Rocky Marciano vs Deontay Wilder

[Cojimar 1946]

Was debating with someone earlier how the fight plays out, how do you see it over 12 rounds? Let's say the 1952 Marciano that fought Matthews vs the 2017 Deontay Wilder.

[Onetimeonly]

Wouldn't Marciano be a super middle? How could it happen? Shouldn't wilder be a cruiser anyway?

[Cojimar 1946]

For the purpose of the fight we will assume Marciano is somehow allowed to fight Wilder despite weighing under the cruiserweight limit, they give him a special waiver or something. He never weighed 200 as a pro and I would rather use the actual version than some hypothetical 200+ Marciano because we don't know how the added weight would affect him.

[DrDuke]

It would have looked freakish. As it has already been said, by the current standards they are in the different weight-classes. Boxing obviously has divisions for reason. Only imagine it: a little sturdy guy is chasing a much longer one. Boxing has progressed with the skillset level through time. People are growing, so to speak, through time too. Wilder is actually not a technician by the nowdays' perception, but he still has an ability to use his height and reach. Wilder is a pretty mobile and has a decent jab. Marciano also wasn't a technician even by the perception of his times, but he had an exeptional ability to break through and turn bouts into real fights. Of course, Marciano's punch would have been deadly for a guy of any size. So the question is, if Wilder has the ability to stay away from a small, but truly relentless hard-hitter for all the distance. Ironically today people ask a similar question regarding Fury in his upcoming bout against Wilder. Well, styles make fights, that's true.

[BoxBuzz]

I honestly think that a match between a Tyson Fury, Joshua, Wilder etc vs one of the smallest HW champs in history would be a mismatch. Not for quite the same reasons that what'shisname espoused, but for somewhat similar reasons. I mean I just think a good big guy vs a good small guy is going to favor the larger competitor. ON AVERAGE.....there are of course exceptions.


I think Alp would disagree.....but I think he disagrees honestly, and not with any goofy bias. I agree that Marciano and these guys, for all intents and purposes.....should be considered in two different weight classes. And that there is no "magic" about the HW division that makes it different. So if someday people are growing to be 7 feet tall on average....we may just want to adjust these weight classes.


That being said, I also believe that currently the "most efficient" weight class is around welter weight. The best welter pound for pound could probably be assessed to be the very best who have ever lived. And the heavier weights tend to be less efficient with each pound gained.....ON AVERAGE......with exceptions.

[Ambling Alp II]

Well Wilder has beat what is it now, 18 straight opponents who have outweighed him?
It's almost like a weight advantage can actually be overcome.
This time he would have to beat someone who is smaller than him.
In fantasy fights, the bigger fighter almost gets picked to win.
In real life, historically, a great smaller fighter going up against a fighter who is much bigger than him has won how often? Well just about every single time in real life.

So yeah, I think Marciano somehow would have a shot.

[Cojimar 1946]

How do you see Marciano dealing with the height and reach difference?

[jamamb]

theres a much greater natural size difference between wilder and marciano then there is wilder and wilders opponents

wilder is 6'7/83 inch reach, and showing up leaner then his opponents still averages around 225. a guy like stiverne or szpilka or arreola outweighed him , but i think quite obviously those guys werent naturally bigger men for wilder to overcome. they were fat bigger.

here there is a much more pronounced natrual size difference, with nearly a foot in height, 16 inches reach, and some good poundage too, with wilder around 40 pounds heavier still being in shape. its not just about size, but i think in this case, with such a huge difference and for someone with marcianos style, it would be tough to overcome

[Controversial]

Well Wilder has beat what is it now, 18 straight opponents who have outweighed him?
It's almost like a weight advantage can actually be overcome.
This time he would have to beat someone who is smaller than him.
In fantasy fights, the bigger fighter almost gets picked to win.
In real life, historically, a great smaller fighter going up against a fighter who is much bigger than him has won how often? Well just about every single time in real life.

So yeah, I think Marciano somehow would have a shot.

It’s not only weight though, Wilder was still the taller guy with the longer reach even when outweighed. At some point size has an impact, someone like Valuev would never had been a champ had he not been such a physical freak. The sheer size difference between Marciano and Wilder would favour Wilder. If we saw Wilder in the ring against someone of Marcianos weight and stature it would look like a mismatch.

[jamamb]

a guy 5'10, with a 67 inch reach, weighin in mid 180s on fight day. your looking at the size of a short and stubby smw today. and marcianos style just isnt the right one to have vs vastly bigger men who can seriously punch

wilder has mainly been fighting guys a good few inches shorter then himself , with shorter reaches, who probably wouldnt weigh much more then him, if more at all, if they were in as good shape. its hardly as if hes been beating guys who are just so much naturally bigger.

[keithmoonhangover]

In a 15 round fight, Marciano would chop him down. People are talking about the size difference and that works both ways. Punching down is not an easy thing to do well and Marciano would be coming in low. Wilder has been hurt by jabs in the past and I think Marciano would get to him.

[Tuan_Jim]

It's odd to go on about the massive weight difference, given that neither man would weigh the same were they competing in the other's era. In Rock's day men whittled their way down to solid sinew. In Wilder's day they lift weights and build mass.

So if it's Wilder stepping into the 50s, weighing about 210lb (if that), I think Rock chews him up.

If it's Marciano stepping into Wilder's era, I guess he would be an undisputed cruiserweight king who would study Spinks and Holyfield and RJJ et al and bulk up accordingly to make heavyweight. I still pick Rock, who showed infinitely more intangibles than the sorry, slovenly mob of Stiverne, Ortiz, Spiktka, and all those other memorable journeymen Wilder has been defending against.

[Tony1244]

Twisted but fun question. I'd have to go for Wilder because of the size as other alluded to.

Different centuries, different colors, different sizes, but here's what they have in common.

*They lose many rounds, looking mediocre, but always end up winning.

*Mad Power

[Seamus]

Why not ask how a Lightweight would do against Marciano ?

[jamamb]

lolz, ya, how 'odd' that people go on about size for a match up where one guy is 9 inches taller, 15 inches more reach, and 40 pounds heavier while still in shape

[Controversial]

Marciano is physically more on a par with current LHW champ Artur Beterbiev (5'11", 73' reach and 175lbs). although Beterbiev is slightly taller and has a longer reach than Marciano. Beterbiev must weigh around 190+lbs on fight night. If Beterbiev said he was fighting Wilder next are people seriously suggesting the size difference wouldn't be a factor?

[jas80s]

I am sure the Rocky would tell you that the bigger man just means more surface area to wail on..

Still, it's pretty easy to surmise that Wilder would look to work carefully behind a jab that would probably feel to Marciano as though it was coming from the other side of the ring. Not sure how a 180 pound man walks down a man with heavy hands and an 83 inch reach....but, would like to see it.

First big right hand has the strong upper hand...and two pretty awesome right hands in this one.

[tiny_acres]

lolz, ya, how 'odd' that people go on about size for a match up where one guy is 9 inches taller, 15 inches more reach, and 40 pounds heavier while still in shape

I don't enjoy your sarcasm.

[jamamb]

Marciano is physically more on a par with current LHW champ Artur Beterbiev (5'11", 73' reach and 175lbs). although Beterbiev is slightly taller and has a longer reach than Marciano. Beterbiev must weigh around 190+lbs on fight night. If Beterbiev said he was fighting Wilder next are people seriously suggesting the size difference wouldn't be a factor?

ya good point. it would be totally unthinkable that a guy like wilder or aj could fight a smallish lhw without size being a legit factor. i think rock was about the size of karo murat (5'10/70 inch reach/spent a number of fights at smw), sort of between todays lhws and smws

just for comparison to another lhw, sullivan barrera is 6'2, with a 73 inch reach, and weighed in the 190s on fight night vs joe smith. a man of this size wouldve been a decent sized hw 'in the day' but now is a lhw

total delusion for some here to say its 'odd' that people are going on about size in this case. ffs 9 inches height/15 inches reach/40 pounds wiehgt

[Tuan_Jim]

Marciano is physically more on a par with current LHW champ Artur Beterbiev (5'11", 73' reach and 175lbs). although Beterbiev is slightly taller and has a longer reach than Marciano. Beterbiev must weigh around 190+lbs on fight night. If Beterbiev said he was fighting Wilder next are people seriously suggesting the size difference wouldn't be a factor?

Do you think that two boxers being a similar height & reach makes them broadly equivalent in talent? Bert Cooper and Mike Tyson are the same size; I suppose they should have the same results against common opponents? Similar careers?

Roy Jones at 193 shook up John Ruiz, yet Hasim Rahman's right hand made no dent in him and Nikolay Valuev with a 90lb weight advantage never troubled him in any way. It's almost as if something more than height, weight and reach decides a boxing match that involves someone exceptional. Retards here scoffing at Rock remind me of the Boxrec know it alls who were absolutely convinced that Jones was doomed vs Ruiz--it's physics! they roared. Talent cannot overcome physics! Apparently abstract things like talent can overcome physics.

[jamamb]

jones was a clear favourite vs ruiz,, basically 2-1. most could read that match the right way

he wasnt facing nearly the same physical extremes marciano would against wilder. jones gave up 3 inches in height (marciano gives up 9!!), 4 inches in reach (marciano gives up 15!!), and probably gave away less weight then marciano would vs a guy leaner then ruiz

jones also had vastly better attributes (eg amazing speed and reflexes, superior mobility) to deal with a bigger man, one slower and much lighter hitting then wilder. jones could hit and get away before the size could be imposed. thats not rock at all. rock is coming straight ahead vs a far longer guy and is there to be hit. hes not super human quick like jones. and wilder is a serious puncher whose also much faster then ruiz

roy jones beating ruiz is a hugely different thing from marciano beating wilder. step ya game up bruh

[JMac]

While Marciano retired undefeated, who did he fight that was good in their prime? He fought mostly bum of the month and the big names he fought were all well past their primes. Wilder would be too big for Rocky to do anything and I'm no Wilder fan.

[Duran1970]

Gotta remember Wilders big but he isn't heavy...188 Rock vs 210? Wilder ... Those chicken legs wouldn't withstand the rocks relentless pressure.
Marciano TKO 7 Wilder

[jamamb]

wlder averages about 225 and mar was usually around 185. dunno why ppl who dont see size as mattering still feel the need to close the gap. would be about 40 pounds to go with utterly massive height and reach dfferences

mar would have to absorb a lot coming in...from a very good puncher. mar doesnt have a good style or attributes for negating very large size differences in the way a super fast or very defensvely good fighter could

size wise...its equvalent to wlder fghtng a small modern lhw or a larger (but short and very stubby) smw who brawls

[Yuzo]

when you box from a crouch, you are bending down and away from punches, so you force guys to have to reach to try to hit you.



and so when you are coming in, you are not so upright and face first, so you dont just walk into stuff.



when marciano is coming at you, he is coming at you from a crouch, so your reach advantage is being offset and so you dont get to just pot shot.

now when a big man and a shorter man are trading a pair of right hands, the shorter man has the advantage, because when he throws his right hand, he can go under the right hand the big man is throwing, but the big man cant.



thats how aaron davis knocked out mark breland.



so the more marciano can get you throwing and trading punches, the more advantageous, or lucky, he gets.

theres two ways to hit marciano with your right hand.

when he comes under your jab you can meet and scoop his head back up with your uppercut.



and when he comes under your jab you can chop down right away with your right hand.



marciano can hit big heavyweights, and big heavyweights can hit marciano, however, because they are so big, and because he is crouching down to the ground, the physics of throwing a punch become skewed for both. marciano has to punch up over his head and they have to punch down beneath their waist. ducking under the waist is banned in boxing for this reason.

i think the heavyweight who beats marciano is the one who can keep a jab going and grab whenever he gets anywhere near spitting distance. so, on those conditions, theres probably more than a few guys who can beat marciano. ultimately though in boxing a size difference is never so cut and dry and there are circumstances where there are advantages and disadvantages for both.