Joshua vs. Povetkin, a mismatch or not ?

[Luis Fernando12]

If Povetkin took drugs, then why didn't he grow as big as Joshua in terms of height, reach, weight and muscle mass? Or even become faster? The fact that he didn't, proves that he never took drugs. Or if he did, then they were useless.

At this stage of his life likely didn't have access to to the height enhancing and arm lengthening drugs since, you know, they don't exist.

So what relevance would those supposed 'drugs' have, if they can't even enhance Povetkin enough to make him as big as Joshua in terms of overall size? Or are you willing to admit that those supposed drugs were totally irrelevant all along?

Funny how you failed to address my other points about physical strength, speed and muscle mass. Since modern drugs can indeed enhance those attributes. So again I ask, why didn't Povetkin become as muscular or as physically strong or as fast as Joshua, if he really took drugs (assuming the drugs were at all effective in the first place)?

Do you realize how idiotic it is to complain about a little mouse (Povetkin) using drugs to fight against a T-Rex (Anthony Joshua)? When those very drugs aren't even capable of making that mouse (Povetkin) as big as Joshua. So what good would those supposed drug do, if those drugs won't allow Povetkin to close the gap in size and strength with Joshua? Who cares and why would it even matter?

No amount of drugs would prevent this bout from ever being a mismatch for Povetkin, unless he can literally become as strong, big and muscular as Joshua. So complaining about drugs is one of the most idiotic things I've seen some fans do around these boxing forums.

[Luis Fernando12]

I know, but Tony Tucker, Michael Spinks and Frank Bruno did exist, just like they got Povetkin, Klitschko and AJ nowadays.

Those guys weren't modern type super heavyweights. Only Lennox Lewis was the closest thing you'd get to one that Mike Tyson fought, and we all know what happened to Mike Tyson when he fought a 37 year old, washed up version of Lennox Lewis who was older than Tyson during their fight.

Lennox was 36 and Tyson was 36 three weeks after the fight. Also note that Tyson became the champion of the world over 15 years before, that's like fighting Lennox Lewis in 2008, over 5 years after Lewis retired and then say "look, I beat the legend Lennox Lewis!".
Tyson lost nearly all of his fights ever after against guys like Danny and Kevin, all of them on KO and all of them in less rounds then it took Lennox Lewis.

My point still stands. Tyson never beat a modern type ELITE super heavyweight.

[punchoutsb]

If Povetkin took drugs, then why didn't he grow as big as Joshua in terms of height, reach, weight and muscle mass? Or even become faster? The fact that he didn't, proves that he never took drugs. Or if he did, then they were useless.

At this stage of his life likely didn't have access to to the height enhancing and arm lengthening drugs since, you know, they don't exist.

So what relevance would those supposed 'drugs' have, if they can't even enhance Povetkin enough to make him as big as Joshua in terms of overall size? Or are you willing to admit that those supposed drugs were totally irrelevant all along?

Funny how you failed to address my other points about physical strength, speed and muscle mass. Since modern drugs can indeed enhance those attributes. So again I ask, why didn't Povetkin become as muscular or as physically strong or as fast as Joshua, if he really took drugs (assuming the drugs were at all effective in the first place)?

Do you realize how idiotic it is to complain about a little mouse (Povetkin) using drugs to fight against a T-Rex (Anthony Joshua)? When those very drugs aren't even capable of making that mouse (Povetkin) as big as Joshua. So what good would those supposed drug do, if those drugs won't allow Povetkin to close the gap in size and strength with Joshua? Who cares and why would it even matter?

No amount of drugs would prevent this bout from ever being a mismatch for Povetkin, unless he can literally become as strong, big and muscular as Joshua. So complaining about drugs is one of the most idiotic things I've seen some fans do around these boxing forums.

I'm really not sure what you're going on about, I was just pointing out that your knowledge of PEDs is nonexistent. But this post of yours did a better job of showing that than mine did so thank you

[Luis Fernando12]

At this stage of his life likely didn't have access to to the height enhancing and arm lengthening drugs since, you know, they don't exist.

So what relevance would those supposed 'drugs' have, if they can't even enhance Povetkin enough to make him as big as Joshua in terms of overall size? Or are you willing to admit that those supposed drugs were totally irrelevant all along?

Funny how you failed to address my other points about physical strength, speed and muscle mass. Since modern drugs can indeed enhance those attributes. So again I ask, why didn't Povetkin become as muscular or as physically strong or as fast as Joshua, if he really took drugs (assuming the drugs were at all effective in the first place)?

Do you realize how idiotic it is to complain about a little mouse (Povetkin) using drugs to fight against a T-Rex (Anthony Joshua)? When those very drugs aren't even capable of making that mouse (Povetkin) as big as Joshua. So what good would those supposed drug do, if those drugs won't allow Povetkin to close the gap in size and strength with Joshua? Who cares and why would it even matter?

No amount of drugs would prevent this bout from ever being a mismatch for Povetkin, unless he can literally become as strong, big and muscular as Joshua. So complaining about drugs is one of the most idiotic things I've seen some fans do around these boxing forums.

I'm really not sure what you're going on about, I was just pointing out that your knowledge of PEDs is nonexistent. But this post of yours did a better job of showing that than mine did so thank you

So how would drugs be of any significance, if it literally couldn't make a much smaller man (Povetkin) as big as the much bigger man (Joshua)? Or as strong? Or as muscular?

We have a chubby, pudgy, fat and a fleshy little 6 foot 1 midget in Povetkin and we are what? Scared that he is about to face a SIGNIFICANTLY stronger and a larger man in terms of height, weight, reach and muscle mass using some irrelevant drugs which don't even make him as strong or as big in size to that opponent? And the worse thing is, we are scared for Joshua and not for the much more disadvantaged Povetkin (irrespective of whatever useless drugs he takes).

[punchoutsb]

So what relevance would those supposed 'drugs' have, if they can't even enhance Povetkin enough to make him as big as Joshua in terms of overall size? Or are you willing to admit that those supposed drugs were totally irrelevant all along?

Funny how you failed to address my other points about physical strength, speed and muscle mass. Since modern drugs can indeed enhance those attributes. So again I ask, why didn't Povetkin become as muscular or as physically strong or as fast as Joshua, if he really took drugs (assuming the drugs were at all effective in the first place)?

Do you realize how idiotic it is to complain about a little mouse (Povetkin) using drugs to fight against a T-Rex (Anthony Joshua)? When those very drugs aren't even capable of making that mouse (Povetkin) as big as Joshua. So what good would those supposed drug do, if those drugs won't allow Povetkin to close the gap in size and strength with Joshua? Who cares and why would it even matter?

No amount of drugs would prevent this bout from ever being a mismatch for Povetkin, unless he can literally become as strong, big and muscular as Joshua. So complaining about drugs is one of the most idiotic things I've seen some fans do around these boxing forums.

I'm really not sure what you're going on about, I was just pointing out that your knowledge of PEDs is nonexistent. But this post of yours did a better job of showing that than mine did so thank you

So how would drugs be of any significance, if it literally couldn't make a much smaller man (Povetkin) as big as the much bigger man (Joshua)? Or as strong? Or as muscular?

We have a chubby, pudgy, fat and a fleshy little 6 foot 1 midget in Povetkin and we are what? Scared that he is about to face a SIGNIFICANTLY stronger and a larger man in terms of height, weight, reach and muscle mass using some irrelevant drugs which don't even make him as strong or as big in size to that opponent? And the worse thing is, we are scared for Joshua and not for the much more disadvantaged Povetkin (irrespective of whatever useless drugs he takes).

There are plenty of drugs that add muscle and strength, though that wouldn't necessarily be beneficial in ring in the first place. There are no drugs to lengthen your arms or make you grow taller. You're a little too focused on the physique of fighters. There's just a little more to boxing than that.

[skinnysteve]

if sasha hits the underwearsalesman on the jaw like he did to david price game over

[Thomastearns]

if sasha hits the underwearsalesman on the jaw like he did to david price game over

Yes, but that was only a size mismatch. This one seems a mismatch in almost every area except perhaps technique and temperament. Povetkin looks like a very cool customer inside the ring. AJ is going that way too.

As you said though if Povetkin lands it could be all over. That's why we will watch.

[Luis Fernando12]

I'm really not sure what you're going on about, I was just pointing out that your knowledge of PEDs is nonexistent. But this post of yours did a better job of showing that than mine did so thank you

So how would drugs be of any significance, if it literally couldn't make a much smaller man (Povetkin) as big as the much bigger man (Joshua)? Or as strong? Or as muscular?

We have a chubby, pudgy, fat and a fleshy little 6 foot 1 midget in Povetkin and we are what? Scared that he is about to face a SIGNIFICANTLY stronger and a larger man in terms of height, weight, reach and muscle mass using some irrelevant drugs which don't even make him as strong or as big in size to that opponent? And the worse thing is, we are scared for Joshua and not for the much more disadvantaged Povetkin (irrespective of whatever useless drugs he takes).

There are plenty of drugs that add muscle and strength, though that wouldn't necessarily be beneficial in ring in the first place. There are no drugs to lengthen your arms or make you grow taller. You're a little too focused on the physique of fighters. There's just a little more to boxing than that.

Having added physical strength would never not be of benefit in boxing. That's utter nonsense! Especially in the heavyweight division which is mostly about physical strength and size advantages.

Weight and size is the most important thing in boxing. Hence why weight divisions exist. So a much smaller sized boxer like Povetkin taking drugs when fighting against someone much bigger like Joshua is useless, unless those drugs make him as big and strong as Joshua first.

[punchoutsb]

So how would drugs be of any significance, if it literally couldn't make a much smaller man (Povetkin) as big as the much bigger man (Joshua)? Or as strong? Or as muscular?

We have a chubby, pudgy, fat and a fleshy little 6 foot 1 midget in Povetkin and we are what? Scared that he is about to face a SIGNIFICANTLY stronger and a larger man in terms of height, weight, reach and muscle mass using some irrelevant drugs which don't even make him as strong or as big in size to that opponent? And the worse thing is, we are scared for Joshua and not for the much more disadvantaged Povetkin (irrespective of whatever useless drugs he takes).

There are plenty of drugs that add muscle and strength, though that wouldn't necessarily be beneficial in ring in the first place. There are no drugs to lengthen your arms or make you grow taller. You're a little too focused on the physique of fighters. There's just a little more to boxing than that.

Having added physical strength would never not be of benefit in boxing. That's utter nonsense! Especially in the heavyweight division which is mostly about physical strength and size advantages.

Weight and size is the most important thing in boxing. Hence why weight divisions exist. So a much smaller sized boxer like Povetkin taking drugs when fighting against someone much bigger like Joshua is useless, unless those drugs make him as big and strong as Joshua first.

You should just stop replying to me. I haven't the foggiest idea what point you're desperately trying to make and your lack of understanding on very basic things like the difference between strength and power is even more alarming than your lack of understanding of drugs and boxing.

[BroughtonRulesRefuge]

Primo Carnera’s average weight for those bouts where an official weight was actually recorded is 267lbs (as per his BoxRec resume). The Italian’s average weight for his world championship bouts was 264lbs, whilst weighing as little as 260lbs for his career-defining performance when he initially captured the title by stopping Jack Sharkey.

For the last three years, AJ’s average weight has been 248lbs, but we’ve seen him weigh as much as 250lbs for the Klitschko bout and also 254lbs against Carlos Takam.

Anthony Joshua is half an inch taller than Primo Carnera was. And the Brit would very likely have appeared to be a bigger physical specimen (certainly more imposing) than the Italian, due to his larger muscles, lower body fat levels and consequently better muscle definition.

If you feel that my calculations are wrong, then provide details of how you calculated your fictional and wildly inaccurate “275lbs” figure. Wikipedia doesn't actually list Carnera as being 6' 9", so you also need to explain the reason why you made this other dishonest claim.

Like I said before, in the context of the heavyweight division, Primo Carnera was almost certainly NOT much bigger than Anthony Joshua.

- Now there you go again my dear outed insipid one, further sharpening the point on your microcephalic noggin. Wiki is a publicly edited source any idjit as yourself can edit. Here is are the current basics that have recently been edited, and keep in mind because of his gigantism, he continued to grow through out his life, an unfortunate painful ending. And of course I could care lass about your stupid weight average, He near touched 290 lbs and turned pro at 266 and was seldom below those parameters, but as he sickened, he of course lost weight and shouldn't have even been boxing but for his management stole all his money to leave him destitute. He was a WW2 hero Italians look up to. Ever risk your life for your people?

Primo Carnera, nicknamed the Ambling Alp, was an Italian professional boxer and the World Heavyweight Champion from June 29, 1933, to June 14, 1934. Wikipedia
Born: October 26, 1906, Sequals, Italy
Died: June 29, 1967, Sequals, Italy
Height: 6′ 6″
Weight: 265 lbs
Spouse: Giuseppina Kovacic (m. 1939–1967)

Here he is past prime against Joe Louis. That scale is 4" high, making him at least 6-7 which has been his traditional height. Wiki recently downgraded the 6-5 Teofilo Stevenson to 6-3, but since heights are never officially measured, and even official weights can be tampered with, nothing like an era comparison of scale that Josh clearly lacks as big as he is:



Joe and Max Baer are gold standards of 6-2 height for another comparison where you can fully see this is the same model of scale. Primo in, what, size 20 triple Ds here?



Here's Primo duking it out with Mighty Joe Young, no doubt the way you see him. Gonna have to post a photo for us to snicker over and then get lost. You're worse than one of those fatted, slow witted summer flies after months of doggie doo:

[Ilya Muromets]

Primo Carnera really was in the 1949 movie "Mighty Joe Young", as an uncredited "strongman"!

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0041650/re ... de=desktop&

And here he is wrestling the famous Argentina Rocca! That match must have been some time in the 1950s. Carnera was a wrestler from the 1940s until the early 60s. He passed away in 1967.

[Ilya Muromets]

I like that! Starring Promo Carnera! That's when Hollywood was still making real movies instead of the brainwashing agitprop they do now.

[zorndeslammes]

Chris Byrd was a light heavyweight who liked good cooking more than road work. He parlayed that into stopping a big modern super heavyweight. So please; now and forever, miss me with that.

As for this fight, Povetkin is old and small and was generally overrated. But he's legit top 5. And this forum's majority opinion was he'd roast Wilder head to head two years ago. Search it. The gap between AJ and everyone else is that big.

[Ilya Muromets]

All these guys going on about how "small" Pov is, look at his boxing record. Almost everyone he's fought has been bigger than he is. And... Is 38 "old"? Well, it depends upon your perspective. If you're like 12 it sounds like Methusala! It's usually still an OK age for a heavyweight boxer, though.

[candyslim]

For sure 38 isn't as old as it was in Jersey Joe's day, but not too many are as effective at 38 as they were at 30. Surely there can't be too much argument about that.

[Ilya Muromets]

For sure 38 isn't as old as it was in Jersey Joe's day, but not too many are as effective at 38 as they were at 30. Surely there can't be too much argument about that.

Agreed. Boxer years aren't quite as bad as dog years - what do they say, one dog year = 6 or 7 human years? - but one boxer year = maybe 1 1/2 human years, so a boxer is said to be old at 40, maybe equal to a 60 year old human.

[Luis Fernando12]

Lennox was 36 and Tyson was 36 three weeks after the fight. Also note that Tyson became the champion of the world over 15 years before, that's like fighting Lennox Lewis in 2008, over 5 years after Lewis retired and then say "look, I beat the legend Lennox Lewis!".
Tyson lost nearly all of his fights ever after against guys like Danny and Kevin, all of them on KO and all of them in less rounds then it took Lennox Lewis.

My point still stands. Tyson never beat a modern type ELITE super heavyweight.

Neither has Lennox Lewis

False! Lennox Lewis officially beat Vitali Klitschko! Mike Tyson failed to dominate when elite super heavyweights came around that knew how to use their size. Since then, the heavyweight division had always been about super heavyweights and not about irrelevant small heavyweights like Tyson.

[Luis Fernando12]

There are plenty of drugs that add muscle and strength, though that wouldn't necessarily be beneficial in ring in the first place. There are no drugs to lengthen your arms or make you grow taller. You're a little too focused on the physique of fighters. There's just a little more to boxing than that.

Having added physical strength would never not be of benefit in boxing. That's utter nonsense! Especially in the heavyweight division which is mostly about physical strength and size advantages.

Weight and size is the most important thing in boxing. Hence why weight divisions exist. So a much smaller sized boxer like Povetkin taking drugs when fighting against someone much bigger like Joshua is useless, unless those drugs make him as big and strong as Joshua first.

You should just stop replying to me. I haven't the foggiest idea what point you're desperately trying to make and your lack of understanding on very basic things like the difference between strength and power is even more alarming than your lack of understanding of drugs and boxing.

You responded to me first and you're not in a position to tell me what I should or shouldn't be doing.

Strength and power are practically one and the same thing.

Strength = the ability to lift a 225 pound object, 3 feet above the ground in one second.

Power = the ability to move a 225 pound object, 3 feet backwards with a single punch.

If an athlete possesses the necessary strength required to perform the former feat, then they also possess the necessary power required to perform the latter feat.

Strength = the ability to move an object a specific distance within a particular amount of time

Punching power = the ability to move an object after landing a punch, a specific distance within a particular amount of time.

Both punching power and physical strength are based on body mass and speed an athlete possesses. Considering Povetkin at no point was ever as big, never mind bigger than Joshua and was never faster than what he always was. Any talk about drugs improving him in that manner is a myth. Otherwise, we would've seen evidence of him growing much bigger in functional mass and / or speed.

[Luis Fernando12]

Chris Byrd was a light heavyweight who liked good cooking more than road work. He parlayed that into stopping a big modern super heavyweight. So please; now and forever, miss me with that.

As for this fight, Povetkin is old and small and was generally overrated. But he's legit top 5. And this forum's majority opinion was he'd roast Wilder head to head two years ago. Search it. The gap between AJ and everyone else is that big.

How exactly is Povetkin overrated? And Chris Byrd failed to dominate the heavyweight division with the other two elite super heavyweights around.

[ValMar]

Having added physical strength would never not be of benefit in boxing. That's utter nonsense! Especially in the heavyweight division which is mostly about physical strength and size advantages.

Weight and size is the most important thing in boxing. Hence why weight divisions exist. So a much smaller sized boxer like Povetkin taking drugs when fighting against someone much bigger like Joshua is useless, unless those drugs make him as big and strong as Joshua first.

You should just stop replying to me. I haven't the foggiest idea what point you're desperately trying to make and your lack of understanding on very basic things like the difference between strength and power is even more alarming than your lack of understanding of drugs and boxing.

You responded to me first and you're not in a position to tell me what I should or shouldn't be doing.

Strength and power are practically one and the same thing.

Strength = the ability to lift a 225 pound object, 3 feet above the ground in one second.

Power = the ability to move a 225 pound object, 3 feet backwards with a single punch.

If an athlete possesses the necessary strength required to perform the former feat, then they also possess the necessary power required to perform the latter feat.

Strength = the ability to move an object a specific distance within a particular amount of time

Punching power = the ability to move an object after landing a punch, a specific distance within a particular amount of time.

Both punching power and physical strength are based on body mass and speed an athlete possesses. Considering Povetkin at no point was ever as big, never mind bigger than Joshua and was never faster than what he always was. Any talk about drugs improving him in that manner is a myth. Otherwise, we would've seen evidence of him growing much bigger in functional mass and / or speed.

It is off topic, but, I have to remind you that there is/was an excellent example of the boxer with an average power and an excellent strength - Andre Ward.

[Luis Fernando12]

You should just stop replying to me. I haven't the foggiest idea what point you're desperately trying to make and your lack of understanding on very basic things like the difference between strength and power is even more alarming than your lack of understanding of drugs and boxing.

You responded to me first and you're not in a position to tell me what I should or shouldn't be doing.

Strength and power are practically one and the same thing.

Strength = the ability to lift a 225 pound object, 3 feet above the ground in one second.

Power = the ability to move a 225 pound object, 3 feet backwards with a single punch.

If an athlete possesses the necessary strength required to perform the former feat, then they also possess the necessary power required to perform the latter feat.

Strength = the ability to move an object a specific distance within a particular amount of time

Punching power = the ability to move an object after landing a punch, a specific distance within a particular amount of time.

Both punching power and physical strength are based on body mass and speed an athlete possesses. Considering Povetkin at no point was ever as big, never mind bigger than Joshua and was never faster than what he always was. Any talk about drugs improving him in that manner is a myth. Otherwise, we would've seen evidence of him growing much bigger in functional mass and / or speed.

It is off topic, but, I have to remind you that there is/was an excellent example of the boxer with an average power and an excellent strength - Andre Ward.

Andre Ward has never been that strong. I wouldn't even consider his style as being reliant on physical strength that much. One of the best examples of a boxer with ATG physical strength is Wladimir Klitschko. The dude has dropped multiple opponents and sent multiple opponents backwards over a meter with glancing looking punches and arm punches. Just take a look at what he did to Povetkin, who was never even dropped previously. That's the prime definition and example of a boxer showcasing the highest level of physical strength.

[ValMar]

You responded to me first and you're not in a position to tell me what I should or shouldn't be doing.

Strength and power are practically one and the same thing.

Strength = the ability to lift a 225 pound object, 3 feet above the ground in one second.

Power = the ability to move a 225 pound object, 3 feet backwards with a single punch.

If an athlete possesses the necessary strength required to perform the former feat, then they also possess the necessary power required to perform the latter feat.

Strength = the ability to move an object a specific distance within a particular amount of time

Punching power = the ability to move an object after landing a punch, a specific distance within a particular amount of time.

Both punching power and physical strength are based on body mass and speed an athlete possesses. Considering Povetkin at no point was ever as big, never mind bigger than Joshua and was never faster than what he always was. Any talk about drugs improving him in that manner is a myth. Otherwise, we would've seen evidence of him growing much bigger in functional mass and / or speed.

It is off topic, but, I have to remind you that there is/was an excellent example of the boxer with an average power and an excellent strength - Andre Ward.

Andre Ward has never been that strong. I wouldn't even consider his style as being reliant on physical strength that much. One of the best examples of a boxer with ATG physical strength is Wladimir Klitschko. The dude has dropped multiple opponents and sent multiple opponents backwards over a meter with glancing looking punches and arm punches. Just take a look at what he did to Povetkin, who was never even dropped previously. That's the prime definition and example of a boxer showcasing the highest level of physical strength.

I agree about Wlad, of course. Ward was very, very strong, this is/was obviously.

[Luis Fernando12]

It is off topic, but, I have to remind you that there is/was an excellent example of the boxer with an average power and an excellent strength - Andre Ward.

Andre Ward has never been that strong. I wouldn't even consider his style as being reliant on physical strength that much. One of the best examples of a boxer with ATG physical strength is Wladimir Klitschko. The dude has dropped multiple opponents and sent multiple opponents backwards over a meter with glancing looking punches and arm punches. Just take a look at what he did to Povetkin, who was never even dropped previously. That's the prime definition and example of a boxer showcasing the highest level of physical strength.

I agree about Wlad, of course. Ward was very, very strong, this is/was obviously.

Ward was a 'rough house' fighter. Which is different from a fighter who utilizes his physical strength advantage like Wladimir Klitschko. I'd classify Ward with the likes of Bernard Hopkins. Ward never appeared the absolute strongest to me.

[punchoutsb]

Having added physical strength would never not be of benefit in boxing. That's utter nonsense! Especially in the heavyweight division which is mostly about physical strength and size advantages.

Weight and size is the most important thing in boxing. Hence why weight divisions exist. So a much smaller sized boxer like Povetkin taking drugs when fighting against someone much bigger like Joshua is useless, unless those drugs make him as big and strong as Joshua first.

You should just stop replying to me. I haven't the foggiest idea what point you're desperately trying to make and your lack of understanding on very basic things like the difference between strength and power is even more alarming than your lack of understanding of drugs and boxing.

You responded to me first and you're not in a position to tell me what I should or shouldn't be doing.

Strength and power are practically one and the same thing.

Strength = the ability to lift a 225 pound object, 3 feet above the ground in one second.

Power = the ability to move a 225 pound object, 3 feet backwards with a single punch.

If an athlete possesses the necessary strength required to perform the former feat, then they also possess the necessary power required to perform the latter feat.

Strength = the ability to move an object a specific distance within a particular amount of time

Punching power = the ability to move an object after landing a punch, a specific distance within a particular amount of time.

Both punching power and physical strength are based on body mass and speed an athlete possesses. Considering Povetkin at no point was ever as big, never mind bigger than Joshua and was never faster than what he always was. Any talk about drugs improving him in that manner is a myth. Otherwise, we would've seen evidence of him growing much bigger in functional mass and / or speed.

No.

[Ilya Muromets]

No is correct. If sheer strength equaled effective punching power, power lifters and strongmen would be boxing champions. Actually boxing requires very specialized characteristics to be successful.