Martin vs Kownacki

[jujigatame]

He needs to drop about 20 pounds. He faded late against a very mediocre opponent. I do not see him beating someone like Whyte or Miller, let alone Joshua or Wilder.

[Mexi-Box]

I thought Martin only won two rounds. I gave Martin the 3rd and the 12th. 11th was close, though. Kownacki looked like Kownacki. He's not a big puncher. He's an accumulation guy that takes as good as he gives.

He'll beat guys like Breazeale and Jennings. Ceiling is maybe beating an out-of-shape, care-free Parker, but I don't think he has a chance against any of the top guys. Kownacki vs. Miller is a very, very good fight, though. That should be made.

[gilgamesh]

He needs to drop about 20 pounds. He faded late against a very mediocre opponent. I do not see him beating someone like Whyte or Miller, let alone Joshua or Wilder.

He needs to drop about 40 pounds

[gilgamesh]

I thought Martin only won two rounds. I gave Martin the 3rd and the 12th. 11th was close, though. Kownacki looked like Kownacki. He's not a big puncher. He's an accumulation guy that takes as good as he gives.

He'll beat guys like Breazeale and Jennings. Ceiling is maybe beating an out-of-shape, care-free Parker, but I don't think he has a chance against any of the top guys. Kownacki vs. Miller is a very, very good fight, though. That should be made.

Pretty amazing that Martin got the 11th and 12th round considering it was only a 10 round fight.

[Mexi-Box]

I thought Martin only won two rounds. I gave Martin the 3rd and the 12th. 11th was close, though. Kownacki looked like Kownacki. He's not a big puncher. He's an accumulation guy that takes as good as he gives.

He'll beat guys like Breazeale and Jennings. Ceiling is maybe beating an out-of-shape, care-free Parker, but I don't think he has a chance against any of the top guys. Kownacki vs. Miller is a very, very good fight, though. That should be made.

Pretty amazing that Martin got the 11th and 12th round considering it was only a 10 round fight.

Shit, you're right. Was still thinking about Porter/Garcia there. 10th and 9th that is.

[DrDuke]

I thought Martin only won two rounds. I gave Martin the 3rd and the 12th. 11th was close, though. Kownacki looked like Kownacki. He's not a big puncher. He's an accumulation guy that takes as good as he gives.

He'll beat guys like Breazeale and Jennings. Ceiling is maybe beating an out-of-shape, care-free Parker, but I don't think he has a chance against any of the top guys. Kownacki vs. Miller is a very, very good fight, though. That should be made.

Pretty amazing that Martin got the 11th and 12th round considering it was only a 10 round fight.

[tiny_acres]

I thought Martin only won two rounds. I gave Martin the 3rd and the 12th. 11th was close, though. Kownacki looked like Kownacki. He's not a big puncher. He's an accumulation guy that takes as good as he gives.

He'll beat guys like Breazeale and Jennings. Ceiling is maybe beating an out-of-shape, care-free Parker, but I don't think he has a chance against any of the top guys. Kownacki vs. Miller is a very, very good fight, though. That should be made.

Pretty amazing that Martin got the 11th and 12th round considering it was only a 10 round fight.

Put down the cerveza

[jamamb]

ya kownacki wins a tough battle but i feel it shows martin isnt totally shit. he may well at least be better then guys like szpilka and washington. he showed some ability but fat boy simply brings so much fight and effort to it

that said i am still very confident kownackis gonna seriously struggle to beat any top 10

[DrDuke]

ya kownacki wins a tough battle but i feel it shows martin isnt totally poo. he may well at least be better then guys like szpilka and washington

Yeah. From what we've seen from him for the moment, it seems like he can establish himself as a sorta gatekeeper of the division.

[lazboy]

Pretty amazing that Martin got the 11th and 12th round considering it was only a 10 round fight.

Put down the cerveza

[Lackeos]

Solid fight. Seems to reveal both fighters as being around the #15-20 ballpark. I'd like to see them go on to fight Ruiz Jr, Huck, Hughie, Junlong, Wallin, Kean, Kuzmin, or Hrgovic.

[jamamb]

Solid fight. Seems to reveal both fighters as being around the #15-20 ballpark. I'd like to see them go on to fight Ruiz Jr, Huck, Hughie, Junlong, Wallin, Kean, Kuzmin, or Hrgovic.

ya i think thats a good list of opponents, though with the exception of junlong, who to me seems like a fraud who shouldnt be taken as seriously as the others. just way too much mystery with junlong and hes old. the other guys at least have verified serious amateur and/or pro achievments/performances

im guessing it will be another pbc guy though, maybe washington?

[candyslim]

I just watched the fight and I'm feeling really pleased by it:

I've said on here recently that I expected a Kownacki win due to his punch rate and stamina, that I didn't consider him in the top 10 but just outside (that might have moved him inside), but most of all that I hoped Charles Martin would repair the damage to his reputation.

I always felt Martin got caught cold by perfectly timed counters from a very fine heavyweight in Joshua who didn't deserve to have his stunning victory devalued by the barrage of criticism heaped on Martin.

Much more than that I hate to see any boxer, any person, unfairly maligned and I always thought Martin was not the unskilled dross, who just got lucky against Glazkov,.and proved to be a quitter against Joshua.

Don't mistake what I'm saying. .I accept that Martin is one of the weakest heavyweights to have won a world title belt, and I accept that his technical flaws as a boxer are manifold, but can we now at least acknowledge that the man showed real heart in the face of a sustained onslaught, from a big guy who doesn't stop throwing punches, coming forward, and trying to cripple your resolve?

I'm really pleased for him. He didn't get the win but he won back the respect of fair-minded people and that's the best I was expecting. Well done Adam you showed great stamina for someone who looks so out of shape. Lastly, much respect to the judges who all produced identical scorecards. How refreshing is that?

[DrDuke]

I just watched the fight and I'm feeling really pleased by it:

I've said on here recently that I expected a Kownacki win due to his punch rate and stamina, that I didn't consider him in the top 10 but just outside (that might have moved him inside), but most of all that I hoped Charles Martin would repair the damage to his reputation.

I always felt Martin got caught cold by perfectly timed counters from a very fine heavyweight in Joshua who didn't deserve to have his stunning victory devalued by the barrage of criticism heaped on Martin.

Much more than that I hate to see any boxer, any person, unfairly maligned and I always thought Martin was not the unskilled dross, who just got lucky against Glazkov,.and proved to be a quitter against Joshua.

Don't mistake what I'm saying. .I accept that Martin is one of the weakest heavyweights to have won a world title belt, and I accept that his technical flaws as a boxer are manifold, but can we now at least acknowledge that the man showed real heart in the face of a sustained onslaught, from a big guy who doesn't stop throwing punches, coming forward, and trying to cripple your resolve?

I'm really pleased for him. He didn't get the win but he won back the respect of fair-minded people and that's the best I was expecting. Well done Adam you showed great stamina for someone who looks so out of shape. Lastly, much respect to the judges who all produced identical scorecards. How refreshing is that?

I actually give Kownacki more credit for his heart, than stamina. Adam was tired after 6th and found enough guts to pull out a victory in the ending. A lot of people including myself thought prior to the fight, that Kownacki will have some difficulties early and then would take over, but he started fast and barely blown the fight closer to its end.

Kownacki's workrate is good for sure, but probably Adam overrated that aspect of him. He should have gradually increase the tempo, but he was too active early. He should be smarter in the future. In Martin fight he tried a quick start to break the opponent, which isn't very smart, cause Adam's punch isn't the hardest, he wins with the volume of them, so he should dose the shots in a proper way.

And Martin should be given credit too. He didn't perform anything special, anything of an ex-champ level, but he was able to take over for some time and provided solid counteraction overall. He has a lot of things to work on, he should use his size and jab better. Yeah, he's still a one of the worst champs, but he's not garbage for sure.

[KiwiRider]

Andy Ruiez is made for Adam Kownacki
I don't know who would win, but by golly it would be an all action HW fight for sure.

[franio]

Good fight, nice war, round 10 can be round of the year in HW.

[candyslim]

I just watched the fight and I'm feeling really pleased by it:

I've said on here recently that I expected a Kownacki win due to his punch rate and stamina, that I didn't consider him in the top 10 but just outside (that might have moved him inside), but most of all that I hoped Charles Martin would repair the damage to his reputation.

I always felt Martin got caught cold by perfectly timed counters from a very fine heavyweight in Joshua who didn't deserve to have his stunning victory devalued by the barrage of criticism heaped on Martin.

Much more than that I hate to see any boxer, any person, unfairly maligned and I always thought Martin was not the unskilled dross, who just got lucky against Glazkov,.and proved to be a quitter against Joshua.

Don't mistake what I'm saying. .I accept that Martin is one of the weakest heavyweights to have won a world title belt, and I accept that his technical flaws as a boxer are manifold, but can we now at least acknowledge that the man showed real heart in the face of a sustained onslaught, from a big guy who doesn't stop throwing punches, coming forward, and trying to cripple your resolve?

I'm really pleased for him. He didn't get the win but he won back the respect of fair-minded people and that's the best I was expecting. Well done Adam you showed great stamina for someone who looks so out of shape. Lastly, much respect to the judges who all produced identical scorecards. How refreshing is that?

I actually give Kownacki more credit for his heart, than stamina. Adam was tired after 6th and found enough guts to pull out a victory in the ending. A lot of people including myself thought prior to the fight, that Kownacki will have some difficulties early and then would take over, but he started fast and barely blown the fight closer to its end.

Kownacki's workrate is good for sure, but probably Adam overrated that aspect of him. He should have gradually increase the tempo, but he was too active early. He should be smarter in the future. In Martin fight he tried a quick start to break the opponent, which isn't very smart, cause Adam's punch isn't the hardest, he wins with the volume of them, so he should dose the shots in a proper way.

And Martin should be given credit too. He didn't perform anything special, anything of an ex-champ level, but he was able to take over for some time and provided solid counteraction overall. He has a lot of things to work on, he should use his size and jab better. Yeah, he's still a one of the worst champs, but he's not garbage for sure.

I think Kownacki's heart is a given. As for his stamina I thought he kept going really well although not surprisingly he was clearly feeling it. Maybe he thought he didn't have to worry about pacing himself because if he put enough pressure on Martin from the first bell, Martin would surely fold before Adam needed to dig deep.

Martin on the other hand has been derided as a someone who wilts in the face of adversity, and whose ability was prior to the fight regarded as highly suspect and vastly overrated pre-Joshua.

So if I seem to be making more of Martin the loser than Kownacki the winner, I would answer by way of explanation, that it's a matter of relative expectation.

I don't know why I care that Martin has recovered his self-respect but I do.

[tiny_acres]

I just watched the fight and I'm feeling really pleased by it:

I've said on here recently that I expected a Kownacki win due to his punch rate and stamina, that I didn't consider him in the top 10 but just outside (that might have moved him inside), but most of all that I hoped Charles Martin would repair the damage to his reputation.

I always felt Martin got caught cold by perfectly timed counters from a very fine heavyweight in Joshua who didn't deserve to have his stunning victory devalued by the barrage of criticism heaped on Martin.

Much more than that I hate to see any boxer, any person, unfairly maligned and I always thought Martin was not the unskilled dross, who just got lucky against Glazkov,.and proved to be a quitter against Joshua.

Don't mistake what I'm saying. .I accept that Martin is one of the weakest heavyweights to have won a world title belt, and I accept that his technical flaws as a boxer are manifold, but can we now at least acknowledge that the man showed real heart in the face of a sustained onslaught, from a big guy who doesn't stop throwing punches, coming forward, and trying to cripple your resolve?

I'm really pleased for him. He didn't get the win but he won back the respect of fair-minded people and that's the best I was expecting. Well done Adam you showed great stamina for someone who looks so out of shape. Lastly, much respect to the judges who all produced identical scorecards. How refreshing is that?

Good post.

[candyslim]

Thanks Tiny.

[jujigatame]

I'd like to see Breazeale vs. Kownacki. Both guys have looked so-so and need a signature win to move into the upper echelons of the division. I know Breazeale is somebody's mandatory but it would be a total waste of time for Joshua or Wilder to fight him right now so hopefully he stays busy and doesn't sit on that status.

[ewenhay]

It was a good scrap wasn't it? Pretty evenly matched which is always preferable to watching mismatches.

Unfortunately I think both guys are well off the top of the division. Both showed decent work rate and good heart though. Martin redeemed himself a little bit in my eyes.

[candyslim]

@ Jujigatame (Is that a judo technique?) Breazeale isn't going to sit on his hands while waiting for the WBC to call the mandatory, he's already made it known he would like to fight Dillian Whyte. No doubt he's realized that like Parker, he can make more money fighting Whyte on UK PPV, than he'd get for a title fight against Wilder.

I like that fight. It makes sense all round or at least it would do if the WBC could be relied on to do the honourable thing and make Whyte their mandatory in the event he were to prevail against their present mandatory (Breazeale), but they'll probably give it to Ortiz now Wilder has shown he can beat him.

There's no point blaming Maurizio Sulaiman - He'll do whatever Haymon tells him to do like always.

[jujigatame]

@ Jujigatame (Is that a judo technique?) Breazeale isn't going to sit on his hands while waiting for the WBC to call the mandatory, he's already made it known he would like to fight Dillian Whyte. No doubt he's realized that like Parker, he can make more money fighting Whyte on UK PPV, than he'd get for a title fight against Wilder.

I like that fight. It makes sense all round or at least it would do if the WBC could be relied on to do the honourable thing and make Whyte their mandatory in the event he were to prevail against their present mandatory (Breazeale), but they'll probably give it to Ortiz now Wilder has shown he can beat him.

There's no point blaming Maurizio Sulaiman - He'll do whatever Haymon tells him to do like always.

Yes actually a jujigatame is a judo/jiujitsu technique. Back when I made this account it was my #1 go-to move, but no longer.

I wouldn't mind Breazeale/Whyte at all, but honestly my opinion of Breazeale isn't that high and I think Whyte is a bit above his level, which is why I think Breazeale/Kownacki is a more natural fit. But that's just me.

[punchoutsb]

I just watched the fight and I'm feeling really pleased by it:

I've said on here recently that I expected a Kownacki win due to his punch rate and stamina, that I didn't consider him in the top 10 but just outside (that might have moved him inside), but most of all that I hoped Charles Martin would repair the damage to his reputation.

I always felt Martin got caught cold by perfectly timed counters from a very fine heavyweight in Joshua who didn't deserve to have his stunning victory devalued by the barrage of criticism heaped on Martin.

Much more than that I hate to see any boxer, any person, unfairly maligned and I always thought Martin was not the unskilled dross, who just got lucky against Glazkov,.and proved to be a quitter against Joshua.

Don't mistake what I'm saying. .I accept that Martin is one of the weakest heavyweights to have won a world title belt, and I accept that his technical flaws as a boxer are manifold, but can we now at least acknowledge that the man showed real heart in the face of a sustained onslaught, from a big guy who doesn't stop throwing punches, coming forward, and trying to cripple your resolve?

I'm really pleased for him. He didn't get the win but he won back the respect of fair-minded people and that's the best I was expecting. Well done Adam you showed great stamina for someone who looks so out of shape. Lastly, much respect to the judges who all produced identical scorecards. How refreshing is that?

Very good post.

BUT...

Any fighter that has more than a single outing in the boxing ring must be acknowledged as having heart. Fair-minded people still can reach the accurate conclusion that Martin is the worst heavyweight title holder in history. It's not disrespectful; someone has the be the worst. He is awful by title holder standards. He's not totally worthless in the ring obviously, but he's been judged harshly because of his supposed championship.

[Ilya Muromets]

Note: My Polish friend said K's name is pronounced Kahznyechkuh (i think) and not "cow-knockee". Polish pronunciation befuddles me. Names are pronounced differently depending on where they are located in a sentence. Is that silly or what?