GGG: an all time middleweight great?

[geronimo]

For you can be Gennady Golovkin put in the top 10 all time middleweight boxers?

[paddy chavez]

Yes I'd say so , he's never had the big fights to be top 4 but he's a mid / high top 10 middle weight.

[Ruthless-RKO]

Yeh.

[jamamb]

no not at all

if were looking for a soviet stud of the moment, then usyk and loma already have better wins 10 less years pro and 25 less fights

i am just really not impressed by beating a bunch of b-c level opponents. its the big ones that matter and ggg couldnt beat canelo and just squeaked by jacobs in a fight he easily couldve lost

[jamamb]

well, ill say, hes accomplished as much as about darisz michalswki, but ggg had more of a fanboy craze in english speaking media and will probably get rated higher long term, but really im not impressed by his wins at all on an atg scale

[Onetimeonly]

Not even close IMO.

[paddy chavez]

no not at all

if were looking for a soviet stud of the moment, then usyk and loma already have better wins 10 less years pro and 25 less fights

i am just really not impressed by beating a bunch of b-c level opponents. its the big ones that matter and ggg couldnt beat canelo and just squeaked by jacobs in a fight he easily couldve lost

The same as Hopkins then ! He fought c class fighters or smaller fighters then beaten back to back by Taylor.

[Enlightened-One]

GGG: an all time middleweight great?

For you can be Gennady Golovkin put in the top 10 all time middleweight boxers?

In terms of ability? Maybe, but the calibre of opposition he fought when he was at his physical prime was terribly dire. So I would prefer to say “NO”, since there are too many unknowns for my liking and I flatly-refuse to grant any fighter an honorary rite of passage to “all-time-greatness” without having earned such a prestigious title inside the ring.

In terms of accomplishment? Definitely not! In fact, he’s nowhere near.

I do like Gennady Golovkin though, but the difference between a bona fide Hall-of-Famer and an all-time-great should be huge and we have to have higher standards and also be extra critical when considering a fighters’ worth for earning the vastly superior latter status.

[Enlightened-One]

no not at all

if were looking for a soviet stud of the moment, then usyk and loma already have better wins 10 less years pro and 25 less fights

i am just really not impressed by beating a bunch of b-c level opponents. its the big ones that matter and ggg couldnt beat canelo and just squeaked by jacobs in a fight he easily couldve lost

The same as Hopkins then ! He fought c class fighters or smaller fighters then beaten back to back by Taylor.

Do you want to have this debate?

We’ve been listening to Team Golovkin boldly proclaim for the last eight years or so that GGG could “easily” compete and defeat any fighter from 154lbs to 175lbs in their natural habitat, but Hopkins actually carried out his promise.

For instance, Hopkins faced light middleweight opponents, such as John David Jackson and Oscar De La Hoya at a catch-weight, weighing 156lbs. And also competed against 175lb-ers, such as Sergey Kovalev, Antonio Tarver, Chad Dawson and Jean Pascal. He even agreed to compete in catchweight bouts against the likes of Ronald Wright and Kelly Pavlik in order to secure fights against the biggest name opponents possible.

Bernard Hopkins competed in at least 36 major world title fights (including the Ring & Lineal titles), emerging victorious in 26 of them and won titles in two weight classes (25 at middleweight and 11 at light heavyweight).

Bernard Hopkins has defeated the likes of:
• Beibut Shumenov
• Tavoris Cloud
• Jean Pascal
• Ronald Wright
• Antonio Tarver
• Jermain Taylor
• Oscar De La Hoya
• William Joppy
• Carl Daniels
• Felix Trinidad
• Keith Holmes
• Antwun Echols
• Robert Allen
• Simon Brown
• Glen Johnson
• John David Jackson
• Segundo Mercado
• Roy Jones Jr.

Come on, let's see your counter-argument?

[Onetimeonly]

5 of those fights were above 160.

[apollo creed]

No doubt. Golovkin although at 35-36 y/o and past of his prime fought the best of his era in their primes/peak of their game (Jacobs and Canelo) and beat them. Also notable wins like Lemieux, Murray and Geale are worth to be mentioned as good wins.

[paddy chavez]

no not at all

if were looking for a soviet stud of the moment, then usyk and loma already have better wins 10 less years pro and 25 less fights

i am just really not impressed by beating a bunch of b-c level opponents. its the big ones that matter and ggg couldnt beat canelo and just squeaked by jacobs in a fight he easily couldve lost

The same as Hopkins then ! He fought c class fighters or smaller fighters then beaten back to back by Taylor.

Do you want to have this debate?

We’ve been listening to Team Golovkin boldly proclaim for the last eight years or so that GGG could “easily” compete and defeat any fighter from 154lbs to 175lbs in their natural habitat, but Hopkins actually carried out his promise.

For instance, Hopkins faced light middleweight opponents, such as John David Jackson and Oscar De La Hoya at a catch-weight, weighing 156lbs. And also competed against 175lb-ers, such as Sergey Kovalev, Antonio Tarver, Chad Dawson and Jean Pascal. He even agreed to compete in catchweight bouts against the likes of Ronald Wright and Kelly Pavlik in order to secure fights against the biggest name opponents possible.

Bernard Hopkins competed in at least 36 major world title fights (including the Ring & Lineal titles), emerging victorious in 26 of them and won titles in two weight classes (25 at middleweight and 11 at light heavyweight).

Bernard Hopkins has defeated the likes of:
• Beibut Shumenov
• Tavoris Cloud
• Jean Pascal
• Ronald Wright
• Antonio Tarver
• Jermain Taylor
• Oscar De La Hoya
• William Joppy
• Carl Daniels
• Felix Trinidad
• Keith Holmes
• Antwun Echols
• Robert Allen
• Simon Brown
• Glen Johnson
• John David Jackson
• Segundo Mercado
• Roy Jones Jr.

Come on, let's see your counter-argument?

We're talking middle weight here who are the great middle weights Hopkins beat ? I can't think of one and please don't say former super feather weight dela Hoya or welterweight Trinidad or welterweight Simon brown an actual middle weight

[apollo creed]

LOL let's not get carried away. IMO Hopkins has three good wins at mw against natural 160 pounders like Mercado, Glen Johnson and Joppy. Trinidad and ODLH were just bloated up welters. When Hopkins stepped up in competition and he fought top-true 160 pounders like RRJ and Jermain Taylor, he lost.

[Ricky]

He's a bit like the Klitchkos in the sense that he didn't really have any great opponents to showcase the extent of his ability until the twilight of his career. His prime was probably round about the time he faced Macklin. His best wins are Lemieux, Jacobs and Canelo (1). I felt he had to stop Canelo to really cement his legacy but he came up short against a great fighter.

[apollo creed]

The same as Hopkins then ! He fought c class fighters or smaller fighters then beaten back to back by Taylor.

Do you want to have this debate?

We’ve been listening to Team Golovkin boldly proclaim for the last eight years or so that GGG could “easily” compete and defeat any fighter from 154lbs to 175lbs in their natural habitat, but Hopkins actually carried out his promise.

For instance, Hopkins faced light middleweight opponents, such as John David Jackson and Oscar De La Hoya at a catch-weight, weighing 156lbs. And also competed against 175lb-ers, such as Sergey Kovalev, Antonio Tarver, Chad Dawson and Jean Pascal. He even agreed to compete in catchweight bouts against the likes of Ronald Wright and Kelly Pavlik in order to secure fights against the biggest name opponents possible.

Bernard Hopkins competed in at least 36 major world title fights (including the Ring & Lineal titles), emerging victorious in 26 of them and won titles in two weight classes (25 at middleweight and 11 at light heavyweight).

Bernard Hopkins has defeated the likes of:
• Beibut Shumenov
• Tavoris Cloud
• Jean Pascal
• Ronald Wright
• Antonio Tarver
• Jermain Taylor
• Oscar De La Hoya
• William Joppy
• Carl Daniels
• Felix Trinidad
• Keith Holmes
• Antwun Echols
• Robert Allen
• Simon Brown
• Glen Johnson
• John David Jackson
• Segundo Mercado
• Roy Jones Jr.

Come on, let's see your counter-argument?

We're talking middle weight here who are the great middle weights Hopkins beat ? I can't think of one and please don't say former super feather weight dela Hoya or welterweight Trinidad or welterweight Simon brown an actual middle weight

Let this senile old man to be delusional - the only irrefutable factual fact about Empty One.

[ironbeard]

He's a bit like the Klitchkos in the sense that he didn't really have any great opponents to showcase the extent of his ability until the twilight of his career. His prime was probably round about the time he faced Macklin. His best wins are Lemieux, Jacobs and Canelo (1). I felt he had to stop Canelo to really cement his legacy but he came up short against a great fighter.

X2

[Enlightened-One]

Do you want to have this debate?

We’ve been listening to Team Golovkin boldly proclaim for the last eight years or so that GGG could “easily” compete and defeat any fighter from 154lbs to 175lbs in their natural habitat, but Hopkins actually carried out his promise.

For instance, Hopkins faced light middleweight opponents, such as John David Jackson and Oscar De La Hoya at a catch-weight, weighing 156lbs. And also competed against 175lb-ers, such as Sergey Kovalev, Antonio Tarver, Chad Dawson and Jean Pascal. He even agreed to compete in catchweight bouts against the likes of Ronald Wright and Kelly Pavlik in order to secure fights against the biggest name opponents possible.

Bernard Hopkins competed in at least 36 major world title fights (including the Ring & Lineal titles), emerging victorious in 26 of them and won titles in two weight classes (25 at middleweight and 11 at light heavyweight).

Bernard Hopkins has defeated the likes of:
• Beibut Shumenov
• Tavoris Cloud
• Jean Pascal
• Ronald Wright
• Antonio Tarver
• Oscar De La Hoya
• William Joppy
• Carl Daniels
• Felix Trinidad
• Keith Holmes
• Antwun Echols
• Robert Allen
• Simon Brown
• Glen Johnson
• John David Jackson
• Segundo Mercado
• Roy Jones Jr.

Come on, let's see your counter-argument?

We're talking middle weight here who are the great middle weights Hopkins beat ? I can't think of one and please don't say former super feather weight dela Hoya or welterweight Trinidad or welterweight Simon brown an actual middle weight

Let this senile old man to be delusional - the only irrefutable factual fact about Empty One.

How many of those men in my post you quoted, with all suffering defeats to Hopkins, were world champions? How many has GGG beaten in comparison?

How many legitimate world middleweight champions has Golovkin beaten? How many had Hopkins beaten?

Mock me all you want, I know you're too scared to answer my simple questions honestly.

[Oiky]

Yeah

Not his fault he was avoided at times when he was game as a pebble and couldlnt get the fights

[Enlightened-One]

Yeah

Not his fault he was avoided at times when he was game as a pebble and couldlnt get the fights

How many times has Tom Loeffler submitted financial offers to GGG’s rivals, which were subsequently turned down? This is a myth that many people wholeheartedly believe in, but is very challenging to substantiate with evidence.

Why are people granting Gennady Golovkin an honorary rite of passage to “all-time-greatness” based on world title victories overthe likes of?

• Dominic Wade
• Willie Monroe Jr.
• Osumanu Adama
• Marco Antonio Rubio
• Curtis Stevens
• Nobuhiro Ishida
• Gabriel Rosado
• Grzegorz Proksa
• Makoto Fuchigami
• Lajuan Simon
• Kassim Ouma
• Kell Brook
• Vanes Martirosyan
• Nilson Julio Tapia
• Milton Nunez

Nearly every single one of these guys were not considered top-ten middleweights (based on ESPN’s and The RING’s divisional rankings) prior to their bouts against Gennady Golovkin and the vast majority of them were former welterweights/light middleweights.

[apollo creed]

Yeah

Not his fault he was avoided at times when he was game as a pebble and couldlnt get the fights

GGG would probably have another T/KO wins against Sturm, Quillin, JCCJr and Martinez on his resume if these guys would've fought him at that time. But prime Jacobs and prime Canelo are much quality wins than any of those guys.

[Enlightened-One]

Yeah

Not his fault he was avoided at times when he was game as a pebble and couldlnt get the fights

GGG would probably have another T/KO wins against Sturm, Quillin, JCCJr and Martinez on his resume if these guys would've fought him at that time. But prime Jacobs and prime Canelo are much quality wins than any of those guys.

Are you avoiding my questions?

[bigman1968]

Sugar Ray Robinson - from times that boxers actually boxed!

[apollo creed]

Yeah

Not his fault he was avoided at times when he was game as a pebble and couldlnt get the fights

How many times has Tom Loeffler submitted financial offers to GGG’s rivals, which were subsequently turned down? This is a myth that many people wholeheartedly believe in, but is very challenging to substantiate with evidence.

Why are people granting Gennady Golovkin an honorary rite of passage to “all-time-greatness” based on world title victories overthe likes of?

• Dominic Wade
• Willie Monroe Jr.
• Osumanu Adama
• Marco Antonio Rubio
• Curtis Stevens
• Nobuhiro Ishida
• Gabriel Rosado
• Grzegorz Proksa
• Makoto Fuchigami
• Lajuan Simon
• Kassim Ouma
• Kell Brook
• Vanes Martirosyan
• Nilson Julio Tapia
• Milton Nunez

Nearly every single one of these guys were not considered top-ten middleweights (based on ESPN’s and The RING’s divisional rankings) prior to their bouts against Gennady Golovkin and the vast majority of them were former welterweights/light middleweights.

Calm down Empty One. You are just mad that GGG has some quality wins on his resume. And I mean top notch high level calibre of opponents in their primes like Canelo and Jacobs. Also according with boxrec rankings Proksa was ranked no 10 in 2012, Macklin no 6 and Stevens no 10 in 2013, Geale no 4 and Murray no 6 in 2014, Lemieux IBF champ no 4 in 2015, Daniel Jacobs WBA reg champ no 2 in 2017 and Canelo was the mw lineal champion!

Deal with it old fart!

[Enlightened-One]

Yeah

Not his fault he was avoided at times when he was game as a pebble and couldlnt get the fights

How many times has Tom Loeffler submitted financial offers to GGG’s rivals, which were subsequently turned down? This is a myth that many people wholeheartedly believe in, but is very challenging to substantiate with evidence.

Why are people granting Gennady Golovkin an honorary rite of passage to “all-time-greatness” based on world title victories overthe likes of?

• Dominic Wade
• Willie Monroe Jr.
• Osumanu Adama
• Marco Antonio Rubio
• Curtis Stevens
• Nobuhiro Ishida
• Gabriel Rosado
• Grzegorz Proksa
• Makoto Fuchigami
• Lajuan Simon
• Kassim Ouma
• Kell Brook
• Vanes Martirosyan
• Nilson Julio Tapia
• Milton Nunez

Nearly every single one of these guys were not considered top-ten middleweights (based on ESPN’s and The RING’s divisional rankings) prior to their bouts against Gennady Golovkin and the vast majority of them were former welterweights/light middleweights.

Calm down Empty One. You are just mad that GGG has some quality wins on his resume. And I mean top notch high level calibre of opponents in their primes like Canelo and Jacobs. Also according with boxrec rankings Proksa was ranked no 10 in 2012, Macklin no 6 and Stevens no 10 in 2013, Geale no 4 and Murray no 6 in 2014, Lemieux IBF champ no 4 in 2015, Daniel Jacobs WBA reg champ no 2 in 2017 and Canelo was the mw lineal champion!

Deal with it old fart!

You have totally failed to provide a valid argument that supports the notion of GGG having a better resume than Hopkins and nor have you supplied anything that provides any possible justification for Golovkin’s alleged “all-time-great” credentials.

And why the fûck are you mentioning BoxRec rankings anyway, they recently rated Jeff Horn amongst the pound-for-pound elite (he was recently ranked 9th)? And Luis Nery is currently rated amongst the top-five pound-for-pounders, above the likes of Oleksandr Usyk, Mikey Garcia and Errol Spence Jr. Naoya Inoue is only rated 25th! FFS!

And just a gentle reminder, Golovkin didn’t actually beat Canelo.

Deal with that old fart!

[paddy chavez]

How many times has Tom Loeffler submitted financial offers to GGG’s rivals, which were subsequently turned down? This is a myth that many people wholeheartedly believe in, but is very challenging to substantiate with evidence.

Why are people granting Gennady Golovkin an honorary rite of passage to “all-time-greatness” based on world title victories overthe likes of?

• Dominic Wade
• Willie Monroe Jr.
• Osumanu Adama
• Marco Antonio Rubio
• Curtis Stevens
• Nobuhiro Ishida
• Gabriel Rosado
• Grzegorz Proksa
• Makoto Fuchigami
• Lajuan Simon
• Kassim Ouma
• Kell Brook
• Vanes Martirosyan
• Nilson Julio Tapia
• Milton Nunez

Nearly every single one of these guys were not considered top-ten middleweights (based on ESPN’s and The RING’s divisional rankings) prior to their bouts against Gennady Golovkin and the vast majority of them were former welterweights/light middleweights.

Calm down Empty One. You are just mad that GGG has some quality wins on his resume. And I mean top notch high level calibre of opponents in their primes like Canelo and Jacobs. Also according with boxrec rankings Proksa was ranked no 10 in 2012, Macklin no 6 and Stevens no 10 in 2013, Geale no 4 and Murray no 6 in 2014, Lemieux IBF champ no 4 in 2015, Daniel Jacobs WBA reg champ no 2 in 2017 and Canelo was the mw lineal champion!

Deal with it old fart!

You have totally failed to provide a valid argument that supports the notion of GGG having a better resume than Hopkins and nor have you supplied anything that provides any possible justification for Golovkin’s alleged “all-time-great” credentials.

And why the fûck are you mentioning BoxRec rankings anyway, they recently rated Jeff Horn amongst the pound-for-pound elite (he was recently ranked 9th)? And Luis Nery is currently rated amongst the top-five pound-for-pounders, above the likes of Oleksandr Usyk, Mikey Garcia and Errol Spence Jr. Naoya Inoue is only rated 25th! FFS!

Deal with that old fart!

So we're all agreed golovkin has a better middle resume than the midget fighting Hopkins