Bad Decisions in Boxing

[HomicideHenry]

GGG vs Canelo reminds me of the Holmes-Spinks fights in Las Vegas. The first fight was controversial and the rematch seemed to be clearly a win for Holmes but shockingly went to Spinks.

Maybe in good fun we can score some of these bad decisions ourselves. What are some bad decisions you remember?

[jamamb]

ggg over jacobs

but, of ones recently; williams-lara, helenius-chisora, shumenov-campillo

all terrible robberies

[DrDuke]

Spinks-Holmes 2 was a robbery, but in the first bout Spinks won clear. And Holmes was awarded a win vs Williams.

Probably the biggest robbery ever is Whitaker-Chavez. At least it wasn't a loss for Pernell.

Whitaker also involved in other arguable decisions. He was robbed against Ramirez. De La Hoya loss was quite disputable.

And De La Hoya himself had not a single unclear scores. He probably lost to Quartey and Sturm. While he arguable was robbed against Tito. Mosley #1 and Mayweather bouts were lost by Oscar, the controversy is blown here, but Mosley #2 was a robbery.

Mayweather was awarded a victory in the first Castillo fight. And the first Maidana fight is close to being a draw.

Barrera and Morales have turned decisions in their first 2 bouts.

Schmeling was arguably robbed vs Sharkey.

Louis was probably awarded a victory over Walcott.

Norton was robbed in the third Ali fight.

Dokes had controversial draw vs Weaver, where many somehow scored for Weaver, I had Dokes there.

Holyfield arguably won Moorer even being injured.

Old Foreman lost to Schulz, had tight close decisions vs Stewart and Savarese, was robbed vs Briggs.

Byrd probably lost to Oquendo and Golota.

Ruiz had ridiculously close (and no less boring) decision wins (and draws) against Holyfield, Rahman, Golota, Valuev.

Valuev - vs Donald and Holyfield.

Rahman was robbed vs Toney.

Parker had disputable decisions against Takam, Andy Ruiz, Hughie Fury.

[Sidney Carton]

Spinks-Holmes 2 was a robbery, but in the first bout Spinks won clear. And Holmes was awarded a win vs Williams.

Probably the biggest robbery ever is Whitaker-Chavez. At least it wasn't a loss for Pernell.

Whitaker also involved in other arguable decisions. He was robbed against Ramirez. De La Hoya loss was quite disputable.

And De La Hoya himself had not a single unclear scores. He probably lost to Quartey and Sturm. While he arguable was robbed against Tito. Mosley #1 and Mayweather bouts were lost by Oscar, the controversy is blown here, but Mosley #2 was a robbery.

Mayweather was awarded a victory in the first Castillo fight. And the first Maidana fight is close to being a draw.

Barrera and Morales have turned decisions in their first 2 bouts.

Schmeling was arguably robbed vs Sharkey.

Louis was probably awarded a victory over Walcott.

Norton was robbed in the third Ali fight.

Dokes had controversial draw vs Weaver, where many somehow scored for Weaver, I had Dokes there.

Holyfield arguably won Moorer even being injured.

Old Foreman lost to Schulz, had tight close decisions vs Stewart and Savarese, was robbed vs Briggs.

Byrd probably lost to Oquendo and Golota.

Ruiz had ridiculously close (and no less boring) decision wins (and draws) against Holyfield, Rahman, Golota, Valuev.

Valuev - vs Donald and Holyfield.

Rahman was robbed vs Toney.

Parker had disputable decisions against Takam, Andy Ruiz, Hughie Fury.

Boxing "history" doesn't go back very far for some folks.

[jamamb]

sid carton, the quintessential condescending miserable boxrec boxing history grump

good post duke, a lot of bad decisions in there, thanks for writing that up. each era is part of history

[DrDuke]

sid carton, the quintessential condescending miserable boxrec boxing history grump

He's trolling in a too dumb way, I recommend just to skip his posts.

[Boxerbeetle]

Spinks-Holmes 2 was a robbery, but in the first bout Spinks won clear. And Holmes was awarded a win vs Williams.

Probably the biggest robbery ever is Whitaker-Chavez. At least it wasn't a loss for Pernell.

Whitaker also involved in other arguable decisions. He was robbed against Ramirez. De La Hoya loss was quite disputable.

And De La Hoya himself had not a single unclear scores. He probably lost to Quartey and Sturm. While he arguable was robbed against Tito. Mosley #1 and Mayweather bouts were lost by Oscar, the controversy is blown here, but Mosley #2 was a robbery.

Mayweather was awarded a victory in the first Castillo fight. And the first Maidana fight is close to being a draw.

Barrera and Morales have turned decisions in their first 2 bouts.

Schmeling was arguably robbed vs Sharkey.

Louis was probably awarded a victory over Walcott.

Norton was robbed in the third Ali fight.

Dokes had controversial draw vs Weaver, where many somehow scored for Weaver, I had Dokes there.

Holyfield arguably won Moorer even being injured.

Old Foreman lost to Schulz, had tight close decisions vs Stewart and Savarese, was robbed vs Briggs.

Byrd probably lost to Oquendo and Golota.

Ruiz had ridiculously close (and no less boring) decision wins (and draws) against Holyfield, Rahman, Golota, Valuev.

Valuev - vs Donald and Holyfield.

Rahman was robbed vs Toney.

Parker had disputable decisions against Takam, Andy Ruiz, Hughie Fury.

Boxing "history" doesn't go back very far for some folks.

Schmeling and Sharkey go back pretty far...

[Sidney Carton]

Schmeling and Sharkey go back pretty far...

Sharkey gave Schmeling a boxing lesson.

[tiny_acres]

One of my favorite comments from a conversation I had with Dave Zyglewicz.
"The worst decision I ever saw in Boxing was My fight with Joe Frazier"
But Dave you got knocked the F out rather quickly????
" No it was the worst decision to fight the bastard.... What the hell was I thinking??"

[Noxy]

Jones in the Olympic final

[Noxy]

Spinks-Holmes 2 was a robbery, but in the first bout Spinks won clear. And Holmes was awarded a win vs Williams.

Probably the biggest robbery ever is Whitaker-Chavez. At least it wasn't a loss for Pernell.

Whitaker also involved in other arguable decisions. He was robbed against Ramirez. De La Hoya loss was quite disputable.

And De La Hoya himself had not a single unclear scores. He probably lost to Quartey and Sturm. While he arguable was robbed against Tito. Mosley #1 and Mayweather bouts were lost by Oscar, the controversy is blown here, but Mosley #2 was a robbery.

Mayweather was awarded a victory in the first Castillo fight. And the first Maidana fight is close to being a draw.

Barrera and Morales have turned decisions in their first 2 bouts.

Schmeling was arguably robbed vs Sharkey.

Louis was probably awarded a victory over Walcott.

Norton was robbed in the third Ali fight.

Dokes had controversial draw vs Weaver, where many somehow scored for Weaver, I had Dokes there.

Holyfield arguably won Moorer even being injured.

Old Foreman lost to Schulz, had tight close decisions vs Stewart and Savarese, was robbed vs Briggs.

Byrd probably lost to Oquendo and Golota.

Ruiz had ridiculously close (and no less boring) decision wins (and draws) against Holyfield, Rahman, Golota, Valuev.

Valuev - vs Donald and Holyfield.

Rahman was robbed vs Toney.

Parker had disputable decisions against Takam, Andy Ruiz, Hughie Fury.

Don’t forget Whitaker vs Ramirez

[Sidney Carton]

Here's some for the "experts" exposing their limited acquaintance with boxing history in their posts .

Tell us all about why these decisions are doubtful:


Joe Gans--Joe Walcott

Joe Gans--Elbows McFadden II

Willie Ritchie--Freddie Welsh title fight

Packey McFarland--Freddie Welsh

Benny Leonard--Lew Tendler first fight

Mike McTigue--Battling Siki

Greb--Tunney II

Mickey Walker--Tiger Flowers

Bud Taylor--Tony Canzoneri

Barney Ross-Tony Canzoneri both fights

Barney Ross--Jimmy McLarnin III

Lou Ambers--Henry Armstrong II

LaMotta--Robinson II, III

Adrian Davis--Percy Pugh

Holly Mims vs Joey Archer and Rubin Carter (Mims knocked both of them down)

Jose Torres--Eddie Cotton

[APerno]

One of my favorite comments from a conversation I had with Dave Zyglewicz.
"The worst decision I ever saw in Boxing was My fight with Joe Frazier"
But Dave you got knocked the F out rather quickly????
" No it was the worst decision to fight the bastard.... What the hell was I thinking??"

great quote

[APerno]

Here's some for the "experts" exposing their limited acquaintance with boxing history in their posts .

Tell us all about why these decisions are doubtful:


Joe Gans--Joe Walcott

Joe Gans--Elbows McFadden II

Willie Ritchie--Freddie Welsh title fight

Packey McFarland--Freddie Welsh

Benny Leonard--Lew Tendler first fight

Mike McTigue--Battling Siki

Greb--Tunney II

Mickey Walker--Tiger Flowers

Bud Taylor--Tony Canzoneri

Barney Ross-Tony Canzoneri both fights

Barney Ross--Jimmy McLarnin III

Lou Ambers--Henry Armstrong II

LaMotta--Robinson II, III

Adrian Davis--Percy Pugh

Holly Mims vs Joey Archer and Rubin Carter (Mims knocked both of them down)

Jose Torres--Eddie Cotton

Sidney,

I saw the Torres-Cotton fight as a kid, I remember being angry at the decision, everyone was rooting for the old man Cotton.

But here's the thing I can't understand these BoxRec scores which seem strange, could you educate me as to how a 15 round fight can end up scored as such:

referee: Nat Torres 67-70 | Mike Petrovich 67-68 | Ron Amos 67-69 (Cotton is the first score).

It certainly not the ten point must, and a five point must doesn't work either. Any idea what this is?

[APerno]

Did anyone say: Rosario-Camacho?

Here is one that would have been bad decision had it not ended in a KO; I wonder how many more of those there are?

Mancini - Bramble I -- some say Bramble wasn't busy enough, but I thought he dominated.

[APerno]

I didn't pay for the fight last night so I was watching the round by round updates on two different pod casts.

Both pod casts had the same final score of 116-112 for Triple G, but here's the rub, they only agreed on six of the rounds, the other six they had flipped.

I didn't see a round of the fight but from watching the pod casts I could see what was coming, whatever the decision, it was obvious it wasn't going to please someone.

[Sidney Carton]

Torres was from New York.

Eddie Cotton was from the Northwest US--a foreigner in NY.

Cotton beat the hell out of Torres---and lost a unanimous decision.

Cotton won the light-heavyweight title that night.


And notice how suddenly Torres disappeared from the scene once Bob Foster appeared.

Foster stopped Cotton in 3 rounds--by far his most remarkable victory.

[BitPlayer]

Joe Louis Vs Jersey Joe Walcott was apparently a bad robbery, but I've only seen highlights. I actually thought it looked fairly close, though the knockdowns probably should have shifted it to JJW.

[tiny_acres]

One of my favorite comments from a conversation I had with Dave Zyglewicz.
"The worst decision I ever saw in Boxing was My fight with Joe Frazier"
But Dave you got knocked the F out rather quickly????
" No it was the worst decision to fight the bastard.... What the hell was I thinking??"

great quote

Dave was a character. I absolutely loved his wife Fran. Sweetest old hippy biker chick in the world.

[Yuzo]

Holly Mims vs Joey Archer and Rubin Carter (Mims knocked both of them down)

not so. but what a punch.



that is how you throw a hook.

[APerno]

One of my favorite comments from a conversation I had with Dave Zyglewicz.
"The worst decision I ever saw in Boxing was My fight with Joe Frazier"
But Dave you got knocked the F out rather quickly????
" No it was the worst decision to fight the bastard.... What the hell was I thinking??"

great quote

Dave was a character. I absolutely loved his wife Fran. Sweetest old hippy biker chick in the world.

I just looked up his record; he had a good career and got a shot at the heavyweight title, in his home State no less; no matter how it came out, he can say he was 'a contender' !

I guess he had the rep for being a bleeder!

[tiny_acres]

great quote

Dave was a character. I absolutely loved his wife Fran. Sweetest old hippy biker chick in the world.

I just looked up his record; he had a good career and got a shot at the heavyweight title, in his home State no less; no matter how it came out, he can say he was 'a contender' !

I guess he had the rep for being a bleeder!

[HomicideHenry]

My Scorecard for Holmes vs Spinks





9/21/1985, the first fight. Holmes was 48-0 looking to tie Rocky Marciano's 49-0 record. If successful this would have been Holmes 21st title defense.

Round One: Holmes

Round Two: Holmes

Round Three: Even

Round Four: Spinks

Round Five: Even (H. power+jab was every bit as meaningful as Spinks flurries)

Scores After Five (imho) 50-48 Holmes


Gotta say I admire Spinks cus sometimes he looks like a rag doll in there whenever Larry let's loose, but instead of running away he leaps right back at Holmes. Alot of balls.

Round Six: Spinks (Completely outhustles, out punches & even out jabs Holmes and makes Holmes look vulnerable for the first time in a long time)

Round Seven: Spinks (close)

Round Eight: Spinks (H. is certainly not a good infighter as Spinks takes full advantage on the inside; Holmes face is swelling up)

Round Nine: Holmes (starts getting serious, doubling up on the jab perpetually making Spinks move, and catches Spinks with hard shots)

Round Ten: Even (extremely difficult to score because Spinks had two moments in the round, whereas Holmes controlled it wirh jabs; both men could have did more)

Scores After Ten (imho) 88-87 Spinks


This is an extremely competitive fight so far with Spinks looking like the "brave little soldier" in the first five, and looking like a real contender in the next five stanzas; we have a real fight here & Spinks is proving he belongs with the best of the big guys.


Round Eleven: Even (I don't think either man did enough to sway me)

Round Twelve: Spinks (He put together more punches than Holmes jabs; half the time I'm thinking, "Double up! Triple up on the jab!", because Spinks is there for the taking but Holmes seems content to stay at first gear)

Round Thirteen: Spinks (H. controlled the first half w/ his jab but in the second half Spinks was throwing combinations; Holmes corner is frantic between rounds)

Round Fourteen: Spinks (H. looks like a man who knows he's lost. His once faithful jab isn't connecting anymore. Then again his face is really swollen)

Round Fifteen: Spinks (H. corner begging Holmes to go for broke, but his efforts at aggression seem minimal to the effort put out by Spinks)

Scores After Fifteen (imho)

138-133 Michael Spinks

Now let's compare...

Official Scores of the Fight:
143-142, 143-142, 145-142

Total Punches of the Fight:
Holmes= 247 of 567
Spinks= 318 of 697


I guess the judges saw one of my even rounds differently, because if I gave one of the rounds to Spinks my scores would have been 148-142, and that's not too far from the margin of the final scorecard.

The judges were certainly more kind to Larry than I was, and I generally consider Holmes to be the best Heavyweight of all time.... So it's ironic to me anyways the blow up Holmes had after the fight saying, "Marciano couldn't carry my jockstrap!", especially when Holmes corner begged him to step on the gas and he never really did.

[Sidney Carton]

How long did Spinks last against Mike Tyson?

[HomicideHenry]

How long did Spinks last against Mike Tyson?

Somewhat a moot point considering Spinks knew his limits as a Heavyweight which is why he went after Holmes when he knew Larry was slower, and why instead of fighting Tony Tucker opted for inactive Gerry Cooney and unknown Steffen Tangstad. Tyson was strictly a money fight.