controversial descisions in ali-fights!?

[Sequitorian]

Bob Sheridan has ruined way too many boxing videos ...

[Duran1970]

I had

Ali 7-3 over Jones
Norton/Ali II 6-6
Norton/Ali III 9-6 Norton
Ali 8-7 over Young 68-66 if you count "knockdown" in the 12th when the ref started counting..
Shavers 8-6-1 Ali..

[BoxBuzz]

Jimmy Young quote...
"The reason I kept ducking through the ropes, seriously, was to take some of the pressure off me."


So the ref had every right to start counting in the 12th.


In the end the headline was simply "Jimmy Young ducks out of championship"


And it's flat out true.......unless he simply couldn't take the pressure......which is what he himself claims. In which case....it's a genuine win for Ali.

[Tuan_Jim]

lol at any controversy over the ali vs foreman count, so many ppl too dim to realize that bob sheridans dubbed over commentary wasnt following the real count , he started late and was behind

Sheridan was at ringside. In the full telecast he's on screen numerous times. His count is off, but he is there.

[Sidney Carton]

I dont know, if the second Ali-Liston-Fight was fake. Theres no doubt in my opinion that Liston was hit very hard and he was moving foreward. maybe he he hadent enough guts to fight any further because he thought Ali would beat him up. But I doubt he took a dive intentionally. It reminds me ab bit on Tyson vs Clifford Etienne. Tyson hit him extremly hard and Etienne wasent interested in fighting any further and waitet till the ref counted him out.

What a clueless comment.

Liston did fight further in that fight.

[Sidney Carton]

Jimmy Young quote...
"The reason I kept ducking through the ropes, seriously, was to take some of the pressure off me."


So the ref had every right to start counting in the 12th.


In the end the headline was simply "Jimmy Young ducks out of championship"


And it's flat out true.......unless he simply couldn't take the pressure......which is what he himself claims. In which case....it's a genuine win for Ali.

WHERE did you get that so-called "quote" ?

[BoxBuzz]

I honestly found it on a web site just recently. And as well all know if it's there it has to be true.

I'll go back and check the source. He also said something to the effect of "You had to REALLY beat Ali back in those days."


At any rate, that last round, and his constant throwing his head out of the ring did honestly cost him the match. It was his to lose.....and HE is responsible for the outcome....especially if he did not need to put his head out....and if he needed it....well, it's back to a legit win for his opponent.

I.M.H.O.

[Sidney Carton]

I honestly found it on a web site just recently. And as well all know if it's there it has to be true.

I'll go back and check the source. He also said something to the effect of "You had to REALLY beat Ali back in those days."


At any rate, that last round, and his constant throwing his head out of the ring did honestly cost him the match. It was his to lose.....and HE is responsible for the outcome....especially if he did not need to put his head out....and if he needed it....well, it's back to a legit win for his opponent.

I.M.H.O.

Some real quotes re Ali-Young fight---

Angelo Dundee after the fight--"He [Ali} never looked so bad."

Budini Brown and Ali's brother Rachman ALI--on split screen of TV broadcast during the later rounds while Ali was fighting Young--"Your'e losing, Ali. Your'e losing."

Ferdie Pacheco--"Jimmy Young was fighting a legend, and he did very, very well."

And IMHO--If Ali won this fight, then Japan won World War Two.

[Ambling Alp II]

We can spin things however we want to with anyone.
Take the 2nd best heavyweight, Joe Louis.

Most thought he lost to Walcott in their first fight.
His fights against Tommy Farr and Godoy were closer than some of those mentioned in regard to Ali.
He hit Buddy Baer after the bell and Baer was the one disqualified.
Louis hit Schmeling several times in the kidneys without even a warning.

Ali himself had things go against him that are rarely talked about:
In the first Quarry fight, Quarry literally picked Ali up in the first round. Nothing from the ref.
He only got a 10-9 round against Dunn even though he scored a knockdown.
The Berbick fight was much closer than the scoring.
The referee stopped the round because he thought he heard the bell when Ali had Frazier hurt in their second fight. If the situation was reversed, you would never hear the end of it.

[BoxBuzz]

I honestly found it on a web site just recently. And as well all know if it's there it has to be true.

I'll go back and check the source. He also said something to the effect of "You had to REALLY beat Ali back in those days."


At any rate, that last round, and his constant throwing his head out of the ring did honestly cost him the match. It was his to lose.....and HE is responsible for the outcome....especially if he did not need to put his head out....and if he needed it....well, it's back to a legit win for his opponent.

I.M.H.O.

Some real quotes re Ali-Young fight---

Angelo Dundee after the fight--"He [Ali} never looked so bad."

Budini Brown and Ali's brother Rachman ALI--on split screen of TV broadcast during the later rounds while Ali was fighting Young--"Your'e losing, Ali. Your'e losing."

Ferdie Pacheco--"Jimmy Young was fighting a legend, and he did very, very well."

And IMHO--If Ali won this fight, then Japan won World War Two.

Fair enough...cite your sources......

Also.....how did you interpret Jimmy's behavior? Was it a good plan? A strategic plot to put Ali off his game? (As if he really had to do anything to make him look worse) Or was he winning by such a phenomenal amount that doing what he did simply should not have been factored by the judges? Should the ref NOT have started counting? IF he really wanted to win, seems to me all he had to do was behave in that fight. And the rest would have been history.


Like I say....Young may have won the fight......but he didn't manage to score the win in the "boxing match". Plain and simple.

Not the first or last time that the fight winner walked away the match loser.

[Sidney Carton]

The referee stopped the round because he thought he heard the bell when Ali had Frazier hurt in their second fight. If the situation was reversed, you would never hear the end of it.

The referee jabbed his fingers hard into Joe Frazier's eye in the 10tth round of the first Ali-Frazier fight.

If the situation was reversed, you would never hear the end of it.

[FruitStealer]

Jimmy Young style was somewhat effective but ugly as hell, and made other boxers look ugly. He used all the dirty tactics except for rabbit punches, even getting the head off the ropes when he was in trouble. WTF is that?

Never liked him as a boxer, and of course Ali won that fight clearly in my book.
Didn't liked his fight against Foreman neither.

Ali-Liston 2 was clearly a dive from Liston. Well, not strictly a dive because Liston got caught with a perfect real blow, but he could stand up if he wanted.
Anyway, Ali surely would win if the fight carried on.

[Ambling Alp II]

The referee stopped the round because he thought he heard the bell when Ali had Frazier hurt in their second fight. If the situation was reversed, you would never hear the end of it.

The referee jabbed his fingers hard into Joe Frazier's eye in the 10tth round of the first Ali-Frazier fight.

If the situation was reversed, you would never hear the end of it.

We hardly would have heard of it at all, just like almost anything else that went against Ali.

[Sidney Carton]

My two cents:


Ali-Liston II
Phantom punch was real, caused a flash kd and Liston decided to quit.

Garbage.

The fight continued.

Liston continued fighting until the ref stopped it.

You don;t have the attention span of a two year old if you didn't see that.

[Sequitorian]

It was the best of times ... it was the worst of times ... ...

[Sidney Carton]

It was the best of times ... it was the worst of times ... ...

You stole that from somewhere.

Goethe?

West Indian Lesbian author?

Victor Hugo?

Heinrich Heine?

Jack Blackburn?

Cervantes?

Dante?

Budini Brown?

Scarlett O'Hara?

Al Gore?

Nancy Pelosi?

Silas Marner?

J. Edgar Hoover?

Nikola Tesla?

Henry Armstrong?

John Curry?

Aaron Pryor?

Apollodorus of Carystus?

Sonny Corleone?

Albrecht Dürer?

Isaac Newton?

Sandy Saddler?

Hester Pyrnne?

Prince Al-Waleed?

Richard Dunn?

Mordecai 'Three Finger' Brown?


Time for you to come clean.

[BoxBuzz]

My two cents:


Ali-Liston II
Phantom punch was real, caused a flash kd and Liston decided to quit.

Garbage.

The fight continued.

Liston continued fighting until the ref stopped it.

You don;t have the attention span of a two year old if you didn't see that.

I don't disagree with anything you said......he did get up and was ready to resume. Though the KD to my eyes is a physical and forensic reality. And it did seem to take some wind out of his sails.

Do you imagine Liston was about to open up an energetic can of whup-ass on the younger man? Or do you think he was pretty happy to just let things be? I'll roll the film again, and see if I can detect any regret, anger, outrage in Liston. It looked like he had thrown in the towel mentally, emotionally, and maybe physically. Except there is no evidence of a towel. I did look for the towel....so I do understand that he didn't ACTUALLY throw in a towel.

[Sequitorian]

It was the best of times ... it was the worst of times ... ...

You stole that from somewhere.

Goethe?

West Indian Lesbian author?

Victor Hugo?

... (etc.) ...

Time for you to come clean.

... I would say borrowed ... (as did you ... Syd) ... ...

[hhaehre]

My two cents:


Ali-Liston II
Phantom punch was real, caused a flash kd and Liston decided to quit.

Garbage.

The fight continued.

Liston continued fighting until the ref stopped it.

You don;t have the attention span of a two year old if you didn't see that.

You must be legally blind. Liston tried to stay down for as long as he could and really made a meal out of that punch, but Walcott took so long that eventually he had to get up. If you believe that the phantom punch was so hard that Liston needed several attempts to get up then I have some swamp land in Florida for ya.

[jvincent]

You must be legally blind. Liston tried to stay down for as long as he could and really made a meal out of that punch, but Walcott took so long that eventually he had to get up. If you believe that the phantom punch was so hard that Liston needed several attempts to get up then I have some swamp land in Florida for ya.

Might be wrong but im pretty sure the mob set that up.

[Sidney Carton]

My two cents:


Ali-Liston II
Phantom punch was real, caused a flash kd and Liston decided to quit.

Garbage.

The fight continued.

Liston continued fighting until the ref stopped it.

You don;t have the attention span of a two year old if you didn't see that.

You must be legally blind. Liston tried to stay down for as long as he could and really made a meal out of that punch, but Walcott took so long that eventually he had to get up. If you believe that the phantom punch was so hard that Liston needed several attempts to get up then I have some swamp land in Florida for ya.

The franticness and illogic of Ali fans is always amusing to watch when they are confronted with the truth.

[Sidney Carton]

It was the best of times ... it was the worst of times ... ...

You stole that from somewhere.

Goethe?

West Indian Lesbian author?

Victor Hugo?

... (etc.) ...

Time for you to come clean.

... I would say borrowed ... (as did you ... Syd) ... ...

I rest my case. You posted that without indentifying it as a quote from Shakespeare Sonnet number 1,417.

[Sequitorian]

You stole that from somewhere.

Goethe?

West Indian Lesbian author?

Victor Hugo?

... (etc.) ...

Time for you to come clean.

... I would say borrowed ... (as did you ... Syd) ... ...

I rest my case. You posted that without indentifying it as a quote from Shakespeare Sonnet number 1,417.

Are you new at this?

[hhaehre]

Garbage.

The fight continued.

Liston continued fighting until the ref stopped it.

You don;t have the attention span of a two year old if you didn't see that.

You must be legally blind. Liston tried to stay down for as long as he could and really made a meal out of that punch, but Walcott took so long that eventually he had to get up. If you believe that the phantom punch was so hard that Liston needed several attempts to get up then I have some swamp land in Florida for ya.

The franticness and illogic of Ali fans is always amusing to watch when they are confronted with the truth.

I'm not even a particular fan of Ali, but what is the truth in your opinion?
Walcott finally stopped it because Liston had been down for more than 10 seconds. Do you think it was a legit ko, that Liston couldn't get up from that punch?

[Sidney Carton]

Walcott finally stopped it because Liston had been down for more than 10 seconds. Do you think it was a legit ko, that Liston couldn't get up from that punch?

Walcott never counted.

Walcott never made Ali go to a neutral corner.

Walcott acted at the direction of Nat Fleischer, who was a spectator and not an official at the fight.

DID YOU MISS all of that?