Marciano 49-0?

[BrocktonBlockbuster49]

rocky never lost a pro fight. all his losses were amatuer losses, its been proven. nat fleischer after rocky retired searched in depth on rocky's record to see if he really was 49-0 and he found all of rocky's losses were amatuer losses.



rocky fought his first pro fight in 1947 against lee epperson under the name rocky mack. rocky WON THE FIGHT.








by B. R. Bearden

27.12 - A rumor I've seen come up before, and most recently on the Eastside Forum, is that Rocky Marciano, the only heavyweight champion to retire undefeated, actually lost an early pro fight under the name of Rocky Mack. The legend builders covered up this obscure match, so the story always goes, in order to preserve the Rock with a perfect 49-0 record. How they had the foresight to gloss over this loss early in his career before it was known by anyone that he'd go undefeated, much less become heavyweight champion, is never discussed.

However, like all good legends, there is a basis in fact. It is true that Rocky fought one pro fight as Rocky Mack. It's even true that he returned to the amateur ranks after the single pro fight. What's not true is that he lost as Rocky Mack. He did, however, lose after his first pro fight. In fact, he lost twice.

Here's the true story of the early days of the fighter who would become a legend:

While home on furlough from the Army in April, 1946, Rocky learned of a local fight club offering money for amateur bouts. A friend of his talked him into giving it a shot and for $30 he signed up. He was assured he'd be put in with someone of his level of experience, but the night of the amateur boxing show he was informed the only heavyweight available for him to fight was Henry Lester. While this was Rocky's first fight, Lester was very experienced, having been a Golden Gloves Champion three years in a row and runner-up in the New England Amateur Championships in 1945. Shrugging off the one-sided nature of the bout, Rocky elected to fight anyway.

Not only was Marciano not a trained boxer, he was also smoking heavily and much overweight. The mismatch showed a slow, bloated, Rocky wheezing his way around the ring, trying to land his wild punches against a polished fighter. Driven against the ropes, completely done in, Rocky lifted a knee in protection as Lester pummeled him. He caught Lester in the stomach, resulting in a disqualification. A knee to the belly doesn't sound bad enough to some folk, so it was reported that he'd kneed Lester in the groin. (Untrue, as Lester's son himself told me the knee was to the stomach).

Though a humiliating loss for the young Italian-American, Rocky learned a valuable lesson. As he told his younger brother, "I learned something from this fight. if I ever get into the ring again, you can bet I won't be out of condition."

After his furlough ended, Marciano decided to try this boxing thing out again. He signed up for the Amateur Athletic Union (AAU) Championship Tournament in Portland, Oregon in August, 1946. Rocky knocked out his first opponent, got a bye on the second fight, and knocked out his third opponent. The men scheduled to face him in his 4th and 5th fights refused to fight the wild, powerful brawler, putting Rocky into the finals. Unknown to them, Marciano had severely dislocated a knuckle in his left hand. Refusing to drop out of the tournament, Rocky stepped into the ring to face the other top fighter of the event, Joe DeAngelis, who won by decision. Rocky spent six week in the hospital, his hand in traction, dispelling any doubts that he was only fighting DeAngelis one handed. It was his second loss as an amateur.

When he got out of the Army the following year, Rocky took a local fight to make a few bucks. This time it would count as a pro fight, and be reported in the Brockton papers. His mother had forbid him to fight, so to keep her from finding out, Marciano signed up as Rocky Mack. His opponent was Lee Eperson and in the third round Eperson became the first of 43 KO victims for the Brockton Blockbuster. The date was March 17th, 1947. (He wasn't yet Rocky Marciano. That name would come about when he signed with Al Weil in 1948, who found his family name of Marchegiano too hard to pronounce)

Finding the pay low for the effort involved, Rocky decided to try his hand at another sport before committing to boxing. Marciano and a couple of friends went down to North Carolina for a tryout with the Chicago Cub's farm team. During the tryouts he threw out his arm and was cut, even though he'd shown noticeable ability at hitting the long ball.

Frustrated at his failed baseball bid, Marciano entered the Golden Gloves Tournament in Lowell, Massachusetts, in January, 1948. He scored 3 KO's in a row. The 3rd was against a good fighter named Charlie Mortimer who had a record of 12-0, and two first round KO's of his own in the tournament before facing Rocky.

After his strong showing in the New England Golden Gloves Rocky was sent to New York as the New England representative for the Golden Gloves All-East Coast Championships. This was in March, 1948. His first fight was against a very good fighter named Coley Wallace, who had a record of 17-0 with 17 KO's. Rocky was the aggressor throughout the fight and landed all the punishing blows, but the judges announced Wallace as the winner. The fans booed and threw bottles and programs into the ring. Rocky would always say he was cheated in this fight, and would determine to take the matter out of the hands of judges by knocking out future opponents.

Also in 1948 Rocky lost an amateur fight to a six-foot-plus heavyweight named Bob Girard. Again Rocky's hand had been injured in an earlier fight and again he fought one handed. Girard was able to outbox the brawler and win a decision. He was modest about his victory over the future heavyweight champion:

"How do you think I beat Rocky? I beat him because it was three rounds. There were a hundred guys who might have stayed three rounds with The Rock. But no man in the world was gonna beat Rocky in fifteen rounds; not Dempsey, not Ali, not anybody. I knew he was going to be champ. I don't think anybody could hurt Rocky. Every time he hit you, you saw a flash of light. You either grabbed him or you moved back, because if he hits you twice you're gone."

It was Rocky's 4th loss as an amateur, and the last time he would ever lose a fight in his life.

Later in 1948 Rocky knocked out Joe Sidlaskis in one round, then went into the AAU Olympic tryouts in Boston. In his first bout Rocky knocked out Fred Fischera, but in doing so again damaged his knuckle. Still unwilling to quit for any reason he insisted on fighting his next fight, telling his friend and handler, Allie Columbo, to leave the bandages on between fights. He knew his hand would swell too much to get into the gloves if the removed the bandages.

Fighting right handed only, Rocky hammered his opponent, George McGinnis. He knocked McGinnis down twice in the third round and took the AAU Heavyweight Championship. But, any hopes of going on to the Olympics were shattered when Rocky's hand was examined by a doctor after the fight. Not only was the knuckle on his thumb out of place, but the thumb itself was broken. By the time it healed, the Olympic team was already chosen and Marciano missed a chance to become the first Gold Medalist to become heavyweight champion.

Marciano's amateur career was a haphazard affair with no professional guidance. He didn't have a gym to train in, nor anyone to train him other than his childhood friend Allie Columbo. In fact, he didn't have a professional trainer until his 5th pro fight, when Charlie Goldman was assigned to train him under the management of Al Weil. He simply signed up to fight in major tournaments and did surprising well against men who were fighting very often as amateurs. He had 12 fights and lost 4, two because of hand injuries, once for disqualification, and one on a questionable decision.

Long after he became famous as heavyweight champion, fight fans from the New England area confused some of his amateur losses with his pro fights, going so far as to insist that he'd been beaten under the name of Rocky Mack. The confusion is understandable, considering how he mixed in that single pro fight under the name of Mack with his amateur fights. But the record is clear on who he fought as Rocky Mack and who won the fight. Nat Fleischer investigated the fight record of Marciano and had no doubt that all his pro fights were on record and all were victories. Likewise, the losses he suffered as an amateur were all in sanctioned amateur tournaments, dispelling any suspicion that they were really pro fights.

Only a couple years ago Ring magazine did an article about Marciano with some of the men he fought, including Coley Wallace, who made clear again that their match was an amateur bout.

Finally, here is what I've been able to piece together of Marciano's amateur record:

1. April 15, 1946 Henry Lester DQ

AAU Championship Tournament
Portland, Oregon August, 1946

2. unknown KO 1
3. unknown KO 1
4. Joe DeAngelis L 3 August 23, 1946

Golden Gloves Tournament
Lowell, Massachusetts January 1948

5 unknown KO 1
6 unknown KO 1
7 Charlie Mortimer KO 1

Golden Gloves All-East Coast Championships
New York, New York March 1948

8. Coley Wallace L 3 March 1948

9. Bob Girard L 3
10. Joe Sidlaskis KO 1

AAU Olympic tryouts in Boston
11. Fred Fischera KO
12. George McGinnis W 3

[BoxBuzz]

I fear that Livingstone Coles research and Rocky50 Project's work could create a chasm at BoxRec. Our happy family could be torn asunder by the implications. Much as the DaVinci code has done to the church.

I ask that both sides stand down before the consequences are felt and a rebellion complete with a counter insurgency is created. Some Icons should not be investigated.

We should not disturb what has always been taken on faith. Lest we reap the bitter harvest.

[bill.lockhart]

I was wpndering how these series of events transpired? If Rocky defeated Epperson as a pro, under the name Rocky Mack, how is it he would have been able to enter the amateur shows you speak of, after turning pro ? I realize this was 60 years ago, but it is difficult to believe.

[BrocktonBlockbuster49]

I was wpndering how these series of events transpired? If Rocky defeated Epperson as a pro, under the name Rocky Mack, how is it he would have been able to enter the amateur shows you speak of, after turning pro ? I realize this was 60 years ago, but it is difficult to believe.

its simple...................cause marciano fought a pro fight under the name rocky mack then entered the amatuers under the name rocky marciano, so they didnt know rocky had already fought as a pro because he fought pro under a DIFFERENT NAME than he did in the amatuers. finally they found out marciano had already fought pro and stripped marciano of his amatuer status.



look no matter what you guys say this thread is irrelevant. ITS A FACT that marciano is 49-0. there is hard evidence that proves it.


hes not 50-0 like rockyproject says, and hes not 49-1 like ridiciculous posters try imply, hes 49-0

[BoxBuzz]

http://members.aol.com/aliasmadrona/ima ... 20zone.jpg


I propose he was 52- 3 - 1 and aims to prove it. However his seven additional fights were in a nebulous dream like state which took place in another dimension of site and sound. Where Rod Serling does the announcing.... Where fighters from all points in the universe converge to settle the great hash. Rocky did well in scoring 3-3- 1

He lost in his first three outings and was about to be eliminated when he was wildcarded in and surprised everyone by beating the other eventual finalist. Rocky always did well in return matches and proceeded to win the next two. Leading him to once again facing the greatest fighter of space and time. Mr Sandman.......whom he managed to draw with and share the Universal title with.

That's the documented truth straight from the Akashic Record.....Deal with it.

[Expug]

http://members.aol.com/aliasmadrona/ima ... 20zone.jpg


I propose he was 52- 3 - 1 and aims to prove it. However his seven additional fights were in a nebulous dream like state which took place in another dimension of site and sound. Where Rod Serling does the announcing.... Where fighters from all points in the universe converge to settle the great hash. Rocky did well in scoring 3-3- 1

He lost in his first three outings and was about to be eliminated when he was wildcarded in and surprised everyone by beating the other eventual finalist. Rocky always did well in return matches and proceeded to win the next two. Leading him to once again facing the greatest fighter of space and time. Mr Sandman.......whom he managed to draw with and share the Universal title with.

That's the documented truth straight from the Akashic Record.....Deal with it.

Rod Serling was here last week too I think when you mentioned Joe Savage the "musician" Buzz.

[BoxBuzz]

Now that story was even stranger and that happened in a strange land called the US of A.

[Expug]

Remember Wendy O williams? The guy you were mentioning seemed even more insane.

[BoxBuzz]

Remember Wendy O williams? The guy you were mentioning seemed even more insane.

Cut from the same cloth, more people knew about Wendy William but I think Joe made just as much money.

[tigerpomfret]

Let`s get it right...forget the 49 bull,rock won the title against a old man,defended it 6 times,YES 6 times,against over the top heavies and a fat middle/crusire,BIG DEAL.What`s all the hype ????

[stick_n_move]

Let`s get it right...forget the 49 bull,rock won the title against a old man,defended it 6 times,YES 6 times,against over the top heavies and a fat middle/crusire,BIG DEAL.What`s all the hype ????

what the hell?! so anybody with a sorry agenda can sit behind a computer and spout ignorant nonsense. lets look at it with more objecivty and say that with his many different weaknesses and strikes against him:

short arms
12 fights of ameture experience
short for a heavywehgt
late start at boxing at the age of 25
piss poor management

and he STILL managed to go completely undefeated. period. no other fighter in history has had the deck stacked against him so much and manage to do everything ass backwards and still manage to win every one of their fights!

louis lost to a declining schmelling
holyfield lost to a mediocre ray mercer
tysonn lost to fornicating douglas
ali lost his title to frazier
foreman lost to ali

and before you give me the same tired line about "well they lost to great fighters!" ill do you one better. in each of those fights the loser posessed the skills to dominate thier opponent. the loser came into the fight overconfident and either undertrained or fighting stupid. no matter who the opponent rocky took every opponent seriously and never had a night were he let lesser men take his fornicating title or knock him out.

if you want to shit on rock. you can certainly do alot better than to attack his record. because your childish lines about old men and bums doesnt hold any water.

[pundit]

if you want to shit on rock. you can certainly do alot better than to attack his record. because your childish lines about old men and bums doesnt hold any water.

I can't see what arguments you brought forward against this point.

[stick_n_move]

Then what about his first fight with LaStarza?

what about it? it was close but due to the knockdown and the supplemental points system being in place rock was ahead on points. the fourth round was scored a 2-0 round for rocky which put him ahead.

[stick_n_move]

if you want to shit on rock. you can certainly do alot better than to attack his record. because your childish lines about old men and bums doesnt hold any water.

I can't see what arguments you brought forward against this point.

ok read my post. the point is that anybody can dis the comp of a figher they have an agenda against but saying his opponents werent no good because rocky beat them is a weak argument.

my point is that rocky achieved a level of consistency no other heavyweight champion ever achieved throughout their career given his many setbacks.

[pundit]

if you want to shit on rock. you can certainly do alot better than to attack his record. because your childish lines about old men and bums doesnt hold any water.

I can't see what arguments you brought forward against this point.

ok read my post. the point is that anybody can dis the comp of a figher they have an agenda against but saying his opponents werent no good because rocky beat them is a weak argument.

my point is that rocky achieved a level of consistency no other heavyweight champion ever achieved throughout their career given his many setbacks.

Well fine, but these two points are not necessarily at odds with one another - Rocky had great consistency and achieved it against the odds, but this was facilitated by the fact that he took over the helm of the h-division when it was not at its strongest.

[Jaclem]

...well....i sat down at my computer today and hoped there'd be another thread on marciano. there hadn't been one in the past day or two and I was afraid he'd been forgotten.

thank goodness i was wrong. how else would we be reminded that his record was 49-0?....that he had a fight as a pro before going back to the amateurs? that he had short arms? that some people think he made his reputation by beating fighters past their while others say these men may have been a bit long in the mouthpiece but they were still great before rocky ruined them? that he was perhaps the greatest heavyweight ever even though he fell down a lot while missing his target by a foot or two?

thanks for the revival of this much too neglected subject.

[wouter]

Homer

[wouter]

D'oh!

[BoxBuzz]

I suppose the guy at the convenience store took the day off yesterday. But he's my fav.

[BrocktonBlockbuster49]

piss poor management

i disagree. al weill may have screwed rocky on numerous occasions, but he was a ddamm good manager who did a lot of great work for rocky pre title making sure rocky got experience and proper training until he threw rocky in vs the top contenders. weill managed rocky very well.

he managed rockys fights well and made sure he didnt fight a top contender unless he had too. thats the mark of a good manager.