Sanchez he was very brash, 'I want Barrera next, I'm going to knock him out.' But his camp looked very poor against Barrera and I guess he realised he was no longer the fighter he had been.
I loved watching Naz but to me his career is tarnished by the fact that he never came back. I can't think of another top fighter who just disappeared after a loss the way Hamed did, with so much to prove.
John wrote: ↑24 Jun 2018, 17:09
Usually Naz's changing room was one big party, boombox in the corner and loads of people gyrating around. Always before a fight I would go in and sort of wish him luck, I would say the same thing "I know your going to win and I hope you enjoy yourself". The Barrera fight I went down maybe 15 mins before he had to be in the ring. The room was silent, Naz was sat in the corner in an armchair and only Nabeel (his brother) was in there with him. Nabeel looked at me and said "you talk to him John" and left the room. Naz hadn't warmed up, he hadn't even got his gloves on. I tried to enthuse him but he was completely flat, not depressed just bored to tears by it all. A few minutes later a floor manger for HBO came into the room. She was panicking like mad, "we are live in 96 countries in ten minutes and he hasn't even gloved up yet", she looked at me, I just shrugged. I can't remember much after that but somehow we cajoled him into putting on his gloves and got him ringside. After the fight I was shell-shocked, it had never occurred to me that he could ever lose. In the hotel later Naz saw me and came over, he said "come on, cheer up, we are all on holiday now".
Really interesting post. I was at that fight and this post suggests to me that Hamed just wasn't confident in being able to beat MAB at this point, otherwise he wouldn't have been able to wait to get his hands on him and prove he was as good as he said he was. After he beat Sanchez he was very brash, 'I want Barrera next, I'm going to knock him out.' But his camp looked very poor against Barrera and I guess he realised he was no longer the fighter he had been.
I loved watching Naz but to me his career is tarnished by the fact that he never came back. I can't think of another top fighter who just disappeared after a loss the way Hamed did, with so much to prove.
He boxed Manuel Calvo a year later in a lacklustre points win before retiring for good.
Yes, that was dismal. I meant in the sense he didn't test himself again, didn't announce his retirement, just faded away (not literally of course, given he doubled in size!).
Matt W wrote: ↑25 Jun 2018, 11:52
Yes, that was dismal. I meant in the sense he didn't test himself again, didn't announce his retirement, just faded away (not literally of course, given he doubled in size!).
There was a really good article in Boxing News which said that Hamed always relied on reflexes. By the time he got to Calvo his reflexes were fading so he had to be more safety conscious. He could still have been successful but it alienated and would continue to alienate the casuals who had grown up seeing different version of him. Hence the booing.
John wrote: ↑24 Jun 2018, 17:09
Usually Naz's changing room was one big party, boombox in the corner and loads of people gyrating around. Always before a fight I would go in and sort of wish him luck, I would say the same thing "I know your going to win and I hope you enjoy yourself". The Barrera fight I went down maybe 15 mins before he had to be in the ring. The room was silent, Naz was sat in the corner in an armchair and only Nabeel (his brother) was in there with him. Nabeel looked at me and said "you talk to him John" and left the room. Naz hadn't warmed up, he hadn't even got his gloves on. I tried to enthuse him but he was completely flat, not depressed just bored to tears by it all. A few minutes later a floor manger for HBO came into the room. She was panicking like mad, "we are live in 96 countries in ten minutes and he hasn't even gloved up yet", she looked at me, I just shrugged. I can't remember much after that but somehow we cajoled him into putting on his gloves and got him ringside. After the fight I was shell-shocked, it had never occurred to me that he could ever lose. In the hotel later Naz saw me and came over, he said "come on, cheer up, we are all on holiday now".
Cheers John.
I had always had Barrera a slight favourite over Naz but it's brilliant to get your insight.
Sounds like he was just done. He'd been full at it since a young young age
