Evaluate the judging for 2018 (scale 1-10)

ValMar · Post by **ValMar** » 22 Oct 2018, 12:09

Would you evaluate the judging for this year, considering the top level matches (fights for titles/or contenders and WBSS) only. For me, it is 2/10, unfortunately.

DrDuke · Post by **DrDuke** » 22 Oct 2018, 18:41

Not many special stuff. There were some hometown scores, which are so usual things. Joshua and Wilder had regular judges' backup. Canelo expectantly took the decision in a close fight. WBSS was good overall, especially with an absolutly fair shotout scores against Gassiev at his country. Usyk-Briedis wasn't wide enough. Groves-Smith was also not reflecting an actual picture much.

Ilya Muromets · Post by **Ilya Muromets** » 22 Oct 2018, 22:15

If this were my thread I'd extend it down to - (negative) 10!

tiny_acres · Post by **tiny_acres** » 22 Oct 2018, 22:38

5/10
Some good decisions some bad decision. Nothing different than there has been in the last 75 years

man · Post by **man** » 23 Oct 2018, 14:41

i think judging in boxing is by far not
as bad as boxing forums might make
you think. really terrible decisions are
pretty rare.

greg · Post by **greg** » 23 Oct 2018, 15:58

..I don't have statistics to make an EDUCATED guess and it might be also different from venue to venue..too many hometown decisions in close fights..

ValMar · Post by **ValMar** » 23 Oct 2018, 16:12

man wrote: ↑23 Oct 2018, 14:41 i think judging in boxing is by far not
as bad as boxing forums might make
you think. really terrible decisions are
pretty rare.

I hope you are not serious.

Ruthless-RKO · Post by **Ruthless-RKO** » 23 Oct 2018, 16:59

tiny_acres wrote: ↑22 Oct 2018, 22:38 5/10
Some good decisions some bad decision. Nothing different than there has been in the last 75 years

I agree. Most just look at the bad decisions.

tiny_acres · Post by **tiny_acres** » 23 Oct 2018, 17:24

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑23 Oct 2018, 16:59
tiny_acres wrote: ↑22 Oct 2018, 22:38 5/10
Some good decisions some bad decision. Nothing different than there has been in the last 75 years
I agree. Most just look at the bad decisions.

There are some bad decisions but over all I'd say 90% or better are fair

Thomastearns · Post by **Thomastearns** » 24 Oct 2018, 03:41

Boxing is a business first and a sport second as many here already appreciate. This is true for the promoters, the broadcasters, the casinos who often bankroll the superfights, the pro boxers or those who want to turn pro,
and the administrators (inc those responsible for testing).

Therefore we have to see it in terms of investment for profit. For that reason its doubtful whether we will ever see good independent judging in this sport. Judging has always been bad but the recent controversies with Kovalev, Pacquiao, and then both GGG fights etc may have been a tipping point.

The good news is that this seems to be largely confined to the big money fights and no matter how you judge it there will always be great fights. Knockouts, stoppages and shutouts are the only sure way of avoiding this. Anthony Joshua has risen to become the biggest star in the game with hardly any controversy, unless you really believe Takam was stopped too early. So far the judges have been little more than spectators in his fights.

The number of times the judges score the same round differently regularly makes scoring a mockery. You and I might both score a fight 115-113, but have awarded the rounds in a different way! If we're seeing a completely different fight, then even a similar scorecard can't help.

The general corruption in boxing is so pervasive that its currently battling to save its status as an Olympic sport. Along with marathon running, boxing is the Olympic sport.

I mean if the Olympic committee think you are too corrupt...

Perseus · Post by **Perseus** » 24 Oct 2018, 09:47

man wrote: ↑23 Oct 2018, 14:41 i think judging in boxing is by far not
as bad as boxing forums might make
you think. really terrible decisions are
pretty rare.

People only focus on what they consider to be a bad decision and not every fight that goes to the cards.

Also there are way too many people who think any scorecard that does not match their own is a bad scorecard.
There are even more who cry robbery ANY time the fighter they wanted to win doesn't get the decision.

In a closely contested fight there is no such thing as a bad decision.
Bad scorecards that were too wide for one of the fighters?
Yes.
Bad decision?
No.

tiny_acres · Post by **tiny_acres** » 24 Oct 2018, 10:12

Perseus wrote: ↑24 Oct 2018, 09:47
man wrote: ↑23 Oct 2018, 14:41 i think judging in boxing is by far not
as bad as boxing forums might make
you think. really terrible decisions are
pretty rare.

People only focus on what they consider to be a bad decision and not every fight that goes to the cards.

Also there are way too many people who think any scorecard that does not match their own is a bad scorecard.
There are even more who cry robbery ANY time the fighter they wanted to win doesn't get the decision.

In a closely contested fight there is no such thing as a bad decision.
Bad scorecards that were too wide for one of the fighters?
Yes.
Bad decision?
No.

Nailed it

Enlightened-One · Post by **Enlightened-One** » 24 Oct 2018, 10:26

The conclusion I’ve drawn from my interpretation of the votes submitted to this poll is that the common perception is that that the quality of judging has been poor during 2018.

However, has anybody bothered to quantify whether this opinion accurately reflects reality?

What I mean is this…

What is the percentage of controversial decisions issued by the judges in comparison to the total amount of fights that went to the scorecards during the current calendar year?

I’m assuming that no one has bothered spending any time reviewing the several thousand bouts that took place during 2018 and performed this sort of analysis, which means that the opinions of expressed by those that submitted votes to this poll almost certainly fails to reflect reality, because people enjoy complaining.

tiny_acres · Post by **tiny_acres** » 24 Oct 2018, 11:28

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑24 Oct 2018, 10:26 The conclusion I’ve drawn, …………. people enjoy complaining.

This summed up your post. The first 4 words and the last 3 words.

A perfect summation. Sorry to paraphrase a good post but the majority won't bother to read it otherwise

ValMar · Post by **ValMar** » 24 Oct 2018, 11:29

EO, I wrote "considering the top level matches only"...............

Stuarty · Post by **Stuarty** » 24 Oct 2018, 11:31

Judging in 2018 is as bad as it's ever been!

tiny_acres · Post by **tiny_acres** » 24 Oct 2018, 11:33

ValMar wrote: ↑24 Oct 2018, 11:29 EO, I wrote "considering the top level matches only"...............

That's all we can base this off of. We have no idea how many awful hometown decisions were handed out in a smoke filled bar with an audience of 35. Impossible to track otherwise

Stuarty · Post by **Stuarty** » 24 Oct 2018, 11:34

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑24 Oct 2018, 10:26 The conclusion I’ve drawn from my interpretation of the votes submitted to this poll is that the common perception is that that the quality of judging has been poor during 2018.

However, has anybody bothered to quantify whether this opinion accurately reflects reality?

What I mean is this…

What is the percentage of controversial decisions issued by the judges in comparison to the total amount of fights that went to the scorecards during the current calendar year?

I’m assuming that no one has bothered spending any time reviewing the several thousand bouts that took place during 2018 and performed this sort of analysis, which means that the opinions of expressed by those that submitted votes to this poll almost certainly fails to reflect reality, because people enjoy complaining.

You were doing well up to this point

Enlightened-One · Post by **Enlightened-One** » 24 Oct 2018, 11:39

ValMar wrote: ↑24 Oct 2018, 11:29 EO, I wrote "considering the top level matches only"...............

OK, can you supply the stats for all bouts classified by BoxRec as three star fights or above that went to the judges' scorecard during 2018, whilst also detailing those that resulted in controversial verdicts? Can you list them?

Perseus · Post by **Perseus** » 28 Oct 2018, 19:42

So it took less than a week for my previous post on this thread to be confirmed.

The main event of the HBO show gave us a very close contest which the judges scored as such.

Within minutes people were crying robbery and/or declaring the fight was fixed

ewenhay · Post by **ewenhay** » 28 Oct 2018, 19:54

I think there are two different issues that I find, in the televised fights at least.

1. In many cases the judges tend to score in favour of the 'home' fighter. Whether that is through being influenced by the crowd or by means more foul is another question.

2. The general disparity in scoring between the 3 judges scoring the same fight can be wildly different. This doesn't fill anyone with much confidence in the judges' ability to score a fight.

I don't think it's any worse in 2018 than any other year in recent memory. They just expect us to accept it as part of the sport now though which is the most annoying bit.

caldo2025 · Post by **caldo2025** » 29 Oct 2018, 19:15

I find the trouble is all here in America. Every single time i watch a bout in England, I say in my head "right on". That's exactly how I scored the fight. In England, they are the only judges that have a criteria that is stuck to and I just find all of their decisions to be very responsible for fights and understandable.

In America, it's a mess. If i'm Joshua or Fury, i'm never fighting here. Here the scoring criterium is kept obscure so that they can operate under the clout of darkness to do all of their filthy dealings like they did twice against GGG. I wish i were a Brit so that i could just focus on the talent over there and enjoy the sport that has a ton more honesty and fair play. Here, the sport is an absolute farce. Whoever can make the most money for people in the next fight, they win the decisions.

tiny_acres · Post by **tiny_acres** » 29 Oct 2018, 19:30

caldo2025 wrote: ↑29 Oct 2018, 19:15 I find the trouble is all here in America. Every single time i watch a bout in England, I say in my head "right on". That's exactly how I scored the fight. In England, they are the only judges that have a criteria that is stuck to and I just find all of their decisions to be very responsible for fights and understandable.

In America, it's a mess. If i'm Joshua or Fury, i'm never fighting here. Here the scoring criterium is kept obscure so that they can operate under the clout of darkness to do all of their filthy dealings like they did twice against GGG. I wish i were a Brit so that i could just focus on the talent over there and enjoy the sport that has a ton more honesty and fair play. Here, the sport is an absolute farce. Whoever can make the most money for people in the next fight, they win the decisions.

The grass is not always greener on the other side of the fence.
Judging is questionable everywhere. Stop being fooled

caldo2025 · Post by **caldo2025** » 30 Oct 2018, 07:45

tiny_acres wrote: ↑29 Oct 2018, 19:30
caldo2025 wrote: ↑29 Oct 2018, 19:15 I find the trouble is all here in America. Every single time i watch a bout in England, I say in my head "right on". That's exactly how I scored the fight. In England, they are the only judges that have a criteria that is stuck to and I just find all of their decisions to be very responsible for fights and understandable.

In America, it's a mess. If i'm Joshua or Fury, i'm never fighting here. Here the scoring criterium is kept obscure so that they can operate under the clout of darkness to do all of their filthy dealings like they did twice against GGG. I wish i were a Brit so that i could just focus on the talent over there and enjoy the sport that has a ton more honesty and fair play. Here, the sport is an absolute farce. Whoever can make the most money for people in the next fight, they win the decisions.
The grass is not always greener on the other side of the fence.
Judging is questionable everywhere. Stop being fooled

I’ve seen enough of a sample size to form this opinion. Boxing is a major sport to the Brits unlike it is here in states and they are less likely to get away with stealing 2 decisions away from a boxer like GGG in the years biggest fights. GGG would have won both fights vs. Canelo if hosted in England. No doubt in my mind.

Ruthless-RKO · Post by **Ruthless-RKO** » 31 Oct 2018, 14:40

A recap of a really bad set of scores.. This year..

117-110, 118-110 and 119-108 all in favour of Josh Taylor against Victor Postol.

Don't get me wrong, I think the right boxer won, but if someone saw them scorecards in a few years time, it looks like Taylor dominated Postol and you'd have to watch the fight to see..

Scorecards did not give Postol any credit.

Even McGuigan said they were too wide.