Could this be film footage of Luther McCarty ?

[Caractacus]

I came across this clip from an(untitled) old silent movie when I was looking for something else.
IMOP It sure resembles him,particularly the pose he does at 0:18 of the clip.
What do you think ?

[HomicideHenry]

I don't think so.

The reason(s) why I don't believe that's him is because:

1) There is no mention of McCarty being involved in any films

2) The 'pose' you cite @ :18 of the video was rather common in that era

3) The sparring partner looked like a better fighter (lol)

4) I don't see much resemblance; he has the same hair style but doesn't have the wide face

5) McCarty himself was a large man for the time (6'4") so I'd of expected him to be the towering figure but instead he looks normal in size, especially against the larger sparring partner

6) The quality looks too good to be 1913 (the year of Luther's death), I'd suspect 1920's

[Caractacus]

Here is why I think ( possibly) it may be Lute McCarty..
( if the film was actually made in early 1913 that is which IMOP looks like it based on the cinematography and film stock)
although I'm not a film historian of course but it does look like film from the 1910's to me possibly)

1.)He was starting to get considerable attention nation-wide in late 1912.

2.)He had fought Al Palzer in a well publized fight in Vernon California on January.1.1913
( for the White HW Championship)
and Vernon California is located just a few miles South of Los Angeles (Hollywood)California
in which 11.000 attended and 3,000 more stood outside the arena just to be near the event.
No doubt a number of Hollywood people attended the fight just like they did years later when Joe Louis was making a name for himself and fought there(LA) in February 1935 against Lee Ramage) .
after that fight McCarty was offered a 2 week Vaudeville engagement at the Hammerstein Theater in NYC
( for 2,000 dollars a week which was Buko money in 1913)
but I do remember the photo in the older threat were he had taken a publicty photograph for his show buisness excursions.
also his Dad Chief White Eagle also did Vaudeville to capitize on his son's fame at the time.

[Caractacus]

Hey, I jUst found out the Luther McCarty did make a Hollywood movie !
He reportedly had a uncredited bit part (as a Cowboy) in at least one movie
THREE SUITORS AND A DOG ( released 7.February 1913) which was shown
at a theater at Joplin Missouri and probably Springfield Missouri too.
check out this article which mentions that and notice the photo in the upper right looks like
a film publicty photograph for a film ( he looks like he may have played a convict in that one)

https://www.bolivarmonews.com/neighbors ... 963f4.html

-

[prewarboxing]

I have studied an awful lot of old photographs and film and there is no way this film is from 1913. You only have to look at the clothes the ladies are wearing to see it is mid 1920s at the earliest. I would date it to circa 1927/1930.

Just my (strongly held) opinion!

Miles Templeton

[Caractacus]

well I seen a lot of old silent films too and it looks like it may (possibly)be from circa 1912-1913 to me.
some of the films from back then were just preserved better over time
then disiintergrating well -worn films that survived up until they could be preserved.
as far as the clothes the women are wearing to try and date the film-the Fashion trend had to start somewhere-and that would have been Hollywood and the rest of the country followed the fashion for many years afterwards
and anyway,the dude has the exact same hair-cut as Lute McCarty as seen in various photographs,
Explain that !

[prewarboxing]

I am afraid that I completely disagree with you. Ho-hum!

Good luck in trying to identify the boxers but you must start in the 1920s when this film was made. Not 1913.

Miles

[HomicideHenry]

Hey, I jUst found out the Luther McCarty did make a Hollywood movie !
He reportedly had a uncredited bit part (as a Cowboy) in at least one movie
THREE SUITORS AND A DOG ( released 7.February 1913) which was shown
at a theater at Joplin Missouri and probably Springfield Missouri too.
check out this article which mentions that and notice the photo in the upper right looks like
a film publicty photograph for a film ( he looks like he may have played a convict in that one)

https://www.bolivarmonews.com/neighbors ... 963f4.html

-

Well that's something cool never knew that.

However, I still stand firm BECAUSE.... compare Jack Dempsey's DAREDEVIL JACK serials to the film you are saying could be McCarty.... and the quality is not the same.... Now that could be because of film companies having higher or lesser standards (after all the East Coast used to have its own studios once upon a time) in those days.... But.... I gotta agree with Miles on this, because the clothing seems a bit different for the early 1910's, besides how "improper" it would be for women to be walking around a boxing gym with a bunch of sweaty men, etc.

[HomicideHenry]

ANNNNNND......

It just came to me that scene is from ALFRED HITCHCOCK's THE RING (1927)

I knew it looked familiar to that time period. I've seen the film before, I'm surprised I forgot about it.

[prewarboxing]

ANNNNNND......

It just came to me that scene is from ALFRED HITCHCOCK's THE RING (1927)

I knew it looked familiar to that time period. I've seen the film before, I'm surprised I forgot about it.

So it is circa 1927/30 then. I was quite sure about this. It's obvious from the clothing.

Miles.

[Caractacus]

ANNNNNND......

It just came to me that scene is from ALFRED HITCHCOCK's THE RING (1927)

I knew it looked familiar to that time period. I've seen the film before, I'm surprised I forgot about it.

Man.maybe he got resurected and visited the beach with Harry Greb at Blackpool there in England ?

[Caractacus]

I came across this clip from an(untitled) old silent movie when I was looking for something else.
IMOP It sure resembles him,particularly the pose he does at 0:18 of the clip.
What do you think ?

Okay just looked it up.You were correct.
That person was actually Carl Brisson who was born in Denmark and was 33 yrs old in 1927.
who (according to IMDB) was a former professional boxer and stood 6 ft 1" tall.
( but I can't seem to find his record on boxrec unless he fought under an alais)
also in that film was famous boxing referee Eugene Corri and Bombardier Billy Wells.

[HomicideHenry]

Carl Brisson (24 December 1893 – 25 September 1958), born Carl Frederik Ejnar Pedersen. According to WIkipedia he boxed periodically between 1912 and 1915. However I see no "Carl Pendersen" on BoxRec, let alone Carl Brisson. It could very well be he was a boxer--- but--- its most likely he was an amateur or semi-pro or even a carnival boxer whose records never were written down.

Or it could be like one of my favorite singers "Lefty" Frizzell, where people claimed he was a former Golden Gloves champion before becoming a singer--- only to find out the name "Lefty" was because he was left-handed and because of a schoolyard fight he had in his youth and his friends called him "Lefty" from that time on.

[wouter]

Carl Brisson (24 December 1893 – 25 September 1958), born Carl Frederik Ejnar Pedersen. According to WIkipedia he boxed periodically between 1912 and 1915. However I see no "Carl Pendersen" on BoxRec, let alone Carl Brisson. It could very well be he was a boxer--- but--- its most likely he was an amateur or semi-pro or even a carnival boxer whose records never were written down.

Or it could be like one of my favorite singers "Lefty" Frizzell, where people claimed he was a former Golden Gloves champion before becoming a singer--- only to find out the name "Lefty" was because he was left-handed and because of a schoolyard fight he had in his youth and his friends called him "Lefty" from that time on.

http://boxrec.com/en/boxer/115079

[prewarboxing]

Carl Brisson (24 December 1893 – 25 September 1958), born Carl Frederik Ejnar Pedersen. According to WIkipedia he boxed periodically between 1912 and 1915. However I see no "Carl Pendersen" on BoxRec, let alone Carl Brisson. It could very well be he was a boxer--- but--- its most likely he was an amateur or semi-pro or even a carnival boxer whose records never were written down.

Or it could be like one of my favorite singers "Lefty" Frizzell, where people claimed he was a former Golden Gloves champion before becoming a singer--- only to find out the name "Lefty" was because he was left-handed and because of a schoolyard fight he had in his youth and his friends called him "Lefty" from that time on.

http://boxrec.com/en/boxer/115079

I have said this a few times before but I think it needs restating. The boxrec database for the period before 1945 is very far from being complete. I feel certain that Pedersen will have had many more than nine bouts and that the opponents shown here as making their debut will have boxed previously.

Miles

[HomicideHenry]

Cool, thanks for finding his record.

I agree with PreWar about the BoxRec database. There's many who come to mind. Abraham Hollandersky was arguably the most prolific boxer of all time (1,500+ bouts) but BoxRec lists very few. Yes he fought mostly exhibitions--- but I find it disgraceful that BoxRec will add "Classy" Freddie Blassie as one of Galento's opponents when THAT was a wrestling program, and yet disregard many bouts.

Off the top of my head, this reminds me of Jack Palance who fought JOHNNY RISKO. According to BoxRec it'd make you think he fought the man in his pro debut--- but according to Palance he had a handful of bouts or more before facing Risko.

I've butted heads with BoxRec for years over adding HARRY HOLLINGER to his pro record, despite the fact newspapers mention that it happened--- but I guess the "higher ups" like Mike DeLisa want to ignore local town history (where I come from in Sidney Ohio) just because his criteria hasn't been met, etc.

[wouter]

Off the top of my head, this reminds me of Jack Palance who fought JOHNNY RISKO. According to BoxRec it'd make you think he fought the man in his pro debut--- but according to Palance he had a handful of bouts or more before facing Risko.

Palance fought Joe Baksi, not Johnny Risko. His previous bouts were more than likely amateur affairs. He was fighting as an amateur as late as April 1940.

[HomicideHenry]

I stand corrected, my apologies. Dunno why I had Risko on the brain. I could have swore Palance was "4-0" before facing Baksi, but, it could be a mental trick cus their fight was a 4 rounder & went the whole four. Considering Baksi had 9 fights without a loss before facing Palance, and Baksi probably had amateurs too--- it's pretty impressive that Palance went the whole four in a debut.