Classic Fantasy Fight: 1965 Cassius Clay vs 1986 Mike Tyson

[SenorPipino]

I guess you're trying to say that Tyson would beat Ali.

How many pints for you today?

Mentally weak, emotionally fragile Mikey would, as always, fall apart in sections when facing someone who couldn't be untimidated.

Someone like The Greatest.

Ali possessed unsurpassed mental strength. In heavyweight championship history, Tyson might be at the bottom of that category.

I've never understood the fascination and reverence for Tyson. He lost 5 times. In all those bouts, he wasn't around to hear the final bell.

Not very impressive.

Simply a guy who backed off and submitted when confronted with adversity.

Big punch. Fast hands. Tough guy aura.

But challenge him, and the self doubting, insecure Tyson couldn't begin looking for the exit fast enough.

Ali earned his legendary reputation by boldly standing up to tough guys and handing them their heads.

Frazier, Foreman, Liston. All hard punching, unbeatable tough guys who had more heart and determination than Tyson could dream of possessing.

Ali solved each and every one them.

And fragile Tyson never demonstrated that he could offer the sort of challenge that would threaten Ali or even put a small dent in his armor.

[cfang]

I guess you're trying to say that Tyson would beat Ali.

How many pints for you today?

Mentally weak, emotionally fragile Mikey would, as always, fall apart in sections when facing someone who couldn't be untimidated.

Someone like The Greatest.

Ali possessed unsurpassed mental strength. In heavyweight championship history, Tyson might be at the bottom of that category.

I've never understood the fascination and reverence for Tyson. He lost 5 times. In all those bouts, he wasn't around to hear the final bell.

Not very impressive.

Simply a guy who backed off and submitted when confronted with adversity.

Big punch. Fast hands. Tough guy aura.

But challenge him, and the self doubting, insecure Tyson couldn't begin looking for the exit fast enough.

Ali earned his legendary reputation by boldly standing up to tough guys and handing them their heads.

Frazier, Foreman, Liston. All hard punching, unbeatable tough guys who had more heart and determination than Tyson could dream of possessing.

Ali solved each and every one them.

And fragile Tyson never demonstrated that he could offer the sort of challenge that would threaten Ali or even put a small dent in his armor.

Agree with this. Tyson never won a fight he looked like he may lose. Every time he was in trouble he lost. Unless he just manages to walk through Ali in the first few rounds (highly unlikely) then i can't see him winning.

[writehooks]

Ali's whirlwind jabs cut Mike's face to ribbons over the first three rounds. Unable to cope and facing the very real possibility of being counted out on the canvas, Tyson quits after four.

[Syntax Error]

I guess you're trying to say that Tyson would beat Ali.

How many pints for you today?

Mentally weak, emotionally fragile Mikey would, as always, fall apart in sections when facing someone who couldn't be untimidated.

Someone like The Greatest.

Ali possessed unsurpassed mental strength. In heavyweight championship history, Tyson might be at the bottom of that category.

I've never understood the fascination and reverence for Tyson. He lost 5 times. In all those bouts, he wasn't around to hear the final bell.

Not very impressive.

Simply a guy who backed off and submitted when confronted with adversity.

Big punch. Fast hands. Tough guy aura.

But challenge him, and the self doubting, insecure Tyson couldn't begin looking for the exit fast enough.

Ali earned his legendary reputation by boldly standing up to tough guys and handing them their heads.

Frazier, Foreman, Liston. All hard punching, unbeatable tough guys who had more heart and determination than Tyson could dream of possessing.

Ali solved each and every one them.

And fragile Tyson never demonstrated that he could offer the sort of challenge that would threaten Ali or even put a small dent in his armor.

Wholeheartedly agree with this.

Bully boy Mike isn't getting the better of peak Ali.

Mental strength cannot be underestimated: Ali had it spades, Tyson was notoriously lacking in it.

[drunkenpiper36]

Best for best I'd pick Ali to beat Tyson. But for me, I think Clay was at his best around 1966-67. The 1965 version of Ali was off for over a year in between the Liston bouts, and prior to that was floored by Henry cooper with a left hook and barely got an iffy decision over Doug Jones. It should also be noted that Ali systematically was prone to getting tagged with the left his entire career and that was one of Tyson's best punches. I think Iron Mike of 1986 decisions 1965 Ali, but loses to him anytime after that.

[adislav123]

I guess you're trying to say that Tyson would beat Ali.

How many pints for you today?

Mentally weak, emotionally fragile Mikey would, as always, fall apart in sections when facing someone who couldn't be untimidated.

Someone like The Greatest.

Ali possessed unsurpassed mental strength. In heavyweight championship history, Tyson might be at the bottom of that category.

I've never understood the fascination and reverence for Tyson. He lost 5 times. In all those bouts, he wasn't around to hear the final bell.

Not very impressive.

Simply a guy who backed off and submitted when confronted with adversity.

Big punch. Fast hands. Tough guy aura.

But challenge him, and the self doubting, insecure Tyson couldn't begin looking for the exit fast enough.

Ali earned his legendary reputation by boldly standing up to tough guys and handing them their heads.

Frazier, Foreman, Liston. All hard punching, unbeatable tough guys who had more heart and determination than Tyson could dream of possessing.

Ali solved each and every one them.

And fragile Tyson never demonstrated that he could offer the sort of challenge that would threaten Ali or even put a small dent in his armor.

Wholeheartedly agree with this.

Bully boy Mike isn't getting the better of peak Ali.

Mental strength cannot be underestimated: Ali had it spades, Tyson was notoriously lacking in it.

total ignorance regarding what it takes to make it in professional boxing, mentally & physically! Total cluelessness regarding the complexity of the human mind & just plain loudmouth-stupidity, not worth answering, just cringeworthy, shameful statements, regardless of who would've beaten whom in fantasy match-ups!

[Counter-puncher]

I guess you're trying to say that Tyson would beat Ali.

How many pints for you today?

Mentally weak, emotionally fragile Mikey would, as always, fall apart in sections when facing someone who couldn't be untimidated.

Someone like The Greatest.

Ali possessed unsurpassed mental strength. In heavyweight championship history, Tyson might be at the bottom of that category.

I've never understood the fascination and reverence for Tyson. He lost 5 times. In all those bouts, he wasn't around to hear the final bell.

Not very impressive.

Simply a guy who backed off and submitted when confronted with adversity.

Big punch. Fast hands. Tough guy aura.

But challenge him, and the self doubting, insecure Tyson couldn't begin looking for the exit fast enough.

Ali earned his legendary reputation by boldly standing up to tough guys and handing them their heads.

Frazier, Foreman, Liston. All hard punching, unbeatable tough guys who had more heart and determination than Tyson could dream of possessing.

Ali solved each and every one them.

And fragile Tyson never demonstrated that he could offer the sort of challenge that would threaten Ali or even put a small dent in his armor.

Wholeheartedly agree with this.

Bully boy Mike isn't getting the better of peak Ali.

Mental strength cannot be underestimated: Ali had it spades, Tyson was notoriously lacking in it.

total ignorance regarding what it takes to make it in professional boxing, mentally & physically! Total cluelessness regarding the complexity of the human mind & just plain loudmouth-stupidity, not worth answering, just cringeworthy, shameful statements, regardless of who would've beaten whom in fantasy match-ups!

u ok hun?

[adislav123]

bit of a heartburn! Otherwise a-okay, baby! Thank's for asking!

[Counter-puncher]

looked more like spleen to me

[BoxBuzz]

What's with Cassius Clay?

The man was called Muhammad Ali by 1965 and probably wouldn't take kindly to being called by his slave name (in his words).

Pedants aside, I favour Ali by late TKO.

Too elusive, too tough and too mentally strong for Tyson.

Agree with everything here, including Ali being Ali in 1965, not Clay.

He officially took the Ali moniker in late 1964.

In 1965, Ali wasn't at his peak. That probably came in late 1966 through the Folley bout in 1967.

Tyson was probably physically at his peak in 1987/1988.

But he was a mentally weak character at any point in his career, and would have melted down when confronted with Ali's speed and frustrating movement and general ring savvy.

The stinging Ali jab would have upset Tyson's rythym and kept him from ever getting untracked.

The easy to discourage Tyson would have basically quit by the 10th round, and it would only be a matter of time before Ali poured it on and sent Tyson to the showers as a TKO victim.

- First off, though Ali weren't bright enough to know it then, his Irish grandpa was a recent immigrant and married his free black granny from his maternal side of the family, nary a slave or slave holder name in that lineage. Maybe his pop had a slave name, but nobody I know has studied that. He had been brainwashed by NOI back then to become mentally unbalanced enough to almost cause the cancellation of the first Liston fight because of hysteria. He couldn't initially pass the physical and lucky to get a second chance. He was 22 for those fights that are infamous for dozens of good reasons.

Just before turning 22, Tyson had literally crucified Tubby Larry who claimed along with his fans he was really 50-0 instead of 48-2, and had laid out undefeated Mike Spinks for dead as well as setting the all time record for career earnings. Nobody in boxing history could match those first 4 years of his. After that the headshrinks put him on strong experimental psych sedatives, but made to 10-0 8 KO title record at age 23 that took Ali until age 25 to match. Tyson's opponents during this time were vastly bigger, stronger, more powerful than empty buckets on Ali's 3 HOFers, 50 yr old Moore, Whiskey trained Liston who was 6-1 fav the first fight and still the fav the 2nd, and brokeback Patterson. Tyson was 36-0 overall, and Ali at 28-0

That Ali wouldn't win a single fight against that Tyson because he was distinctly vulnerable to KDs by little guy Banks and Cooper left hooks and being mullered by little Doug Jones. He was still Gaseous Cassius to the public, yet later a magnificent return to boxing as Ali.

At some point past that time Mike has lost his vastly superior HOF team of D'amato, Jacobs, and Cayton and becomes a clubfighting, free swinging zombie known for early demolitions. Given their previous fantasy history of Ali losing every one of those early fights, it would be doubtful if he was more than a drooling vegetable. Now if you could magically pick Ali from his actual timeline after his return to boxing and put him in with the DKing and later post prison Tyson, now we have a competitive fight that Ali could win at least 50%. Ali was the more active fighter whereas Tyson something of a 4 rd part timer at that phase, but if he got Ali in early trouble, ref might well pull the plug.

So, best to best Tyson smokes Ali, but never fear ye doubters of the factual history of both fighters, all eventually to be settled in Valhalla, so best mind your manners and hope and pray they allow dumkopf fan boys in. I'm hardly a fan of Tyson, but he is what he was and is unmatched what he accomplished with the savviest HOF team in history, a juggernaut! And even now a 50 year old Tyson would KTFO of any version of Leon Spinks that ever existed. Ali was soiling himself by the end of his career as his sycophants and loony fans kept him propped up way past his expiration date.

The best written fiction can often times compete with the facts for pure entertainment value.

[Syntax Error]

Agree with everything here, including Ali being Ali in 1965, not Clay.

He officially took the Ali moniker in late 1964.

In 1965, Ali wasn't at his peak. That probably came in late 1966 through the Folley bout in 1967.

Tyson was probably physically at his peak in 1987/1988.

But he was a mentally weak character at any point in his career, and would have melted down when confronted with Ali's speed and frustrating movement and general ring savvy.

The stinging Ali jab would have upset Tyson's rythym and kept him from ever getting untracked.

The easy to discourage Tyson would have basically quit by the 10th round, and it would only be a matter of time before Ali poured it on and sent Tyson to the showers as a TKO victim.

- First off, though Ali weren't bright enough to know it then, his Irish grandpa was a recent immigrant and married his free black granny from his maternal side of the family, nary a slave or slave holder name in that lineage. Maybe his pop had a slave name, but nobody I know has studied that. He had been brainwashed by NOI back then to become mentally unbalanced enough to almost cause the cancellation of the first Liston fight because of hysteria. He couldn't initially pass the physical and lucky to get a second chance. He was 22 for those fights that are infamous for dozens of good reasons.

Just before turning 22, Tyson had literally crucified Tubby Larry who claimed along with his fans he was really 50-0 instead of 48-2, and had laid out undefeated Mike Spinks for dead as well as setting the all time record for career earnings. Nobody in boxing history could match those first 4 years of his. After that the headshrinks put him on strong experimental psych sedatives, but made to 10-0 8 KO title record at age 23 that took Ali until age 25 to match. Tyson's opponents during this time were vastly bigger, stronger, more powerful than empty buckets on Ali's 3 HOFers, 50 yr old Moore, Whiskey trained Liston who was 6-1 fav the first fight and still the fav the 2nd, and brokeback Patterson. Tyson was 36-0 overall, and Ali at 28-0

That Ali wouldn't win a single fight against that Tyson because he was distinctly vulnerable to KDs by little guy Banks and Cooper left hooks and being mullered by little Doug Jones. He was still Gaseous Cassius to the public, yet later a magnificent return to boxing as Ali.

At some point past that time Mike has lost his vastly superior HOF team of D'amato, Jacobs, and Cayton and becomes a clubfighting, free swinging zombie known for early demolitions. Given their previous fantasy history of Ali losing every one of those early fights, it would be doubtful if he was more than a drooling vegetable. Now if you could magically pick Ali from his actual timeline after his return to boxing and put him in with the DKing and later post prison Tyson, now we have a competitive fight that Ali could win at least 50%. Ali was the more active fighter whereas Tyson something of a 4 rd part timer at that phase, but if he got Ali in early trouble, ref might well pull the plug.

So, best to best Tyson smokes Ali, but never fear ye doubters of the factual history of both fighters, all eventually to be settled in Valhalla, so best mind your manners and hope and pray they allow dumkopf fan boys in. I'm hardly a fan of Tyson, but he is what he was and is unmatched what he accomplished with the savviest HOF team in history, a juggernaut! And even now a 50 year old Tyson would KTFO of any version of Leon Spinks that ever existed. Ali was soiling himself by the end of his career as his sycophants and loony fans kept him propped up way past his expiration date.

The best written fiction can often times compete with the facts for pure entertainment value.

I give you full props for reading the whole thing.

I never read that poster's full posts anymore, because I just cannot abide people who use 25 words when 1 will do.

He/she spends so much time trying to insult, patronise and make out that their opinion on an hypothetical issue is a fact, that their point gets lost amongst the waffle.

[Syntax Error]

I guess you're trying to say that Tyson would beat Ali.

How many pints for you today?

Mentally weak, emotionally fragile Mikey would, as always, fall apart in sections when facing someone who couldn't be untimidated.

Someone like The Greatest.

Ali possessed unsurpassed mental strength. In heavyweight championship history, Tyson might be at the bottom of that category.

I've never understood the fascination and reverence for Tyson. He lost 5 times. In all those bouts, he wasn't around to hear the final bell.

Not very impressive.

Simply a guy who backed off and submitted when confronted with adversity.

Big punch. Fast hands. Tough guy aura.

But challenge him, and the self doubting, insecure Tyson couldn't begin looking for the exit fast enough.

Ali earned his legendary reputation by boldly standing up to tough guys and handing them their heads.

Frazier, Foreman, Liston. All hard punching, unbeatable tough guys who had more heart and determination than Tyson could dream of possessing.

Ali solved each and every one them.

And fragile Tyson never demonstrated that he could offer the sort of challenge that would threaten Ali or even put a small dent in his armor.

Wholeheartedly agree with this.

Bully boy Mike isn't getting the better of peak Ali.

Mental strength cannot be underestimated: Ali had it spades, Tyson was notoriously lacking in it.

total ignorance regarding what it takes to make it in professional boxing, mentally & physically! Total cluelessness regarding the complexity of the human mind & just plain loudmouth-stupidity, not worth answering, just cringeworthy, shameful statements, regardless of who would've beaten whom in fantasy match-ups!

Well pseudo genius, why did you respond at all?

Do you think I'm interested in your opinion my posts?

Newsflash; I'm not.

If you're dense enough to think that folk like me think that mental strength is the only factor we consider when coming to our conclusions, then I am grateful that you're not intending to respond.

[adislav123]

i call bullshit on that. bullshit-artist! i didn´t respond at all.

to call tyson weak, mentally fragile, self doubting, insecure, a bull boy, notoriously lacking mental strength, falling apart when he could not intimidate, backing off and submitting when confronting adversity, when challenged to look for the exit as fast as possible. i call bullshit on that!

i may have overreacted a bit, but just for fun. i take back the "loudmouth-stupidity" and apologize for that, sorry, man! that was uncalled for, still i call bullshit! on those statements and still find them ignorant and very stupid. the comments, not you personally!
cheers!

[BroughtonRulesRefuge]

- First off, though Ali weren't bright enough to know it then, his Irish grandpa was a recent immigrant and married his free black granny from his maternal side of the family, nary a slave or slave holder name in that lineage. Maybe his pop had a slave name, but nobody I know has studied that. He had been brainwashed by NOI back then to become mentally unbalanced enough to almost cause the cancellation of the first Liston fight because of hysteria. He couldn't initially pass the physical and lucky to get a second chance. He was 22 for those fights that are infamous for dozens of good reasons.

Just before turning 22, Tyson had literally crucified Tubby Larry who claimed along with his fans he was really 50-0 instead of 48-2, and had laid out undefeated Mike Spinks for dead as well as setting the all time record for career earnings. Nobody in boxing history could match those first 4 years of his. After that the headshrinks put him on strong experimental psych sedatives, but made to 10-0 8 KO title record at age 23 that took Ali until age 25 to match. Tyson's opponents during this time were vastly bigger, stronger, more powerful than empty buckets on Ali's 3 HOFers, 50 yr old Moore, Whiskey trained Liston who was 6-1 fav the first fight and still the fav the 2nd, and brokeback Patterson. Tyson was 36-0 overall, and Ali at 28-0

That Ali wouldn't win a single fight against that Tyson because he was distinctly vulnerable to KDs by little guy Banks and Cooper left hooks and being mullered by little Doug Jones. He was still Gaseous Cassius to the public, yet later a magnificent return to boxing as Ali.

At some point past that time Mike has lost his vastly superior HOF team of D'amato, Jacobs, and Cayton and becomes a clubfighting, free swinging zombie known for early demolitions. Given their previous fantasy history of Ali losing every one of those early fights, it would be doubtful if he was more than a drooling vegetable. Now if you could magically pick Ali from his actual timeline after his return to boxing and put him in with the DKing and later post prison Tyson, now we have a competitive fight that Ali could win at least 50%. Ali was the more active fighter whereas Tyson something of a 4 rd part timer at that phase, but if he got Ali in early trouble, ref might well pull the plug.

So, best to best Tyson smokes Ali, but never fear ye doubters of the factual history of both fighters, all eventually to be settled in Valhalla, so best mind your manners and hope and pray they allow dumkopf fan boys in. I'm hardly a fan of Tyson, but he is what he was and is unmatched what he accomplished with the savviest HOF team in history, a juggernaut! And even now a 50 year old Tyson would KTFO of any version of Leon Spinks that ever existed. Ali was soiling himself by the end of his career as his sycophants and loony fans kept him propped up way past his expiration date.

The best written fiction can often times compete with the facts for pure entertainment value.

I give you full props for reading the whole thing.

I never read that poster's full posts anymore, because I just cannot abide people who use 25 words when 1 will do.

He/she spends so much time trying to insult, patronise and make out that their opinion on an hypothetical issue is a fact, that their point gets lost amongst the waffle.