Underdogs and Mismatches

[HomicideHenry]

There is somewhat a wide discrepency between an underdog and a complete and utter rematch, as is the always conflicting argument between the shortest fight and quickest knock out.

An underdog is someone who has a chance, plain and simple. A mismatch is something so stacked against one of the two combatants that its logical to bet he/she will lose every time.

But then again, there are those who defy all logic altogether, despite how huge the odds, such as George Foreman in his comeback and possibly even James 'Buster' Douglas; even though in my opinion Douglas could have been one of the all-time greats, he just didn't have the motivation or better yet the heart and interest, in his own words "I am a fighter not an athlete."

Here are some examples, hand picked by myself, as to who I think were true under-dogs, but despite all odds stacked against them, wide margins or not, they already had the talent and experience to have pulled it off without a hitch neways:

1.) Jersey Joe Walcott- A garbage man by day and boxer by night, he took fights on short notice for extra cash, and was denied title shots earlier on in his career, and was screwed out of wins. Also with his advancing age, nobody really thought that in his 5th attempt at the Heavyweight crown he would beaten Ezzard Charles, but he did. He held the title of "oldest champion to win a title" at age 37 until 1994 when George Foreman won the title at age 45.

2.) James J. Braddock- At one time one of the best Light Heavyweights in the world, when the Depression hit after a crack at the Light Heavyweight crown which he failed to wrest from champion Loughran, Jim Braddock fought on short notice for quick earnings, often with broken hands, as well as searching for work during the day, often going without food. In 33 fights, he managed only to win 11, after his lone Light Heavyweight title shot, and was barred from the ring. His hands healed, was given a crack at #2 Heavyweight contender Corn Griffin, won surprisingly by KO, and then later on went to win the Heavyweight crown---though in reality, if Max Baer had not of clowned with Braddock, it would have been over as quick as it came.

3.) Sugar Ray Leonard- He suffered a detached retina and was banned from boxing. Had a cocaine problem, kicked it, and announced his comeback, to face much larger champion Marvelous Marvin Hagler. But even though he cut corners (12 rounds instead of 15, 12oz gloves instead of 10 etc) he managed to pull off a really close win over Hagler. Then he went for the super middleweight and Light Heavyweight crowns when he faced Donny Lalonde, winning both. Then he faced Hearns and Duran again, only to retire and return two more times, losing badly to Terry Norris and Hector Camacho.

That is just some of my favorite underdog stories. There are a few other under-dog stories, such as Gerry Cooney vs Larry Holmes, and in my personal opinion, minus the low blow point deductions, Cooney was doing remarkable against one of the greatest Heavyweight champions of all time, but I won't go in depth with it.

Now it's time for the mismatches. And I am sure every boxing fan has at least one fight that always comes to mind, myself I have many:

1.) McNeeley(s) vs Tyson & Patterson
2.) Rademacher vs Patterson
3.) Baker vs Hope
4.) Steele vs Mercer
5.) Morrison vs Mercer
6.) Wepner vs Ali
7.) Wepner vs Liston
8.) Wepner vs Foreman
9.) Martin vs Bowe
10.) Cummings vs Bruno

There have been many throughout history, some fights you can never tell if they are dives or not, it makes me raise my eyebrows sometimes looking at records of Reggie Strickland and Donnie Penelton, and makes me wonder, how someone with over 100 losses manages to face a legit title contender without being anywhere ranked near that person.

Fixes, dives, goes back in boxing as far as professional wrestling's carney roots, even before. It makes me wonder how in the hell someone could think Dee Collier back in 1985 knocked out "Human Anvil" Tex Cobb in a single round, or how Monte Masters, an Oklahoma hick who rarely fought out of his own state and fought nobodies managed to get a title match with a guy who would face Foreman and Cooper?

Or how Foreman managed to defend his linear Heavyweight title against "Who The Hell Is" Crawford Grimsely? Lots of things in boxing have been manipulated, but nonetheless, its smoke and mirrors, gimmicks and fakery.

I understand every once in a while giving someone a chance...but sincerly, imagine, lets say....

ERIC BUTTERBEAN ESCH, finally gets his chance at the big time, he breaks away from long time manager and promoter Art Dore, and signs with Don King to get one last opprotunity and finally prove himself as a fighter.

Esch trains harder than he ever has in his entire life, and his opponent?

HASIM "THE ROCK" RAHMAN. This is merely staged as for the WBC title, but considering Esch isn't anywhere near the top ten, even if by the freak occurence that he wins, the title cannot change hands---much like the Holyfield vs Cooper fight, as Cooper was a substitute for Holyfield's injured challenger.

Rahman has fought some of the best people out there, winning the title twice, and Esch has fought mostly hillbillies who threw on a pair of boxing gloves---his two best opponents were Peter McNeeley (KO 1st) and over 50yr old Larry Holmes (L10).

The chances would be 50-1 if not more. Hell Buster Douglas fought some really great fighters and was 20-1 against Tyson, so this could be a 100-1.

As much as I like The Bean, and I know in this sport a single punch can change the way of a fight, but even though I'd be rooting for the lovable fat man, I wouldnt know whether to yawn or laugh or cry when he hit the ground on the first punch of the first round, cus it was a fornicating certainty anyways.

Anyone else have their thoughts or opinions? Or want to list some of their most memorable mismatches that they can recollect or fav underdogs?

[kick asner]

Worst mismatch in a title fight between two big name fighters I would say was Joe Louis and Max Schmelling. I don't know if Schmelling even swung more than three times.

You could also make the case for Louis Schmelling one as being one of the all time biggest upsets.

Tyson/Berbick turned out to be a total mismatch.

Cooney/Spinks-mismatch

Hearns/Shuler-mismatch

Curry/MCcrory-mismatch

Norton/Bobick-mismatch

[Migz]

we have our upsets like foreman vs ali, liston vs clay, braddock vs baer, and even rahman vs lewis all these underdogs came out on top but there have been many clear mismathces in boxing i mean look at our recent time with mayweather vs sharmba

[BoxBuzz]

One of the most brutal mismatches was Ali Terrel and it didn't end in a KO, just 15 rounds of brutal punishment and imposed pain from Muhammad to Ernie. Ali Williams also fits in this catagory.

Early or Brutal KO's dont always indicate a mismatch other than a "momentary" mismatch when a lucky punch finds an unlucky jaw. You can't say that Hearns/Duran was a mismatch. Morrison/Mercer was no mismatch neither was Foreman- Norton or Shavers- Norton. But they ended quickly and brutaly. Bobick-Norton may have fallen in either catagory.

Calzage Lacy was a mismatch. There are many 12 and 15 round mismatches as well as early KO mismatches. And those can be far worse. Holmes Cobb comes to mind.

And because of Age difference Ali-Holmes was a mismatch. As was Foreman-Moorer......until a lucky punch found an unlucky jaw.

[Expug]

It didnt look like a mismatch going in but Duran -Davey Moore turned out to be a ferocious beating.

[kick asner]

Another fight that had mismatch written all over it was when Ali came back after his long layoff and carved up Jerry Quarry hitting him at will. Other than a couple of shots to the body Quarry basically spent his time swinging and missing while looking bad doing it. At no time in the fight did he show signs of being competitive.

Another one was Joe Fraizier and Jimmy Ellis. You look at the replay and think Fraizier beats this guy one hundred times out of a hundred.

I didn't list Hearns/Cuevous becuase of what BoxBuzz talked about with a guy getting caught early, but after thinking about it I have to say mismatch, as Cuevous Basically was unable to mount any type of an attack. Now I think the BoxBuzz rule does apply to Fraizier/Foreman becuase Joe came out agressivly and landed some good shots before getting caught himself and kept firing back even after being hit. In that case it was just one of those fights where you had two sluggers and one was going to take the other one out, as it turned out sooner rather than later. I thought Fraizier looked much more competitive than Norton in his fight against Foreman. Norton might not have been overmatched if they would have fought again, but he looked it in that fight.

[Chuck1052]

I believe that Jersey Joe Walcott was a talented fighter with
a lot of ring smarts, a great variety of boxing skills, and
very good power in both hands. Give credit to Felix
Bocchicchio, who may have had a criminal record,
but things started to happen when he started to
manage Walcott.


In my opinion, Walcott was a much, much better fighter
than Jim Braddock. Forget the early part of Walcott's
career... what happened was that he had to work to
support his family in addition to be a boxer. You
wouldn't believe how little money many capable
boxers made while fighting in small clubs before
hitting the big time.

- Chuck Johnston

[Jaclem]

..louis/schmeling II wasn't a mismatch when it was made...which is the definition.....louis just made it one with his devastating assault.

and yes...their first fight was a huge upset..."old" washed up exchamp against new super fighter.

[kick asner]

That would make for two definitions of the word mismatch, I was going by what happend in the ring more so than what was on paper. If you go by the latter that would nullify all of my selections. If you take someone like Duane Bobick he looked like he was a fair bet with a 36-0 record although his caliber of oppisition was lacking. Still he was not expected to fold inside of one minute. I was more less going by how competitve a man was inside the ring. I just thought it would make it interesting to point out mismatches that were supposed to be decent fights rather than going with the obvious such as a George Foreman/Boone Kirkman or Larry Holmes/Scott Ladouex as their are an infinate number of these types of fights.

[kick asner]

Another fight that should have been a better matchup that turned into a mismatch was Robbie Sims/John Collins. It was'nt the type of fight where one guy just happend to get caught, it was a total display of dominence by one fighter over the other, where Collins was on the wrong side of a one sided beating that lasted less than a round. Similar to the beating Joe Bugner put on Richard Dunn which was another fight that turned into a mismatch.

[Jaclem]

..kickass...i have no problem with your defintion now that you've clarified it. true indeed...how fights that some thought would be competitve ended up as mismatches. for the first several rounds of delahoya/trinidad that looked like one .....delayhoya maded trindidad look like an inept amateur. (i still think oscar won enough rounds to get the decision....but i don't want to get into that on this thread.)


joe louis had a way of making many of his fights into mismatches against opponents who had some credibilty.

[BoxBuzz]

That shot to the throat that Norton sent was just a gift. Not sure it spelled all there was to know about Bobick, but he didnt' exactly flourish after that either. Perhaps a career changing moment? I was hit in the throat once.....I still wince at the thought.

I agree with Jaclem your further defining is helpful. If you buy the authenticity of the fights Liston Ali falls into the "surprise mismatch" column. I happen to think the fights were genuine. Also find myself in surprising agreement with my fellow contributor re: DLH-Trinidad. That fight probably could have remained a mismatch if DLH would have beleived it was still a horse race. DLH has more the sense of a CEO vs a fighter sometimes. Hope he brings his fighter mentality to the ring with Mayorga.

[kick asner]

Marvis Fraizier looked pretty well overmatched in both of his losses. In both fights it appeard more of him being in over his head rather that just getting caught with a punch.

[Jaclem]

buzzbomb...then you should be able to appreciate the effect the punch to the throat (a legal punch) that marciano landed on ezzard charles in the first match. it was a war with ezzard winning up until that. he could barely breathe and it's the main reason he started holding on so much as the fight progressed.

[kick asner]

That shot to the throat that Norton sent was just a gift. Not sure it spelled all there was to know about Bobick, but he didnt' exactly flourish after that either. Perhaps a career changing moment? I was hit in the throat once.....I still wince at the thought.

I agree with Jaclem your further defining is helpful. If you buy the authenticity of the fights Liston Ali falls into the "surprise mismatch" column. I happen to think the fights were genuine. Also find myself in surprising agreement with my fellow contributor re: DLH-Trinidad. That fight probably could have remained a mismatch if DLH would have beleived it was still a horse race. DLH has more the sense of a CEO vs a fighter sometimes. Hope he brings his fighter mentality to the ring with Mayorga.

Their are one sided fights and then their are mismatches. Ali pretty well handled Liston beating him to the punch while slipping Listons punches. He pretty much controlled the entire fight, you could even go as far to say he looked dominating. But I don't think I would go as far in calling it a mismatch becuase Liston Stalked him with a purpose while throwing shots and occasionally landing. So I would say if a fighter stands his ground he avoids being labled as overmatched. Now a fighter who is trying to be aggressive but is just bumbling around the ring while being tattooed, then I say mismatch, but I did not see signs of this with Liston.

[bigzab]

Evander Holyfield v Seamus McCDonagh. Mismatch.
Micheal Moorer v Frans Botha. Bit of a surprise mismatch.

[BoxBuzz]

That shot to the throat that Norton sent was just a gift. Not sure it spelled all there was to know about Bobick, but he didnt' exactly flourish after that either. Perhaps a career changing moment? I was hit in the throat once.....I still wince at the thought.

I agree with Jaclem your further defining is helpful. If you buy the authenticity of the fights Liston Ali falls into the "surprise mismatch" column. I happen to think the fights were genuine. Also find myself in surprising agreement with my fellow contributor re: DLH-Trinidad. That fight probably could have remained a mismatch if DLH would have beleived it was still a horse race. DLH has more the sense of a CEO vs a fighter sometimes. Hope he brings his fighter mentality to the ring with Mayorga.

Their are one sided fights and then their are mismatches. Ali pretty well handled Liston beating him to the punch while slipping Listons punches. He pretty much controlled the entire fight, you could even go as far to say he looked dominating. But I don't think I would go as far in calling it a mismatch becuase Liston Stalked him with a purpose while throwing shots and occasionally landing. So I would say if a fighter stands his ground he avoids being labled as overmatched. Now a fighter who is trying to be aggressive but is just bumbling around the ring while being tattooed, then I say mismatch, but I did not see signs of this with Liston.

Hmm...well Calzaghe Lacy wasn't far from Liston Clay save the "blind" round.