Joshua vs. Povetkin, a mismatch or not ?

[FruitStealer]

I don't know if he's trolling but this guy is obsessed with height and calling 6'2" 230 pounders guys midgets in every post he writes.
Basically he thinks there should be a division only for "non-bum-giant-physical-specimens", basically only for ...3 guys? AJ, Wilder and Fury.
Yeah right.

I think for a "midget" Povetkin has been doing quite well in HW division.

And I think we got enough examples of 6 footer and below champions to say height is not such a big deal at elite level...

[Enlightened-One]

I don't know if he's trolling but this guy is obsessed with height and calling 6'2" 230 pounders guys midgets in every post he writes.
Basically he thinks there should be a division only for "non-bum-giant-physical-specimens", basically only for ...3 guys? AJ, Wilder and Fury.
Yeah right.

I think for a "midget" Povetkin has been doing quite well in HW division.

And I think we got enough examples of 6 footer and below champions to say height is not such a big deal at elite level...

As per The RING ratings, the average height of a top-ten rated heavyweight today is 6’ 4½”, weighing 248lbs. And according to BoxRec's top sixty ratings, 45% of fighters in that division typically weigh around the 250lb-mark or more.

Therefore, a 6'2" 230lbs Alexander Povetkin is a relatively small heavyweight by today's standards, but almost certainly not a "midget" by any means.

How many examples of heavyweight fighters, which were six feet tall or shorter, that gained considerable success in the division within the last two decades can you really name?

[Luis Fernando12]

The only time Alexander Povetkin fought a real, modern sized and like SUPER HEAVYWEIGHT similar to Anthony Joshua was when he fought Wladimir Klitschko. And in that fight, Wladimir Klitschko exposed and proved Povetkin to not be a legitimate / credible heavyweight...

No, that's not true.

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't you introduce yourself a while back as a big Povetkin fan? How do they say, with friends like that who needs enemie?

Now let us look at photogaphs of Joshua, Wilder, and Povetkin. Two of them have physiques that suggest possible steroid use, and one of them has the physique of an old fashioned male athlete? Who knows the answer?

I'm a fan, but I'm also a realist. Povetkin has no business fighting in the modern heavyweight division among insane SUPER HEAVYWEIGHT behemoths like Joshua.

And yes, maybe Joshua is on steroids. Which is more reason why Povtetkin should avoid Joshua at all costs. Since it makes the fight even more unfair.

[Luis Fernando12]

I don't know if he's trolling but this guy is obsessed with height and calling 6'2" 230 pounders guys midgets in every post he writes.
Basically he thinks there should be a division only for "non-bum-giant-physical-specimens", basically only for ...3 guys? AJ, Wilder and Fury.
Yeah right.

I think for a "midget" Povetkin has been doing quite well in HW division.

And I think we got enough examples of 6 footer and below champions to say height is not such a big deal at elite level...

As per The RING ratings, the average height of a top-ten rated heavyweight today is 6’ 4½”, weighing 248lbs. And according to BoxRec's top sixty ratings, 45% of fighters in that division typically weigh around the 250lb-mark or more.

Therefore, a 6'2" 230lbs Alexander Povetkin is a relatively small heavyweight by today's standards, but almost certainly not a "midget" by any means.

How many examples of heavyweight fighters, which were six feet tall or shorter, that gained considerable success in the division within the last two decades can you really name?

Thank you very much!

And the term 'midget' is only a relative term. Relative to modern giant SUPER HEAVYWEIGHT behemoths like Anthony Joshua and Tyson Fury, Povetkin is indeed a 'midget'.

[Luis Fernando12]

I don't know if he's trolling but this guy is obsessed with height and calling 6'2" 230 pounders guys midgets in every post he writes.
Basically he thinks there should be a division only for "non-bum-giant-physical-specimens", basically only for ...3 guys? AJ, Wilder and Fury.
Yeah right.

I think for a "midget" Povetkin has been doing quite well in HW division.

And I think we got enough examples of 6 footer and below champions to say height is not such a big deal at elite level...

The term 'midget' is only a relative term. Relative to modern giant SUPER HEAVYWEIGHT behemoths like Anthony Joshua and Tyson Fury, Povetkin is indeed a 'midget'. But if he were to drop down a weight division or two, then he won't be a midget because he'd be fighting guys his own size in fair fights.

You also forgot to mention the likes of Kubrat Pulev, Joe Joyce, Daniel Dubois, Filip Hrgovic and Vladyslav Sirenko alongside Tyson Fury and Anthony Joshua. Either that, or you are not aware of who they are.

[jvincent]

Candyslim, believe me, there are some methods (or techniques) to get the money from the bookies, but this is off topic.

Lackeos, I think that L Fernando is not serious.

This is true now with the sky bet double chance. Ive won 200+ off only 5 pound bets 3 weeks out of 4 and 176 last weekend.

[candyslim]

Now that sure beats working for a living

[AlexCayWalt]

Povetkin is underdog but it's not a mismatch. Remember he lost only once and it was a dirty fight. Joshua cannot be so dirty as Wlad. Povetkin can show his advantages in clean boxing. He stands a chance.

[ValMar]

Considering size, if Povetkin is a midget, I am Mario Vargas LLosa (or Jose Saramago).........

[Ilya Muromets]

The only time Alexander Povetkin fought a real, modern sized and like SUPER HEAVYWEIGHT similar to Anthony Joshua was when he fought Wladimir Klitschko. And in that fight, Wladimir Klitschko exposed and proved Povetkin to not be a legitimate / credible heavyweight...

No, that's not true.

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't you introduce yourself a while back as a big Povetkin fan? How do they say, with friends like that who needs enemie?

Now let us look at photogaphs of Joshua, Wilder, and Povetkin. Two of them have physiques that suggest possible steroid use, and one of them has the physique of an old fashioned male athlete? Who knows the answer?

I'm a fan, but I'm also a realist. Povetkin has no business fighting in the modern heavyweight division among insane SUPER HEAVYWEIGHT behemoths like Joshua.

And yes, maybe Joshua is on steroids. Which is more reason why Povtetkin should avoid Joshua at all costs. Since it makes the fight even more unfair.

One thing I do strongly agree with you about is the need for at least one more heavyweight division, for these modern super heavyweights. More heavy weight divisions are needed - and less light weight divisions.

PS I edited the post you quoted a bit. See above.

[candyslim]

Joshua is arguably even stronger and more powerful than Wladimir Klitschko. Which means Povetkin has 0 chance against Joshua, when he had 0 success against Wlad.

Yes he is but one thing Wlad in his mature years had going for him was a very reliable chin, although it appears to have improved dramatically with age. Hopefully Joshua's will too but at the moment he can be caught , wobbled, even dropped.

Povetkin is well used to fighting taller and rangier opponents. He is adept at closing the range and when he does, he throws a spiteful left hook or a wicked right hand over the top. If AJ were foolish enough to leave his head up there unprotected like a weather vane, Povetkin would take full advantage. AJ is no fool and will concentrate on tight defence using his jab and stiff counters to make Sasha pay for each forward step.

Size does matter in boxing of course it does, but you need to know how to get the best out of your height advantage because you can be sure that a good shorter man has been successful by learning how best to turn his height shortfall to his advantage.

Size matters but it's not the be-all and end-all. I do believe your obsession loses you sight of the whole picture.

Povetkin is a very long way from having no chance, I'd rate his chances about 35%. and it'll probably be up to 40 % by fight night as my nervousness for AJ peaks.

I don't give Povetkin a % of a chance at beating Joshua. And seeing as you are an AJ fan, there is absolutely nothing for you to worry about what so ever as Povetkin poses 0% threat or risk at beating Joshua. He doesn't have the power to KO Joshua with one punch. And suppose he lands one punch that hurts Joshua and tries to follow up on them with more punches to get the KO, Joshua is physically too strong and will man handle Povetkin as if he was a little child.

And Povetkin has 0% chanec of out-boxing Joshua and winning a decision.

Skills become irrelevant against an opponent that is that much bigger in size, and also knows how to use his size. Povetkin is out of his depth and element here. He is going to be hopeless and is going to be praying to his god that the damage that will be inflicted on him, is not severe that it takes years out of his life and gives him permanent health damage.

Just by looking at the pictures of both guys, it makes me sick to my stomach that both are even allowed to fight each other as if it was a credible and a legitimate match up.

This is Alexander Povetkin, a fat, small, pudgy and chubby pudding



And this is Anthony Joshua. An insane physical specimen



How can anyone honestly say with a straight face, after looking at both guy's picture, that they even belong in the same ring together? It's disgusting and looks totally gruesome.

Povetkin has as much of a chance at beating Joshua, as a mouse has at beating a T-Rex whilst colliding head on and head first with that T-Rex.

Shame on you Luis. For someone who claims to be a Povetkin fan, you show him about as much respect as Caldo does. At least he's honest about his disdain.

Anyone who knows boxing knows Povetkin is a top 6 heavyweight on merit, has been for a very long time, and is still there on merit. Top 6 is a conservative assessment.

If Joshua destroys him it'll be because Sasha at 38 isn't what he used to be, but while he is undoubtedly the underdog, in no way is he a no hoper. He has demonstrated knockout power throughout his career and the skills to position himself to apply that power.

It's not like Joshua is totally immune to a shot delivered with power and precision is it? Yes I think Joshua wins and may well have done if they were both in their prime, and yes physical advantages are a factor, but it pisses me off to read anyone dismiss a fine fighter like Povetkin like he was nothing but a bum, and I think your rubbishing of him says more about your judgement than about his chances in the fight.

[Sequitorian]

... it's "Little Person", folks ... (geez) ...

[punchoutsb]

Joshua is arguably even stronger and more powerful than Wladimir Klitschko. Which means Povetkin has 0 chance against Joshua, when he had 0 success against Wlad.

Yes he is but one thing Wlad in his mature years had going for him was a very reliable chin, although it appears to have improved dramatically with age. Hopefully Joshua's will too but at the moment he can be caught , wobbled, even dropped.

Povetkin is well used to fighting taller and rangier opponents. He is adept at closing the range and when he does, he throws a spiteful left hook or a wicked right hand over the top. If AJ were foolish enough to leave his head up there unprotected like a weather vane, Povetkin would take full advantage. AJ is no fool and will concentrate on tight defence using his jab and stiff counters to make Sasha pay for each forward step.

Size does matter in boxing of course it does, but you need to know how to get the best out of your height advantage because you can be sure that a good shorter man has been successful by learning how best to turn his height shortfall to his advantage.

Size matters but it's not the be-all and end-all. I do believe your obsession loses you sight of the whole picture.

Povetkin is a very long way from having no chance, I'd rate his chances about 35%. and it'll probably be up to 40 % by fight night as my nervousness for AJ peaks.

I don't give Povetkin a % of a chance at beating Joshua. And seeing as you are an AJ fan, there is absolutely nothing for you to worry about what so ever as Povetkin poses 0% threat or risk at beating Joshua. He doesn't have the power to KO Joshua with one punch. And suppose he lands one punch that hurts Joshua and tries to follow up on them with more punches to get the KO, Joshua is physically too strong and will man handle Povetkin as if he was a little child.

And Povetkin has 0% chanec of out-boxing Joshua and winning a decision.

Skills become irrelevant against an opponent that is that much bigger in size, and also knows how to use his size. Povetkin is out of his depth and element here. He is going to be hopeless and is going to be praying to his god that the damage that will be inflicted on him, is not severe that it takes years out of his life and gives him permanent health damage.

Just by looking at the pictures of both guys, it makes me sick to my stomach that both are even allowed to fight each other as if it was a credible and a legitimate match up.

This is Alexander Povetkin, a fat, small, pudgy and chubby pudding:

And this is Anthony Joshua. An insane physical specimen and a giant behemoth:

How can anyone honestly say with a straight face, after looking at both guy's picture, that they even belong in the same ring together? It's disgusting and looks totally gruesome.

Povetkin has as much of a chance at beating Joshua, as a mouse has at beating a T-Rex whilst colliding head on and head first with that T-Rex.

What a truly abysmal post. Your attempt to highlight your non-points by comparing the physiques was especially amusing.

[funso banjo baby]

Povetkin is a huge fight

I like it

[Like a Boss]

Povetkin of about 3 years ago would have offered one hell of a scrap. Size and age might be against him winning. But I don't see it as an obvious mismatch.

[Lackeos]

Basically he thinks there should be a division only for "non-bum-giant-physical-specimens", basically only for ...3 guys? AJ, Wilder and Fury.
Yeah right.

I think depending on Luis's mood at the time, Wilder and Fury sometimes may not be included; nor Lennox Lewis, Riddick Bowe, or Vitali.

Consider the facts: Luis excluded David Price, who is huge, heavy, somewhat lean, and somewhat muscular because... I dunno, bf% is highest low enough? He excluded giant steroid freak Wach because... I don't even know, maybe his bf% is within 1 point of being low enough for Luis's tastes.

Well, Riddick Bowe is way flabbier than Price and Wach. Vitali sometimes has a skinny fat look. Wilder doesn't even have nearly as much muscle mass as Price and Wach. Lennox might be accepted by Luis, but his build is sometimes not all that different from Wach's.

It's possible that Luis thinks Wlad shouldn't have defended his title against anyone during his reign, and that Joshua shouldn't have defended his title against anyone during his reign. After all, the only 2 fighters that belong in Luis's mythical ridiculous division are Wlad and Joshua. So if Wlad defended his title against anyone before Joshua came along, then it would have been an atrocity. And if Joshua defends his title against anyone now that Wlad is gone, it'd be an abomination.

[candyslim]

That would appear to sum it up nicely.

[FruitStealer]

Basically he thinks there should be a division only for "non-bum-giant-physical-specimens", basically only for ...3 guys? AJ, Wilder and Fury.
Yeah right.

I think depending on Luis's mood at the time, Wilder and Fury sometimes may not be included; nor Lennox Lewis, Riddick Bowe, or Vitali.

Consider the facts: Luis excluded David Price, who is huge, heavy, somewhat lean, and somewhat muscular because... I dunno, bf% is highest low enough? He excluded giant steroid freak Wach because... I don't even know, maybe his bf% is within 1 point of being low enough for Luis's tastes.

Well, Riddick Bowe is way flabbier than Price and Wach. Vitali sometimes has a skinny fat look. Wilder doesn't even have nearly as much muscle mass as Price and Wach. Lennox might be accepted by Luis, but his build is sometimes not all that different from Wach's.

It's possible that Luis thinks Wlad shouldn't have defended his title against anyone during his reign, and that Joshua shouldn't have defended his title against anyone during his reign. After all, the only 2 fighters that belong in Luis's mythical ridiculous division are Wlad and Joshua. So if Wlad defended his title against anyone before Joshua came along, then it would have been an atrocity. And if Joshua defends his title against anyone now that Wlad is gone, it'd be an abomination.

I would go further.
Maybe it's even an abomination that such physical specimens like Wlad and AJ have to fight to win the belts in the first place.
Just give those belts to them, damn!

[kych]

It is not a mismatch, hawever the next fight vs Wilder must come, they should sit together on one table and sign the contract with cameras.
No playing games. We want to know who is the best!!
If possible with two matches as Golovkin vs Alvarez.

[Ilya Muromets]

I would go further.
Maybe it's even an abomination that such physical specimens like Wlad and AJ have to fight to win the belts in the first place.
Just give those belts to them, damn!

I agree. Also change the name of the sport to bodybuilding.

[Ilya Muromets]

Basically he thinks there should be a division only for "non-bum-giant-physical-specimens", basically only for ...3 guys? AJ, Wilder and Fury.
Yeah right.

I think depending on Luis's mood at the time, Wilder and Fury sometimes may not be included; nor Lennox Lewis, Riddick Bowe, or Vitali.

Consider the facts: Luis excluded David Price, who is huge, heavy, somewhat lean, and somewhat muscular because... I dunno, bf% is highest low enough? He excluded giant steroid freak Wach because... I don't even know, maybe his bf% is within 1 point of being low enough for Luis's tastes.

Well, Riddick Bowe is way flabbier than Price and Wach. Vitali sometimes has a skinny fat look. Wilder doesn't even have nearly as much muscle mass as Price and Wach. Lennox might be accepted by Luis, but his build is sometimes not all that different from Wach's.

It's possible that Luis thinks Wlad shouldn't have defended his title against anyone during his reign, and that Joshua shouldn't have defended his title against anyone during his reign. After all, the only 2 fighters that belong in Luis's mythical ridiculous division are Wlad and Joshua. So if Wlad defended his title against anyone before Joshua came along, then it would have been an atrocity. And if Joshua defends his title against anyone now that Wlad is gone, it'd be an abomination.

Vityaz man is a big guy. He is 6'2" and has always weighed about 220-230. The real weight problem in the heavyweight division, that Luis is going on about, is not for guys the size of Vityaz (which, by the way, means knight, as in knight errant, as in I. Morametz, Candyslim) , it is guys like me, like I was when i was all trimmed down in fighting shape. I was 6"0" or 6'1", depending on who measured me, and 205- 210. There is no fair place in boxing for men that size. Oh, then lose weight, I hear them say, but if the naturally optimum weight for a man is say 205 or 210 why should he have to lose weight and weaken himself, whereas the little guys have their precious little divisions separated by only 2 or 3 pounds? Why don't they lose weight? Or the alternative is face a huge handicap being in the same division where the champions are a head taller and 30, 40, 50 pounds heavier! Vityaz is in the middle so he's OK, but a 205 heavyweight? No, not so fair. They need at least one more heavyweight division.

[candyslim]

You're preaching to the converted. I would favour a Super-cruiser division at about 224 maybe. People will be dead against it but I well remember the arguments against the introduction of the Cruiserweight division. It was largely ignored at first, got very little attention or kudos but it was there for those who felt they couldn't do Light-heavyweight or make any impression at Heavyweight so it served a purpose.

Now look at it. Who could say hand on heart that the dilution of the Heavyweight division isn't worth it for the tournament we just witnessed, and who would want to force the likes of Gassiev and Briedis to compete against men bigger than your front door rather than letting them choose whether to follow the money or the glory?

Who would ditch the Cruiserweight division now? ... someone ? ... anyone?

[ValMar]

You're preaching to the converted. I would favour a Super-cruiser division at about 224 maybe. People will be dead against it but I well remember the arguments against the introduction of the Cruiserweight division. It was largely ignored at first, got very little attention or kudos but it was there for those who felt they couldn't do Light-heavyweight or make any impression at Heavyweight so it served a purpose.

Now look at it. Who could say hand on heart that the dilution of the Heavyweight division isn't worth it for the tournament we just witnessed, and who would want to force the likes of Gassiev and Briedis to compete against men bigger than your front door rather than letting them choose whether to follow the money or the glory?

Who would ditch the Cruiserweight division now? ... someone ? ... anyone?

Candyslim, usually I agree with you, but this time it is quite different. Boxing needs less weight divisions. How many the top class HWs (over 6'5''/240) you can list ? I think you can not list more than 10, considering last 30 years. I would like to be convinced the opposite.

[candyslim]

Valmar you want to make me work but you didn't answer my question.

It's too hot to work and the list depends very much on how you measure top-class. Besides every smaller heavy is affected by it, not just the best, in fact you could argue that those with the greatest talent, Usyk being a prime example are less likely to be affected than those of more modest ability.

I imagine the likes of Usyk and Holyfield were he active today, are likely to ignore Super-cruiser and chase down Joshua and Wilder (once Usyk has done with Bellew) but Super-cruiser would be there for those who might find an assault on the big guys a step too far.

[candyslim]

Sorry I forgot your point about less weight classes.

1. Does an extra one make any difference, really?

2. I don't think too many weight classes is the real problem, it's the absurd proliferation of stupid junior, silver, titles and fights for the WBZ Oriental title contested by a Serb and a Bolivian, it's just bonkers. (Exaggerated example but you know what I mean)

3. I get it entirely that weight advantage gets less important as you go up the weight categories, but if you seriously want to reduce the number of weight divisions ask yourself do we really need ten, count them, ten divisions covering the 35lb spread between Straw 105 and Light-welter 140?