Billy Collins, Jr.?

[NYDominican]

On June 16, 1983, Billy Collins Jr. fought Luis Resto. Billy entered this fight 14-0 (11 KOs).

Luis' gloves had been illegally tampered with before this bout by Resto's trainer, Panama Lewis. A 3/4 inch hole had been cut into Luis' glove, and an ounce of padding was removed from each.

Resto admitted that Lewis had not only removed the padding from the gloves, but he also dipped his hand wraps in plaster of Paris to harden them.

Billy suffered a torn iris and permanently blurred vision, ending his boxing career. He died (tragically so) on March 6, 1984.


1. Had Luis not cheated, do you think that Billy would have beaten Luis?


2. Had Billy's career not ended so prematurely, do you think that Billy Collins, Jr. could have scaled very high heights in the Super-welterweight division?

If so, why? If not, why not?




Please explain.

[APerno]

On June 16, 1983, Billy Collins Jr. fought Luis Resto. Billy entered this fight 14-0 (11 KOs).

Luis' gloves had been illegally tampered with before this bout by Resto's trainer, Panama Lewis. A 3/4 inch hole had been cut into Luis' glove, and an ounce of padding was removed from each.

Resto admitted that Lewis had not only removed the padding from the gloves, but he also dipped his hand wraps in plaster of Paris to harden them.

Billy suffered a torn iris and permanently blurred vision, ending his boxing career. He died (tragically so) on March 6, 1984.


1. Had Luis not cheated, do you think that Billy would have beaten Luis?


2. Had Billy's career not ended so prematurely, do you think that Billy Collins, Jr. could have scaled very high heights in the Super-welterweight division?

If so, why? If not, why not?


Please explain.

I never heard that before. What I heard was that he was offered a fight by the TV network for six months down the road and would have been back on track for the title shot, but that his the father refused to take the fight because he thought the law suit would garner more money. (He was suing for $100 million.) As far as I know he never had his licence pulled for injury. All the damage was soft tissue damage and that it that would have healed completely in a a few months.

[sweetsci]

My memory from the time was that Collins had to retire due to extensive injuries. I don't have any proof of this, just a memory that may or may not be accurate. I do recall that when he died in the accident it was quite a shock.

[bollocks]

I thought Collins' life went off the rails after the fight and he began drinking heavily, which virtually ended his career

[sweetsci]

I might not be remembering correctly, or I might be reading things into Collins' situation, but I thought Collins started drinking heavily BECAUSE of the career-ending injury. His career, his life-plan, was suddenly over. I'd guess he was also experiencing a lot of physical pain from the injuries.

[DrDuke]

I might not be remembering correctly, or I might be reading things into Collins' situation, but I thought Collins started drinking heavily BECAUSE of the career-ending injury. His career, his life-plan, was suddenly over. I'd guess he was also experiencing a lot of physical pain from the injuries.

That's right. I've seen the documentary once. His eyes were injured, what ended his career. He began to drink not because of the fact of the loss, but because of the fact of career-ending injury suffered in that bout.

[BroughtonRulesRefuge]

- The OP is likely using the worst form of revisionism possible.

Such details were never released as far as I remember and seem to be filled in after a light swatting, journeyman, Resto, had become a sentimental old man beat down by life and the horror of the accusation. Panama Lewis is a lot tougher and quite a bit more clever and still involved in the fringes of the sport. He has never come clean that I recall.

More importantly is the complicit role the NY commish and Billy Collin's father played in even allowing Resto to enter the ring with obviously tampered gloves. The only details released in the day was "the padding had been removed," and that is quite enough by itself. There was nothing in the story about any plaster of paris that has generally been proven to be useless in conferring any advantage due to the time it takes to set up and how quickly it turns back into mush. See the Cleveland Williams experiment in the 60s. Now I suppose by 1983 there was quick set epoxy fortified plaster available, but again, the Commish and Daddy signed off on whatever was there.

If you look at the post fight eyes and swelling of Collins, clearly the bulk of the padding was removed as Daddy immediately noticed when he went over to congratulate Resto. Because of the sleazy nature of Lewis and the Commish, we can never really know the true circumstances. Too much of boxing history becomes a fuzzy smear over time because of such sleaze that is ongoing even today in our 3rd millennium.

[adislav123]

Always a mystery to me why he didn't complain already during the fight. As a fighter you know and feel the difference between getting punched in the face with 8 oz. Gloves and practically bare wrapped fists. Resto felt it for sure too. The corner also should have realised, the damage collins face showed doesn't seem normal? so fornicating painful to watch him pound away on collins grotesquely swolen face in the later rounds. I guess he couldn't fornicating believe how much collins was taking. Collins must have felt something's wrong, still he kept going. Don't get it at all!

[IKSRTFO]

Always a mystery to me why he didn't complain already during the fight. As a fighter you know and feel the difference between getting punched in the face with 8 oz. Gloves and practically bare wrapped fists. Resto felt it for sure too. The corner also should have realised, the damage collins face showed doesn't seem normal? so effing painful to watch him pound away on collins grotesquely swolen face in the later rounds. I guess he couldn't effing believe how much collins was taking. Collins must have felt something's wrong, still he kept going. Don't get it at all!

With that amount of adrenaline, he probably didn't feel it as much as it looked or maybe he simply thought Resto hit hard.

[APerno]

According to SI the 8 ounce gloves were reduced to 6.96 and 6.8 ounces with 7.96 being the accepted minimum - the gloves were only reduced by an ounce, but of course that entire ounce was removed from the front of the glove while the eight ounce weight is applied to the entire glove. - but to say that he was hit with almost bare hands seems a popular overstatement - you have to wonder what then does a 6 ounce Reyes glove feel like ? -- in the end Resto had to hit him to bust Collins up like that - you wonder how bad would he have looked if the gloves were not tampered with; does he still lose the fight?

[adislav123]

A 6 ounce gloves or that shit they use in mma feel like concrete to the face and you take it off quickly if you're used to sparring with 20, 18 or at least 16 oz. gloves but doesn't feel (much) different than an 8 ounce fight-glove obviously, cause the padding is still distributed properly like it should be. I knew that they didn't remove the whole padding obviously cause it would be ridiculously... obvious. Like you said the ounce removed was missing from the front, the part you get hit with. Collins showed unbelievable resiliance to punishment that night, he desperately fought back, just refusing to give in. badly shaken & bruised up, the tampering took a terrible toll on him, in a fair fight he would've conserved more energy, suffered less damage and as a consequence for shure wouldn't have looked like he did & supposedly won the fight. heartbreaking. He must've felt something was off, but i guess found it unsportsmanlike to complain, still don't get it.

[Duran1970]

He mentioned to his corner between rounds that "this guy is strong, very strong"...