TBRB Top 10 Super middleweight

[Ruthless-RKO]

1 Callum Smith 25-0-0 (18)
2 Gilberto Ramirez 38-0-0 (25)
3 Anthony Dirrell 32-1-1 (24)
4 George Groves 28-4-0 (20)
5 Chris Eubank Jr. 27-2-0 (21)
6 David Benavidez 19-0-0 (17)
7 Jose Uzcategui 28-2-0 (23)
8 James DeGale 24-2-1 (14)
9 Rocky Fielding 27-1-0 (15)
10 Avni Yildirim 21-1-0 (12)
--------------------------------
Smith is obviously ranked #1 with The Ring as well, as their champion.

A big well done to Smith. TBH, from all the boxers on the list, Smith has the best win. He might not be the best SMW, as there is an argument with Zurdo.

Some say it's a weak division, but the names above aren't bad. I think it's just how the boxers are matched, which is poor. No idea what Anthony Dirrell has done to be #3.

Let's see how many have fought each other.

Smith vs. Groves (2018)
Smith vs. Fielding (2015)
* Smith only ranked after this bout

Groves vs. Eubank Jr, (2018)
Groves vs. Murray (2016)
*Murray was ranked #10
Groves vs. DeGale (2011)
* Neither ranked at the time

Ramirez vs. Abraham (2016)
* Abraham ranked #1 at the time.

DeGale vs. Jack (2017)
*DeGale was #1 and Jack was #2
DeGale vs. Truax II (2018)
*Truax ranked #5. Was only ranked due to his shock win over DeGale in 2017

Eubank Jr. vs. Abraham (2017)
* Abraham was ranked #6 at the time
--------------------------------

All in all, from the current top 10..

It's only:
Smith vs. Groves (2018)
Smith vs. Fielding (2015)
Groves vs. Eubank Jr, (2018)
Groves vs. DeGale (2011)

Piss poor, considering 2 of the fights were over 3 years ago.

[Enlightened-One]

Avni Yildirim isn't a world-class fighter or at least he hasn't demonstrated anything inside the ring to prove that he is one.

The ommission of Caleb Truax seems odd to me considering the competitive nature of his bouts against James DeGale, coupled with all of his losses coming against top-tier opposition.

Chris Eubank Jr. and Anthony Dirrell's ratings' are too high.

I am aslo confused about the reason why the TBRB, The RING and ESPN rate Gilberto Ramirez as one of the top dogs of the 168lbs division, but his resume, fighting style and amateur pedigree doesn’t seem to warrant his possession of such a prestigious status.

Why are people granting Zurdo an honorary rite of passage to being considered as one of the very best fighters competing as a super-middleweight when his peers have better resumes and deliver more impressive performances than he does?

[Ruthless-RKO]

I am aslo confused about the reason why the TBRB, The RING and ESPN rate Gilberto Ramirez as one of the top dogs of the 168lbs division, but his resume, fighting style and amateur pedigree doesn’t seem to warrant his possession of such a prestigious status.

Why are people granting Zurdo an honorary rite of passage to being considered as one of the very best fighters competing as a super-middleweight when his peers have better resumes and deliver more impressive performances than he does?

This baffles me too. He has done nothing since beating Abraham. His fight vs. Hart was decent. Hart wasn't top 10 ranked, he actually did enter the top 10 after his loss, he fought a good fight. Abraham has fought Habib Ahmed and Roamer Angulo since that fight.

As I said, Smith arguably has the best win of all the bunch. Obviusly, if Groves defeated Smith, he'd still be ranked top dog..

Can you do a quick breakdown of the likeness of any of these top guys fighting each other based on management and promotion.

It seems these fights are hard to make, or non of the guys want to test themselves.

[Mexi-Box]

I am aslo confused about the reason why the TBRB, The RING and ESPN rate Gilberto Ramirez as one of the top dogs of the 168lbs division, but his resume, fighting style and amateur pedigree doesn’t seem to warrant his possession of such a prestigious status.

Why are people granting Zurdo an honorary rite of passage to being considered as one of the very best fighters competing as a super-middleweight when his peers have better resumes and deliver more impressive performances than he does?

Who has a better resume than Zurdo? Break down someone who has a better resume. Give me facts, not feelings.

[Ruthless-RKO]

I am aslo confused about the reason why the TBRB, The RING and ESPN rate Gilberto Ramirez as one of the top dogs of the 168lbs division, but his resume, fighting style and amateur pedigree doesn’t seem to warrant his possession of such a prestigious status.

Why are people granting Zurdo an honorary rite of passage to being considered as one of the very best fighters competing as a super-middleweight when his peers have better resumes and deliver more impressive performances than he does?

Who has a better resume than Zurdo? Break down someone who has a better resume. Give me facts, not feelings.

You could easily argue now, Groves, Smith, even DeGale has better overall wins, don't matter how he win, even if he just about won. Had Eubank beaten Groves, I would have ranked Eubank higher than Zurdo too.

[Mexi-Box]

I am aslo confused about the reason why the TBRB, The RING and ESPN rate Gilberto Ramirez as one of the top dogs of the 168lbs division, but his resume, fighting style and amateur pedigree doesn’t seem to warrant his possession of such a prestigious status.

Why are people granting Zurdo an honorary rite of passage to being considered as one of the very best fighters competing as a super-middleweight when his peers have better resumes and deliver more impressive performances than he does?

Who has a better resume than Zurdo? Break down someone who has a better resume. Give me facts, not feelings.

You could easily argue now, Groves, Smith, even DeGale has better overall wins, don't matter how he win, even if he just about won. Had Eubank beaten Groves, I would have ranked Eubank higher than Zurdo too.

DeGale is not arguable at all. Loses still count against you, as well as going razor close with Truax twice. Zurdo has yet to lose to a guy on Truax's level. And if you're not insane, you'd agree that Zurdo destroys DeGale right now. Honestly, I think even the one that struggled immensely with Porky Medina would take a loss to Zurdo if they fought around that time.

Groves has recently looked really bad against Smith. He's injured, old, and severely past his prime. This is still post-Cobra Groves. I actually had Smith KO'ing Groves as my prediction because he was coming off injury and post-Cobra'd.

Eubank Jr. didn't beat Groves. I mean beating Groves would be one of the best wins in the division. Of course, anyone who beat the streaking Groves at the time would've rated #1. How Eubank Jr. lost is really devastating to his ranking.

The only one that you made a valid claim with is Smith, so yeah, Ramirez is the #2 in the world. Also, I don't think anyone should be named champion in the division without having faced Ramirez.

[Ruthless-RKO]

Who has a better resume than Zurdo? Break down someone who has a better resume. Give me facts, not feelings.

You could easily argue now, Groves, Smith, even DeGale has better overall wins, don't matter how he win, even if he just about won. Had Eubank beaten Groves, I would have ranked Eubank higher than Zurdo too.

DeGale is not arguable at all. Loses still count against you, as well as going razor close with Truax twice. Zurdo has yet to lose to a guy on Truax's level. And if you're not insane, you'd agree that Zurdo destroys DeGale right now. Honestly, I think even the one that struggled immensely with Porky Medina would take a loss to Zurdo if they fought around that time.

Groves has recently looked really bad against Smith. He's injured, old, and severely past his prime. This is still post-Cobra Groves. I actually had Smith KO'ing Groves as my prediction because he was coming off injury and post-Cobra'd.

Eubank Jr. didn't beat Groves. I mean beating Groves would be one of the best wins in the division. Of course, anyone who beat the streaking Groves at the time would've rated #1. How Eubank Jr. lost is really devastating to his ranking.

The only one that you made a valid claim with is Smith, so yeah, Ramirez is the #2 in the world. Also, I don't think anyone should be named champion in the division without having faced Ramirez.

You just changed your own question.

You asked who had a better resume. I know a loss is a loss, but DeGale does have a better resume. I do think Zurdo beats DeGale today, no question about it. Zurdo hasn't lost to anyone yet, you are correct, but your question was who has a better resume and if you're not insane, you'll say DeGale.

DeGale has beaten or drawn against Andre Dirrell, Bute, Jack. Result is a result
Zurdo has beaten Abraham. You can Jessie Hart but Hart wasn't ranked by TBRB, The Ring or ESPN at the time. So he wasn't the most credible opponent.

Just because Groves lost, doesn't mean he's past, over the hill etc. He was still in the Smith fight until the end. He's still top 3 and would still give anyone a good scrap.

[adislav123]

Avni Yildirim in reality lost his last international title fight against 46 (doesn't mean shit in his case, he's top-fit) year old lolenga mock (watch the fight) but his promotion (ahmet öner, the guy who rang the bell mid-round in the williams vs. Airich disgrace) made sure he got the decision from the corrupt judges. Please also watch the post fight presser if you want to see how embarassingly obvious they handle their shady shit. With german/turkish tv-money they try to push him now into a title-shot against benavidez... who would make quick work of him. Yildirim is a flatfooted slugger with average power, who would still have time to develop but i'm sorry to say his (ring-)IQ is far below even average. He's naturally a bit thick, will be outsmarted by any fighter who packs a decent punch & knows what a sidestep is. Maybe nr. 1 in turkey, not even top 30 worldwide.

Artur Abraham (who got the decision against Nielsen, but decisively lost the fight, without winning one round) is in the deep winter of his career, so that all he does in the ring is walk up to his foe, freeze, cover up, get whacked on his guard, take a step back, shake out his bludgeoned arms and after repeating this procedure maybe throw one hand that most probably misses, repeat.

Sauerland despite the hopelessness of the task will "promote" ancient Abraham yet into another televised title-shot, most probably again against Zurdo Ramirez, whom they will pay good to lure him into germany and try to fornicate over with every shitty trick they got up their sleeve. To no avail i hope, but (if by robbery or wrongful dq, even that wouldn't surprise) imagine yildirim & abraham holding two of the major belts, they wold extort it for... but yet again: who doesn't nowadays?

[Mexi-Box]

You could easily argue now, Groves, Smith, even DeGale has better overall wins, don't matter how he win, even if he just about won. Had Eubank beaten Groves, I would have ranked Eubank higher than Zurdo too.

DeGale is not arguable at all. Loses still count against you, as well as going razor close with Truax twice. Zurdo has yet to lose to a guy on Truax's level. And if you're not insane, you'd agree that Zurdo destroys DeGale right now. Honestly, I think even the one that struggled immensely with Porky Medina would take a loss to Zurdo if they fought around that time.

Groves has recently looked really bad against Smith. He's injured, old, and severely past his prime. This is still post-Cobra Groves. I actually had Smith KO'ing Groves as my prediction because he was coming off injury and post-Cobra'd.

Eubank Jr. didn't beat Groves. I mean beating Groves would be one of the best wins in the division. Of course, anyone who beat the streaking Groves at the time would've rated #1. How Eubank Jr. lost is really devastating to his ranking.

The only one that you made a valid claim with is Smith, so yeah, Ramirez is the #2 in the world. Also, I don't think anyone should be named champion in the division without having faced Ramirez.

You just changed your own question.

You asked who had a better resume. I know a loss is a loss, but DeGale does have a better resume. I do think Zurdo beats DeGale today, no question about it. Zurdo hasn't lost to anyone yet, you are correct, but your question was who has a better resume and if you're not insane, you'll say DeGale.

DeGale has beaten or drawn against Andre Dirrell, Bute, Jack. Result is a result
Zurdo has beaten Abraham. You can Jessie Hart but Hart wasn't ranked by TBRB, The Ring or ESPN at the time. So he wasn't the most credible opponent.

Just because Groves lost, doesn't mean he's past, over the hill etc. He was still in the Smith fight until the end. He's still top 3 and would still give anyone a good scrap.

Resume includes losses! WTF!? Who in the world doesn't count losses in resume!? You're arguing from a completely inept point of view. I honestly can't believe you just said that.

By the way, rankings mean garbage unless you don't watch fighters and only go by BoxRec rankings. Hart was a good, very credible win. The win also grew as Hart is still undefeated. Maybe only looking at rankings instead of watching fighters you'd come to that opinion.

Groves is over the hill. Anyone who followed his career knows that. Groves benefited from the fact that the SMW division has been one of the worst divisions in boxing since Froch, Kessler, and Ward retired. This is still post-Cobra'd Groves.

[Ruthless-RKO]

DeGale is not arguable at all. Loses still count against you, as well as going razor close with Truax twice. Zurdo has yet to lose to a guy on Truax's level. And if you're not insane, you'd agree that Zurdo destroys DeGale right now. Honestly, I think even the one that struggled immensely with Porky Medina would take a loss to Zurdo if they fought around that time.

Groves has recently looked really bad against Smith. He's injured, old, and severely past his prime. This is still post-Cobra Groves. I actually had Smith KO'ing Groves as my prediction because he was coming off injury and post-Cobra'd.

Eubank Jr. didn't beat Groves. I mean beating Groves would be one of the best wins in the division. Of course, anyone who beat the streaking Groves at the time would've rated #1. How Eubank Jr. lost is really devastating to his ranking.

The only one that you made a valid claim with is Smith, so yeah, Ramirez is the #2 in the world. Also, I don't think anyone should be named champion in the division without having faced Ramirez.

You just changed your own question.

You asked who had a better resume. I know a loss is a loss, but DeGale does have a better resume. I do think Zurdo beats DeGale today, no question about it. Zurdo hasn't lost to anyone yet, you are correct, but your question was who has a better resume and if you're not insane, you'll say DeGale.

DeGale has beaten or drawn against Andre Dirrell, Bute, Jack. Result is a result
Zurdo has beaten Abraham. You can Jessie Hart but Hart wasn't ranked by TBRB, The Ring or ESPN at the time. So he wasn't the most credible opponent.

Just because Groves lost, doesn't mean he's past, over the hill etc. He was still in the Smith fight until the end. He's still top 3 and would still give anyone a good scrap.

Resume includes losses! WTF!? Who in the world doesn't count losses in resume!? You're arguing from a completely inept point of view. I honestly can't believe you just said that.

By the way, rankings mean garbage unless you don't watch fighters and only go by BoxRec rankings. Hart was a good, very credible win. The win also grew as Hart is still undefeated. Maybe only looking at rankings instead of watching fighters you'd come to that opinion.

Groves is over the hill. Anyone who followed his career knows that. Groves benefited from the fact that the SMW division has been one of the worst divisions in boxing since Froch, Kessler, and Ward retired. This is still post-Cobra'd Groves.

I agree Hart was good win. I just stated he wasn’t ranked. He came away from that fight as a credible opponent. I watched that fight. It was a good fight. Resume obviously includes losses. I was just comparing wins.

[jamamb]

lol groves was at his career high vs callum

guy was 25/26 when he fought froch and wasnt finished at all just because of those losses

zurdos been fghtng some real trash lately and every real fan wants to see the guy step it up. some of these guys such as angulo and that afrcan were just utter trash and super small too. no need for them or max bursa

[Ruthless-RKO]

lol groves was at his career high vs callum

guy was 25/26 when he fought froch and wasnt finished at all just because of those losses

zurdos been fghtng some real trash lately and every real fan wants to see the guy step it up. some of these guys such as angulo and that afrcan were just utter trash and super small too. no need for them or max bursa

Like I said. Thanks. Since Abraham, his only real fight was Hart. He’s fought 2 nobodies since.

[KiwiRider]

lol groves was at his career high vs callum

guy was 25/26 when he fought froch and wasnt finished at all just because of those losses

zurdos been fghtng some real trash lately and every real fan wants to see the guy step it up. some of these guys such as angulo and that afrcan were just utter trash and super small too. no need for them or max bursa

X2
Groves was in that fight with Smith right up until he was caught.
As for Zurdo, his best win was old Abraham, and maybe Hart- but I reserve judgement on the Hart win until Jessie fights another top #10 SMW because I'm still not sure where he is at- prior to the Zurdo fight he was unbeaten, but against who is the question in my mind.

[jamamb]

hart seems to get most his credit from the zurdo fight itself, mike gavronski is seriously in the running for his best win, and he also had hell vs dashon johnson

top rank should also stop matching him vs so many poor opponents, they have only matched him tough for 1 in house fight . ...where the risk is minimized for them since they have the winner too

they are heavy on that model for many of there fighters, and it means a lot of total crap if they cant keep it in house

[Mexi-Box]

lol groves was at his career high vs callum

guy was 25/26 when he fought froch and wasnt finished at all just because of those losses

zurdos been fghtng some real trash lately and every real fan wants to see the guy step it up. some of these guys such as angulo and that afrcan were just utter trash and super small too. no need for them or max bursa

Groves is not the same fighter as the one before the Froch losses. Division is extremely weak. Groves would be nowhere near #1 if it was the same division that included Ward, Froch, and Kessler. He's been blessed that the division has been bad.

[jamamb]

i dont agree at all, i dont think hes looked any worse. hes added some good experience too. he totally battered a murray whod fought super close with abraham (zurdos big win) btw. to me smith knocking him out is the biggest smw win in a while

and just to clarify what i said about zurdo...he actually does have solid wins, not gonna deny that,...but just seems now that hes established and a champ hes been taken backwards, down the lowest risk route. his 1 decent defense was a mandatory....guys like angulo, bursak, and that african were terrible

i dont like the path hes been on lately..

[adislav123]

Avni Yildirim in reality lost his last fight against 46 (doesn't mean shit in his case, he's fit as can be and tough as nails) year old lolenga mock (watch the fight) but his promotion (ahmet öner, the guy who rang the bell mid-round in the williams vs. Airich disgrace) made sure he got the decision from the corrupt judges. Please also watch the post fight presser if you want a laugh). He's a flatfooted slugger with average power who got knocked out clean by eubanks jr. and is now fighting for the title after 2 lost fights. They will fornicate dirrell over so bad, he won't believe what's happening to him. Will be something to behold for the corruption connoisseurs, ridiculous shitt

[jamamb]

is it just me or did the benavidez hype lose some steam?

omg hes gonna ko everyone even though he couldnt do it in 2 tries vs ronny gavril !!!

too bad the talked about fight vs anthony dirrell didnt happen, that wouldve actually been good. oh well, maybe he can have a 3rd gavril fight

[Ruthless-RKO]

is it just me or did the benavidez hype lose some steam?

omg hes gonna ko everyone even though he couldnt do it in 2 tries vs ronny gavril !!!

Yeh.. He is still only young. I think he'll cross paths with Munguia in the future.

[Enlightened-One]

This baffles me too. He has done nothing since beating Abraham. His fight vs. Hart was decent. Hart wasn't top 10 ranked, he actually did enter the top 10 after his loss...

ESPN are reporting that there's a good chance we'll see a rematch between Gilberto Ramirez and Jesse Hart on the 14th December.

As far as I’m aware, Jesse Hart hasn’t beaten any notable opponent to-date.

It’s sad to say, but it seems that Gilberto Ramirez is becoming increasingly irrelevant in boxing’s super-middleweight landscape.

[Ruthless-RKO]

This baffles me too. He has done nothing since beating Abraham. His fight vs. Hart was decent. Hart wasn't top 10 ranked, he actually did enter the top 10 after his loss...

ESPN are reporting that there's a good chance we'll see a rematch between Gilberto Ramirez and Jesse Hart on the 14th December.

As far as I’m aware, Jesse Hart hasn’t beaten any notable opponent to-date.

It’s sad to say, but it seems that Gilberto Ramirez is becoming increasingly irrelevant in boxing’s super-middleweight landscape.

Has he ran out of opponents. Arum is a good promoter, but he needs to engage more with making big fights. Like he did with GBP when Loma fought Linares. He can't always win promotional rights to every fight.

[Enlightened-One]

Can you do a quick breakdown of the likeness of any of these top guys fighting each other based on management and promotion.

It seems these fights are hard to make, or non of the guys want to test themselves.

I haven’t spent a lot of time on this, but here’s what I’ve discovered:

• Callum Smith (Matchroom)
• Gilberto Ramirez (Top Rank)
• George Groves (Sauerland - partners with Matchroom)
• Jose Uzcategui (Al Haymon)
• James DeGale (Al Haymon)
• Anthony Dirrell (Al Haymon)
• Caleb Truax (Al Haymon)
• David Benavidez (Al Haymon)
• Chris Eubank Jr. (Self-promoted)
• Rocky Fielding (Matchroom)
• Jesse Hart (Top Rank)
• Avni Yildirim (Ahmet Öner)

Notes:
• David Benavidez is listed as a PBC fighter, but he recently tried and failed to sign a deal with Top Rank, due to validity of his contract with Sampson Boxing. I doubt that Haymon will block him from working with Top Rank in the future.

• It’s rumoured that Al Haymon is only Jose Uzcategui’s advisor, since the Venezuelan isn’t listed as a PBC fighter, which means he may be free to fight on multiple TV networks. The Venezuelan has competed on numerous PBC fight cards.

• Even though the likes of Callum Smith, Rocky Fielding and George Groves are more likely to compete on DAZN shows, I haven’t seen any evidence yet of Eddie Hearn showing any reluctance to work with promoters affiliated with other networks.

• I regard Chris Eubank Jr. and Avni Yildirim as TV network free agents, since they don’t have deals with any of the major promoters that are tied to specific broadcasters.

I’d say it’ll be tough to arrange bouts between Gilberto Ramirez and the vast majority of the PBC guys, since Bob Arum refuses to pay the exorbitant purses that Haymon’s fighters usually receive.

Matchroom may choose to work with Showtime/Fox (PBC) and ESPN (Top Rank), but we don’t know for certain yet, since that TV network has only just been created.

I feel that when Gilberto Ramirez inevitably disposes of Jesse Hart in their rematch, Bob Arum will have to make one of two choices: either spend serious cash in order to allow his WBO champ face his big-name rivals; or instead maintain the status quo, by allowing the Mexican to continually engage in meaningless title defences against borderline fringe contenders.