Usyk vs. Gassiev To Land in Moscow on July 21.

[Counter-puncher]

I think Usyk would have a good shot at beating Parker

[candyslim]

If he is able to beat Gassiev, he is CW No. 2 ever. Holyfield is No. 1, of course.

Just imagine if Usyk were as impressive a puncher as he undoubtedly is, a boxer. I think Eddie would be worried even if AJ wasn't.

My honest opinion regarding Usyk at HW in the near future : He would defeat all modern day HWs except Joshua, Wilder and Fury. It is too late for Povetkin and Ortiz, and too early for Dubois and Hrgović.

He has yet to prove it but I believe Joyce will show himself to be mid-top ten quality before long. Given how he was thoroughly outclassed by Usyk yet I continue to rate him very highly, shows how highly I rate Usyk.

Joshua is the only heavyweight I would confidently predict to beat him, unless Tyson Fury can demonstrate he's back to what he used to be. I think I'd rate Miller's chances as highly as Wilder's - they may be just too big, in fact I can envisage Usyk coping better with Wilder unless Deontay were to keep on his bicycle. Agree too late for Ortiz and Povetkin, too soon for Hrgovic, not sure Dubois will pass quality control.

[DrDuke]

Right for the moment it seems, that Usyk can really be a big player at the HWs. He's small by the modern standards, but not too small. He's actually has the same height as Povetkin. His skillset is great, he probably can circle around such big guys like Miller or Breazeale and score points. I also see Joshua, Wilder and Fury as the worst match-ups for him. Those aren't just big, they're special. Well, Fury curretly isn't fit, yeah. Wilder is too awkward, he isn't too technical, but moves well and times a punch great. So it won't be too easy for Usyk to find openings and be always ready for the counters. Joshua may be less creative, than Usyk, but his skillset is solid, so he's a really tough call.

[candyslim]

I could see Usyk using his skills to totally befuddle the technically limited Wilder, but then Wilder is far more mobile, faster, and harder hitting than the similarly huge Joyce. Usyk has a good chin but is anyone's chin truly Wilder-proof?

I think Deontay would need to fight smart, keep on the back foot, keeping Usyk on the end of the jab, using it to keep Usyk from efficiently watching for the right hand.

Miller would be swarming Usyk, nullifying his superior skills with punches in bunches, and using his bulk to bully Usyk. Usyk would not be able to deter Miller and back him up. Both these American heavyweights are a massive challenge for Usyk but I can see the possibility of him beating Wilder even if it's not the most likely outcome, but I don't see how he defeats Miller.

[Heretic]

If guys like Szpilka and Washington were able to outbox Wilder for long time before getting caught I don't think that Wilder would catch Usyk at all.

Wilders big assets are reach, speed and power. Against Usyk he would not have that speed advantage that he is accustomed to have. Power means nothing if you can't land.

Miller would be the harder opponent in my eyes. Hes style is all wrong for Usyk.

[Counter-puncher]

I think Deontay would need to fight smart, keep on the back foot, keeping Usyk on the end of the jab, using it to keep Usyk from efficiently watching for the right hand.
.

You have some really strange takes on fights at times- your advice for Wilder, who is clearly a less skillful boxer than Usyk would be.... to try and box him on the back foot?

you're asking him to do something he's shown almost no propensity towards whilst fighting opponents many levels below Usyk in skill, against by far the most skillful opponent of his career... you're asking him to take his main (only) advantage of power, and totally nullify it by sitting on the back foot (when has Wilder ever got power off the back foot and without taking a big lunging step in?).... plus you're asking him to put on a jabbing and moving masterclass, when his footwork sucks and he's up against someone with far better footwork and a far better jab....

dude your fightplan absolutely sucks, no offence.

[boxing_rocks]

Funny how people are matching Usyk with top HWs when he can still be stopped by his toughest opponent at CW.

[Counter-puncher]

Funny how people are matching Usyk with top HWs when he can still be stopped by his toughest opponent at CW.

He may be, yes, I couldn't discount that as a possibility, I'd say that says more about the challenge Gassiev poses than anything.

It's not that surprising people think about Usyk at heavyweight. He's clearly a big boy for cruiser and it wouldn't surprise me if he weighed at least 220-25lbs as a heavyweight. I'd guess even at cruiser he must weigh nearly 220 in the ring already. So the likes of Parker, Wilder, even say Hughie Fury, aren't that much heavier than him even when he fights as a cruiserweight. Plus again take Parker or Fury, neaither of them hit so hard that you could imagine them intimidating Usyk with their power.

[candyslim]

I think Deontay would need to fight smart, keep on the back foot, keeping Usyk on the end of the jab, using it to keep Usyk from efficiently watching for the right hand.
.

You have some really strange takes on fights at times- your advice for Wilder, who is clearly a less skillful boxer than Usyk would be.... to try and box him on the back foot?

you're asking him to do something he's shown almost no propensity towards whilst fighting opponents many levels below Usyk in skill, against by far the most skillful opponent of his career... you're asking him to take his main (only) advantage of power, and totally nullify it by sitting on the back foot (when has Wilder ever got power off the back foot and without taking a big lunging step in?).... plus you're asking him to put on a jabbing and moving masterclass, when his footwork sucks and he's up against someone with far better footwork and a far better jab....

dude your fightplan absolutely sucks, no offence.

No offence taken although it's always a good idea to attack the argument rather than its proponent. I don't claim to be the new Emmanuel Steward but if you consider what I've said you'll see that I envisage Miller to be the more difficult opponent for Usyk. It's not just the style but the combination of style and bulk.

I did say I could see one scenario with Usyk completely bamboozling Wilder largely for the reasons you mentioned. There are fighters whose style is better suited to troubling Usyk than Wilder's but Wilder is what he is and the game plan has to be built around his flaws and attributes. I agree he isn't great boxing on the retreat but he made a decent fist of it in the first Stiverne fight and against Duhaupas and Ortiz. Wilder's advantage (besides power obviously) is in height and reach. He needs to make the most of it, and as ungainly as he can be, he does have mobility. Thankfully from his point of view Usyk doesn't hit hard enough to severely punish any poor footwork, balance issues, mistakes he might make

My gameplan is not ideal but what would you advise? Giving up his long range advantage to stand with Usyk with a view to overpowering him. If he tries that while Usyk is fresh he'll be hard pressed to land a glove on him. Deontay will exhaust himself throwing hail-marys at thin air.

If you think I'm talking shite I welcome you pulling me up, but what exactly are you proposing as an alternative? Sometimes the best option is the least-worse option.

Feel free to chuck in your two penn'orth people.

[Counter-puncher]

I think Deontay would need to fight smart, keep on the back foot, keeping Usyk on the end of the jab, using it to keep Usyk from efficiently watching for the right hand.
.

You have some really strange takes on fights at times- your advice for Wilder, who is clearly a less skillful boxer than Usyk would be.... to try and box him on the back foot?

you're asking him to do something he's shown almost no propensity towards whilst fighting opponents many levels below Usyk in skill, against by far the most skillful opponent of his career... you're asking him to take his main (only) advantage of power, and totally nullify it by sitting on the back foot (when has Wilder ever got power off the back foot and without taking a big lunging step in?).... plus you're asking him to put on a jabbing and moving masterclass, when his footwork sucks and he's up against someone with far better footwork and a far better jab....

dude your fightplan absolutely sucks, no offence.

My gameplan is not ideal but what would you advise? Giving up his long range advantage to stand with Usyk with a view to overpowering him.

Aw come on don't get so precious, 'attacking its proponent' I just said the plan sucks, and I spent a lot more time on the long paragraph explaining why it sucks than I spent 'attacking' anyone, which, what, 'you have strange takes on fights sometimes', this is an attack? Anyways.

Boxing on the front foot and keeping distance aren't mutually exclusive, is the mistake I think you make.... boxing on the front foot doesn't automatically mean giving up a reach advantage, at all. think Tommy Hearns for example. Or Kovalev. . Like you say Usyk as not a huge puncher isn't the biggest risk to KO wilder with a counter, so Wilder therefore has much more lose by letting him get on the front foot and set his own rhythm, than he has in getting on the front foot, maybe eating counters but probably not getting wrecked by them, and at least letting his hands go and giving himself a chance. Usyk is not a guy who counters much if you let your hands go at him, and it's not unknown for him to guard up and give a target when he's under pressure.

Whatever moderate success Wilder has had on the back foot, it's been against boxers both much less skilled and much less mobile than Usyk.

[boxing_rocks]

Funny how people are matching Usyk with top HWs when he can still be stopped by his toughest opponent at CW.

He may be, yes, I couldn't discount that as a possibility, I'd say that says more about the challenge Gassiev poses than anything.

It's not that surprising people think about Usyk at heavyweight. He's clearly a big boy for cruiser and it wouldn't surprise me if he weighed at least 220-25lbs as a heavyweight. I'd guess even at cruiser he must weigh nearly 220 in the ring already. So the likes of Parker, Wilder, even say Hughie Fury, aren't that much heavier than him even when he fights as a cruiserweight. Plus again take Parker or Fury, neaither of them hit so hard that you could imagine them intimidating Usyk with their power.

Usyk doesn't even have much power at CW, so he will be the one who can't intimidate any HW with his power. Funny to see Wilder in the list of people who won't intimidate him. If anything, Wilder has a huge power.

[candyslim]

Just an observation I wasn't making an issue of it. I already said no offence taken and I meant it. I'm more offended at being called precious (just kidding - no comment necessary)

I think it would be crucial to Wilder to maintain distance. Usyk would be pressuring Wilder and trying to close the range meaning Wilder has to give ground or forfeit the advantage in height and reach. If both fighters are on the front foot then it will be a close quarters fight where Wilder's long arms, and extra 4" in height become a disadvantage. Usyk uses his skills to nullify Wilder's leverage and power, and boxes the bejesus out of him. Wilder might stand his ground and back up some pressure fighters but Usyk is quality and will simply block and slip his way in.

That's why I say Wilder has to box on the back foot. Of course that doesn't mean Wilder shouldn't interrupt his retreat, set himself and throw hard shots from time to time, I noticed against Ortiz his transition, while it'll never be brilliant, does show considerable improvement.

[Counter-puncher]

Funny how people are matching Usyk with top HWs when he can still be stopped by his toughest opponent at CW.

He may be, yes, I couldn't discount that as a possibility, I'd say that says more about the challenge Gassiev poses than anything.

It's not that surprising people think about Usyk at heavyweight. He's clearly a big boy for cruiser and it wouldn't surprise me if he weighed at least 220-25lbs as a heavyweight. I'd guess even at cruiser he must weigh nearly 220 in the ring already. So the likes of Parker, Wilder, even say Hughie Fury, aren't that much heavier than him even when he fights as a cruiserweight. Plus again take Parker or Fury, neaither of them hit so hard that you could imagine them intimidating Usyk with their power.

Usyk doesn't even have much power at CW, so he will be the one who can't intimidate any HW with his power. Funny to see Wilder in the list of people who won't intimidate him. If anything, Wilder has a huge power.

I said Fury and Parker wouldn't intimidate Usyk with their power

[jamamb]

dd uzzy steal boxing_rocks sweet roll?