What was the first ever pro boxing match?

[pugilisticspecialist]

What's the earliest bout in BoxRec's database?

[computerrank]

What's the earliest bout in BoxRec's database?

http://boxrec.com/en/event/268169

[Senya13]

Morrissey-Poole was a no-rules rough-and-tumble fight, or rather an assault, multiple people kicking Morrissey lying on the ground, it cannot even be considered a prize fight, much less a MoQ bout. Poole was fatally injured on Feb 24, 1855, he died 2 weeks later, on March 8.

[wouter]

Morrissey-Poole was a no-rules rough-and-tumble fight, or rather an assault, multiple people kicking Morrissey lying on the ground, it cannot even be considered a prize fight, much less a MoQ bout. Poole was fatally injured on Feb 24, 1855, he died 2 weeks later, on March 8.

That's correct. It's gone.

[computerrank]

So now the first BoxRec record is:

http://boxrec.com/en/event/62828

[Senya13]

1858-10-30 New York Clipper (page 222)
ARTICLES OF AGREEMENT.
ENTERED INTO THIS 19TH DAY OF JULY, 1858, BETWEEN JOHN MORRISSEY AND JOHN C. HEENAN.
The said John Morrissey agrees to fight the said John C. Heenan a fair stand-up fight, according to the New Rules of the London Prize Ring...

[claudevsq]

I can't see the show, must have been deleted...

[wouter]

I can't see the show, must have been deleted...

Yes, it was. I think a lot of the earliest bouts in the database were fought under London Prize Ring rules and therefore have no place here..

[computerrank]

So the first recorded BoxRec bout now is from Friday 1, June 1866:

http://boxrec.com/en/event/43945

[Senya13]

No idea about that one. NY Clipper thought Marcellus Baker's debut was in July 1867. Peter Daly fought George Siddons on May 12, 1866 (Daly won in 65 rounds, lasting 1h 53m).

[claudevsq]

How can 65 rounds last less than 2 hours?

[wouter]

How can 65 rounds last less than 2 hours?

Under London Prize Ring rules, a round ended whenever a fighter was punched or thrown to the floor.

[computerrank]

How can 65 rounds last less than 2 hours?

Under London Prize Ring rules, a round ended whenever a fighter was punched or thrown to the floor.

So this bout under London Prize Ring rules should go too ??? BoxRec only records Queensbury rules pro bouts, or?

[Mighty Atom]

So the first recorded BoxRec bout now is from Friday 1, June 1866:

http://boxrec.com/en/event/43945

Sorry but that's got to go as well.
Queensberry Rules weren't published until the year after that.

[BitPlayer]

So the first recorded BoxRec bout now is from Friday 1, June 1866:

http://boxrec.com/en/event/43945

Sorry but that's got to go as well.
Queensberry Rules weren't published until the year after that.

Doesn't just have to be gloved?

[Mighty Atom]

So the first recorded BoxRec bout now is from Friday 1, June 1866:

http://boxrec.com/en/event/43945

Sorry but that's got to go as well.
Queensberry Rules weren't published until the year after that.

Doesn't just have to be gloved?

If that's right you can go back a lot further

[Senya13]

I think the first mention of MoQ rules being used in America, that I've seen in American newspapers, were dated late 1877. Of course, in England there should be earlier MoQ bouts, although I'm not sure when they started using them in professional fights (I believe they were first intended for amateur boxing).

[claudevsq]

After deleting all these Prize Ring rules bouts etc. or putting them in somewhere else, the first pro boxing bout will probably have happened like in late 1867 the earliest, maybe even 1868...

And no, gloved alone is not enough. I remember John saying that we only record MoQ bouts. (Of course, nowadays, we even record MMA and so on, but not under pro boxing.)

[Senya13]

After deleting all these Prize Ring rules bouts etc. or putting them in somewhere else, the first pro boxing bout will probably have happened like in late 1867 the earliest, maybe even 1868...

I think it'll be 1870s. There was an amateur tournament for "Marquis of Queensberry's Cups", started around 1870, the rules were written for this tournament, as far as I can tell.

1873-04-23 The Scotsman (page 8)
Lord Queensberry's "Professional Boxing Prize"--Disgraceful Scenes.--The competition for the Marquis of Queensberry's prize, open to light-weighted professionals, took place in the neighborhood of the "Seven Dials," on Monday evening, when several hundred lovers of the "noble art" assembled to witness the so-termed boxing match between Napper, the champion of the lightweights in pugilistic circles, and a much younger man, named Davis, hailing from the East End. The admission was £1 each. Napper was a strong favourite, 2 to 1 being freely laid upon him. Nearly an hout and a half was spent without any damage being done, or any apparent advantage being gained by either, when the combatants got into close quarters, and fought in the most terrific manner, hugging each other at the ropes, and dealing blows in the face and body to the utmost extent of their strength. The weak condition of Napper then began to show, and several times in succession he was hurled on to the hard boards, and shaken to an extent that soon told its tale. Finding there was no hope, some of the more determined of his backers infringed the rules of the ring, and rushed in to assist him from terra firma, when a scene almost unequalled in the annals of "boxing" occurred, the partisans of the other combatant at the same time rushing in to protect their man. Appeals were made in vain to the umpire to clear the space, and the fight continued with the enclosure half full of people, most of whom acted like excited maniacs, while those outside, by their protests and demonstrations for their respective champions, added to the general din. Napper was borne to his corner insensible, and the referee announced that Davis had won the battle. Up to this time the doors had been strictly barred, and neither ingrass nor egress could be obtained, but the moment the fight was concluded, the roughs, who had assembled in large numbers outside, rushed in. A terrible row ensued, during which the reporters were glad to make their escape. It is understood that besides the Marquis of Queensberry's trophy, the battle was for £100.


1873-04-25 Manchester Evening News (page 3)
THE PRIZE FIGHT IN LONDON.
--------
The Marquis of Queensberry writes:--It appears to me that I am to be made the scapegoat of the so-called prize fight in London. Allow me to make the following statement:--I have given no cup or prize whatever, with the exception of the challenge cups to the Amateur Athletic Club. I was neither present at nor did I know anything at all about the sparring match on Tuesday night at the Grafton Hall. Had I known of it, it is quite probable that I should have been present, as, thank God, I have no objection to see a good fight with gloves, or without them, for the matter of that. I have nothing to say for the blackguardism which appears to have predominated on Tuesday night. Unfortunately, this has always been one of the evils that has attended the encouragement of the still "noble art of self-defence." It appears to me to be doomed by public opinion; let it be so. Yet England may regret some day that her sons should substitute for the use of their fists the first deadly weapon that come to their hands.

[Mighty Atom]

According to some old reference books the first time the Queensberry rules were used for professionals was in a "tournament in London in 1872"

[computerrank]

According to some old reference books the first time the Queensberry rules were used for professionals was in a "tournament in London in 1872"

Would you please name the reference and quote a short excerpt.

[Mighty Atom]

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=0o1 ... es&f=false

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=FgC ... es&f=false

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=5fp ... kQ6AEIMjAC

[computerrank]

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=0o1 ... es&f=false

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=FgC ... es&f=false

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=5fp ... kQ6AEIMjAC

[pugilisticspecialist]

So what is now the earliest bout in the database?

[computerrank]

So what is now the earliest bout in the database?

The first bouts in the database were not under Queensbury rules. So, I guess, it will take some time to clarify this question.