Pac Vs Hamed what if

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 08 May 2006, 07:02

I think Hamed would beat the one dimensional Pac.

I mean prime Hamed of the past.

Was reading this topic also. Can't believe they think Pac easily wins.

http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/sho ... hp?t=15137

Twinkle Toes · Post by **Twinkle Toes** » 08 May 2006, 07:09

I'll always maintain that a fit and disciplined Hamed had the ability to beat whoever was out in front of him.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 08 May 2006, 09:10

Sorry, Pacquiao too quick, too good chin for Hamed.

I know Hamed was far from 100% vs Barrera but after that, its still hard to make a case for any version of Hamed to beat them... He hadn't beaten anyone of that class, sure I'm not denying him that he beat some excellent fighters - but these three when at their peak were all timers and Hamed never faced anybody who can be described as an all timer (not at their peak anyway).

I know the Barrera fight was officially close on the cards, but Barrera was always in control, even in Hamed rounds it was felt that Barrera was just taking it easy.

Its kind of like the Mayorga situation now, getting hidings from Tito and DLH doesn't mean your not world class or couldn't beat any of the other belt holders - just Tito and DLH are all timers... just as Barrera/Morales and Pacquiao are.

I think Hamed did a wise decision in not fighting them as we will have the "you never know" argument, but I suspect he couldn't hurt them and they'd all be too quick for him - in their primes.

Its quite odd though with Barrera/Morales/Pacquiao because I think the circumstance when two of the three have met when both were at their prime was Barrera vs Morales 1.... Barrera has always looked faster than Morales when they square off, Pacquiao looked a lot faster than Barrera when they faced off, but then in fight 1 Morales looked faster than Pacqiaou when they met... Quite odd really.

liamlion · Post by **liamlion** » 08 May 2006, 09:24

Twinkle Toes wrote:I'll always maintain that a fit and disciplined Hamed had the ability to beat whoever was out in front of him.

Totally agree.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 08 May 2006, 09:35

stujones wrote:Sorry, Pacquiao too quick, too good chin for Hamed.

I know Hamed was far from 100% vs Barrera but after that, its still hard to make a case for any version of Hamed to beat them... He hadn't beaten anyone of that class, sure I'm not denying him that he beat some excellent fighters - but these three when at their peak were all timers and Hamed never faced any of those (not at their peak).

I know the Barrera fight was officially close on the cards, but Barrera was always in control, even in Hamed rounds it was felt that Barrera was just taking it easy.

Its kind of like the Mayorga situation now, getting hidings from Tito and DLH doesn't mean your not world class or couldn't beat any of the other belt holders - just Tito and DLH are all timers... just as Barrera/Morales and Pacquiao are.

I think Hamed did a wise decision in not fighting them as we will have the "you never know" argument, but I suspect he couldn't hurt them and they'd all be too quick for him - in their primes.

Its quite odd though with Barrera/Morales/Pacquiao because I think the circumstance when two of the three have met when both were at their prime was Barrera vs Morales 1.... Barrera has always looked faster than Morales when they square off, Pacquiao looked a lot faster than Barrera when they faced off, but then in fight 1 Morales looked faster than Pacqiaou when they met... Quite odd really.

I used to agree with the received wisdom that a peak Hamed was the best around, but after having watched some of his fights recently, it's clear that he never developed correct technique, and it's very doubtful he could have overcome someone as tough and technically correct as a peak Morales or Barrera, guys who could fight up close or at range and were mean hombres when they got their foe in trouble. Hamed was past his peak against Barrera, but I don't think it would have made that much difference.

The reason Morales probably looked quicker than Pacman in fight 1, is that he was able to hit Manny at range and keep him on the outside. In the 2nd fight, Manny jabbed well and worked his way into range behind a good straight left and right, followed by the hook. Once inside, his handspeed became a factor, on the outside, he could only throw big looping shots in the 1st fight.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 08 May 2006, 09:41

I think Pac's swarming attacks would be made for Hamed's counter punching though.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 08 May 2006, 09:50

Not if he is getting twatted senseless it wouldn't. Pacman is a bit like Tyson in his heyday, combining unnerving power with incredible handspeed. He made Barrera look like a statue in there, and broke Morales down with a very solid game plan. People forget that the 1st fight with Morales was also close.

Hamed relied on a lot of launching attacks, and was often very flat footed, which would suit Pacman.

It would have made for an exciting fight, but I can well see Hamed getting battered senseless.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 08 May 2006, 09:57

He wouldn't be getting twatted senseless though if Hamed countered him as he came in though. He's power crazy like Hamed too.

lvlarc · Post by **lvlarc** » 08 May 2006, 09:57

Pacquiao way too strong for Hamed, I can see him walking through Naz's shots untill he lands the straight left.

No shame in losing to one of the best superfeather weights of all time (IMO) though.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 08 May 2006, 09:59

Max Molyneux wrote:He wouldn't be getting twatted senseless though if Hamed countered him as he came in though. He's power crazy like Hamed too.

But quicker and more mobile. I bet if he fights Barrera again he annihilates him.

Cannibal · Post by **Cannibal** » 08 May 2006, 10:52

How many times would Pac put Hamed on his ass with that power combined with Naseem's off balance style? The fight would make Hamed/Kelley look like child's play when it comes to knockdowns.

Lenny · Post by **Lenny** » 08 May 2006, 11:01

Pacquiao way too strong for Hamed, I can see him walking through Naz's shots untill he lands the straight left

I'd make Pac the favorite with his better boxing ability but no way does any feather walk through Naz's shots. Can see Naz catching Manny on the way in and putting him down and I can see Manny keeping Naz off balance all night with his power and output

lvlarc · Post by **lvlarc** » 08 May 2006, 11:08

How high do you rank Pacman?

You think he's top 5 material? Right up there with Sanchez, Nelson, Pep, Saddler, Gomez, PBF, Morales, Barrera.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 08 May 2006, 11:15

I wouldnt put Pac up there with Sanchez yet.... but I'd pick him over a prime Hamed... naz had too many flaws in his technique to really take that last step to greatness... I also think that he had a less than great chin... Pac would be too strong and too fast and would probably ko Hamed in about 7 rounds...

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 08 May 2006, 11:16

Pacman is good enough to give any of the guys on that list a terrific fight. Christ, how many other fights do you think could crush Morales like that, or Barrera, or floor Marquez 3 times?

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 08 May 2006, 11:20

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
Max Molyneux wrote:He wouldn't be getting twatted senseless though if Hamed countered him as he came in though. He's power crazy like Hamed too.
But quicker and more mobile. I bet if he fights Barrera again he annihilates him.

You need more than that though.

I remember people here saying how one dimensional Pac was too.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 08 May 2006, 11:25

Naseem never beat anyone as good or as dangerous as a prime Pacman. There's no disputing that. Most of his opponents couldn't match him for power, Pacman could, and that's why I think it would have been a bad fight. Pacman has traded blows with killers in Morales and Barrera and come out on top. Even losing to Morales, he stood his ground and took his lumps.

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 08 May 2006, 11:30

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Not if he is getting twatted senseless it wouldn't. Pacman is a bit like Tyson in his heyday, combining unnerving power with incredible handspeed. He made Barrera look like a statue in there, and broke Morales down with a very solid game plan. People forget that the 1st fight with Morales was also close.

Hamed relied on a lot of launching attacks, and was often very flat footed, which would suit Pacman.

It would have made for an exciting fight, but I can well see Hamed getting battered senseless.

Hamed was a defensive genious in his prime and wouldn't have had too much problems avoiding 1-2s, Hamed had more problems with counter left hooks than straight problems. barrera outboxed Hamed he didn't even try to make it a war - he knew better, Pac would make it a war and his style would suit Hamed. Pacs easy to land on and Hameds power is something else. Pac also doesn't like angles and Hamed brings angular movements and attacks from all directions. Hamed would have the better boxing skills, better power, better movement, whilePacman has the better armspeed and pressure.

Hamed by KO each fighter down on multiple occasions. Fight of the decade!

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 08 May 2006, 11:33

lvlarc_uk wrote:How high do you rank Pacman?

You think he's top 5 material? Right up there with Sanchez, Nelson, Pep, Saddler, Gomez, PBF, Morales, Barrera.

URM no, hes lost to Morales and Marquez and beat Morales and Barrera. Very good but not great at 130. I think if Morales gets back to his old self he wins a UD and Marquez wins a lopsided decision if they fight again.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 08 May 2006, 11:40

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:
jamesmcdonnell wrote:Not if he is getting twatted senseless it wouldn't. Pacman is a bit like Tyson in his heyday, combining unnerving power with incredible handspeed. He made Barrera look like a statue in there, and broke Morales down with a very solid game plan. People forget that the 1st fight with Morales was also close.

Hamed relied on a lot of launching attacks, and was often very flat footed, which would suit Pacman.

It would have made for an exciting fight, but I can well see Hamed getting battered senseless.
Hamed was a defensive genious in his prime and wouldn't have had too much problems avoiding 1-2s, Hamed had more problems with counter left hooks than straight problems. barrera outboxed Hamed he didn't even try to make it a war - he knew better, Pac would make it a war and his style would suit Hamed. Pacs easy to land on and Hameds power is something else. Pac also doesn't like angles and Hamed brings angular movements and attacks from all directions. Hamed would have the better boxing skills, better power, better movement, whilePacman has the better armspeed and pressure.

Hamed by KO each fighter down on multiple occasions. Fight of the decade!

Hamed looked good against the lowertier world class fighters but when he stepped up in class he started being caught and against someone like Pac who'd be pressing and throwing punches non-stop I think Hamed would have a pretty rough ride.
To be honest even a prime Kevin Kelly would probably have stopped Hamed...

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 08 May 2006, 11:48

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:
jamesmcdonnell wrote:Not if he is getting twatted senseless it wouldn't. Pacman is a bit like Tyson in his heyday, combining unnerving power with incredible handspeed. He made Barrera look like a statue in there, and broke Morales down with a very solid game plan. People forget that the 1st fight with Morales was also close.

Hamed relied on a lot of launching attacks, and was often very flat footed, which would suit Pacman.

It would have made for an exciting fight, but I can well see Hamed getting battered senseless.
Hamed was a defensive genious in his prime and wouldn't have had too much problems avoiding 1-2s, Hamed had more problems with counter left hooks than straight problems. barrera outboxed Hamed he didn't even try to make it a war - he knew better, Pac would make it a war and his style would suit Hamed. Pacs easy to land on and Hameds power is something else. Pac also doesn't like angles and Hamed brings angular movements and attacks from all directions. Hamed would have the better boxing skills, better power, better movement, whilePacman has the better armspeed and pressure.

Hamed by KO each fighter down on multiple occasions. Fight of the decade!

Pacman is one of the best left hook punchers in the business, he's not a straight puncher by nature at all, watch his fight with Barrera and how many times he nails him with the left hook. Pacman was forced to add straight punches to his repetoire for the Morales rematch, as Morales had been nailing him from range with the long right hand and jab. On the inside he absolutely mauled Morales with terrific body punching and crisp short shots.

Hamed wasn't a defensive genius at any stage of his career, he got away with his technically flawed style against lesser punchers and lesser fighters than the likes of Pacman, Barrera and Morales.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 08 May 2006, 11:50

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:
lvlarc_uk wrote:How high do you rank Pacman?

You think he's top 5 material? Right up there with Sanchez, Nelson, Pep, Saddler, Gomez, PBF, Morales, Barrera.
URM no, hes lost to Morales and Marquez and beat Morales and Barrera. Very good but not great at 130. I think if Morales gets back to his old self he wins a UD and Marquez wins a lopsided decision if they fight again.

Technically he DREW with Marquez. I had it for Marquez by 2 rounds I think.

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 08 May 2006, 11:54

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:
lvlarc_uk wrote:How high do you rank Pacman?

You think he's top 5 material? Right up there with Sanchez, Nelson, Pep, Saddler, Gomez, PBF, Morales, Barrera.
URM no, hes lost to Morales and Marquez and beat Morales and Barrera. Very good but not great at 130. I think if Morales gets back to his old self he wins a UD and Marquez wins a lopsided decision if they fight again.
Technically he DREW with Marquez. I had it for Marquez by 2 rounds I think.

Technically Chavez drew with Whitaker but he didn't. I had it to Marquez, if it happened a few months down the line I'd go with Marquez UD.

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 08 May 2006, 11:57

silkov wrote:
Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:
jamesmcdonnell wrote:Not if he is getting twatted senseless it wouldn't. Pacman is a bit like Tyson in his heyday, combining unnerving power with incredible handspeed. He made Barrera look like a statue in there, and broke Morales down with a very solid game plan. People forget that the 1st fight with Morales was also close.

Hamed relied on a lot of launching attacks, and was often very flat footed, which would suit Pacman.

It would have made for an exciting fight, but I can well see Hamed getting battered senseless.
Hamed was a defensive genious in his prime and wouldn't have had too much problems avoiding 1-2s, Hamed had more problems with counter left hooks than straight problems. barrera outboxed Hamed he didn't even try to make it a war - he knew better, Pac would make it a war and his style would suit Hamed. Pacs easy to land on and Hameds power is something else. Pac also doesn't like angles and Hamed brings angular movements and attacks from all directions. Hamed would have the better boxing skills, better power, better movement, whilePacman has the better armspeed and pressure.

Hamed by KO each fighter down on multiple occasions. Fight of the decade!
Hamed looked good against the lowertier world class fighters but when he stepped up in class he started being caught and against someone like Pac who'd be pressing and throwing punches non-stop I think Hamed would have a pretty rough ride.
To be honest even a prime Kevin Kelly would probably have stopped Hamed...

Thats bollox - Prime Kevin Kelly - he was near prime and got brutally ko'd on Hameds worse night. Bungu achieved more at 122 than Morales and Barrera and was A Class. Hameds opponents are top class and better than given credit for by convential wisdom. If Hamed was American and none-Arab and well mannered he'd be an ATG and thats what it boils down too with boxing critics.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 08 May 2006, 12:00

If Pac fights Marquez again he'll probably stop him next time...