Classic American West Coast Boxing

[chrisjs1985]

In Memory Of

Jerry Quarry's pro boxing debut was on the undercard of the Vicente Saldiver/Raul Rojas featherweight championship fight. I never knew that before. I just happened to stumble upon that when I was doing some researching of the title fight. The championship match I do remember. it wasn't televised,but afterwards I saw the replay. The fight was at the Memorial Coliseum.The big stadium is located across the street from the University of Southern California.At the time The Coliseum was home to the USC Trojan football team and the LA Rams When the Brooklyn Dodgers left New York in 1958 and came out to LA,the Coliseum was their homefield until Dodger Stadium was completed in 1962 .San Diego had no big league baseball then so I followed the Dodgers. I liked the Dodgers when they were in New York mainly because I hated the Yankees. I continued to pull for them in LA because they had Koufax and Drysdale. I remember seeing a World Series game between the Dodgers and the Chicago White Sox at the Coliseum in 1959.My very favorite team was the Chicago White Sox The Sox won the game,but lost the series in six .I think the Coliseum still holds the record for attendance for a baseball game. The day I was there with my father there were over 90,000 fans in the seats

That title match with Saldivar and Rojas drew a lot of interest. Both fighters had splendid records.Rojas had never been defeated in the ring.Saldivar had one fight in the lost column,that was against the Cuban, Baby Luis. Saldivar broke down Sugar Ramos to win the title in Mexico City and became the hottest tamale in the country. It was the usual feeling in this kind of a fight with the Chicano ,Rojas,up against the Mexican national,Saldiver. Just about everyone inside the walls(and out in the streets)were hoping that Saldivar would keep his crown The Chicano fighter in LA couldn't even get the hometown fans to cheer for him.I remember hearing Alberto Sandoval saying he added an "o" onto the end of his name Albert thinking that would sway some fans his way. He had to have been dreaming.

Saldivar would often start slowly..That was common among many Mexican fighters. It's like they had to be woken up first.But against Rojas,Saldiver was in charge early. Vicente finally hammered Rojas into submission in the 15th and last round. The fans got their money's worth that night

That fight kind of signaled the beginning of the Golden Era Of Boxing in LA Later,Olivares would enhance the Latino following with his destruction of Lionel Rose The Olympic Auditorium would get fired up. The Fabulous Forum was our Madison Square Garden.

One last comment before I let this go. I remember when the Memorial Coliseum didn't serve alcohol. This policy was to observe our servicemen who had given their lives for our country. It's hard to imagine going to a fight and you can't have a beer. If the fight is to your liking,you throw money. If not,you throw beer.



Vicente Saldivar

Good stuff. Saldivar was one of the great Featherweights often overlooked in discussions these days. I’m curious as to why he retired so young? I’d love to see the fight with my guy Jofre. I realize both were old but I’d still give an organ for a copy of the fight.

Oh and go Rams!!

[dagosd2000]

In Memory Of

Jerry Quarry's pro boxing debut was on the undercard of the Vicente Saldiver/Raul Rojas featherweight championship fight. I never knew that before. I just happened to stumble upon that when I was doing some researching of the title fight. The championship match I do remember. it wasn't televised,but afterwards I saw the replay. The fight was at the Memorial Coliseum.The big stadium is located across the street from the University of Southern California.At the time The Coliseum was home to the USC Trojan football team and the LA Rams When the Brooklyn Dodgers left New York in 1958 and came out to LA,the Coliseum was their homefield until Dodger Stadium was completed in 1962 .San Diego had no big league baseball then so I followed the Dodgers. I liked the Dodgers when they were in New York mainly because I hated the Yankees. I continued to pull for them in LA because they had Koufax and Drysdale. I remember seeing a World Series game between the Dodgers and the Chicago White Sox at the Coliseum in 1959.My very favorite team was the Chicago White Sox The Sox won the game,but lost the series in six .I think the Coliseum still holds the record for attendance for a baseball game. The day I was there with my father there were over 90,000 fans in the seats

That title match with Saldivar and Rojas drew a lot of interest. Both fighters had splendid records.Rojas had never been defeated in the ring.Saldivar had one fight in the lost column,that was against the Cuban, Baby Luis. Saldivar broke down Sugar Ramos to win the title in Mexico City and became the hottest tamale in the country. It was the usual feeling in this kind of a fight with the Chicano ,Rojas,up against the Mexican national,Saldiver. Just about everyone inside the walls(and out in the streets)were hoping that Saldivar would keep his crown The Chicano fighter in LA couldn't even get the hometown fans to cheer for him.I remember hearing Alberto Sandoval saying he added an "o" onto the end of his name Albert thinking that would sway some fans his way. He had to have been dreaming.

Saldivar would often start slowly..That was common among many Mexican fighters. It's like they had to be woken up first.But against Rojas,Saldiver was in charge early. Vicente finally hammered Rojas into submission in the 15th and last round. The fans got their money's worth that night

That fight kind of signaled the beginning of the Golden Era Of Boxing in LA Later,Olivares would enhance the Latino following with his destruction of Lionel Rose The Olympic Auditorium would get fired up. The Fabulous Forum was our Madison Square Garden.

One last comment before I let this go. I remember when the Memorial Coliseum didn't serve alcohol. This policy was to observe our servicemen who had given their lives for our country. It's hard to imagine going to a fight and you can't have a beer. If the fight is to your liking,you throw money. If not,you throw beer.



Vicente Saldivar

Good stuff. Saldivar was one of the great Featherweights often overlooked in discussions these days. I’m curious as to why he retired so young? I’d love to see the fight with my guy Jofre. I realize both were old but I’d still give an organ for a copy of the fight.

Oh and go Rams!!


Thanks again Chris.

Some aficianados say that Saldiver was spending less time in the gym and more time in the cantinas, i saw his fight with Shibata in Tijuana. Saldivar would often start slowly,but gain strength as the fight moved on. That night he never gathered himself. He looked weak. Saldivar's corner threw in the towel. I think he was beginning to show signs of lack of desire. He probably needed the money,and thought he could catch lightning in the bottle when he decided to take off his pants again. Jofre was a fight he rushed into. Jofre knocked him out cold. They say after that,Saldivar sank into an abyss of the sordid life. He died at the age of 42 in Mexico City. A tragedy.

[dagosd2000]

The Feel Of Things

You can't put it into a database The Las Vegas bookies are in the dark. Yet it's probably the most important factor when analyzing how the outcome will turn out. How does the Mexican fighter feel when he enters the ring? I guess that "feeling" can pertain to any athlete of any nationality,but I've seen it happen time and again with Mexican fighters.They wake up the morning of the fight and they know they should have stayed in bed. There's nothing physically wrong. The fighter trained hard.Nothing was left out in preparation. But he knows that he ain't right. He's whipped before he puts on his trunks.

I once asked Rodolfo Gonzalez,Joe Becerra's nephew,what happened when Joe was KO'd by a lightly regarded Eloy Sanchez. Rodolfo answered that Becerra told him that he just didn't" feel "right that night. After that loss he hung up his gloves. Two years later he boxed a six round exhibition.

When Vicente Saldivar was mowing down everybody they put in front of him,the Japanese Shibata,with nothing remarkable on his tecord,wore down a stale looking Saldivar to capture the featherweight title.Saldivar was never the dominate force again.

"Pajarito" Moreno looked like he'd get a title belt against a good but not great champion, Hogan "Kid" Bassety.The fight was set up in Moreno's backyard at Wrigley Field in Los Angeles. Moreno was fighting in a fog losing every round until Bassey stopped him in three short rounds. Moreno never wore a championship belt around his waist.

Ruben "El Puas" Olivares was a cinch to keep his unbeaten string going against "Chucho" Castillo,but faltered late and wound up losing for the first time(and his crown),a bloody mess.

"Battling" Torres,granted was trying to wrest the title from a great fighter,Carlos Ortiz,but was outclassed from the opening bell.The fight was at the Memorial Coliseum. It was like Torres was overwhelmed from the get go.His undefeated record went down the drain,and his ensuing career was up and down after that. He never won a championship

Mexican fighters are as unpredictable as the weather. A bright forecast can suddenly bring clouds and rain.Don't ask me what causes these happenstance doldrums. I say that because I have the same malady The feeling is overwhelming. There's no rah rah speech that can reverse this mood. An empty hopelessness. A panic.Call it a male hot flash.I'm sure I'm not the only one who gets this way at times



Joe Becerra

[chrisjs1985]

A friend of mine was trying to track down an interview with Becerra until he died. His theory was that he never quite got it together mentally after the death of Walt Ingram. Plausible to a degree but he scored a great win over Halmini not long after that. Becerra was very nearly a great fighter. Wasn’t he the most popular Mexican fighter of all-time until Olivares?

Speaking of Olivares, I’ve never seen the re-match with Rafael Herrera but I have just obtained an excellent copy of it and will watch it later today. Herrera thrashed Olivares badly to win the title with it being well publicized that he was killing himself making weight. A points win at 126 after losing the title himself would indicate that perhaps Herrera just had the number of the great Olivares. I love Olivares. He’s one of my favorite fighters of all-time alongside the Marquez brothers, Jofre, Trinidad, Sanchez, Napoles, Rodriguez, Hagler and Carlos Ortiz.

[dagosd2000]

A friend of mine was trying to track down an interview with Becerra until he died. His theory was that he never quite got it together mentally after the death of Walt Ingram. Plausible to a degree but he scored a great win over Halmini not long after that. Becerra was very nearly a great fighter. Wasn’t he the most popular Mexican fighter of all-time until Olivares?

Speaking of Olivares, I’ve never seen the re-match with Rafael Herrera but I have just obtained an excellent copy of it and will watch it later today. Herrera thrashed Olivares badly to win the title with it being well publicized that he was killing himself making weight. A points win at 126 after losing the title himself would indicate that perhaps Herrera just had the number of the great Olivares. I love Olivares. He’s one of my favorite fighters of all-time alongside the Marquez brothers, Jofre, Trinidad, Sanchez, Napoles, Rodriguez, Hagler and Carlos Ortiz.

Chris
When I asked Rodolfo Gonzalez about the Sanchez loss,he alluded to something about Becerra was having family problems. I think he said something about Becerra's marraige was on the rocks. Yes,Becerra was very popular,but at that time "Raton" Macias had a larger following. He had a gregarious personality,was an Olympic Siiver Medalist,and was a matinees idol. I was quite close to an old gentleman who worked at the Mexican Consulate in San Diego. His name was Wally O'Campo. He was on the 52 and 56 Mexican Olympic swim teams. He said that Macias was the life of the Mexican compound in !952.Everyone wanted to be around him.

You're right about Herrerra having Ruben's number. Herrerra would punch straight inside when Olivares wound up with the hook. He caught Ruben almost at will.


"Raton" Macias

[chrisjs1985]

I just watched the second fight between Olivares and Herrera and Olivares looked a lot better this time. Herrera’s decision was well earned though. I felt he won 6-4 and he scored a knockdown. Olivares closed the gap late winning some round as he went for it more but Herrera took his shots well. I think I’m going to binge some of my favorite Olivares fights next week.

Regarding Raton Macias. An excellent fighter indeed. I wish he’d have fought more. An unusually low number of fights for a Mexican fighter but I guess he was matched tough from the beginning much like Lomachenko was in recent years.

A friend of mine was trying to track down an interview with Becerra until he died. His theory was that he never quite got it together mentally after the death of Walt Ingram. Plausible to a degree but he scored a great win over Halmini not long after that. Becerra was very nearly a great fighter. Wasn’t he the most popular Mexican fighter of all-time until Olivares?

Speaking of Olivares, I’ve never seen the re-match with Rafael Herrera but I have just obtained an excellent copy of it and will watch it later today. Herrera thrashed Olivares badly to win the title with it being well publicized that he was killing himself making weight. A points win at 126 after losing the title himself would indicate that perhaps Herrera just had the number of the great Olivares. I love Olivares. He’s one of my favorite fighters of all-time alongside the Marquez brothers, Jofre, Trinidad, Sanchez, Napoles, Rodriguez, Hagler and Carlos Ortiz.

Chris
When I asked Rodolfo Gonzalez about the Sanchez loss,he alluded to something about Becerra was having family problems. I think he said something about Becerra's marraige was on the rocks. Yes,Becerra was very popular,but at that time "Raton" Macias had a larger following. He had a gregarious personality,was an Olympic Siiver Medalist,and was a matinees idol. I was quite close to an old gentleman who worked at the Mexican Consulate in San Diego. His name was Wally O'Campo. He was on the 52 and 56 Mexican Olympic swim teams. He said that Macias was the life of the Mexican compound in !952.Everyone wanted to be around him.

You're right about Herrerra having Ruben's number. Herrerra would punch straight inside when Olivares wound up with the hook. He caught Ruben almost at will.


"Raton" Macias

[dagosd2000]

Chris
Raton Macias was wise enough to figure to get out when he still had his marbles and his money. He was a handsome guy and had the talent to become an actor. He was very popular in Mexico with his second career in films and television. There's a thread I see about who had the best "left hook."
I can't say that Billy Peacock had the best left hook ever,but the night he broke Raton Macias's jaw is in my opinion the most devastating left hook I've ever seen.

[dagosd2000]

Adonis Stevenson and Chad Dawson




Joe Louis Billy Conn

Was watching a replay of Adonis Stevenson's one punch KO of Chad Dawson to win the light heavy title. What got me was Stevenson's celebration. Got me thinking of Louis's first fight with Billy Conn.All Conn has to do is keep boxing and he wins the crown. But Conn thinks he can get Joe out of there early. Billy's Irish and tough,but is thinking with his heart instead of using his head. Joe gets him into an exchange in the 13th. The rest is history. Contrast Joe's reaction with Stevenson's.



Joe Louis. Can't imagine boxing without him.

[dagosd2000]

The Halls Of Montezuma

Kid Azteca had a boxing career that stretched over four decades,a career longer than all the former fighters. His first fight was in 1932,his finale in 1961. 252 fights in total. His last recorded bout was a KO in a the first round against a fighter who was making his debut in the ring What a way to end a career. What a way to start one . The fighter who got the short end that night was a fella' by the name of Alfonso Malacara. BoxRec doesn't show him to have had any other fights,but that's unlikely. Fights in rural areas,especially in Mexico,are often not noted. Alfonso Malacara most likely has some" lost" engagements that we'll never know.Maybe that wasn't Malacara's first fight,but the irony of a rookie start against the fighter with longest fistic profession under his belt, lends itself to ask some questions.


Today,fighters don't last four decades. If they fight 40 times that's quite an accomplishment. Oh,there's some battlers that retire and then they drag them back five years later and they have a fight.Or there's the pug that cherry picks himself around and has a couple of fights a year over a time span. What his aim is is anyone's guess. I was too young and too far away to see some of those Mexican fighters who fought every week in all the old arenas in all the little pueblos in the republic. They had names like Otilo Galvan,Kid Anahuac,Humberto CarrilloToluco Lopez,and Luis Castillo They often fought each other. They donned their trunks and put on their gloves like the man in the street grabbing his lunch in a brown paper bag and walking out to the bus stop to go to work. There were no big fights in big venuesMaybe a fight for a "Mexican Title.". Their combat never neared The Garden in New York. If they landed a main event in the Arena Coliseo in Mexico City,they cut out the news clipping and pasted it in their scrap books.


Fighting was the way they made a living. It had nothing to do whether they liked it or not I don't think they lost any sleep the night before a fight. I don't think they had a sleepless night after the fight was over. If they took a beating it came with the territory. There'd be another fight next week to get on the winning track ,and maybe it would their turn to dish it out. But if you look at those BoxRec records it's common to see a regular string of red "L's" before the last fight with the last red "L"goes down in history.

I got to know Gaspar Ortega.This was long after he retired from boxing. I saw him fight it seemed like every week on television. He used to live in Tijuana and one day with my father saw him treat everyone to ice cream at the park in Colonia Morelos But I never saw Ortega fight in person. He was another of those Mexican fighters who had frequented the countless arenas,auditoriums,and bullrings throughout the Land Of The Aztecs. But I got in on the very tail end to see one of those old warriors,Baby Vasquez.

Sure,I had heard of Baby Vasquez, I knew he was of that ilk of Mexican fighter who had climbed through the ropes untold times to face whoever they put in front of him without protestation. I had seen him on the television replays on those Sunday afternoons in those tawdry bars in Tijuana fight the gamut of the division bottom to top. I saw him give Jose Napoles fits. The Baby was like trying to hit quicksilver in a pan of hot Manteca.

I saw the fight posters nailed to all the telephone poles and the sides of the buildings in downtown.I didn't recognize his opponent,but they could have matched him up with one of The Three Stooges and it wouldn't have made no difference. The Fronton Palacio was where they set up the ring. They gave the Jai Alai players the night off so the Tijuaneros could see one of their living legends. I got cozy in a ringside seat.Vasquez was never a big puncher so I hoped to see all his slipperiness in hits preeminence. I got what I paid for. Baby was old enough to be this kid's father"Baby" was a misnomer that night. It was like a father giving his son a cuffing for being a naughty boy. A run away decision after ten rounds.

When I got on board to BoxRec ten years ago,I thought I'd look up that night i saw Baby Vasquez give that kid a good spanking. I couldn't believe what I saw. The opponent,who I couldn't remember the name,,had stepped into the ring for his first pro fight! Vasquez must have carried him for whatever reason.


So I can say I got to see one of those bygone Mexican fighters who had criss crossed the country leaving their marks, and now their names are only on the lips of the ones that saw those confrontations. It's getting blurry. The color is fading to black and white. The memories are fragmenting. But unlike the Aztecs there are no monuments.



Kid Azteca

[chrisjs1985]

Kid Azteca is one I'm going to read more about. I know a brief synopsis of his story. The man fought a who's who of his era including fighting another guy I want to get more versed with in Cocoa Kid. I noticed Cocoa got inducted into the IBHOF but Azteca never did.

https://books.google.com/books?id=IiYzD ... ew&f=false

Have you ever read this book? A History of Boxing In Mexico: Masculinity, Modernity, and Nationalism

I saw the price as being a bit steep at $60 but am reading the book on google. It just misses pages in each story. There's one on Napoles which I'm up to now. A Saldivar once which I'll check out today. I read the Olivares one yesterday and was interested to see he was the highest paid athlete in the world in 1970 and apparently more liked at that time with Mexicans in LA then Mexico where it appears people either loved or hated him due to his lifestyle and what they say, selfish nature.

[dagosd2000]

Kid Azteca is one I'm going to read more about. I know a brief synopsis of his story. The man fought a who's who of his era including fighting another guy I want to get more versed with in Cocoa Kid. I noticed Cocoa got inducted into the IBHOF but Azteca never did.

https://books.google.com/books?id=IiYzD ... ew&f=false

Have you ever read this book? A History of Boxing In Mexico: Masculinity, Modernity, and Nationalism

I saw the price as being a bit steep at $60 but am reading the book on google. It just misses pages in each story. There's one on Napoles which I'm up to now. A Saldivar once which I'll check out today. I read the Olivares one yesterday and was interested to see he was the highest paid athlete in the world in 1970 and apparently more liked at that time with Mexicans in LA then Mexico where it appears people either loved or hated him due to his lifestyle and what they say, selfish nature.
[/quote

Thanks Chris
You've piqued my interest about that book..I'm going to look into it. The salaries are often overlooked,especially with the Mexican fighters like Olivares and Napoles(naturalized Mexican citizen).They were pulling in as much money as any athletes in the world. Yes,Ruben was more liked by Chicanos in LA than Bobby Chacon who he had a rivalry with

There's a bill coming up for vote in San Diego re: land development in Mission Valley for a proposed stadium that will bring a MSL team to San Diego. I won't vote for it because the soccer fans in San Diego are comprised mostly of Mexicans. Tijuana has a team in Division A. in the Liga MX. They sell out every game. Many of the fans that go work in San Diego.Some live here or in TJ. Their allegiance with the Tijuana team,The Xolos,is almost fanatical. I don't think there would be a buyer for a MSL team in San Diego with the Mexicans on both side of the border showing their loyalty to the Xolos. There's no way Mexicans are going to back a "gringo" franchise in San Diego when they have a team in Mexico.




Bobby Chacon

Before I let this go. The IBHOF doesn't focus enough about what went on out here with boxing. They're mostly a bunch of back east guys who fights in the arenas east of the Mississippi. Not many Mexican,let alone great Mexican fighters,fought back east. Napoles fought once in New York.Olivares never did.Kid Azteca with all those fights was never invited. New York's Latin fighters were comprised mostly of Puerto Ricans because of the demographics. Duran was a big draw mainly because he had some rivalries with Puerto Rican fighters. The IBHOF was put in Carmen Basilio's hometown. Italian fighters were always big back east. Personally,those back east boys are too cocky for me. I've always thought they've looked down their noses at what goes on out here.

[dagosd2000]

Kid Azteca is one I'm going to read more about. I know a brief synopsis of his story. The man fought a who's who of his era including fighting another guy I want to get more versed with in Cocoa Kid. I noticed Cocoa got inducted into the IBHOF but Azteca never did.

https://books.google.com/books?id=IiYzD ... ew&f=false

Have you ever read this book? A History of Boxing In Mexico: Masculinity, Modernity, and Nationalism

I saw the price as being a bit steep at $60 but am reading the book on google. It just misses pages in each story. There's one on Napoles which I'm up to now. A Saldivar once which I'll check out today. I read the Olivares one yesterday and was interested to see he was the highest paid athlete in the world in 1970 and apparently more liked at that time with Mexicans in LA then Mexico where it appears people either loved or hated him due to his lifestyle and what they say, selfish nature.
[/quote

Thanks Chris
You've piqued my interest about that book..I'm going to look into it. The salaries are often overlooked,especially with the Mexican fighters like Olivares and Napoles(naturalized Mexican citizen).They were pulling in as much money as any athletes in the world. Yes,Ruben was more liked by Chicanos in LA than Bobby Chacon who he had a rivalry with

There's a bill coming up for vote in San Diego re: land development in Mission Valley for a proposed stadium that will bring a MSL team to San Diego. I won't vote for it because the soccer fans in San Diego are comprised mostly of Mexicans. Tijuana has a team in Division A. in the Liga MX. They sell out every game. Many of the fans that go work in San Diego.Some live here or in TJ. Their allegiance with the Tijuana team,The Xolos,is almost fanatical. I don't think there would be a buyer for a MSL team in San Diego with the Mexicans on both side of the border showing their loyalty to the Xolos. There's no way Mexicans are going to back a "gringo" franchise in San Diego when they have a team in Mexico.




Bobby Chacon

Before I let this go. The IBHOF doesn't focus enough about what went on out here with boxing. They're mostly a bunch of back east guys who saw fights in the arenas east of the Mississippi. Not many Mexican,let alone great Mexican fighters,fought back east. Napoles fought once in New York.Olivares never did.Kid Azteca with all those fights was never invited. New York's Latin fighters were comprised mostly of Puerto Ricans because of the demographics. Duran was a big draw mainly because he had some rivalries with Puerto Rican fighters. The IBHOF was put in Carmen Basilio's hometown. Italian fighters were always big back east. Personally,those back east boys are too cocky for me. I've always thought they've looked down their noses at what goes on out here.

[chrisjs1985]

I agree there's a definite bias. Some borderline/obvious guys from the west don't get considered strongly enough yet there was a big Gatti push and even the years fighters were inducted suggests this too for all the slam dunk guys.

I have never been to Canastota, but I will be going in the summer of 2020 when Juan Manuel Marquez gets inducted. It's been on my bucket list for a while just wanted to wait for a huge induction of a personal favorite. Nearly went in 2014 when Trinidad and Calzaghe got inducted but waited out for Marquez. Rafael Marquez is on the current ballot and I hope will get in for summer 2019, though it would be cool to see him and his brother inducted together so I'm torn.

Reading the Saldivar chapter now and it's very interesting. I didn't know he was so private. I knew he had fallen apart emotionally but it seemed he didn't even want to be popular or loved by fans.

[dagosd2000]

I agree there's a definite bias. Some borderline/obvious guys from the west don't get considered strongly enough yet there was a big Gatti push and even the years fighters were inducted suggests this too for all the slam dunk guys.

I have never been to Canastota, but I will be going in the summer of 2020 when Juan Manuel Marquez gets inducted. It's been on my bucket list for a while just wanted to wait for a huge induction of a personal favorite. Nearly went in 2014 when Trinidad and Calzaghe got inducted but waited out for Marquez. Rafael Marquez is on the current ballot and I hope will get in for summer 2019, though it would be cool to see him and his brother inducted together so I'm torn.

Reading the Saldivar chapter now and it's very interesting. I didn't know he was so private. I knew he had fallen apart emotionally but it seemed he didn't even want to be popular or loved by fans.

Sounds like a good trip in store for you Chris.

A few years ago there was a back east guy who's father was gong to be inducted into one of the California hall of fames. He was a good guy ,but he was so wrapped up with what went on back east and his dad's fights.I think his father fought one time out here. He gave the impression that he wasn't even curious to know anything that took place in California. A good guy,but he danced to his own drummer.



I remember when Saldivar was on top. He wasn't greagarious like Napoles or even Olivares. He scored a big coup when he stopped Sugar Ramos to win the featherweight title . He died in Mexico City. He took to drink heavily after he lost to Jofre. He was in the throes of unraveling before that. What made him go that way I don't know.

[chrisjs1985]

I agree there's a definite bias. Some borderline/obvious guys from the west don't get considered strongly enough yet there was a big Gatti push and even the years fighters were inducted suggests this too for all the slam dunk guys.

I have never been to Canastota, but I will be going in the summer of 2020 when Juan Manuel Marquez gets inducted. It's been on my bucket list for a while just wanted to wait for a huge induction of a personal favorite. Nearly went in 2014 when Trinidad and Calzaghe got inducted but waited out for Marquez. Rafael Marquez is on the current ballot and I hope will get in for summer 2019, though it would be cool to see him and his brother inducted together so I'm torn.

Reading the Saldivar chapter now and it's very interesting. I didn't know he was so private. I knew he had fallen apart emotionally but it seemed he didn't even want to be popular or loved by fans.

Sounds like a good trip in store for you Chris.

A few years ago there was a back east guy who's father was gong to be inducted into one of the California hall of fames. He was a good guy ,but he was so wrapped up with what went on back east and his dad's fights.I think his father fought one time out here. He gave the impression that he wasn't even curious to know anything that took place in California. A good guy,but he danced to his own drummer.



I remember when Saldivar was on top. He wasn't greagarious like Napoles or even Olivares. He scored a big coup when he stopped Sugar Ramos to win the featherweight title . He died in Mexico City. He took to drink heavily after he lost to Jofre. He was in the throes of unraveling before that. What made him go that way I don't know.

I just read that his divorce was very painful for him and the real start of the downfall according to a friend of his. They said he became even more of a recluse in retirement and even said he disliked boxing and was almost ashamed of his involvement of it. Ramos said the old boxers had a tight knit community and they'd hang out, play soccer etc; but Saldivar just stopped. Apparently that divorce took a lot out of him. Some of the quotes he had made at age 40 sounded like he was depressed saying all he has is a past but no present or future.

He saved money and made good investments so his kids grew up not wanting.

[dagosd2000]

Chris
Thanks for the info.

[dagosd2000]

Two Renegades

Pancho Villa was not only Mexico's most famous revolutionary,but he also had aspirations to be a fight promoter.In 1915 when Jack Johnson.the heavyweight champion,was a fugitive because he was wanted by the law for violating the Mann Act,He desperately wanted to get back to the United States. His mother was ill.He was tired of living abroad in Europe. He was also getting old and fat and knew his reign was coming to an end. If he could scrape up enough dough,he thought he was in a position to make deal with the government to get a pass back into the States,defend his title,and see his mother.

Johnson settled as close as he could to the U.S. border in the northern part of Mexico. The state of Chihuahua located across the line from El Paso, Texas was his temporary stomping grounds. He was still the world champ, and his sociable nature made him a hit with the mayor of Ciudad Juarez, the state's capital.Johnson also got chummy with the biggest of the big shots in Chihuahua,Pancho Villa.

Villa liked cockfighting having a flock of bantam roosters. Between having a harem of women on the side,his interest with the Palenque(the cockpit,for his fighting birds )was as well known as his appetite for the flesh. Villa also liked it when two men stepped into the boxing ring to see who was the most macho. Jack Johnson was in Villa's backyard looking for someone to stake him for a fight.Pancho Villa was anxious for the chance to be a Mexican Tex Rickard.


But Pancho had a couple of problems. Money wasn't the issue. In 1915 Villa's hold on the Mexico as being the numero uno hombre was dissipating rapidly. Late in 1914 he could have seized power and made himself king or dictator or president if would have just acted. But he didn't see himself as a government leader. He wanted to be a general or in peacetime a minister of war,but he didn't think he had the capacity to be a politician. Fighting was more in his line. At the convention at Aguas Caliente, the revolutionaries haggled over who they wanted in charge of the country. Villa was absent. He was having too much fun in Mexico City chasing women and attending the cockfights with his avian gladiators. Asking a bunch of Mexican revolutionaries to democratically choose who is going to be the next "jefe" is like asking rival gang members to shake hands and be friends. Eventually,Venustiano Carranza said he would take over,and with his brilliant general Alvaro Obregon,he rode tall in the saddle. Of course Pancho Villa(and Emiliano Zapata) protested-violently. But Obregon had been tutored by German military men,primarly General Kloss,and when it came to taking on Pancho Villa in battle,Villa found himself retreating north. Defeats at Celaya,then Leon,and finally Agua Prieta had cornered Villa back to his refuge,Chihuahua.It was in 1915 that Villa and Jack Johnson crossed paths.


To make the idea of a championship fight a reality even more difficult was that Germany had sent the Zimmeran (he was a German diplomat) letter to Carranza saying that if Mexico would provoke a war with the United States,and if Germany would win World War I,Mexico would get the land back they lost to the United States in the Mexican American war of 1848. Talk about the impossible. But you could just imagine what could have possibly happened. Johnson and Willard are slugging out in a ring in Ciudad Juarez and a bomb is tossed into the ring. Carranza,who Woodrow Wilson recognized as the official leader of Mexico,now has to put his country on the line to fight the United States of America.

Jack johnson would have preferred the fight in Mexico,but the match took place in Havana. Jack Curley put up the stakes. After the fight,Johnson returned to Mexico. His mother had passed away in the meantime. Johnson crossed into the U.S. from Tijuana. He was arrested in San Diego.

After Johnson did his time at Leavenworth,he returned to Mexico. He opened a bar in Tijuana,fought some boxing matches,reurned to the States with his 4th wife and wrote his memoirs. He was still persona non grata in a lot of places. Joe Louis's people didn't want him around. Traveling to watch the second Louis/Conn fight his car slid off the road and he was killed.


In 1923 Pancho Villa was living comfortably on his hacienda,Canutillo,in the state of Durango with his wives,children ,and fighting cocks.He also kept company with some of his "Dorados"-his favorite soldiers.The government granted him a nice pension,and along with his farming and ranching enterprises was living the good life. On July,23,1923 on a visit to Parral to attend a wedding of one of his "Dorados"( and to see a girl friend) he was assassinated.


Villa's first wife Luz Corral said something about her husband once I think is worth quoting:

"For the housewife,the love affairs of her husband should be of no importance as long as the wife is loved and respected in her home,which is her sanctuary."


Mrs. Villa could have also married a fighter.


Pancho Villa

[dagosd2000]

The Other Coliseum

Hanging around the boxing gyms in San Diego,I met all kinds of characters. I guess it could said the same for gyms in any city. San Diego wasn't any different. There were the promoters,managers,trainers,and combinations of the three. They were either muliti talented,multi tasked,or just didn't want to split any more of the take with someone else. Some knew what they were doing. Others didn't have any idea. Some had the knowhow,but took advantage of it. They took as much money as they could grab with their dirty hands.. Most of the time they were the promoters and the managers that could have taught P.T. Barnum a few tricks of the trade in the art of the swindle. The pugs that had to take the physical beatings usually were the victims. When it came to being short changed,it was the fighters who got the short end. Most of the time they weren't even aware that the guys that were supposed to look out after them had their hands in their pockets.


I knew a guy that got into the fight game late. He was an Italian that owned a couple of fishing boats.His name was Vito Giacolone.If you say Giacolone in San Diego,you'll probably be asked which one. Giacolone is a very common name within the fishing community. Vito fished tuna,or to be more exact,albacore.What you eat out of those cans of Starkist are albacore.It's a smaller fish,but it tastes the same. There are millions of more albacore swimming in the ocean than tunas. Anyway, this dago Vito had a couple of small boats that were docked at the waterfront. Fishing is a tough life. In San Diego the industry was comprised mostly of Portuguese. Italians and a handful of Japanese filled out the rest of the races. By the 70's the government was selling off the fishing areas to Mexico and other countries below the border. Owners were hiring crews out of places like Samoa and Korea. The new boats they were building were massive. Pole fishing had given way to nets,but .it got to be too much.Too much money was being invested.The profits were shrinking to minnow size. By the start of the 80's the owners of the boats in San Diego had sold what they had left to the foreigners. Vito had cut his lines a long time ago

But it was all for the best. Those old tuna chokers like Vito couldn't keep up any longer. Their sons didn't have the fishing blood running through their veins like their fathers. The owners sold out to the foreigners and made a pretty penny. They had their houses.No mortgages.Their wives were content. The boys instead of dropping out of school in their junior year to go out to sea,went on to college. The daughters for the most part married within the race. What the former owners had to face was what to do with their time. Vito,for the life of me,wanted to manage fighters.


Vito was a common face at The Coliseum in San Diego. He rubbed shoulders with local boxing figures like Burk Emery,Doyle Millsap,and Ernie Fuentes. In time Vito had a couple of "hot prospects."But Vito knew nothing about the fight game except that he was a fan. I knew he had hired a trainer to work with his boys,but what I saw of the instruction had me scratching my head. It was mostly Rah Rah stuff.
"Hey kid you're gonna' be the next champ."
or
"Hey kid no one can beat you."
I saw one of those charges in the ring in a prelim. He had no amateur fights under his belt. He was stopped inside a minute. I don't think he ever won or fight and that held true for his stablemate. But in the gym the following week,his handlers were spouting the same rhetoric.
"Hey kid you'll get him next time."
As this comedy unfolded Vito realized that he better get out of the fight game before all the money he made fishing was going to thown out in the ocean like food for the sharks.


By the time Vito had changed course,I had also steered away from hanging around the boxing gyms. I didn't give much thought about Vito.Then one day I was in Little italy shoppping for Italian cold cuts,some olive oil, and fresh Italian bread. There's only one decent spot if you want to get the best Italian imported food. The Mona Lisa delicatessen on the corner of India and Hawthorn Streets is where the dagos buy the best parmigian, ricotta,olive oil,capicola,sweet and dry salami,prosciutto, mortadella,and cracked olives.Sometimes when I see all the salamis and cheeses hanging on strings from the ceiling I get a little misty.The Solunto bakery is down the street and they're the only ones who bake italian bread. As I was putting in my order at the deli counter for a pound of sausage i saw 'ol Vito standing in line.


We gave it the "hey goomba" thing and hugged and laughed and did the 'ol greaseball routine for everyone in the store to take in. But it was sincere and everyone knew we were "made" deli customers. After getting rung up at the register we went outside with an espresso and sat at table.After asking about the families and who was still around,I asked him what he was up to. He had that dark Sicilian skin,coarse peppered black brows and a full head of wire like hair that didn't need combing. Gray stern eyes,a thick nose,and a terse mouth highlighted a face that always looked like it needed shave. Meaty forearms extending to mangled calloused hands and fingers rested on the table like two big dead fish.
"So what did you do after you left boxing?"I asked him.
"I had a cousin in Rome who wanted me to buy a pizzeria,"he said in a thick voice."So I said 'what the hell' and I took him up on it."
"Did Maria go with you?"
"She didn't want to live in Rome. Stubborn Sicilian blood in her."
"I've been to Rome a few times. Where was your place?"
"Across the street from the Coliseum
"That must have been interesting."
"Why would that be interesting?"
"Well,you got to see it everyday,"I said trying to salvage something..
"You know I had that place for a year and I never walked across the street to go inside once."he said with huff. "I lived upstairs and I never had the desire to see what was inside."
I felt I shouldn't pursue this any longer.
"How was business?"
Vito shrugged his shoulders.
"I told you I was there a year. There was a pizza joint on evey block. I was the new guy and I couldn't never build up a regular clientele."
"So what have you got going now?"I asked him.
"I got an appointment with Bobby Difilippis.He says he's got a good fighter. He wants to know if I want a piece of him."
"Well ,I wish you luck."
"Next time I'll listen to my stubborn Sicilian wife. She seems to know what's best for me."



The Mona Lisa Deli in Little Italy

[dagosd2000]

The Fighter That Didn't Want The Championship,Maybe

The posters had been talking about the Jewish fighters. Well,there haven't been any in a long time. At least any good ones that I can remember.Before World War II ,when times were a lot tougher,there were some pretty good Jewish fighters:the Attells,Lew Tendler,Bummy Davis,Mushy Callahan,Barney Ross, Slapsie Maxie Rosenbloom to name a few. The one that stands out above the others was Benny Leonard who was the lightweight champ. Ask any old timers of the Hebrew faith and to a man they'll tell you Benny Leonard was the best lightweight to have ever stepped inside the ring. He had at least a hundred fights. He fought 'em all. In his prime(that lasted almost his entire career except for his forced comeback)he was practically unbeatable.


When I was a kid and began to follow boxing the only pugilistic publication on the newsstands was Ring Magazine. The periodical's headquarters were in New York City. The founder,owner,and chief editor was the self congratulatory Nat Fleischer. He stood about 5 foot and change and his loquacious rhetoric comprised most of the words between the covers. At one time Fleischer's rankings and who he considered to be the legitimate champions of the divisions, were engraved in stone. To me, his thinking was unpredictable He never renounced Ali as heavyweight champion because he felt a champion had to lose his title in the ring or announce his retirement.All the other commissions had stripped Ali of his title for not serving in the military. However,Fleischer always called him Cassius Clay,not Muhammad Ali. I guess in this case Christianity won out over The Nation of Islam.

Fleischer,I guess, had been around long enough to see all the pre and post turn of the century fighters. He always considered those dinosaurs better than what the current scene had to display He was always listing and ranking who was the best and who could have beaten who. Too bad the BoxRec forum wasn't around whe he was alive. Fleischer would have made guys like granberry,Il Duce,and kalan bow down at his knees.

When he talked about and ranked the greatest lightweights,he differed from his Jewish opiners and put Joe Gans at number one,followed by Benny Leonard. But when Fleischer or his following discussed Leonard's fight with Jack Britton,for the welterweight championship,it was a lead pipe cinch that Benny lost purposely on a foul because "he didn't want the welterweight championship."No explanation for that statement.Just that Benny "didn't want" to win that night. I grew up thinking that only because that's all I had read about that fight.And all I learned about that fight came from the lips of Nat Fleischer. But it never made sense to me. Why would Leonard sign for the fight,train,and then go into the tank?

Leonard and Britton had fought twice before.Benny got the newspapers' votes, Both were considered excellent boxers. There's nothing to see on film of Britton. There's a short clip of Leonard's fight with Lew Tendler. Can't tell too much from that. The outcome of their title fight was sudden and confusing. They say Benny hit Britton in the groin,Jackgoing down to his knees. This happened in the 13th frame.Before the referee could figure if it was low or begin a count ,Leonard stood over Jack and punched him in the head. Now it was a no brainer.Benny was disqualified.

Hearing it from The Ring,Benny was having his way with Britton.. Benny just "didn't ' want to win.So he fouled Jack.. He could have bitten off Jack's ear,but instead gave him a whack when he was down. I was as perplexed about the result as the crazy bugs who saw the fight in the Bronx.


A few years ago I logged on to a site (I can't recall the name right now)that had one of the New York papers round by round description of that fight. The writer at ringside was flabbergasted by Leonard's sluggishness. Benny was having trouble putting anything together. After 12,this scribe had Benny trailing by three rounds. All Jack had to do is stay on his feet. to keep his crown. Instead, he held onto his title while he was on the canvas. Everyone was shocked. Did Jack get fouled? He said later he wasn't.Leonard was pretty much silent on the matter. Maybe the gamblers had put this one together. Maybe Benny had a bet on Jack. Maybe Nat Fleischer just didn't want to admit that the "second best" lightweight of all time knew he was getting beat and took the easy way out.



Benny Leonard

[dagosd2000]

My Favorite Fighter's Favorite Fighter

I read an article about fighters that went to battle with Carlos Monzon. Interviewed were Emile Griffith,Nino Benvenuti,and Jose Napoles. it was a nice coup for that reporter to get these fighters in one room to talk about what they thought of the man that compiled a 5 and O record against these Hall of Fame fighters. Benvenuti was awed by Monzon's strength. Rmile said that he wished he could have fought him five years earlier. Napoles said he wasn't going to back up from Carlos and force the action. Jose looked pretty good for five rounds and was moving forward landing blows. But it was a time in Jose's career when he didn't have his heart in it much anymore. He trained for a short fight. It was a transitory six rounds with Jose not wanting to get off his stool for the 7th round. They also asked the three who were their favorite fighters. I can't remember what Nino said. Emile gave a stock answer:Sugar Ray Robinson. Jose came up with a name I had never heard of:Ciro Moracen.


Napoles said that Ciro Moracen had no equal when it pertained to boxing styles and skills I'm sure Jose had seen Pep and Robinson show off what they had. But I raised my brows when he left out fellow Cuban master boxer Kid Gavilan. So who was this Ciro Moracen guy?

Call me Will Rogers because all I know about him I read in the papers. Enrique Encinosa devotes a paragraph to him in his anthology of Cuban boxing,Hard Leather:A History of Cuban Boxing..The most information I gleaned was from an article written a couple of years ago by an "anonymous" reprorter.I'll post it for you. If you no habla espanol,click the translate icon.


https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... FHWC_9Jt-9

Very interesting. A fighter that got caught up with that tyrant Castro because he was a dictator,didn't have free elections.and wouldn't let any of the citizens leave.Moracen spoke out against him. He's imprisoned.Tragically he commits suicide in jail. Puppy Garcia,Moracen's ring rival was also locked up by the dictator. He was released in 1980 and settled in Miami. He hooked up again with the Dundee brothers who remembered him as being one the top contenders in the lightweight division. A shame that my favorite fighter's fighter never crossed paths with his compatriot, Mantequilla Napoles. I'm sure they would have had a lot to talk about,and they would have shared it to the world.




Ciro Moracen

When I clicked onto the link,it came up with the Spanish version. if you Google
"Ciro Moracen" you'll see the link. Click the "translate this page." His life should be shared with boxing buffs.

[dagosd2000]

Reverence For A Heavyweight

So who remembers Joe Louis's second career in the ring? Was he a good wrestler or a bad wrestler? We probably know something about his reason for doing it. He needed the money. Uncle Sam was after him pretty hard.We'd just as soon not talk about it. There's not much to say. Joe Louis's second ring career inspired Rod Serling to write the screenplay Requiem For A Heavyweight. Rod Serling always delved inside his soul for choosing the right words,or at least the expressions he thought were apropos. A requiem is a Mass for the repose of the souls of the dead. That's what Merriam-Webster says.

They came to the arena to see Joe Louis wrestle. They laughed and had a good time. A lot of black people came to see him grapple with his white opponent. It wasn't a racial thing. It was all in fun. It was one big party. It was pocket change for Joe Louis.


Louis did it for the money. He wasn't a tormented Mountain Rivera. He didn't wrestle to save his manager from getting whacked by the mob. Joe Louis wrestled to pay the tax man.The government didn't care how he got the money.Joe Louis didn't anguish.He didn't feel humiliated or ashamed. When Marciano destroyed what was left of him,The Rock went inside Louis's dressing room after the fight. Rocky broke down. Louis,eyes swollen purple and black,said through puffed lips. "Don't cry for me.I'll be all right."

Can anyone name anyone Joe Louis wrestled? It was all that fake wrestling stuff. They call it Hollywood wrestling. One guy is the good guy.The other guy is the bad guy.It's all rehearsed beforehand. During one of these pantomimes,Joe fell the wrong way, or the other guy fell on top of him.The result was Joe wound up with a bruised heart.His feelings weren't hurt.It was a physical injury. But that didn't concern the wolves that still wanted what was left to pick from his bones. Besides,Joe Louis had some fattening up to do. It seemed like everyone in his circle had bitten off a piece of meat. If it hadn't been for Sinatra,Joe Louis might have not have lasted as long as he did. Sinatra paid for his heart surgery. Sinatra,on the sly,gave Louis the money he was getting from Anheuser-Busch. Ash Resnick got him a gig as a greeter on the steps of Caesar's Palace in Las Vegas. I saw him there once.

When I was coaching football at Point Loma High School in San Diego,one of Louis's adopted sons,John,was on the team.The kid was kind of a quiet sort. I never engaged him with a conversation about his step dad. I wanted to tell him about when I saw Joe Louis on the steps of Caesar's Palace and how he asked me who I thought was the best heavyweight. I said,"I'm looking at him."

[dagosd2000]

Executive In Charge

Oscar De La Hoya left his mark as a fighter. Now he's making impressions with his Golden Boy Promotions.I looked. He has an impressive website that features his fighters,upcoming events,tickets for those fights,videos,a store where to buy collectibles,and an insight to his foundation that encompasses a charter school,a medical center for children,and numerous after school programs. The focus for his endeavors is in the East LA area where he grew up and learned to box. He's a role model for not only his old neighborhood,but for neighborhoods worldwide. He attended the West Coast Boxing Hall of Fame banquet to introduce inductee Robert Diaz. Diaz is the head matchmaker for Golden Boy.


Oscar De La Hoya never lost a fight to a Mexican national nor a Chicano. He lost pivotal fights with Trinidad,Mosely,Hopkins,Mayweather, and finally to Pacquiao. They erected a statue of Oscar in front of the beautiful new Staples Center Arena in downtown Los Angeles.


Oscar and his entourage were seated up front at The West Coast Boxing event. All eyes were on him when he entered the big banquet room. Everyone wanted to get close. Even my wife,who isn't a follower of boxing,pushed her way through to his table and got him to pose for a picture .I saw my wife amidst the fans and I just knew that she'd get what she wanted:a picture of Oscar. I saw the picture later when we got home. It was blurry and there wasn't enough light.I deleted it.I wish now I would have saved it. There's Oscar sitting there ,head turned around, flashing the shiest grin.

I don't think I'm stretching now.My wife wasn't bashful about asking Oscar to pose. She must have held the camera in her hands for a good minute trying to focus on his image. It was kind of surrealistic. Everyone around my wife and at Oscar's table patiently paused to let my wife finish. Oscar was so gracious. Call me a dreamer ,but I think when Oscar saw my wife with that little camera wanting to take his picture,he was back in East LA as a little boy.He knows with vicarious instincts what it is in the Mexican community in Los Angeles.. He didn't know if my wife was a national or a Boyle Heights born and bred.. It wouldn't have mattered anyway. He saw my wife with that little camera who was very excited to take his picture. His world stopped at that moment.He was back in East LA again as a one of the neighborhood kids. He remembers how it was and how it still is. I think that he always wanted to show his race that he was their natural born leader when he was in there with the likes of Vargas and Chavez.. He's still ahead of the rest.




Oscar De La Hoya

Oscar De La Hoya

[dagosd2000]

A Better Recipe

Sonny Liston,George Foreman,and Mike Tyson were three heavyweights who wanted to psyche out their opponents before they entered the ring,This intimidation was part of their mantra. But first have to possess the big punch to be a psycher outer. Ali tried to get into the other guy's head,but he wasn't a devastating puncher. A lot of the big punchers, including Sonny and George, thought they could hit Ali anywhere, and after first contact the impact would make him fold like a shot rabbit. I never went in for the bullies,and that's what Liston,Foreman,and Tyson were. If you called them out on that they'd probably insinuate you were a girly man or that you liked males.Tyson was the worst. He couldn't handle reporters especially after he lost to Buster Douglas.He'd get so wound up he'd threaten some wimpy scribe at a pre fight conference and call him a "white f----t." It seemed like his tirades drew even more fans to his corner.Reminds me of this NFL "Raider Nation" mob. Because the Raiders were the "dirtiest" team in the NFL that made them cool. Once the bully fighter's air of invincibility is polluted with a loss(usually a stunning KO)the scribes now want to land a few blows of their own in the papers.

After spitting out his mouthpiece and not getting off his stool in Miami ,and then later rolling around on the mat in the school auditorium in Maine,Sonny Liston was sent to the back page of the sports section.Ali emerged as the most high profiled athlete in history. Big George, after being counted out by Zach Clayton in Zaire,could only count on Archie Moore to straighten out his robe when everyone thronged at Ali's corner . George,like Sonny,had the stupidity to think he would knockout Muhammad Ali in two rounds. Mike Tyson,I guess did the logical thing , groping for his mouthpiece while he was on his hands and knees in Tokyo. He didn't look to scary at that moment.


After the second loss to Ali,Liston never really challenged again for the heavyweight championship. He fell back into that mob element that got him his start in boxing. I don't think he had that far a tumble to reconcile with that ilk. Mike Tyson,after the Douglas loss,was on a roller coaster hormone ride. Evander Holyfield and Lennox Lewis extracted what was left of his false bravado. I take my hat off to George Foreman. He sank to the nadir of despondence. He tried to convince boxing that he was still the same man he was once before by fighting five guys in one night.Then a soft looking pitter patter puncher,Jimmy Young, had Big George looking for an oxygen tank in Puerto Rico. But the George Foreman of today is not the man who glared into the camera in Zaire and sneered"I'm gonna' kill you."


Around five years ago I was watching my grandson Adam working out at the gym with a peer group of novice boxers. A harmless bunch,but they were having fun. One of the instructors came up to me and said that George Foreman was across the street in the parking lot of Costco hawking his "George Foreman Grill". I walked across the street and saw a big crowd gathered around,all eyes and ears,on the former heavyweight champ. Big George was all decked out in a big white apron standing over a long folding table with three or four of his grills loaded with hamburger patties,chops steaks,and sausages crackling on the griddles.Piled high next to his cookery were bags of buns,sliced tomatos,lettuce,purple onions, and an assortment of condiments. George was having the time of his life. He'd get finished cooking a burger,slide it on a bun with a spatula,put put all the garnishes between the bread and start chompin' away. Then he'd cook for the aspiring mouth watering customers."How do you want your burger cooked?Or would you like to try one of my special tri tips?"All smiles,Big George was at your service to make sure you were a happy satisfied eater.

I'm sure a lot of the men at that table were there to see the champ. Maybe later he'd sign some autographs.(If you bought a grill he'd put his John Hancock on the box).But what got me were the mothers,the old ladies ,and the kids.They acted like Big George was a big bald Santy Claus. They ate him up like a big cheeseburger. He sure didn't give the impression that he wanted to kill anyone.


Big George Foreman

[dagosd2000]

I Beat Sugar Ray

I've hung around gyms enough when I was in my prime.,but I seldom heard fighters talk about their former encounters. They've got their minds focused on what the next fight had in store for them.When Sid Flaherty brought Denny Moyer down from Portland to San Diego for Denny to establish a base camp,I got a little excited to hear if Moyer would elucidate about his past performances against just about every top welterweight and middleweight of the 50's and 60's.. He was a pug of a bygone era who was always on alert to step into the ring to take on anyone they put in front of him. A lot of that had to do with his manager,Sid Flaherty. Flaherty would sign his fighters on a moment's notice.He had Ronnie Wilson down here in San Diego.

He was burning Ronnie out.The kid was fighting ,it seemed like, every week. Wilson would finally end his career with over a hundred fights,but it was Denny Moyer's resume that was a Who's Who of Boxing.

Starting his career in his hometown of Portland,Oregon,Moyer was nurtured in the sport amid a family of fighters. Denny's older brother,Phil was a middleweight contender. Denny's uncle Tommy was an AAU champ who first instructed his nephew on the finer points of boxing ringmanship.


When Moyer blew into town,he did his training out at Flaherty's camp in Jamul. Flaherty's soulmate ,Danny Rodriguez,was Moyer's primary instructor.Moyer fought mostly at the old standby,The Silver Slipper, in Las Vegas. ("I could always pick up a couple of grand at The Slipper"quoting Denny). I would drive out to that facility in the foothills of San Diego to see the fighters workout. I remembered Moyer on his rise through the ranks. He had that "baby face" and looked like the kid if he knocked on your door to take out your daughter,you'd throw him your car keys. But by the time Moyer had arrived in San Diego, all the fights combined with a spirited amount of liquid spirits,he was a man fighting to pick up a quick paycheck. He actually worked a part time job busting tires at Goodyears not far from the San Diego Coliseum.


Denny Moyer had been in the ring too long.His skin had lost that youthful glow. Scar tissue clumped around his eyes. But Flaherty wasn't going to send a cash cow out to pasture.As long as Denny wanted to fight,Flaherty made the matches.

Denny wasn't a talkative sort. Neither was his drinking buddy Ronnie Wilson. I'd watch them workout together. Both were excellent boxers.But the non stop frequency of their fights and their susceptibility to bleeding from an opponent's glove had diminished their appeal for the big fight not to mention a championship bout.


I never got the details,but Denny landed a title fight in 1972 with Carlos Monzon in Italy. I saw Moyer sweat out the poisons at Flaherty's camp in Jamul. He looked sharp. I didn't know if he had anything left to beat Monzon.In his prime Monzon would have had his hands full. Monzon was tall and strong,but not the polished fighter. He came along at a time when there weren't any middleweights of the caliber that Moyer had faced when he was climbing the ranks. Rodrigo Valdez was the only guy worth mentioning.I saw the fights Monzon had with Griffith. The "solar plate" on Emile's noggin' was a telltale sign.


Denny didn't leave anything behind at Flaherty's training quarters. He didn't possess too much to at that time anyway. I remember one of his sparring sessions. I forget who he was working out with.,but the sparring partner clipped him a good left hook that backed Moyer into the ropes. Denny ire surfaced after that blow.He poured into the lucky puncher banging him against the ring strands. Denny lost his head. Danny Rodriguez had to step in to pull him off the semi unconscious victim. Moyer stepped back to the middle of the ring breathing hard,sweat running down his face,his T shirt soaked, glaring at the guy.
"I beat Sugar Ray Robinson and I'll beat Carlos Monzon,"he roared spitting out his mouth guard.

Of course Denny didn't beat Monzon. He showed some of his old stuff against Carlos. Moyer knew what he was doing in there.He was just an old old fighter who had fought them all in his day,and once beat Sugar Ray Robinson.



Sugar Ray Robinson

[dagosd2000]

Pavane For A Dead Fighter

Dames and fighters are a bad mix. There have been a slew of trainers that have preached those buzzwords into their charges' ears. It's not like fighters generally suffer from hearing loss. And it's not a question of deliberate disobedience. Exerting one's influence on a fighter to abstain from the creatures that were extracted from Adam's rib, is like coaxing a pyromaniac not to play with matches. But in the Bible these soft skinned beings became God's invention after He set the animals free to roam the planet.But God saw that Adam was lonely. In time a dog would be man's best friend,but God realized when Adam got aroused he wanted something prettier to insert his happy stick into than Lassie. Well,we know what Eve made Adam do,We've been paying for it ever since.And to think we gave them the right to vote! We almost had one for President!


Sometimes I talk about how fighters wind up broke and batty. But maybe if it wasn't for boxing in the ring they'd be fighting in a jail cell. Fighters are the most oversexed athletes in the sport pages.


When Marcel Cerdan was having his way with all the French and Italian fighters during the 1930's and the War years he was becoming the toast of the continent.He was also drawing attention to the boxing spin doctors in the Colonies. He was born in Sidi Bel Abbes in French Algeria. Can't call that a hum drum burg. He started fighting in North Africa. And while Humphrey Bogart was acting as Rick Blaine in his café in Casablanca(let's face it.It was all shot in a Hollywood studio)Marcel was running up a string of over a hundred victories. Well,here's the rub:Marcel ain't testing his mettle with prime fighters like Sugar Ray,Jake The Bull,the middleweight Rocky,The Man of Steel,and all those Black Murderer Row toughs that were waiting in the wings


Marcel was a hairy thick chested slugger that had only one gear: moving forward. He had a man's man face of the Gaul with the wavy dark head of hair and a robust demeanor, along with a uninhibited personality. His laugh shook the room. He was married to a good looking gal and had a son,little Marcel,and a daughter.


Paralleling Cerdan's rise to fame was another French bird on the wing:a sparrow with a powerful haunting voice.Her name was Edith Piaf.Piaf meaning "sparrow".Her parents were circus people and didn't spend much time doting on her. Her mother gave her daughter up to live with a madam in a house off ill repute. Edith was still a chick when she became a resident of this den of sin. In time she wound up on her own with a friend drifting through the Montmarte section of Paris, Edith would sing songs. Her friend held the cup. An entrepreneur who owned a cabaret was driving around the Montmarte one day and heard Edith's big alluring voice echoing through the streets. He offered her a chance to perform in his club.Her surge of popularity in time crossed paths with Marcel Cerdan. By the time they were racing towards their zeniths,Shakespeare began to write it's tragic ending.


They were seen everywhere together. It's not like with White people who sneak around corners. Their romance was for all the world to see,including Mrs. Cerdan. But this kind of passion goes away as fast as it appears on the scene. It's understood. When things start to get boring and routine,it's back to the patient wife ,and for Adam's rib trapping a new paramour.


But the script in this case didn't follow the usual path. The path that they'd knew would lead back to what it was before. Edith had taken a toll on Marcel.As least as far as his training regimen was concerned. He finally showed up in the U.S. He was good,but not draw dropping. He fought Tony Zale to win the championship and won decisively ,finally. Marcel returned to Europe with Edith in full view,fought a couple of journymen,and then returned to the U.S. to fight Jake LaMotta in the Bull's "good luck" venue,Brigg's Stadium. Jake was a tough guy,but the public saw Marcel still holding the title.

Well,what happened Marcel? You say you hurt your shoulder when Jake went to a wresting move throwing you to the mat. You say the left was gone.We know that Edith was with you a lot.Maybe even sneaking into your training camp at night. Stick with the bum shoulder excuse.


A rematch was in order. Jo Longman,Marcel's trainer, knew what was best for him.Get as far away from Edith Piaf as possible. Marcel went back to France. Edith had singing engagements at the Café Versaille in New York. But Marcel had left The Sparrow alone in her nest. She called her wounded eagle from New York and pleaded with him that she couldn't continue being alone in her nocturnal aerie. Marcel and a reluctant Longman booked a flight to New York. Then the Shakespearean motif. The big TWA plane crashed soon after take off from the Azores killing everyone on board.

The romance didn't end on Edith's terms. The unexpected drove her intensity for self destruction into fatal depths . Marcel should have listened to Jo Longman. But if he had what kind of story could we have come up with? Certainly no Shakespearean tragedy.



Edith Piaf




Marcel Cerdan