Canelo-Golovkin: Who won?

[Ricky]

I'll try and watch it again tonight. In real time though i was hugely disappointed in Golovkin. In fight 1 triple G chased Canelo round the ring and pressured him to fight at his pace.

In this fight i felt like Canelo stood in the middle of the ring and gave Golovkin a lesson in counter punching. Golovkin srepped it up in the 2nd half but didn't do enough. Canelo is a better boxer.

[boxing_rocks]

I'll try and watch it again tonight. In real time though i was hugely disappointed in Golovkin. In fight 1 triple G chased Canelo round the ring and pressured him to fight at his pace.

In this fight i felt like Canelo stood in the middle of the ring and gave Golovkin a lesson in counter punching. Golovkin srepped it up in the 2nd half but didn't do enough. Canelo is a better boxer.

No, Golovkin is a better boxer. He made that clear by boxing Canelo and winning most of the rounds.

[boxing_rocks]

[imaioral]

Well, first of all, I agree with the quote "against facts, there are no arguments" and there are plenty of them to defend my point of view of who won.

I was rooting for GGG in both fight, I don't like Canelo but I have to agree that he won. Fans may be blind and cannot accept the defeat of their idols, but sometimes it's necessary.

The facts that I defend are these:

- The age difference that physiologically makes most people get tired or slower (even if hardly trained) because the body can’t use oxygen as effectively and the muscles weaken too. This took GGG, even absorbing well the punches, made his body suffer in a cumulative intensity, thus leading to get tired earlier/faster then Canelo.
(http://theconversation.com/how-does-agi ... ance-36051)

- The higher percentage and quantity amount of clean connected power punches in the entire fight compared to GGG *(1 of the 4 categories a judge use to score a round)
(http://www.premierboxingchampions.com/n ... core-fight)
(https://www.forbes.com/sites/brianmaziq ... 6d73532b9f)

* - Some may say sh1t, but all the 3 judges chosen are the most competent judges in the sport with more than 20 years of experience (some 40 years).

- The visible consequences of higher and cleaner connected punching by Canelo on GGG's face just as the fight finished (his face much more destroyed if compared with the 1st fight... when actually he was used to do it on his opponents not the opposite)
(https://www.mma-core.com/videos/A_LOOK_ ... M/10241268)

- The general physique, skills and speed of Canelo were in most moments of the fight, superior from GGG, but I personally emphasize Canelo's speed, that allied with the other factors put him on advantage over GGG catching him many times with an opened defensive gap, lower guard or in some cases unaware.

In general was nice to see that GGG changed his way of fighting from a suicide "always forward" brawler one (1st fight) that puts him on a kind of silly/ingenuous concept/idea that Canelo would come forward on a classic Mexican bout (like last Ramirez vs Orozco fight) when Canelo was entirely much more strategic, defensive and counter punching to a strategic one (2nd fight) with much more defensive skills, offensive movements, combinations and general ring intelligence.

All of this gave a superb strategical fight between this great boxers, but the age difference, ring IQ, punching accuracy and speed lead Canelo win over GGG and in no other way GGG would win if not KO the woodpecker.

My personal scorecard was:

Round 1 - GGG
Round 2 - Canelo
Round 3 - Canelo
Round 4 - GGG
Round 5 - Canelo
Round 6 - Canelo
Round 7 - GGG
Round 8 - Canelo
Round 9 - Canelo
Round 10 - GGG
Round 11 - GGG
Round 12 - Canelo

Final score = 115-113 Canelo

* The idea of a second fight was stupid, IMO the 1st GGG lost by 115-113 on almost the same ways as this 2nd. Against Jacobs he showed he wasn't as he was with his 27-32 years old, the terminator boxer, he showed that he wasn't impossible to win... After GGG-Canelo 1, he was with almost all belts, he could fight with Billy Joe, unify literally all 5 belts and retire undefeated and undisputed for the jealous of most boxers, but as money talks, he chose to risk his belts and 0 and got fckd.

GGG lost, no more cry, accept it that hurt less, period.

[boxing_rocks]

96% of media says that Golovkin didn't lose, but a few idiots call that "crying".

[candyslim]

@ Imaioral: Mate you thought Canelo won that's fine. You are perfectly entitled to your opinion even if it is very much a minority. There are good judges who know their stuff such as Graham Houston who saw it as you do.

But please don't give us that crap about these being the most competent and experienced judges in the sport, the implication being they know what they're looking at and we don't. Even if that were true about their experience and competence, do you think that grants them immunity from political considerations? Do you not think the reason they are so experienced at judging fights in Vegas might be that they can be relied upon to consistently pick the right winner ... and when I say 'right' I don't necessarily mean the one who landed the greater number and more effective punches.

Do you not find it odd that boxing fans on this forum have Golovkin the winner by 72 votes to 16 and most would say that was very much closer than the first fight, yet not one of the six judges over the two fights though GGG won it?

Maybe we are mainly idiots on here, and they are experienced and competent professional judges? Or maybe it's more the case they don't want to say goodbye to their lucrative little number, metaphorically giving the finger to the people who ensure their appointments, by doing a fool thing like scoring for the wrong boxer?

Edited: because I wrongly addressed the above to Conan whereas it should have been Imaioral - sorry Conan.

[imaioral]

96% of media says that Golovkin didn't lose, but a few idiots call that "crying".

Send the source of this information, I found only 65% for GGG and 35% Canelo and mostly aren't boxing judges or analysts, and most judge by their emotional, because are fan of the man not by reason and facts... talk even my parrot talk...

[imaioral]

We have many pro judges here, I think most should be judging in A class bouts if they are so almighty wise instead of talking assumptions without proofs on a boxing forum!

[Blodhemn]

Well, first of all, I agree with the quote "against facts, there are no arguments" and there are plenty of them to defend my point of view of who won.

I was rooting for GGG in both fight, I don't like Canelo but I have to agree that he won. Fans may be blind and cannot accept the defeat of their idols, but sometimes it's necessary.

The facts that I defend are these:

- The age difference that physiologically makes most people get tired or slower (even if hardly trained) because the body can’t use oxygen as effectively and the muscles weaken too. This took GGG, even absorbing well the punches, made his body suffer in a cumulative intensity, thus leading to get tired earlier/faster then Canelo.
(http://theconversation.com/how-does-agi ... ance-36051)

- The higher percentage and quantity amount of clean connected power punches in the entire fight compared to GGG *(1 of the 4 categories a judge use to score a round)
(http://www.premierboxingchampions.com/n ... core-fight)
(https://www.forbes.com/sites/brianmaziq ... 6d73532b9f)

* - Some may say sh1t, but all the 3 judges chosen are the most competent judges in the sport with more than 20 years of experience (some 40 years).

- The visible consequences of higher and cleaner connected punching by Canelo on GGG's face just as the fight finished (his face much more destroyed if compared with the 1st fight... when actually he was used to do it on his opponents not the opposite)
(https://www.mma-core.com/videos/A_LOOK_ ... M/10241268)

- The general physique, skills and speed of Canelo were in most moments of the fight, superior from GGG, but I personally emphasize Canelo's speed, that allied with the other factors put him on advantage over GGG catching him many times with an opened defensive gap, lower guard or in some cases unaware.

In general was nice to see that GGG changed his way of fighting from a suicide "always forward" brawler one (1st fight) that puts him on a kind of silly/ingenuous concept/idea that Canelo would come forward on a classic Mexican bout (like last Ramirez vs Orozco fight) when Canelo was entirely much more strategic, defensive and counter punching to a strategic one (2nd fight) with much more defensive skills, offensive movements, combinations and general ring intelligence.

All of this gave a superb strategical fight between this great boxers, but the age difference, ring IQ, punching accuracy and speed lead Canelo win over GGG and in no other way GGG would win if not KO the woodpecker.

My personal scorecard was:

Round 1 - GGG
Round 2 - Canelo
Round 3 - Canelo
Round 4 - GGG
Round 5 - Canelo
Round 6 - Canelo
Round 7 - GGG
Round 8 - Canelo
Round 9 - Canelo
Round 10 - GGG
Round 11 - GGG
Round 12 - Canelo

Final score = 115-113 Canelo

* The idea of a second fight was stupid, IMO the 1st GGG lost by 115-113 on almost the same ways as this 2nd. Against Jacobs he showed he wasn't as he was with his 27-32 years old, the terminator boxer, he showed that he wasn't impossible to win... After GGG-Canelo 1, he was with almost all belts, he could fight with Billy Joe, unify literally all 5 belts and retire undefeated and undisputed for the jealous of most boxers, but as money talks, he chose to risk his belts and 0 and got fckd.

GGG lost, no more cry, accept it that hurt less, period.

Sorry but that is a terrible post. Almost every word can be disputed from top to bottom. Very few, if any, relative facts.

[Ricky]

Just rewatched the fight.

Excellent war. Some very tight rounds. Golovkin had the volume & canelo did hit gloves which were probably seen as scoring. Canelo had the combos and the beautiful counters. Golovkin visibly gassed in r5 and struggled with the pace thereafter. The most telling aspect of the fight was Canelo's ring generalship. Golovkin forced Canelo to fight in the furst fight.... well this one was role's reversed. Canelo commanded the ring from the first til last bell. It's also worth noting Golovkin looked a weight class bigger.

R1 ggg
R2 canelo
R3 ggg
R4 ggg
R5 canelo
R6 canelo
R7 canelo
R8 canelo
R9 canelo
R 10 canelo
R 11 ggg
R 12 ggg

115-113 Canelo.

Really don't see what the fuss is about, i gave GGG some tight rounds there such as r3 & r11. I could viably score this 117-111 for Canelo. Just don't tell me Golovkin won this fight.

Imo both fights were conclusive. Ggg clearly won the first bout, Canelo clearly won the rematch.

[boxing_rocks]

96% of media says that Golovkin didn't lose, but a few idiots call that "crying".

Send the source of this information, I found only 65% for GGG and 35% Canelo and mostly aren't boxing judges or analysts, and most judge by their emotional, because are fan of the man not by reason and facts... talk even my parrot talk...

[boxing_rocks]

Just rewatched the fight.

Excellent war. Some very tight rounds. Golovkin had the volume & canelo did hit gloves which were probably seen as scoring. Canelo had the combos and the beautiful counters. Golovkin visibly gassed in r5 and struggled with the pace thereafter. The most telling aspect of the fight was Canelo's ring generalship. Golovkin forced Canelo to fight in the furst fight.... well this one was role's reversed. Canelo commanded the ring from the first til last bell. It's also worth noting Golovkin looked a weight class bigger.

R1 ggg
R2 canelo
R3 ggg
R4 ggg
R5 canelo
R6 canelo
R7 canelo
R8 canelo
R9 canelo
R 10 canelo
R 11 ggg
R 12 ggg

115-113 Canelo.

Really don't see what the fuss is about, i gave GGG some tight rounds there such as r3 & r11. I could viably score this 117-111 for Canelo. Just don't tell me Golovkin won this fight.

Imo both fights were conclusive. Ggg clearly won the first bout, Canelo clearly won the rematch.

Canelo was the one landing his "body shots" on elbows and most of his power punches on gloves. Golovkin outboxed the boxer in general and in round 12 in particular.

[Ricky]

Just rewatched the fight.

Excellent war. Some very tight rounds. Golovkin had the volume & canelo did hit gloves which were probably seen as scoring. Canelo had the combos and the beautiful counters. Golovkin visibly gassed in r5 and struggled with the pace thereafter. The most telling aspect of the fight was Canelo's ring generalship. Golovkin forced Canelo to fight in the furst fight.... well this one was role's reversed. Canelo commanded the ring from the first til last bell. It's also worth noting Golovkin looked a weight class bigger.

R1 ggg
R2 canelo
R3 ggg
R4 ggg
R5 canelo
R6 canelo
R7 canelo
R8 canelo
R9 canelo
R 10 canelo
R 11 ggg
R 12 ggg

115-113 Canelo.

Really don't see what the fuss is about, i gave GGG some tight rounds there such as r3 & r11. I could viably score this 117-111 for Canelo. Just don't tell me Golovkin won this fight.

Imo both fights were conclusive. Ggg clearly won the first bout, Canelo clearly won the rematch.

Canelo was the one landing his "body shots" on elbows and most of his power punches on gloves. Golovkin outboxed the boxer in general and in round 12 in particular.

Golovkin did no such thing. Canelo's hands were sharper and more accurate, he forced the bigger man and bigger puncher on to the back foot. It was a sensational performance and the best win any fighter has had since Marquez beat Pacquiao.

[jamamb]

ya if only youd come to your senses before the fight

[Ricky]

ya if only youd come to your senses before the fight

I was happy with my bets. Golovkin seriously shook Canelo. No doubt he would have stopped any version of Canelo 4 years ago.

[boxing_rocks]

Just rewatched the fight.

Excellent war. Some very tight rounds. Golovkin had the volume & canelo did hit gloves which were probably seen as scoring. Canelo had the combos and the beautiful counters. Golovkin visibly gassed in r5 and struggled with the pace thereafter. The most telling aspect of the fight was Canelo's ring generalship. Golovkin forced Canelo to fight in the furst fight.... well this one was role's reversed. Canelo commanded the ring from the first til last bell. It's also worth noting Golovkin looked a weight class bigger.

R1 ggg
R2 canelo
R3 ggg
R4 ggg
R5 canelo
R6 canelo
R7 canelo
R8 canelo
R9 canelo
R 10 canelo
R 11 ggg
R 12 ggg

115-113 Canelo.

Really don't see what the fuss is about, i gave GGG some tight rounds there such as r3 & r11. I could viably score this 117-111 for Canelo. Just don't tell me Golovkin won this fight.

Imo both fights were conclusive. Ggg clearly won the first bout, Canelo clearly won the rematch.

Canelo was the one landing his "body shots" on elbows and most of his power punches on gloves. Golovkin outboxed the boxer in general and in round 12 in particular.

Golovkin did no such thing. Canelo's hands were sharper and more accurate, he forced the bigger man and bigger puncher on to the back foot. It was a sensational performance and the best win any fighter has had since Marquez beat Pacquiao.

Well, 96% of media disagree with you.

[Ricky]

Canelo was the one landing his "body shots" on elbows and most of his power punches on gloves. Golovkin outboxed the boxer in general and in round 12 in particular.

Golovkin did no such thing. Canelo's hands were sharper and more accurate, he forced the bigger man and bigger puncher on to the back foot. It was a sensational performance and the best win any fighter has had since Marquez beat Pacquiao.

Well, 96% of media disagree with you.

So?

[boxing_rocks]

Golovkin did no such thing. Canelo's hands were sharper and more accurate, he forced the bigger man and bigger puncher on to the back foot. It was a sensational performance and the best win any fighter has had since Marquez beat Pacquiao.

Well, 96% of media disagree with you.

So?

So, you are wrong with 96% certainty.

[tiny_acres]

Golovkin did no such thing. Canelo's hands were sharper and more accurate, he forced the bigger man and bigger puncher on to the back foot. It was a sensational performance and the best win any fighter has had since Marquez beat Pacquiao.

Well, 96% of media disagree with you.

So?

At the time I am posting this forum members saw it this way
72% GGG
12% Draw
16%Canelo

I am not saying that your opinion that Canelo won is wrong. But You can not call it a CLEAR win when the majority saw it different

[jamamb]

not that i disagree with rky on this fight, but good luck convincing him hes wrong. hes the same guy who was utterly unwaively convinced that broner put on some type of 10-2 boxing master class vs vargas

[Ricky]

Well, 96% of media disagree with you.

So?

At the time I am posting this forum members saw it this way
72% GGG
12% Draw
16%Canelo

I am not saying that your opinion that Canelo won is wrong. But You can not call it a CLEAR win when the majority saw it different

Tiny my friend, it's Ricky_, hope you are doing well!

As for the poll, given some of the posters we've git around here forgive me for not taking it too seriously

How did you score it?

[tiny_acres]

So?

At the time I am posting this forum members saw it this way
72% GGG
12% Draw
16%Canelo

I am not saying that your opinion that Canelo won is wrong. But You can not call it a CLEAR win when the majority saw it different

Tiny my friend, it's Ricky_, hope you are doing well!

As for the poll, given some of the posters we've git around here forgive me for not taking it too seriously

How did you score it?

Glad to see you back my friend. I'm doing great.
But I had it for GGG by 2 rounds. But it was a close fight. The kind of fight where it will never be clear to the fans

[Ricky]

At the time I am posting this forum members saw it this way
72% GGG
12% Draw
16%Canelo

I am not saying that your opinion that Canelo won is wrong. But You can not call it a CLEAR win when the majority saw it different

Tiny my friend, it's Ricky_, hope you are doing well!

As for the poll, given some of the posters we've git around here forgive me for not taking it too seriously

How did you score it?

Glad to see you back my friend. I'm doing great.
But I had it for GGG by 2 rounds. But it was a close fight. The kind of fight where it will never be clear to the fans

How many times have you watched it?

The judges cards were pretty consistent imo. The last round made the difference.

All 3 judges had the same score of 105-104 to Canelo going into r12.

Ggg definitely won r12 but only 1 judge gave him it- making it the 114-114 card.

The other 2 wrongly gave Canelo r12, giving it 115-113.

I wouldn't have argued much if it was a draw, since the first fight was a travesty, but honestly I think you need to give Golovkin every benefit to find 6 rounds for him in fight 2.

[tiny_acres]

Tiny my friend, it's Ricky_, hope you are doing well!

As for the poll, given some of the posters we've git around here forgive me for not taking it too seriously

How did you score it?

Glad to see you back my friend. I'm doing great.
But I had it for GGG by 2 rounds. But it was a close fight. The kind of fight where it will never be clear to the fans

How many times have you watched it?

The judges cards were pretty consistent imo. The last round made the difference.

All 3 judges had the same score of 105-104 to Canelo going into r12.

Ggg definitely won r12 but only 1 judge gave him it- making it the 114-114 card.

The other 2 wrongly gave Canelo r12, giving it 115-113.

I wouldn't have argued much if it was a draw, since the first fight was a travesty, but honestly I think you need to give Golovkin every benefit to find 6 rounds for him in fight 2.

I watched it twice both time same score GGG by 2 rounds.

[imaioral]

96% of media says that Golovkin didn't lose, but a few idiots call that "crying".

Send the source of this information, I found only 65% for GGG and 35% Canelo and mostly aren't boxing judges or analysts, and most judge by their emotional, because are fan of the man not by reason and facts... talk even my parrot talk...

It is still 67,8% in favor of GGG, not 96%, learn how to count and rule of three....