Just How Good Is Oleksandr Usyk?

[candyslim]

Quite so.

I will repeat this, risking to be boring, Usyk would have more problems with Tyson Fury than with Joshua or Wilder.
Even "a little cousin" H. Fury, because of his style, might be competitive.
Bellew has no more than 5% chance at CW, and maybe 10% at HW to beat Usyk.

I do respect your opinions Valmar but it is important to remember they are opinions not facts. I think Usyk's boxing ability would be a nightmare for Wilder, but as ungainly as Wilder would be made to look, Usyk won't hurt him. I think Usyk wins on points if he can avoid Wilder's bombs for 12 rounds or if his sound chin allied to his superb defence, allow him to survive until the fog clears and the legs and brain are fully in synch again.

Fury? People don't usually out-box Usyk, but a man with his height and reach together with his mobility could be the perfect antidote to Usyk's superior technique. Fury doesn't need to fear Usyk's power so he can afford to take liberties. A Fury anywhere near his 2015 level is a really tough fight for Usyk, I agree.

Hughie is Tyson-light poses the same problems but isn't good enough to beat Usyk.

I've posted a few times on different threads why I think Joshua is a big favourite to overcome Usyk so I won't repeat it at length, but I will say as a huge Joshua fan that the only Joshua opponents that make me worried for him are those that have the power to knock him out. Usyk for all his superb attributes is not one of those and as I see it, it's debatable whether I see Usyk as a greater threat to AJ than Dillian Whyte. I don't worry about AJ getting outboxed over the full 12 rounds, but he can be susceptible to someone who can bang.

[Coco]

He can't really claim to be champ until he beats Tony Bellew

[punchoutsb]

He can't really claim to be champ until he beats Tony Bellew

[Blodhemn]

..I will also add that Joshua beat albeit past his prime but still fit and very aggressive potential HOFer Klitschko... I just can't imagine Usyk being capable of outboxing or "lethally" hurting Wlad..and yes, I was impressed with Usyk schooling Gassiev..

I've heard that Usyk gave Wlad fits in sparring. Who knows if it's true but I easily can see it. Wlad never looked good against smaller movers, only Byrd, who stood in front of him. Actually, it seems more likely than not - Wlad needs an opponent to be still in order to feel comfortable to throw.

He can't really claim to be champ until he beats Tony Bellew

[polecateddy]

A bit of a funny thread. Surely there's not enough data is rank him very accurately. His level of opposition doesn't seem particularly outstanding. He only has to have one stoppage loss next year and he'd be a flash in the pan. There's any number of good cruiserweights from other generations who would potentially test him to his limits. All the cruiserweights the young crowd here seem to be able to throw up are Holyfield, Haye and Bellew?!

[jamamb]

hes had several signifucant fights, he just for the most part has cut out the crap so in 15 fights he already beaten several champs and former champs and contenders. but ya, maybe he shouldve paid his dues with 20 extra bums on his record

[candyslim]

Cruiserweight is a very young division of course, I don't imagine too many people suggesting Carlos DeLeon or ST Gordon being any threat to Usyk, Dwight M. Qawi perhaps?

Of course if you want to include all the Heavyweights of yesteryear who boxed at a weight which would now make them Cruisers then you may well have a point.

[jamamb]

not that many guys spent too long at cruiser, and many that did , like jc gomez, fought weak sauce

usyk already easily has one of the strongest records there

[Enlightened-One]

A bit of a funny thread. Surely there's not enough data is rank him very accurately. His level of opposition doesn't seem particularly outstanding. He only has to have one stoppage loss next year and he'd be a flash in the pan. There's any number of good cruiserweights from other generations who would potentially test him to his limits. All the cruiserweights the young crowd here seem to be able to throw up are Holyfield, Haye and Bellew?!

Agreed.

Case in point, Donald Curry had an extraordinarily high peak between 1983 and 1986, when he was rated on a pound-for-pound level above the likes of Tommy Hearns, Michael Spinks, Mike McCallum, Aaron Pryor and Azumah Nelson, but then Lloyd Honeyghan upset the applecart and the “Cobra” very quickly became an ordinary fighter on an overnight basis.

I’m not suggesting for one second that Oleksandr Usyk is destined to follow the same fate, but it’s not entirely unreasonable to consider this as being a possibility.

Also, it’s highly likely that heavyweights from yesteryear, such as Mike Tyson, Ken Norton, Larry Holmes, George Foreman and Muhammad Ali, would have all been physically capable of making the 200lbs cruiserweight limit, based on the fact that their day-of the-fight official weights were consistently around the 215lbs mark (during their physical primes).

So if people insist on comparing Oleksandr Usyk to fighters that could have made 200lbs, then these sort of guys cannot be ignored.

[jamamb]

so what is george foremans historical standing within the cw division.

[Enlightened-One]

so what is george foremans historical standing within the cw division.

OK, in terms of the cruiserweight standings, Usyk should be considered within the all-time top three list, because it's a new weight class, where its previous limit was 190lbs. George Foreman wouldn't even be ranked.

However, if we're comparing how good Oleksandr Usyk is to other fighters that were the same size, then we have to not only evaluate him against fellow cruiserweights, but we also need to consider heavyweights from yesteryear.

Using this criteria, he wouldn't be rated anywhere near as highly.

[jamesmcdonnell]

A bit of a funny thread. Surely there's not enough data is rank him very accurately. His level of opposition doesn't seem particularly outstanding. He only has to have one stoppage loss next year and he'd be a flash in the pan. There's any number of good cruiserweights from other generations who would potentially test him to his limits. All the cruiserweights the young crowd here seem to be able to throw up are Holyfield, Haye and Bellew?!

Agreed.

Case in point, Donald Curry had an extraordinarily high peak between 1983 and 1986, when he was rated on a pound-for-pound level above the likes of Tommy Hearns, Michael Spinks, Mike McCallum, Aaron Pryor and Azumah Nelson, but then Lloyd Honeyghan upset the applecart and the “Cobra” very quickly became an ordinary fighter on an overnight basis.

I’m not suggesting for one second that Oleksandr Usyk is destined to follow the same fate, but it’s not entirely unreasonable to consider this as being a possibility.

Also, it’s highly likely that heavyweights from yesteryear, such as Mike Tyson, Ken Norton, Larry Holmes, George Foreman and Muhammad Ali, would have all been physically capable of making the 200lbs cruiserweight limit, based on the fact that their day-of the-fight official weights were consistently around the 215lbs mark (during their physical primes).

So if people insist on comparing Oleksandr Usyk to fighters that could have made 200lbs, then these sort of guys cannot be ignored.

Foremans trainer used to force him to weight drain. He walked around over 250. No way he makes CW.

[Enlightened-One]

A bit of a funny thread. Surely there's not enough data is rank him very accurately. His level of opposition doesn't seem particularly outstanding. He only has to have one stoppage loss next year and he'd be a flash in the pan. There's any number of good cruiserweights from other generations who would potentially test him to his limits. All the cruiserweights the young crowd here seem to be able to throw up are Holyfield, Haye and Bellew?!

Agreed.

Case in point, Donald Curry had an extraordinarily high peak between 1983 and 1986, when he was rated on a pound-for-pound level above the likes of Tommy Hearns, Michael Spinks, Mike McCallum, Aaron Pryor and Azumah Nelson, but then Lloyd Honeyghan upset the applecart and the “Cobra” very quickly became an ordinary fighter on an overnight basis.

I’m not suggesting for one second that Oleksandr Usyk is destined to follow the same fate, but it’s not entirely unreasonable to consider this as being a possibility.

Also, it’s highly likely that heavyweights from yesteryear, such as Mike Tyson, Ken Norton, Larry Holmes, George Foreman and Muhammad Ali, would have all been physically capable of making the 200lbs cruiserweight limit, based on the fact that their day-of the-fight official weights were consistently around the 215lbs mark (during their physical primes).

So if people insist on comparing Oleksandr Usyk to fighters that could have made 200lbs, then these sort of guys cannot be ignored.

Foremans trainer used to force him to weight drain. He walked around over 250. No way he makes CW.

George Foreman fought every five weeks on average between the start of his career in 1969 and the first Joe Frazier bout of 1973. His average official ballpark weight was consistently 217lbs. On some occasions he fought as regularly as every few days, or once per week or every fortnight, but he still consistently weighed around the 217lbs mark.

First of all, he was a heavyweight fighter, so he didn’t have to weight drain himself via dehydration to avoid liquids and artificially lose a significant amount of weight within 24 hours or so. Also, when George was competing, the official weigh-ins took place on the day of the fight.

Second, for a lot of his bouts, it would have been physically impossible to lose and regain that amount of weight so frequently in such short time periods anyway. Check his resume via BoxRec and then consider the absurd nature of your claim.

I don't care if you disagree with me, but the actual numbers and dates cannot be interpreted otherwise.

Simply put: what you've just claimed cannot possibly be true!

[jamesmcdonnell]

Agreed.

Case in point, Donald Curry had an extraordinarily high peak between 1983 and 1986, when he was rated on a pound-for-pound level above the likes of Tommy Hearns, Michael Spinks, Mike McCallum, Aaron Pryor and Azumah Nelson, but then Lloyd Honeyghan upset the applecart and the “Cobra” very quickly became an ordinary fighter on an overnight basis.

I’m not suggesting for one second that Oleksandr Usyk is destined to follow the same fate, but it’s not entirely unreasonable to consider this as being a possibility.

Also, it’s highly likely that heavyweights from yesteryear, such as Mike Tyson, Ken Norton, Larry Holmes, George Foreman and Muhammad Ali, would have all been physically capable of making the 200lbs cruiserweight limit, based on the fact that their day-of the-fight official weights were consistently around the 215lbs mark (during their physical primes).

So if people insist on comparing Oleksandr Usyk to fighters that could have made 200lbs, then these sort of guys cannot be ignored.

Foremans trainer used to force him to weight drain. He walked around over 250. No way he makes CW.

George Foreman fought every five weeks on average between the start of his career in 1969 and the first Joe Frazier bout of 1973. His average official ballpark weight was consistently 217lbs. On some occasions he fought as regularly as every few days, or once per week or every fortnight, but he still consistently weighed around the 217lbs mark.

First of all, he was a heavyweight fighter, so he didn’t have to weight drain himself via dehydration to avoid liquids and artificially lose a significant amount of weight within 24 hours or so. Also, when George was competing, the official weigh-ins took place on the day of the fight.

Second, for a lot of his bouts, it would have been physically impossible to lose and regain that amount of weight so frequently in such short time periods anyway. Check his resume via BoxRec and then consider the absurd nature of your claim.

I don't care if you disagree with me, but the actual numbers and dates cannot be interpreted otherwise.

Simply put: what you've just claimed cannot possibly be true!

Read his autobiography, his trainer dick saddler I think it was, used to force him to cut weight, because he believer it kept him meaner.

[Enlightened-One]

Foremans trainer used to force him to weight drain. He walked around over 250. No way he makes CW.

George Foreman fought every five weeks on average between the start of his career in 1969 and the first Joe Frazier bout of 1973. His average official ballpark weight was consistently 217lbs. On some occasions he fought as regularly as every few days, or once per week or every fortnight, but he still consistently weighed around the 217lbs mark.

First of all, he was a heavyweight fighter, so he didn’t have to weight drain himself via dehydration to avoid liquids and artificially lose a significant amount of weight within 24 hours or so. Also, when George was competing, the official weigh-ins took place on the day of the fight.

Second, for a lot of his bouts, it would have been physically impossible to lose and regain that amount of weight so frequently in such short time periods anyway. Check his resume via BoxRec and then consider the absurd nature of your claim.

I don't care if you disagree with me, but the actual numbers and dates cannot be interpreted otherwise.

Simply put: what you've just claimed cannot possibly be true!

Read his autobiography, his trainer dick saddler I think it was, used to force him to cut weight, because he believer it kept him meaner.

People embellish stories to make them more intriguing and to help sell books. However, the facts cannot be disputed.

George Foreman competed in 38 bouts from the start of his career in 1969 until his title winning effort against Joe Frazier in 1973, covering a 3½ year time period.

His mathematical average weight for those 38 bouts is precisely 217lbs, when he was competing (on average) every 34 days.

You seem to be a fairly intelligent guy... when you look at Foreman's resume... in terms of his weight and how often he fought between 1969 and 1973, are you seriously telling me that I'm wrong?

Now that I've addressed your issue over George Foreman, what about the other heavyweight fighters from yesteryear that I listed, which you refrained from commenting on?

[Ruthless-RKO]

This is how good he is.. USYK!!

[Pukka Cheese]

Usyk is fornicating awesome

Just needs to get Bellew out of the way then no more weight cutting.
His footwork will give alot of the big guys fits imo.

[gilgamesh]

After seeing Usyk's dominating performance over Gassiev to unify the Cruiserweight world titles, where does he place in the Cruiserweight all time rankings? Against the likes of Holyfield, Haye etc

He's already #2. Haye doesn't have a Cruiserweight resume as good as Usyk's.

I think he may wind up having more success as a Heavyweight than Haye had as well, but that remains to be seen.

[gilgamesh]

1. Holyfield
2. Usyk
3. Haye

James Toney is #3 to me.

[KiwiRider]

He can't really claim to be champ until he beats Tony Bellew

Nice one

[ewenhay]

George Foreman fought every five weeks on average between the start of his career in 1969 and the first Joe Frazier bout of 1973. His average official ballpark weight was consistently 217lbs. On some occasions he fought as regularly as every few days, or once per week or every fortnight, but he still consistently weighed around the 217lbs mark.

First of all, he was a heavyweight fighter, so he didn’t have to weight drain himself via dehydration to avoid liquids and artificially lose a significant amount of weight within 24 hours or so. Also, when George was competing, the official weigh-ins took place on the day of the fight.

Second, for a lot of his bouts, it would have been physically impossible to lose and regain that amount of weight so frequently in such short time periods anyway. Check his resume via BoxRec and then consider the absurd nature of your claim.

I don't care if you disagree with me, but the actual numbers and dates cannot be interpreted otherwise.

Simply put: what you've just claimed cannot possibly be true!

Read his autobiography, his trainer dick saddler I think it was, used to force him to cut weight, because he believer it kept him meaner.

People embellish stories to make them more intriguing and to help sell books. However, the facts cannot be disputed.

George Foreman competed in 38 bouts from the start of his career in 1969 until his title winning effort against Joe Frazier in 1973, covering a 3½ year time period.

His mathematical average weight for those 38 bouts is precisely 217lbs, when he was competing (on average) every 34 days.

You seem to be a fairly intelligent guy... when you look at Foreman's resume... in terms of his weight and how often he fought between 1969 and 1973, are you seriously telling me that I'm wrong?

Now that I've addressed your issue over George Foreman, what about the other heavyweight fighters from yesteryear that I listed, which you refrained from commenting on?

Hang on.

Are you saying that we need to consider any heavyweight that you think might have made the current cruiserweight limit in the all time cruiserweight rankings even though they never fought at cruiserweight and there's no evidence they could have made that weight or would even have wanted to?

Ludicrous.

[gilgamesh]

I didn't really notice anywhere where he said that ^

[TooMuch]

and not just Russian idiotic losers living in basements.

Hey!

[jamamb]

I didn't really notice anywhere where he said that ^

up the page a bit he kinda says something like it, bringing in guys like ali, foreman, tyson etc to compare ....see the quoted part below

but i dont think most ppl really are comparing usyk to guys that didnt fight at cruiser but might have been able to, i think ppl mainly compare him on an inter generational basis with guys who actually had cruiserweight careers and have a standing as cruisers

i mean the ops question was 'where does he place in the Cruiserweight all time rankings?'

Also, it’s highly likely that heavyweights from yesteryear, such as Mike Tyson, Ken Norton, Larry Holmes, George Foreman and Muhammad Ali, would have all been physically capable of making the 200lbs cruiserweight limit, based on the fact that their day-of the-fight official weights were consistently around the 215lbs mark (during their physical primes).

So if people insist on comparing Oleksandr Usyk to fighters that could have made 200lbs, then these sort of guys cannot be ignored.

[Enlightened-One]

I didn't really notice anywhere where he said that ^

You're right. I didn't. Thanks for keeping note.