The Birth & Death Anniversary of Rocky Marciano

[Cojimar 1946]

I don't find the arguments about Frazier being better than guys who dominated their eras based on fighting better opponents to be very persuasive.

Jack Dempsey for example ducked some of the best fighters of his era and if anything his best wins are less impressive than Marciano's. Jack Johnson also doesn't have a particularly strong resume and ducked the best fighters as champion. Both of these guys are frequently rated ahead of Frazier despite an apparent lack of quality competition.

[Cojimar 1946]

Anyway, I don't think H2H should determine greatness, H2H David Tua would beat Dempsey or Fitzsimmons easily but that doesn't mean he should rate ahead of either.

[Ambling Alp II]

At what sport would Tua have won easily?

[Cojimar 1946]

Dempsey aggressive style would play into Tuas hands he would be slugging with someone who was more durable and a better puncher.

[Cojimar 1946]

Someone well below the current cruiserweight limit who wasn't hard to hit and who was dropped and badly hurt by Firpo does not seem like a good matchup for someone as powerful as Tua. It's not difficult to see this is a bad matchup for Dempsey who was not particularly adept defensively and showed he could be hurt by lesser punchers.

[HomicideHenry]

Dempsey as a contender was virtually unbeatable, but Dempsey the champion was slightly less & as each year passed he became less & less. When he fought Firpo, the truth is he didn't expect a real fight there because outside of beating up an older, inactive Willard there wasn't much there to indicate the Argentinian was a real threat. So Dempsey ended up getting caught with shots, goes through the ropes, and comes out blasting harder than ever.

[Controversial]

Dempsey walked forward with his hands by his stomach, he was successful in that era because he was so aggressive, hit hard, was a two handed puncher and trained hard. He was a new style of fighter for those times which is why he stood out so much, but there are bigger guys like him around today, Dempsey too small and vulnerable to stand a chance today.

[Ambling Alp II]

Dempsey was way too fast and too active for Tua.

Dempsey usually walked in at an angle and was not easy to hit. He destroyed big guys like Willard and Morris.
People like to remember Tua for his exciting fights against Ibeabuchi and Rahman, and for blowing out Ruiz.
He also had fights where he did next to nothing for most of the fight.
In key fights such as Byrd and Lewis he was pretty much a punching bag. For most of the Oquendo fight he was as well.

In fantasy matches, pick usually pick the much bigger fighter. In real life, great smaller fighter beat a big fighter almost every single time.

[Cojimar 1946]

His fights don't bear out him being particularly hard to hit his style didn't emphasize defense and he was tagged by Firpo Carpentier Brennan Gibbons etc. Fighting aggressively against Tua is a bad move for someone like Dempsey

[Ambling Alp II]

He didn't fight aggressively against Gibbons. He beat the other guys that you mentioned, and tagged them a lot more than they tagged him. Fighting aggressively against Tua would be a good move because he would land on Tua a lot more than Tua would land against him.

[Cojimar 1946]

The problem is Tuas shots would likely knock Dempsey out. Dempsey doesn't appear to have faced any punches remotely near Tuas caliber and was decked by Tunney and Firpo neither of whom appear to even remotely approach Tua powerwise.

[Cojimar 1946]

The other thing you seem to be overlooking is that Tua appears to have competed in a far stronger era. Tuas era had Holyfield Lewis Tyson Bowe Golota Ibeabuchi Vitali Klitschko etc it's not really comparable with Dempseys era in which many of the top guys were light heavyweights and cruiserweights

[Ambling Alp II]

Of course Tua would be capable of knocking Dempsey out. Once in awhile he landed the left hook. He also slept walked his way through some fights and barely landed it at all. Dempsey landed a lot more with both hands .

btw- Dempsey had a pretty good chin. He was past his best and was knocked down very briefly against Tunney. Firpo was a very big puncher.

As for the "better era game" that you like to play - You have to actually fight the other guys who you are saying were in Tua's era to make a valid point about Tua being able to beat Dempsey.
Tua only fought two of the guys that you mentioned. He went 0-2. . That is hardly compelling evidence that Tua would beat Dempsey.
Dempsey beat Billy Miske and Jack Sharkey.