Shut-Out or Frozen-Out Greats U.S/UK 1935-55

jimmer · Post by **jimmer** » 06 May 2003, 21:54

Just curious Guy's, who were some of the "Greats" Frozen-Out ???

We all know about Charley Burley and now he's a HOF'er, and rightly so, he was better than many/most and he would have been a World Champion if given the chance or been treated as on an equal playing field.

But, he wasn't the only one! There were a lot of "Greats" during this period, whom a lot of experts agree,this was the single GREATEST period in Boxing History.

I myself know of a British Fighter who's story is "perhaps" the Greatest story in British Boxing for this.

Who do you know of ??? US and UK, What grumbling's or murmuring have you heard over the years about these Great Fighters ??? Curious, jimmer.

The Keed · Post by **The Keed** » 07 May 2003, 16:47

There was a guy who KO'd middleweight champ Babe Risko in 1 round in a non-title fight. He was a British guy, but I forget his name. He was nicknamed "The Rochsdale Thunderbolt". He was frozen out of big fights at middleweight, and had to challenge for the light-heavy title, against Len Harvey and I think (but I'm not sure) John Henry Lewis.

Other guys "frozen" out of shots:

Lloyd Marshall (beat something like 12 world champs in his career, including Jake LaMotta, Joey Maxim, Freddie Mills, and Ezzard Charles, and also beat Burley)

Holman Williams

Jimmy Bivins

Holly Mims (was frozen out of a title shot after giving Ray Robinson all he could handle in a non-title fight... couldn't get big fights again until he was old)

kevin · Post by **kevin** » 07 May 2003, 17:50

CUban Hawk you are talking about Jock McAvoy, a great book called the "Rochdale Thunderbolt" all about him..

Jimmer is obviously talking about Bert Gilroy, at the weekend I am putting some info on my site about him.. also some stuff about Mark Hart and Reg Spring who in 1949 were number 2 and number 3 in the ratings of British Boxer's according to "Boxing News", and Bert Gilroy was number 4, all at Light Heavy.. Spring came from Southall, West London, where I originate from...

Kevin
http://www.britishboxing.net (A work in Progress)

Post by **John** » 07 May 2003, 18:10

My father knew Mart Hart, he used to work on the Surrey Street market in Croydon.

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 08 May 2003, 02:01

hawks lists some of the greatest fighters of all time. Marshall and Bivins are one and two...not sure of which order....in wins over former or future champs. Now I've got myself curious and I'll see if I can dig out the exact data.

Bert Lytell is another. I've written about him on other threads. split two with Charley Burley, beat Holman Williams and the other guys nobody wanted to fight. A southpaw middleweight who fought a lot of light heavies. In fact, if you check him along with Hawks list you'll find most of them fought each other. Lytell was not quite as good as the ones on Hawk's list, but just a small step below. Very hard for him to get fights.

Involved in a tragedy. Young prospect Jackie Darthard somehow fought him to a draw, but was killed by Lytell when they fought a rematch.