Joshua vs. Povetkin, a mismatch or not ?

[HomicideHenry]

Because it was PAINFULLY obvious that Povetkin was not the same guy who knocked out Duhapas.... And it was 99.99% because of fighting clean.... Duhapas is virtually impossible to stop too, and all of a sudden the power isn't there? That's WHY he was matched against Price, to look remotely like the man he used to be on drugs.

[Ilya Muromets]

Povetkin - Rudenko highlights

[Ilya Muromets]

Because it was PAINFULLY obvious that Povetkin was not the same guy who knocked out Duhapas.... And it was 99.99% because of fighting clean.... Duhapas is virtually impossible to stop too, and all of a sudden the power isn't there? That's WHY he was matched against Price, to look remotely like the man he used to be on drugs.

I'll tell you something - i know something about druggies, and all i need to do is look at the bodies of the three of them, Joshua, Wilder, and Povetkin, and the changes in those bodies in recent years, and i can tell you which two out of three of them is likely to be steroid users, and Povetkin isn't one of them. In fact be was never even accused of using steroids by the mafia clowns in lasvegas!

[tiny_acres]

Because it was PAINFULLY obvious that Povetkin was not the same guy who knocked out Duhapas.... And it was 99.99% because of fighting clean.... Duhapas is virtually impossible to stop too, and all of a sudden the power isn't there? That's WHY he was matched against Price, to look remotely like the man he used to be on drugs.

I'll tell you something - i know something about druggies, and all i need to do is look at the bodies of the three of them, Joshua, Wilder, and Povetkin, and the changes in those bodies in recent years, and i can tell you which two out of three of them is likely to be steroid users, and Povetkin isn't one of them. In fact be was never even accused of using steroids by the mafia clowns in lasvegas!

Not the Povetkin is innocent bullshit again

[HomicideHenry]

$50 Povetkin tests positive before it happens... He's a fornicate up... He tested positive when he was supposed to face Wilder... AJ is more dangerous than Deontay, its a certainty.

[tiny_acres]

$50 Povetkin tests positive before it happens... He's a eff up... He tested positive when he was supposed to face Wilder... AJ is more dangerous than Deontay, its a certainty.

Dude I would laugh so freaking hard if he pops positive.
But we would get 92,000 more posts how he was set up and is innocent as a pedophile priest

[jamamb]

in terms of how the fight plays out, it may. i wouldnt at all be surprised if aj keeps pov at the end of his shots and has an easy time busting him up

but on paper its still one of the best fights that can be made. povetkin is still top 5 and has been so for years now. really hed still easily be the best win for pretty much everyone in the division. i mean wilder started getting big hype for an aj fight when his best opponent was still fat bermane, whytes best win is over browne or chisora, parkers best over takam, millers best win is prob duhaupas pulevs best win is prob dimitrenko/chis/or old thompson ,

[jamamb]

basically, if aj takes out pov the gap between ajs record and the other hws records just continues to widen. and hes been pro less time then every serious hw too

look at wilder for example, by this time in his career he hadnt even had his fight with jason gavern yet. aj has been moved very ambitiously

[Ilya Muromets]

basically, if aj takes out pov the gap between ajs record and the other hws records just continues to widen. and hes been pro less time then every serious hw too

look at wilder for example, by this time in his career he hadnt even had his fight with jason gavern yet. aj has been moved very ambitiously

Don't worry, they won't let their UK Precious fight the Vityaz man. Their plan all along has obviously been to cash out on those two, Joshua and Wilder, fighting each other in a big money sports entertainment show. They've already almost lost Precious #2 to Molina of all people, and then there was Luis Ortiz and the now Memory Holed round # 7. Needed some ring doctor and referee and video editing help on that one!

[Enlightened-One]

Joshua vs. Povetkin, a mismatch or not ?

What justification do you have to use the word “mismatch” in the context of a bout where the so-called “underdog” is rated amongst the heavyweight division’s top three fighters?

Alexander Povetkin is ranked accordingly:
• 1st by the WBO
• 1st by the WBA and also the mandatory challenger
• 3rd by the WBC
• 3rd by the IBF (in the context of the number one spot being vacant)
• 3rd by ESPN
• 3rd by The RING

For sure, it’s entirely possible that AJ could potentially stop the Russian very quickly, in what could hypothetically be a one-sided bout, but that’s the nature of the heavyweight division, because sometimes all it takes is one punch to end the fight.

It doesn’t matter if Anthony Joshua is or isn’t capable of stopping Alexander Povetkin quickly, because that’s irrelevant, since the Russian’s current status in the sport means that the match-up has to be perceived as being fair, regardless of the outcome of the bout.

No should pretend that Alexander Povetkin is an unsuitable opponent for Anthony Joshua.

[Sequitorian]

I'm trying to make a pyramid that shows what spot everybody deserves.

Interesting ... I happen to be the world's foremost authority on Pyramidal Modeling ...

[Cent0089]

Klitschko fought Mormeck, Pianeta and Leapai. No problem with AJ vs Povetkin comparing to that

[DrDuke]

People, who talk about this bout like about a mismatch, don't understand the meaning of the word "mismatch". That actually means, that a challenger sucks. Here the challenger doesn't suck at all, he has only 1 loss, he's high in the rankings, he still dominates against his opponents. In this situation the champion is just too good, but not the challenger is too bad.

Joshua has 3 major belts and the best resume out of all current fighters. He is favoured against anyone including Wilder, who's the remaining belt-holder. So any bout of Joshua can be called a mismatch with such logic.

However, I'm not just don't calling it a mismatch, I give to Povetkin more chances, than the most people do. Maybe that's because I'm too much of Povetkin fan, but I give Povetkin the most of chances among everyone in the division. In my opinion, it's the final test for Joshua. If Joshua wins this, he'll prove everything.

[ValMar]

People, who talk about this bout like about a mismatch, don't understand the meaning of the word "mismatch". That actually means, the a challenger sucks. Here the challenger doesn't suck at all, he has only 1 loss, he's high in the rankings, he still dominates against his opponents. In this situation the champion is just too good, but not the challenger is too bad.

Joshua has 3 major belts and the best resume out of all current fighters. He is favoured against anyone including Wilder, who's the remaining belt-holder. So any bout of Joshua can be called a mismatch with such logic.

However, I'm not just don't calling it a mismatch, I give to Povetkin more chances, than the most people do. Maybe that's because I'm too much of Povetkin fan, but I give Povetkin the most of chances among everyone in the division. In my opinion, it's the final test for Joshua. If Joshua wins this, he'll prove everything.

I would not like to be misunderstood. I claimed, and I claim that Povetkin is/was among the top ten (likely top five) HWs for a decade.
By the way, I have a lot of respect for him, and I like him. But.....He did not win any round (any minute) against W. Klitschko, and he (Povetkin) was younger and better than today, and Joshua today is younger and better than Wlad was (when he faced Povetkin). So, it is very simple for me - Povetkin's chance to beat Joshua are minimal (let us say 1%, maybe 2%). Simply, I can not imagine Povetkin's succesful "modus operandi" against the Joshua......And, final tests for Joshua would be Wilder and Fury, definitely

[DrDuke]

I would not like to be misunderstood. I claimed, and I claim that Povetkin is/was among the top ten (likely top five) HWs for a decade.
By the way, I have a lot of respect for him, and I like him. But.....He did not win any round (any minute) against W. Klitschko, and he (Povetkin) was younger and better than today, and Joshua today is younger and better than Wlad was (when he faced Povetkin). So, it is very simple for me - Povetkin's chance to beat Joshua are minimal (let us say 1%, maybe 2%). Simply, I can not imagine Povetkin's succesful "modus operandi" against the Joshua......And, final tests for Joshua would be Wilder and Fury, definitely

Joshua needs to fight like Klitschko to beat Povetkin. Styles make fight. Joshua showed some improvements in using the rational fighting approach in Parker fight, that is very important sign. He needs to establish similar jab-oriented style against Povetkin.

I'd also name Fury his biggest test, but for the moment Fury isn't fit. And Wilder isn't probably the hardest matchup, cause in their fight they both will most likely be cautious and try to outbox each other from the distance, which will be good for Joshua. Wilder will be most likely outboxed, he will need to take risks, what won't happen probably. While Povetkin will pressure Joshua all the time, he has nothing to lose and he will need to get close. It won't be too wise for Joshua to engage much with him and it won't be too easy to avoid every vicious attack of Povetkin. That's how I see it, so I named Povetkin his worst matchup.

[ValMar]

I would not like to be misunderstood. I claimed, and I claim that Povetkin is/was among the top ten (likely top five) HWs for a decade.
By the way, I have a lot of respect for him, and I like him. But.....He did not win any round (any minute) against W. Klitschko, and he (Povetkin) was younger and better than today, and Joshua today is younger and better than Wlad was (when he faced Povetkin). So, it is very simple for me - Povetkin's chance to beat Joshua are minimal (let us say 1%, maybe 2%). Simply, I can not imagine Povetkin's succesful "modus operandi" against the Joshua......And, final tests for Joshua would be Wilder and Fury, definitely

Joshua needs to fight like Klitschko to beat Povetkin. Styles make fight. Joshua showed some improvements in using the rational fighting approach in Parker fight, that is very important sign. He needs to establish similar jab-oriented style against Povetkin.

I'd also name Fury his biggest test, but for the moment Fury isn't fit. And Wilder isn't probably the hardest matchup, cause in their fight they both will most likely be cautious and try to outbox each other from the distance, which will be good for Joshua. Wilder will be most likely outboxed, he will need to take risks, what won't happen probably. While Povetkin will pressure Joshua all the time, he has nothing to lose and he will need to get close. It won't be too wise for Joshua to engage much with him and it won't be too easy to avoid every vicious attack of Povetkin. That's how I see it, so I named Povetkin his worst matchup.

I forgot to mention that judges and referee will be on Joshua's side, nobody can me convince the opposite.

[DrDuke]

I forgot to mention that judges and referee will be on Joshua's side, nobody can me convince the opposite.

You're right for sure.

[SportsRatings]

It's really really hard to put every boxer on the location they deserve while drawing lines in between that are not allowed to cross names, but I'll do another attempt.



I'm trying to make a pyramid that shows what spot everybody deserves.
At the same time, I currently rate Chisora for example, a lot higher, despite he lost all of his matches.

I think that one change made it a lot better. I was just wondering if you had something against Wilder.

I like the idea of your chart, and I think it's a good visual summary of the current HW scene. And sort of like the Top 25 in football where you can rank teams by who beat who.

Boxers like Chisora -- who fight everyone very close, but lose decisions -- are always hard to rank appropriately, so I wouldn't worry about 1 or 2 fighters not being in the "correct" spot, and I think moving Wilder "up" made it a lot better.

[Sequitorian]

I'm trying to make a pyramid that shows what spot everybody deserves.

Interesting ... I happen to be the world's foremost authority on Pyramidal Modeling ...

Go ahead, improve it if you can! For me it's a really annoying and time consuming work, but it shows a lot. If you have better software then paint it's probably a lot more easy then what I'm doing.

No ... I don't think I could improve it ... I think it's great ... really ... it shows a lot ...

... but it reminded me of an ecology slide ... (below) ... that shows predator/prey relationships ... which is also often shown as a pyramid (also below) ... and I've used that pyramid model for all sorts of other applications ... (it's kind of my thing) ...

The only way to improve it (in a more-or-less rigorous/scholarly fashion) would be to show all of each fighter's fights ... AND ... figure out some way to quantify their records (more accurately than simply W/L) ... which would then give each fighter's record an arbitrary numerical value ... (and the champ would be at the top of the pyramid) ... ... but I realize that that's ridiculous and why I said I don't think I could improve it ...

It's the same problem with trying to quantify the ecology model ... (which I've been working on for about 10 years) ...

Ecology Slide



Trophic Pyramid




Good work though ... and it wouldn't surprise me one bit if The Ring or some other publication published it ...

...

[Sequitorian]

Hell ... they might pay you to publish it ... that's what I meant ...

[Grilling Machine]

Not a mismatch until we learn otherwise, because it's a fair distance from a foregone conclusion that Joshua wins. Povetkin still has the style, toughness and ability to cause a huge upset.

I think the likelihood is that he gets broken up down the stretch. If enough of us feel that way and it comes to pass, we can call it a mismatch on reflection. But for now, I think it feels like a one-sided fight with just enough potential for competitiveness to raise a few doubts. I hope the ref allows infighting this time.

It should be a classic learning fight for Joshua.

[Heretic]

The current heavyweight division in one picture pretty much looks like this:


All the top 50 boxers are named including some previous top contenders and all the boxers that fought each other got a line in between them with the winner ranked the highest.

If I forgot a match, please tell me.

Except for Tyson Fury, Miller and some guys he already won against, there is nobody higher is there?
As soon as he won against Tyson Fury, he's undisputed.

I don't get some of the "levelling" on there. For example Adam Kownacki, with one win over Szpilka, is "perched" higher than Wilder who has several wins on the chart. Wilder should be up higher than Kownacki, higher than Miller (3 wins), and at least even with Whyte and Parker and probably above. He has no losses like Fury and Joshua so he could be on the top line, too.

So I don't think a win over Fury makes Joshua undisputed unless you just keep Wilder down on the chart because that's where you placed his name. Or maybe I'm wrong and people are clamoring for Joshua vs. Kownacki instead?

It's really really hard to put every boxer on the location they deserve while drawing lines in between that are not allowed to cross names, but I'll do another attempt.



I'm trying to make a pyramid that shows what spot everybody deserves.
At the same time, I currently rate Chisora for example, a lot higher, despite he lost all of his matches.

That is quite interesting chart.

Shows how rare it is that the top names fight each other.

Two fights that are missing...

Whyte vs Helenius
Molina vs Breazeale.

[Luis Fernando12]

Not a mismatch until we learn otherwise, because it's a fair distance from a foregone conclusion that Joshua wins. Povetkin still has the style, toughness and ability to cause a huge upset.

I think the likelihood is that he gets broken up down the stretch. If enough of us feel that way and it comes to pass, we can call it a mismatch on reflection. But for now, I think it feels like a one-sided fight with just enough potential for competitiveness to raise a few doubts. I hope the ref allows infighting this time.

It should be a classic learning fight for Joshua.

Povetkin's physique, compared to Joshua's is sufficient enough alone to suggest that these 2 don't even belong in the same ring together and that it would be a disgrace to professional sports if those two guys of insane and dangerous size differences are allowed to even fight against each other.

Povetkin is literally a near obese, supposed 'elite' level fighter. Strip him off his fat, he is no bigger than your average cruiser weight. He has 0 business competing against absolute physical specimens and behemoths like Joshua and putting his health at insane risk. The only way this even becomes a fair fight, is if Povetkin is allowed to take PEDs that literally makes him as big as Joshua in terms of functional size. Otherwise, this is a nonsensical fight.

This is Alexander Povetkin, a fat, small, pudgy and chubby pudding:



And this is Anthony Joshua. An insane physical specimen and a giant behemoth:





This potential bout is literally a comedic circus event and not even a legitimate or a credible sporting event to even respectfully discuss about.

This fight betrays human right violations when we look at the insane size difference between these 2 creatures. It's almost as if this is a fight between two different animal species altogether. Such is the size and physical difference where Joshua literally looks like a T-Rex whilst Povetkin looks like a penguin. Let that sink in!

This is practically like a T-REX (Joshua) against a housecat (Povetkin). Such is the mismatch!

[Luis Fernando12]

Anything short of Anthony Joshua literally knocking Povetkin out inside the first few seconds of the first round whilst putting Povetkin to sleep in concussive fashion, would expose Joshua as an INSANE feather fist and as a TOTAL fraud.

Simply beating Povetkin isn't good or sufficient enough. Since It has to be via KO. And a KO alone isn't good enough either, since it has to also be a concussive KO where Povetkin is put to sleep and even that isn't enough, since it has to be done in the first few seconds of the first round.

Considering what has been said multiple times commonly about Povetkin supposedly nearly losing to Price. If Joshua can't fulfill the standard that has been set, then he gets exposed as an insane feather fist and a fraud.

Joshua gets 0 credit for winning this fight. And receives only criticism if he fails to fulfill the expectation. And if he does fulfill the expectation, then he is only doing what he's supposed to do and therefore deserves no credit.

This is like a 30 year old adult vs his 5 year old son in a mismatch type of a match up. And it has to be treated as such!

[candyslim]

Well said. The man is obsessed with size and it gets very boring. I'm expecting Joshua to win comfortably but that's more age related than size. Of course size is an advantage to Joshua but compare their respective performances against Carlos Takam if you believe that at no point in time could this fight (AJ/AP) have been genuinely competitive. It might still be but I suspect not.

I make no comment about whether or not I think Povetkin has ever been a drug user, but I will say that if x2x really believes that Joshua is scared to face him, or that Sasha will be deprived of his chance to fight in order to protect Joshua, then I think my learned friend has been smoking some pretty strong sh*t. Lightning won't strike twice x2x I'm certain of that.