Vacant Ring Middleweight Title on the Line in Canelo-Golovkin Rematch

[Ruthless-RKO]

By Doug Fischer

For weeks, fans had been asking us via social media if The Ring’s vacant middleweight title will be on the line when Canelo Alvarez and Gennady Golovkin fight their anticipated rematch on September 15. We posed the question to the Ratings Panel, which, in a landslide, voted in favor the magazine’s 160-pound championship being up for grabs when the two stars clash at T-Mobile Arena in Las Vegas.

In case you’ve been living under a rock in recent months/years, Alvarez won The Ring middleweight title when he outpointed Miguel Cotto in November 2015 and held it until his first bout with Golovkin last September, which ended in a controversial draw.

Unfortunately, the controversy didn’t end with the scorecards, as Alvarez tested positive for the banned substance clenbuterol shortly after their rematch, originally set for May 5, was officially announced, ultimately resulting in the Nevada Athletic Commission (NAC) to suspend him for a six-month period (retroactive from the first positive test). Alvarez denied any wrong doing, claiming the positive test was the result of food contamination, while cooperating with the NAC and eventually agreeing to join the WBC’s Clean Boxing Program and undergo year-round VADA testing. However, the NAC’s mandatory suspension meant that he had to be stripped of The Ring title and dropped from the rankings, per the magazine’s PED policy at the time.

Here’s how the subject was presented and discussed among the Panel and Editorial Board (which consists of Associate Editor Tom Gray, Managing Editor Brian Harty and Yours Truly):

“The subject of the vacant Ring middleweight title has raised its head and we need to make a decision on whether or not it’s up for grabs on Sept. 15,” Gray posed to the Panel via group email.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
“Here’s the facts:

Canelo was stripped of the title
GGG is ranked No. 1 at 160 and Canelo is unranked
Normal procedure is No. 1 vs. No. 2 (or No. 3 if deemed worthy) for a vacant Ring championship
However, this is the consensus best middleweights in the world squaring off. The question is, will the belt be at stake?
Can we have as many responses as possible please?
Incidentally, although I’m not comfortable all the way, my answer is yes.”

Fischer's response:

“I vote yes, mainly because I think it sucks if Golovkin is unable to fight for it due to Canelo’s negligence, but also because Canelo had (in my opinion) a solid alibi for his PED positive test and he cooperated fully with the commission going forward, on top of his enrollment in VADA and the WBC’s CBP since his suspension, which ended a couple weeks ago.”

Harty:

“I would also vote yes for reasons that are all outside the rules. It’s the two best middleweights in the world, and nothing has changed in that regard since the last fight when the belt was up. Like Doug said, it would totally suck if GGG didn’t have the chance to win it, because he has always complained that The Ring was biased and it would be another slap in the face. It gives him a chance to be the true champion and it gives Canelo the chance to win it back on fair ground. If it sounds like the rules are being ignored, whatever. People will complain either way. I personally think the winner wearing the belt is more important than the rules about ratings in this case.”

Martin Mulcahey:

“Put me in the yes column as well, given the No. 2-rated middleweight (Daniel Jacobs) has already been defeated by GGG, as well as there is little argument for him (to fight for the belt). Plus, as someone stated already, why punish GGG for Canelo’s mistake?”

Michael Montero:

“This is one of those occasions where a slight bending of the typical procedures/rules does make sense.

“As noted above, GGG is already seen by most as ‘the man’ at 160, and many see Canelo as the second or third best in the division with Daniel Jacobs. Despite Canelo’s negligence in the clenbuterol scandal, his announcement to go VADA 24/7/365 is a game changer. It’s what Floyd Mayweather claimed he was going to do but never did. It’s legitimate Olympic style PEDS testing.

“I say this fight is worthy of The Ring title. Just for fun, I’m running a poll on Twitter and over 600 fans have already voted. Will give you guys the final results later.”

Mike Coppinger:

“A resounding yes here.”

Adam Abramowitz:

“I’ll be THAT GUY and vote no. (By the way, on my honeymoon in Greece), but rules are there for a reason and our rules wouldn’t have teeth if we immediately elevate the winner.”

Anson Wainwright:

“My answer is yes; 99 percent of people perceive this to be the best two middleweights in the world.”

Montero:

“Here’s the voice of the fans on this issue. Well, at least on my tiny little profile, lol. The majority seem to agree with most of us that The Ring title should be up for grabs.”



Coyote Duran:

“My argument will be that Golovkin is the consensus champion, anyway, so if Canelo (whom many perceive as the lineal champion) can defeat him, well then he gets the honors. I’m for it.”

Francisco Salazar and Diego Morilla also voted in favor of The Ring title being on the line.

[Ruthless-RKO]

I kinda agree as arguably they are the top 2 middleweights in the world and Canelo was only stripped due to PEDS. He hasn't been ranked since. Should he work his way up?

No Matter how much the Ring try, they're still owned by ODLH and may aleays have that slight bias.

I thought i'd add that same Twitter poll onto this thread..

[Ruthless-RKO]

Last month, a question from a guy named Garcia was raised on TBRB..

Will Canelo return to the #2 rating once his suspension is up? If so, will his fight against GGG be for the Middleweight Championship of the world?

Springs Toledo replied

If Canelo earns his way back into the Transnational Rankings based on his performance next month, then he will be ranked. If he doesn’t, then he won’t. If we just slide a fighter suspended by a recognized authority right back into his ranking after his suspension is up, then there isn’t much point in removing him in the first place, you know? Any fighter who is removed from the rankings must -earn- his way back in. This is a system of merit, not appointments. We may well be the only rankings authority that does not recognize the winner of GGG-Canelo II as the middleweight champion but we are bound to be consistent and follow the charter as it is written. If we went and amended the charter now, we’d look like a bunch of indecisive old ladies and would rightfully be criticized. If we stand alone, we’re gonna catch it too. So, if we’re gonna catch it either way, we should at least take the path of consistency, right?

Another person called Luke then replied

I disagree with the idea that you ‘would look like a bunch of old ladies if you were to change the charter now’, and not just because that statement is offensive to old ladies.
The charter was written in good faith and with good intentions, but as circumstances arise and the opportunity to observe real life situations, wisdom is willing to reevaluate accordingly to see if the purpose is being upheld vs. some self-righteous ideal of ‘sticking to the charter’. The charter is not Holy Scriptures (in fact, not even the scriptures are actually ‘Holy Scriptures’).
In this particular case, your strict adherence is penalizing GGG, not Canelo. Golovkin already beat Alvarez, but an awful scoring decision kept him from being recognized as the true champion. He scheduled an undeserved rematch in order to rectify the situation, and now, due to Canelo’s cheating, he will again be unrecognized as the champion.
I don’t think anyone thinks that Canelo should be recognized as the champion should he win, but similar to when a champion loses his belt on the scale, the contender shouldn’t be penalized.

Springs Toledo then replied to Luke

St. Luke out of St. Paul (home of the Gibbons brothers, Billy Miske, and Mike O’Dowd among many others) not only stands up for old ladies, but he makes a good argument. First things first, when my grandmother saw relatives bickering, she would say they’re like a coupla old ladies bickering over a backyard fence. When relatives gossiped she’d tell them they’re acting like a coupla old ladies in a laundromat. Nana was no Justin Trudeau.

Canelo has been a thorn in the side of this intiative for a long time. His catch-weights, his long refusal to acknowledge whether he abdicated the middleweight crown, his Mayweather/Leonard tactic of delaying GGG until he felt GGG went over the hill, and the PED problem. That bad draw disgusted me. As you say, the charter has good faith behind (and we thank you for recognizing that) but you understand that it has to be followed even when things are unpleasant. There was discussion among the chairs and I as to whether we should change it because of the PED clause and GGG-Canelo II, which, as it is currently written, precludes the winner being recognized as the true champion. The lesser evil now is to honor it as it is written.

Changing the charter to “rectifty an injustice” is not a good reason to step in and tamper with it because no charter should not be adjusted on behalf of an individual. This is boxing, we’d be doing that right and left. Changing the charter to address anomalies is also problematic, as you might expect. If we did change that clause now, it would be, as you say, to rectify an injustice, but that is the case only if GGG wins -and that’s no sure bet. Not even a little. I for one think his timing is gone and he is relying on his chin far more than he should be in hopes of landing something to end the matter. Canelo may win –and if he did we would obviously be bound to recognize him as the champion. Think about it –we change the charter to rectify an injustice done to one fighter and the other fighter wins. We’d not only be guilty of being inconsistent, but we’d add insult to injury.

GGG is Hagler after he got that bad draw against Antuofermo. Everyone knows he’s the best in the division even if has yet to become the champ. We used to call them uncrowned champions. Believe me, it isn’t pleasant that we are bound not to crown him if he beats Canelo. I wish he was facing #2 Saunders. But we can’t shoehorn him onto the throne.

Just thought I'd put this out there.

[Enlightened-One]

Canelo was already The RING’s middleweight champion when the NSAC suspended him, which automatically triggered The RING to remove the Mexican from their rankings.

However, now that Canelo’s NSAC suspension has already expired (17th August), he should now be considered eligible to be rated by The RING again.

Therefore, it makes sense for the former RING titleholder, linear middleweight champion and (probable) universally-regarded number two middleweight to challenge GGG for the vacant RING championship.

[Ruthless-RKO]

Canelo was already The RING’s middleweight champion when the NSAC suspended him, which automatically triggered The RING to remove the Mexican from their rankings.

However, now that Canelo’s NSAC suspension has already expired (17th August), he should now be considered eligible to be rated by The RING again.

Therefore, it makes sense for the former RING titleholder, linear middleweight champion and (probable) universally-regarded number two middleweight to challenge GGG for the vacant RING championship.

That's what most of the Ring's panel have said. It's clearly the #1 vs. #2! GGG is the uncrowned champion. Should Canelo beat him, he should be regarded as the Champion.

Obviousy TBRB, who I regard as more legitimate, have more strict views on this. Which can be understandable and debatable.

It's different to Fury obviously because unlike Fury, Canelo has only been out/suspended for less than a year..

Should be be re-instated at #2 after being removed initially due to PEDS? GGG has already beaten the current #2 in Danny Jacobs.

[jamamb]

lol yet transnational made garcia the 140 champ for beating lipinets, and they kept lipinets at #1 even after lipinets lost and prograis destroyed there #5 indongo

not sure that transnational is really more credible then most other non abc rankings, some of there stuff is very quirky and idiosyncratic . having nate gallimore at #4 in the world might be the strangest rating ive seen outside the sanctioning bodies

i wonder if that springs toledo guy has too much influence

[claudevsq]

As an ex-member of The Ring's Advisory Ratings Panel, I think that pretty much every side of the matter has meanwhile been shed light onto. I vote for the title NOT to be on the line for the reasons following:

- Golovkin is already the Ring's #1-P4P fighter and got belted by The Ring not long ago because they re-instated the belt. THAT is the belt which should be on the line, not the divisional middleweight belt.
- It would be unfair if Canelo was able to win the divisional belt after he was suspended until only a few weeks ago.
- Bending the rules in this case would only let people cry over the fact that ODLH owns the Magazine, and that they "knew this would happen beforehand".
There are other reasons, but instead of writing an endless list, I thought I'd point out the most important ones to me.

[Mexi-Box]

Should be. Easily, it's the best two MW in the world fighting one another.

[Enlightened-One]

As an ex-member of The Ring's Advisory Ratings Panel, I think that pretty much every side of the matter has meanwhile been shed light onto. I vote for the title NOT to be on the line for the reasons following:

Mmmm...

- Golovkin is already the Ring's #1-P4P fighter and got belted by The Ring not long ago because they re-instated the belt. THAT is the belt which should be on the line, not the divisional middleweight belt.

When Manny Pacquiao (The RING's pound-for-pound champion of 2011) tasted defeat in 2012, neither Timothy Bradley nor Juan Manuel Marquez were able to claim ownership of that title. This is because the pound-for-pound championship is voted for not decided by the outcome of fights.

- It would be unfair if Canelo was able to win the divisional belt after he was suspended until only a few weeks ago.

It's not about fairness. It's about the application of the rules.

- Bending the rules in this case would only let people cry over the fact that ODLH owns the Magazine, and that they "knew this would happen beforehand".

The rules aren't being "bent". If The RING's ratings panel reinstates Canelo as their number two middleweight, which is clearly not an unreasonable thing to do, and GGG is their top-dog, then their vacant RING middleweight championship should be on the line.

[Ruthless-RKO]

lol yet transnational made garcia the 140 champ for beating lipinets, and they kept lipinets at #1 even after lipinets lost and prograis destroyed there #5 indongo

not sure that transnational is really more credible then most other non abc rankings, some of there stuff is very quirky and idiosyncratic . having nate gallimore at #4 in the world might be the strangest rating ive seen outside the sanctioning bodies

He's been dropped completly. Losing 2 in a row.

[Ruthless-RKO]

lol yet transnational made garcia the 140 champ for beating lipinets, and they kept lipinets at #1 even after lipinets lost and prograis destroyed there #5 indongo

This was a reply from Springs in regards to this. Not saying I 100% agree, but here..

It is strict -no exceptions to the #1 vs. #2 requirement under an open throne. What everyone else is doing is of no consequence to what we’re doing. Not all of us were thrilled that Lipinets was #2, but when you consider that the division is not anywhere near as strong as the networks are touting, the offense is less. Also consider that Lipinets entered at #10 in late July 2016 and moved up to #8 through attrition. In December 2016 he advanced from #8 to #4 after beating Zappavigna. That big advance was due as much to the belief that he deserved to at least be over Molina, who just got TKOd by Crawford and moved down at the same time, and over a rapidly fading Provodnikov as well. At that time, Broner was #3, Indongo was #2, and Postol was #1. Broner lost to Garcia in July 2017, and moved down to #4 and in August Indongo was KOd by Crawford and moved down to #5. Postol was removed for inactivity that same month and re-entered at #3 after he finally returned to the ring two months later. Lipinets, meanwhile, has stayed active and continued winning.

Prograis destroyed #5 Indongo all right, and was ranked #9 when he did. Indongo looked like a shell. Prograis has no contenders on his record before that. Lipinets didn’t either, but made a good stand against a P4P’er and showed skill, adaptability, and heart in what I for one would call a good loss. Would you argue that we should have predicted that Prograis would have beaten Indongo and so moved him past Lipinets based on prophecy? Lipinets went far to justify a ranking he more or less floated up to, especially when you think about who else under Garcia could have done better than he did.

He followed on with,

I brought that “early vote” option to the chairs before the Prograis fight due to the unusual circumstances, but it was scrapped. The time-frame for a vote would have been 1/3 of what it should be, which is Sunday through Tuesday. Trying to force a vote could have called into question how representative that special vote would have been. Remember, the board is made up of volunteers from every time zone in the world and they have full schedules as it is. Even if we could get half the board to vote in that short time, it was no promise that Prograis would have jumped up from #9 to #2 over Lipinets based on defeating Indongo. And as it turned out, Prograis ended up just behind Lipinets anyway on Tuesday. These rankings are not strictly quantitative rankings like tennis and include more subjective things like “current form” and “bad win/good loss.” Prograis beat Indongo, who, you recall, took the fight on three weeks notice and looked bad. Prograis was considered an up and comer by most before that win. Lipinets faced one of the best fighters in the world and though he lost, he looked every bit like a top contender in a relatively weak division.

[squiggy]

To me it's just obvious that it should be, and the reasons against don't even make sense. For example,

- Golovkin is already the Ring's #1-P4P fighter and got belted by The Ring not long ago because they re-instated the belt. THAT is the belt which should be on the line, not the divisional middleweight belt.

Put them both on the line, then.

- It would be unfair if Canelo was able to win the divisional belt after he was suspended until only a few weeks ago.

Why? Past is past, and beating GGG would be beating GGG (long as he tests clean this time).

- Bending the rules in this case would only let people cry over the fact that ODLH owns the Magazine, and that they "knew this would happen beforehand".

But why shouldn't it happen this time? Is the rule that's being violated one that makes sense and that fans should care about? It's just self-evidently the two best middleweights fighting each other; not acknowledging a definitive winner as the champion would just look stupid.

[adislav123]

golovkin (still), saunders, jacobs, charlo & hurd i personally favour in a fair fight over canelo (i will just make this statement, would have to look deeper at hurd & charlo to... okay, leave those 2 out, it´s my feeling but i can´t really say that at the moment) i can say, that it´s all about the money. you can´t win a fight where at least two of three judges are paid a small fortune to vote against you. they made it a draw the first time. canelo will get the decision this time, if he deserves it or not. canelo is good enough to make it look close enough. if triple G doesn´t knock him out, canelo get`s the decision. i don´t know who will win this fight, i think neither of them decisively, if decisively - then golovkin, but he won´t get the decision, if he doesn´t knock him out. possible that canelo makes it a REAL close fight this time, if he manages to stay off the ropes and puts ALL he has into it, more than last time. if canelo survives, he get´s the decision. (impossible that canelo knocks golovkin out - push him down maybe, then after he jumps on him with a flurry, they immediately waive it off at the slightest sign of weakness from golovkin - that´s possible). i will say it again: if the fight goes the distance, canelo will get the decision. then they will make it a trilogy. de la hoya prays everyday that golovkin doesn´t knock out canelo and hopes that canelo will put on a performance that remotely justifies the decision, but in the end, they don´t care if it will look like corruption, cause they will blame the judges, that´s what they pay em for royally. it´s a damn shame! in my book billy joe saunders is the best middleweight-boxer on the planet and i highly favor him to decision both of them in a fairly judged fight. if ggg really puts away canelo, then we will find out who will be the undisputed champion (on the other hand eddie hearn is no better in paying everybody possible off to protect "his titles", maybe a notch less obvious, but not really, he`s just much better in denying or plain ignoring the subject on his end of the table, i guess he has "guys" who are instructed to completely leave him out of those "dealings", that he can convincingly shrugg of accusations so he doesn´t come in the bredouille to look the obvious snakish, sneaky, sleazy liar dela hoya does, who makes such a super dumb impression at the same time, he`s really an enigma but we all have eyes to see ourselves who REALLY won and who lost a fight, it´s just so sad for the fucked fighters who literally put their lives on the line, just to be denied what they worked their asses off for. btw: is there a record base where they put in the fights, if possible, judged by their REAL outcome, guess no, that´s what the newspapers- experts- scorecards are there, but still, never ever gets a decision overturned might it be as obviously wrong as imaginable). canelo will duck saunders forever or maybe not, cause he knows he will get the decision, if he survives and puts out a half decent (which he always does) showing, anyways. sorry for repeating myself that canelo will get the decision. as fighters, i really like all of them, BUT CANELO, IF GGG DOESN´T GET HIM OUT OF THERE; WILL GET THE DECISION; NO MATTER WHAT.

[Enlightened-One]

golovkin (still), saunders, jacobs, charlo & hurd i personally favour in a fair fight over canelo (i will just make this statement, would have to look deeper at hurd & charlo to... okay, leave those 2 out, it´s my feeling but i can´t really say that at the moment) i can say, that it´s all about the money. you can´t win a fight where at least two of three judges are paid a small fortune to vote against you. they made it a draw the first time. canelo will get the decision this time, if he deserves it or not. canelo is good enough to make it look close enough. if triple G doesn´t knock him out, canelo get`s the decision. i don´t know who will win this fight, i think neither of them decisively, if decisively - then golovkin, but he won´t get the decision, if he doesn´t knock him out. possible that canelo makes it a REAL close fight this time, if he manages to stay off the ropes and puts ALL he has into it, more than last time. if canelo survives, he get´s the decision. (impossible that canelo knocks golovkin out - push him down maybe, then after he jumps on him with a flurry, they immediately waive it off at the slightest sign of weakness from golovkin - that´s possible). i will say it again: if the fight goes the distance, canelo will get the decision. then they will make it a trilogy. de la hoya prays everyday that golovkin doesn´t knock out canelo and hopes that canelo will put on a performance that remotely justifies the decision, but in the end, they don´t care if it will look like corruption, cause they will blame the judges, that´s for what they pay em for royally. it´s a damn shame! in my book billy joe saunders is the best middleweight-boxer on the planet and i highly favor him to decision both of them in a fairly judged fight. if ggg really puts away canelo, then we will find out who will be the undisputed champion (on the other hand eddie hearn is no better in paying everybody possible off to protect "his titles", maybe a notch less obvious, but not really, he`s just much better in denying or plain ignoring the subject on his end of the table, i guess he has "guys" who are instructed to completely leave him out of those "dealings", that he can convincingly shrug of accusations so he doesn´t come in the bredouille to look the obvious snakish, sneaky, sleazy liar dela hoya does, who makes such a super dumb impression at the same time, he`s really an enigma but we all have eyes to see ourselves who REALLY won and who lost a fight, it´s just so sad for the fucked fighters who literally put their lives on the line, just to be denied what the worked their asses off for. btw: is there a record base where they put in the fights, if possible, judged by their REAL outcome, guess no, that´s what the newspapers- experts- scorecards are there, but still, never ever gets a decision overturned might it be as obviously wrong as imaginable). canelo will duck saunders forever or maybe not, cause he knows he will get the decision, if he survives and puts out a half decent (which he always does) showing, anyways. sorry for repeating myself that canelo will get the decision. as fighters, i really like all of them, BUT CANELO, IF GGG DOESN´T GET HIM OUT OF THERE; WILL GET THE DECISION; NO MATTER WHAT.

I feel like an ȁɍsȅ saying this, because I fȕck¡ng hate the self-appointed 'grammar police', but please learn to use paragraphs, because it’s easier to read lengthy posts in stages, where each individual idea/concept is contained within their own separate paragraphs.

An absolutely massive wall of text is confusing and exhausting to read.

[adislav123]

please. don't feel like that. no need. sorry, to have confused you. english isn't my native language. I didn't study it. i talk a "kind of" english to my wife, to an extent that i'm already almost completely thinking english, constantly realising that i lack the natural accumulated vocabulary badly. i try to write ✍in a fluid "filtered stream of thought" style, like putting it down how it comes up. I appreciate your comment as i always found your boxing knowledge of the highest level and i'm almost through, reading the history-forum from back to start, you, sir! are nothing less than a legend on box-rec ... ah, whatever, fornicate you! if it's hard for you to follow! no, i'm joking. I get what you mean and hope, through all the difficulties i can get across my point too. Fair play, man! Peace!✌

[Enlightened-One]

please. don't feel like that. no need. sorry, to have confused you. english isn't my native language. I didn't study it. i talk a "kind of" english to my wife, to an extent that i'm already almost completely thinking english, constantly realising that i lack the natural accumulated vocabulary badly. i try to write ✍in a fluid "filtered stream of thought" style, like putting it down how it comes up. I appreciate your comment as i always found your boxing knowledge of the highest level and i'm almost through, reading the history-forum from back to start, you, sir! are nothing less than a legend on box-rec ... ah, whatever, eff you! if it's hard for you to follow! no, i'm joking. I get what you mean and hope, through all the difficulties i can get across my point too. Fair play, man! Peace!✌

OK.

[KiwiRider]

Really nice thread and posts Ruthie
You've gone to a lot of effort, and I enjoyed and appreciated reading that.
Oh, and I voted just for GGG.

[Grant]

I agree, great thread.
I watched the first fight and can't believe the 100 -108 scorecard. Think GGG took it with good humour though.
I also think that if Canelo goes hard for the KO without trying to conserve energy for the later rounds he will get it this time.

Just to be bleeding obvious GGG walk up start for HoF when available.

Peace, Out