Canelo v GGG II to be shown on BT Sport PPV

[jamesmcdonnell]

I was told by an esteemed boxing judge of some standing Jerry Roth, that the clearest way he found to score rounds, was divide them up into 3 separate minutes, and judge them indepdently, and score a winner, and then use that

I find it easier to divide each round into 180 separate seconds and judge the winner of each independently, then sum and use that. Simples.

Whatever works for you.

[Dirk Kelly]

Waited it for it and fell asleep just before the Spike fight lol.

I recorded it - is it worth a watch / good fight?

Better than first.....how did you record it? Wouldnt allow me on BT sport

My paid for service via my fire stick recorded it for me!

[jamesmcdonnell]

Waited it for it and fell asleep just before the Spike fight lol.

I recorded it - is it worth a watch / good fight?

Better than first.....how did you record it? Wouldnt allow me on BT sport

My paid for service via my fire stick recorded it for me!

Bloody annoying that I paid for it via a legit service, which won't let me even record it and watch it at a time that suited me.

[Dirk Kelly]

You’d think they’d make easy for the people paying for it to watch it at a time suitable for them.

They should a repeat the next day at 11:30 on BT 1 Extra.

[TheLeprechaun]

I was told by an esteemed boxing judge of some standing Jerry Roth, that the clearest way he found to score rounds, was divide them up into 3 separate minutes, and judge them indepdently, and score a winner, and then use that

I find it easier to divide each round into 180 separate seconds and judge the winner of each independently, then sum and use that. Simples.

Golovkins own trainer is saying it was a fair decision.

It shows how biased and ridiculous so many boxing fans are.

[TheLeprechaun]

It was such a huge robbery yet Andre Ward, Spence, Charlo Haye, Lemieux, Munguia, Robert Garcia and a good few others had Canelo winning.

[jamesmcdonnell]

You’d think they’d make easy for the people paying for it to watch it at a time suitable for them.

They should a repeat the next day at 11:30 on BT 1 Extra.

They do repeat it, but you can't fast forward ore rewind, and it only lets you pause it for a few minutes time, before it just takes you back out.

The thing is, If I have paid, I expect to be able to watch it whenever I choose, it's mine, I bought the right to watch it. I understand if they can't let you have it in perpetuity because of the situation with rights, but it could surely allow you to store it for a month, or a week or whatever.

[Boxerbeetle]

It was such a huge robbery yet Andre Ward, Spence, Charlo Haye, Lemieux, Munguia, Robert Garcia and a good few others had Canelo winning.

I don’t think too many people are saying it’s an outright robbery, apart from hardcore Golovkin fans. No doubt it was a close, highly competitive fight which could have gone either way.

But taken in context of the overall situation (Golovkin almost certainly robbed in the first fight, Canelo’s subsequent failing of a PED test etc), surely you can see why people feel he’s been hard done by?

[Ruthless-RKO]

It was such a huge robbery yet Andre Ward, Spence, Charlo Haye, Lemieux, Munguia, Robert Garcia and a good few others had Canelo winning.

I don’t think too many people are saying it’s an outright robbery, apart from hardcore Golovkin fans. No doubt it was a close, highly competitive fight which could have gone either way.

Teddy Atlas does not rate Golovkin.. and he had another bïtch fit..

[Boxerbeetle]

It was such a huge robbery yet Andre Ward, Spence, Charlo Haye, Lemieux, Munguia, Robert Garcia and a good few others had Canelo winning.

I don’t think too many people are saying it’s an outright robbery, apart from hardcore Golovkin fans. No doubt it was a close, highly competitive fight which could have gone either way.

Teddy Atlas does not rate Golovkin.. and he had another bïtch fit..

Yeah, well fvck Teddy Atlas

[ALI]

I think boxing has a serious problem where scoring is concerned, it needs to be clarified exactly how rounds are scored.

Effective aggression is supposed to include clean punching, - but it seems landing a few flashy shots during a round, wins you that round.

I was told by an esteemed boxing judge of some standing Jerry Roth, that the clearest way he found to score rounds, was divide them up into 3 separate minutes, and judge them indepdently, and score a winner, and then use that

In far too many rounds, Canelo would only really dominate 1 minute of the round, but Golovkin would consistently land jabs and straight right hands throughout the full 3 minutes.

You are not supposed to give someone rounds for landing a handful of 'big' shots in a round, particularly when said shots have no discernible effect

I commend Canelo for standing his ground more in this fight, and even trying to bully GGG, but he was hit far too often in doing so, and wasn't able to put a dent in GGG at all.

Both men are great fighters, despite his poor record for cheating, Canelo is an excellent fighter, but for me, he was outboxed quite clearly in both fights, and particularly in the 2nd. He has one hell of a chin though, he took some monstrous shots from GGG and despite looking hurt in round 10(I think it was) recovered very quickly.

I just don't understand what judging criteria is being used, and how the judges are arriving at their decisions, are they simply going by instinct and what they remember as being the highlights of the round, because that is how it seems to me. You have to give credence to a guy who is consistently tagging his opponent because ultimately clean shots landed is the first and most important category. You shouldn't be rewarded for taking ring centre if you're coming off worst in the exchanges overall, because that isn't effective aggression. If someone fights off the back foot and controls the fight, they should also not be penalised for that.

Ultimately, I think the scoring criteria for boxing needs demystifying, and also we need a new scoring system that allows for 10-8 rounds to be scored for rounds where a fighter clearly dominates, and perhaps also reduce the importance of knockdowns.

And lastly - that eye - I have NEVER seen a gash that big, that didn't bleed, he had a effing muff on his eye, and not a single trickle of blood, by the end. Something very fishy about that, adrenalin doesn't stop bleeding like that, anyway, that's an aside.

Excellent post. I, like many others, thought GGG won fairly comfortably. I can only see the decisions in both fights as nothing more than bias towards Canelo because he is the Vegas cash cow. I think it is basically impossible for GGG to win a decision over Canelo in Vegas no matter how dominant he is because the judges will find some way of seeing what Canelo does as more effective than GGG regardless of reality.

In the first fight, GGG boxed almost totally off the front foot, being the constant aggressor, winning the battle of the jabs, outlanding Canelo and throwing more punches. In the second fight GGG boxed more off the back foot but again dominated with the jab, threw more punches and landed more punches. What is the guy actually supposed to do to win the fight other than throw more and land more especially where there are no knockdowns?

I think one of the problems is that GGG doesn't get enough credit for using that ramrod job effectively. Canelo's flurries (lots of which landed on the gloves and arms) should not be scored in favour of more than GGG jabs which seemed to get through at will.

I genuinely have no idea what fight the judges were watching in either bout but the whole thing has left a very bitter taste in my mouth and I have no real desire to see a third fight where the outcome would almost certainly be the same regardless of how the fight goes.

Agreed, it completely confuses me how so many people think it could have gone either way, or even worse, that Canelo actually won the fight. Sure the rounds were close, but GGG took over very early on and stayed in control throughout. He was a clear winner on my card, its not even one of those fights where i can reason somewhat with people making a case for the other guy, it was a clear win for GGG, having to listen to someone like Andre Ward come out and say Canelo dominated boils my fcuking blood.

[jamesmcdonnell]

It was such a huge robbery yet Andre Ward, Spence, Charlo Haye, Lemieux, Munguia, Robert Garcia and a good few others had Canelo winning.

I don’t think too many people are saying it’s an outright robbery, apart from hardcore Golovkin fans. No doubt it was a close, highly competitive fight which could have gone either way.

But taken in context of the overall situation (Golovkin almost certainly robbed in the first fight, Canelo’s subsequent failing of a PED test etc), surely you can see why people feel he’s been hard done by?

For me, I think it prompts a wider enquiry into the transparency of scoring and the criteria that are being used.

It seems like fornicating figure skating sometimes the way it's judged. There's got to be a better and more robust way of adjudging fights than we have currently.

[TheLeprechaun]

It was such a huge robbery yet Andre Ward, Spence, Charlo Haye, Lemieux, Munguia, Robert Garcia and a good few others had Canelo winning.

I don’t think too many people are saying it’s an outright robbery, apart from hardcore Golovkin fans. No doubt it was a close, highly competitive fight which could have gone either way.

But taken in context of the overall situation (Golovkin almost certainly robbed in the first fight, Canelo’s subsequent failing of a PED test etc), surely you can see why people feel he’s been hard done by?

For me, I think it prompts a wider enquiry into the transparency of scoring and the criteria that are being used.

It seems like effing figure skating sometimes the way it's judged. There's got to be a better and more robust way of adjudging fights than we have currently.

It was a fight with some close rounds that could have gone either way. I favoured canelo in most of them. Get over it and stop making yourself look like an idiot by making a big deal out of this.

[Jackson328]

I think boxing has a serious problem where scoring is concerned, it needs to be clarified exactly how rounds are scored.

Effective aggression is supposed to include clean punching, - but it seems landing a few flashy shots during a round, wins you that round.

I was told by an esteemed boxing judge of some standing Jerry Roth, that the clearest way he found to score rounds, was divide them up into 3 separate minutes, and judge them indepdently, and score a winner, and then use that

In far too many rounds, Canelo would only really dominate 1 minute of the round, but Golovkin would consistently land jabs and straight right hands throughout the full 3 minutes.

You are not supposed to give someone rounds for landing a handful of 'big' shots in a round, particularly when said shots have no discernible effect

Thats how I score rounds, it helps to stop me from sitting on the fence and scoring rounds 10/10. But I just do it for my own enjoyment and my son does it too then we compare how and why we scored it, it all adds to the debate for us and there is no pressure so its enjoyable. He had GGG a clear winner again this time (my son) but I had it 114/114 and the first fight I had it 114/115 Canelo so maybe I'm doing something wrong or maybe its just that styles make fights and certain people like certain styles? Again I found myself willing GGG to step in and dominate but again I just didn't think he did that enough, maybe I expected too much of him. Maybe because he didn't ko the drugs cheat I punished him with my scorecard, that'll teach him hey?

Maybe Jim Lampley is right when he said that GGG won both fights but because he didn't win them the way he was expected to he didn't get the nod from the judges. Great fight and there will be clamour for a third but I'm not sure Golovkin can ever knock out Alvares and he's never getting a decision over him is he? Two or three years ago I reckon GGG stops Canelo brutally but you can never beat Father Time and I don't think he'll ever get a better chance to do it now.

[TheLeprechaun]

Canelo was 182 and GGG was 170 on fight night according to HBO. Canelo definitely felt like he could walk through anything GGG had and was daring GGG to fight in the pocket all night.

About the Lampley point, I think groves suffered from that a bit in the second froch fight. He was outboxing froch and well up on my card but most had it close because of froch doing better than the first fight. Froch was still losing the rounds but was getting extra credit for doing better. Pre fight talk also comes into it. They were telling canelo don't run and making a big deal out of it so in the actual fight it looks like canelo is making GGG walk back and not engage. Since all you heard from the GGG camp was how they were going to come after canelo.

I'm just saying what can factor into a judges perception.

Before these fights GGG was a destroyer and seen as one of the best of all time. Nobody can take his power or stand with him etc. His hype definitely stops now.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Canelo was 182 and GGG was 170 on fight night according to HBO. Canelo definitely felt like he could walk through anything GGG had and was daring GGG to fight in the pocket all night.

About the Lampley point, I think groves suffered from that a bit in the second froch fight. He was outboxing froch and well up on my card but most had it close because of froch doing better than the first fight. Froch was still losing the rounds but was getting extra credit for doing better. Pre fight talk also comes into it. They were telling canelo don't run and making a big deal out of it so in the actual fight it looks like canelo is making GGG walk back and not engage. Since all you heard from the GGG camp was how they were going to come after canelo.

I'm just saying what can factor into a judges perception.

Before these fights GGG was a destroyer and seen as one of the best of all time. Nobody can take his power or stand with him etc. His hype definitely stops now.

GGG is a great fighter, but he was flattered by his level of opposition, he will flatten anybody who stands in front of him and trades, but he struggles with movers whp have a solid dig. Hes not quite the monster he was painted to be.

I remember at the time the fight was mooted thinking people were mental to think he could have flattened Froch.

[TheLeprechaun]

Canelo was 182 and GGG was 170 on fight night according to HBO. Canelo definitely felt like he could walk through anything GGG had and was daring GGG to fight in the pocket all night.

About the Lampley point, I think groves suffered from that a bit in the second froch fight. He was outboxing froch and well up on my card but most had it close because of froch doing better than the first fight. Froch was still losing the rounds but was getting extra credit for doing better. Pre fight talk also comes into it. They were telling canelo don't run and making a big deal out of it so in the actual fight it looks like canelo is making GGG walk back and not engage. Since all you heard from the GGG camp was how they were going to come after canelo.

I'm just saying what can factor into a judges perception.

Before these fights GGG was a destroyer and seen as one of the best of all time. Nobody can take his power or stand with him etc. His hype definitely stops now.

GGG is a great fighter, but he was flattered by his level of opposition, he will flatten anybody who stands in front of him and trades, but he struggles with movers whp have a solid dig. Hes not quite the monster he was painted to be.

I remember at the time the fight was mooted thinking people were mental to think he could have flattened Froch.

I thought that the way the fight went was really damaging GGGs legacy as the fight was going on. Here you had someone taking the fight to him and practically daring him to use his vaunted power. If he thought Canelo was pressuring him, he would be wondering where the punches were coming from vs Hagler because Hagler would have fought with extreme confidence in his chin and power and whereas before I thought GGG could stand and fight Hagler, now we realize he would be on the backfoot. If Hagler was willing to take chances vs Hearns then I'm sure he wouldn't have a problem getting in GGGs grill

[jamesmcdonnell]

Canelo was 182 and GGG was 170 on fight night according to HBO. Canelo definitely felt like he could walk through anything GGG had and was daring GGG to fight in the pocket all night.

About the Lampley point, I think groves suffered from that a bit in the second froch fight. He was outboxing froch and well up on my card but most had it close because of froch doing better than the first fight. Froch was still losing the rounds but was getting extra credit for doing better. Pre fight talk also comes into it. They were telling canelo don't run and making a big deal out of it so in the actual fight it looks like canelo is making GGG walk back and not engage. Since all you heard from the GGG camp was how they were going to come after canelo.

I'm just saying what can factor into a judges perception.

Before these fights GGG was a destroyer and seen as one of the best of all time. Nobody can take his power or stand with him etc. His hype definitely stops now.

GGG is a great fighter, but he was flattered by his level of opposition, he will flatten anybody who stands in front of him and trades, but he struggles with movers whp have a solid dig. Hes not quite the monster he was painted to be.

I remember at the time the fight was mooted thinking people were mental to think he could have flattened Froch.

I thought that the way the fight went was really damaging GGGs legacy as the fight was going on. Here you had someone taking the fight to him and practically daring him to use his vaunted power. If he thought Canelo was pressuring him, he would be wondering where the punches were coming from vs Hagler because Hagler would have fought with extreme confidence in his chin and power and whereas before I thought GGG could stand and fight Hagler, now we realize he would be on the backfoot. If Hagler was willing to take chances vs Hearns then I'm sure he wouldn't have a problem getting in GGGs grill

To be fair to GGG he fought on the front foot last time and still got jobbed, so he probably figured he needed to do sometjing different.

Lets be fair, canelo has an exceptional chin, and is fornicating huge. I dont see him getting stopped unless he steps up to 175.
Quite how he ever made 147 is beyond me.

[TheLeprechaun]

GGG is a great fighter, but he was flattered by his level of opposition, he will flatten anybody who stands in front of him and trades, but he struggles with movers whp have a solid dig. Hes not quite the monster he was painted to be.

I remember at the time the fight was mooted thinking people were mental to think he could have flattened Froch.

I thought that the way the fight went was really damaging GGGs legacy as the fight was going on. Here you had someone taking the fight to him and practically daring him to use his vaunted power. If he thought Canelo was pressuring him, he would be wondering where the punches were coming from vs Hagler because Hagler would have fought with extreme confidence in his chin and power and whereas before I thought GGG could stand and fight Hagler, now we realize he would be on the backfoot. If Hagler was willing to take chances vs Hearns then I'm sure he wouldn't have a problem getting in GGGs grill

To be fair to GGG he fought on the front foot last time and still got jobbed, so he probably figured he needed to do sometjing different.

Lets be fair, canelo has an exceptional chin, and is effing huge. I dont see him getting stopped unless he steps up to 175.
Quite how he ever made 147 is beyond me.

I don't think its a stretch really to say canelo has the best chin in boxing at this point.

[TheLeprechaun]

Mostly sensible discussion except I have absolutely no idea how kellerman sees the 12th as a clear GGG round

[jamesmcdonnell]

I thought that the way the fight went was really damaging GGGs legacy as the fight was going on. Here you had someone taking the fight to him and practically daring him to use his vaunted power. If he thought Canelo was pressuring him, he would be wondering where the punches were coming from vs Hagler because Hagler would have fought with extreme confidence in his chin and power and whereas before I thought GGG could stand and fight Hagler, now we realize he would be on the backfoot. If Hagler was willing to take chances vs Hearns then I'm sure he wouldn't have a problem getting in GGGs grill

To be fair to GGG he fought on the front foot last time and still got jobbed, so he probably figured he needed to do sometjing different.

Lets be fair, canelo has an exceptional chin, and is effing huge. I dont see him getting stopped unless he steps up to 175.
Quite how he ever made 147 is beyond me.

I don't think its a stretch really to say canelo has the best chin in boxing at this point.

Actually golovkins is every bit as good if not better. Ive never seen him look remotely hurt.

[danconnollyeire]

To be fair to GGG he fought on the front foot last time and still got jobbed, so he probably figured he needed to do sometjing different.

Lets be fair, canelo has an exceptional chin, and is effing huge. I dont see him getting stopped unless he steps up to 175.
Quite how he ever made 147 is beyond me.

I don't think its a stretch really to say canelo has the best chin in boxing at this point.

Actually golovkins is every bit as good if not better. Ive never seen him look remotely hurt.

They both make Froch look chinny

[jamesmcdonnell]

I don't think its a stretch really to say canelo has the best chin in boxing at this point.

Actually golovkins is every bit as good if not better. Ive never seen him look remotely hurt.

They both make Froch look chinny

Funny i was actually thinking the same.

[Ricky]

Canelo was 182 and GGG was 170 on fight night according to HBO. Canelo definitely felt like he could walk through anything GGG had and was daring GGG to fight in the pocket all night.

About the Lampley point, I think groves suffered from that a bit in the second froch fight. He was outboxing froch and well up on my card but most had it close because of froch doing better than the first fight. Froch was still losing the rounds but was getting extra credit for doing better. Pre fight talk also comes into it. They were telling canelo don't run and making a big deal out of it so in the actual fight it looks like canelo is making GGG walk back and not engage. Since all you heard from the GGG camp was how they were going to come after canelo.

I'm just saying what can factor into a judges perception.

Before these fights GGG was a destroyer and seen as one of the best of all time. Nobody can take his power or stand with him etc. His hype definitely stops now.

If Canelo was heavier than Golovkin in there i would eat my hat. Golovkin looked at least a stone bigger.

[jamamb]

gggs taller but canelo is a thick, tank built dude

and ya, they both have excellent chins, ggg hardly been budged and never close to down despite taking many clean shots in his career, and aside from a rocky spell early in his career vs cottos brother canelos hardly been budged either. froch did have a very good chin but down vs taylor, groves, and wobelled worse vs dirrell and kessler 2 then ive seen ggg wobbeled or then ive seen canelo wobbelled in years.

ive seen some ppl say recovering well from knockdowns etc actually shows the truly strongest type of chin, but theres another level of durability where the guys dont even go down in the first place. among recent fighters ggg, canelo, and some other guys like marisuz wach and provodnikov