Post Your Scorecards

[scartissue]

I'm good, Counter. Glad to see you back onboard. I know what you mean about youtube. If I was offline I would think I'm shut off from the world. I'll probably get back into it sometime next week. Looking forward to watching the fights again.

[scartissue]

Time to shake the cobwebs out of this thread. Here we go with the first fight between Chris Eubank and Nigel Benn. Good fight.

Round 1: 10-9 Eubank
Round 2: 10-9 Eubank (Benn was winning this round on my card until Chris hurt him late in the round and then followed up well. Enough to nick the round.)
Round 3: 10-9 Benn
Round 4: 10-9 Benn
Round 5: 10-9 Eubank
Round 6: 10-10 Even
Round 7: 10-9 Benn
Round 8: 10-8 Benn (Benn scores a knockdown)
Round 9: Eubank stops Benn with about 10 seconds to go in the round

Total through 8 completed rounds: 77-75 Benn

Actual scores were 2 officials scoring 76-75 for Benn and the third official scoring it 76-75 Eubank. Good tough, close fight between two guys who really hated each other.

[scartissue]

Jimmy Bivins v Charley (Doc) Williams

Round 1: Bivins
Round 2: Bivins
Round 3: Bivins
Round 4: Bivins
Round 5: Even
Round 6: Bivins
Round 7: Williams
Round 8: Bivins
Round 9: Bivins
Round 10: Even

Total: 7-1-2 Bivins

Actual scores were 6-4 (twice) for Bivins and 5-4-1 for Williams and I really have to take all those scores to task. I cannot make a case for Williams in this fight. In fact, I felt overly charitable scoring 2 even rounds. Williams didn't help his cause on my card by allowing the smaller, light-hitting Bivins to push him around all night. I really liked Bivins in this fight. It reminded me of the bout between the light-hitting Ralph Dupas and the hard banging Charley Scott because, like Dupas, Bivins fought right in the pocket depending on a high volume of punches whilst ducking/dodging/bobbing/weaving right in front of his opponent. And remember, this was the 1951 version of Bivins who already had over 100 fights. I would have loved to seen him in his prime of '41 - '45

[scartissue]

Ron Lyle vs Stan Ward, 5 point must system

Round 1: 5-4 Lyle
Round 2: 5-4 Lyle
Round 3: 5-4 Lyle
Round 4: 5-4 Ward
Round 5: 5-4 Ward
Round 6: 5-4 Lyle
Round 7: 5-5 Even
Round 8: 5-4 Lyle
Round 9: 5-4 Ward
Round 10: 5-5 Even

Total: 47-45 Lyle

Actual scores were 46-46, and 46-45 (twice) for Lyle for a majority decision win. Now Lyle was 35 by this time and was coming off the flu I believe. Ward did well countering off the ropes and really should have forced his heft down Lyle's throat when he turned him to the ropes. Lyle's sharper punching won it on my card, but i always remember my reaction when I first saw this fight. It didn't show the entirety of the post fight sequence on youtube, but when it was aired live back in the day I remember Lyle celebrating to the max, even bringing in his family into the ring. I recall thinking, "Oh, yeah, I just scraped home against a 10 bout veteran. I'd really be celebrating that." I was quite sarcastic in those days.

[gilgamesh]

Muhammad Ali vs Ken Norton 2

Round 1: Ali
Round 2: Norton
Round 3: Ali
Round 4: Ali *
Round 5: Norton
Round 6: Ali
Round 7: Norton
Round 8: Norton
Round 9: Norton
Round 10: Ali *
Round 11: Norton
Round 12: Ali *

6-6, A Draw

The * indicates a swing round that I felt could've gone either way, but was only slightly edged in my opinion. If you had scored these rounds as even...which was a standard thing to do then, you'd come up with Norton winning.

[chrisjs1985]

Some randoms

Camacho-Rosario 114-113 Rosario
Trinidad- De La Hoya 114-114
Jofre-Harada I 144-142 Jofre
Jofre-Harada II - 142-142
Jofre-Legra 143-139 Jofre
R. Marquez-Vazquez III - 113-112 Marquez
De La Hoya-Quartey - 113-112 Quartey
Kovalev-Ward I - Kovalev 116-111

Marquez-Pacquaio I - 113-112 Marquez
Marquez-Pacquaio II - 115-112 Marquez
Marquez-Pacquaio III - 116-112 Marquez

Morales-Barrera I - Barrera 115-113
Morales-Barrera II - Morales 115-113
Morales-Barrera III - Barrera 116-112

Going to sit down and score Carlos Ortiz vs. Carlos Teo Cruz and Ismaelk Laguna II in the next few days.

Here's my RBR on Jofre-Legra

Round 1 Jofre 10-9
Round 2 Legra 10-9
Round 3 Legra 10-8
Round 4 Jofre 10-9
Round 5 Jofre 10-8 (point deducted)
Round 6 Jofre 10-9
Round 7 Legra 10-9
Round 8 Jofre 10-9
Round 9 Legra 10-9
Round 10 Legra 10-9
Round 11 Jofre 10-9
Round 12 Jofre 10-9
Round 13 Jofre 10-9
Round 14 Legra 10-9
Round 15 Jofre 10-8 (point deducted)

9-6 or 143-139 in points.

[DrDuke]

Damn, I often score fights, including rewatching and rescoring old fights, but I never save my scores. So now I'll write a one recent score, which I managed to remember.

Usyk vs Gassiev - 120-108 Usyk

[gilgamesh]

Some randoms

De La Hoya-Quartey - 113-112 Quartey
Kovalev-Ward I - Kovalev 116-111

Marquez-Pacquaio I - 113-112 Marquez
Marquez-Pacquaio II - 115-112 Marquez
Marquez-Pacquaio III - 116-112 Marquez

Morales-Barrera I - Barrera 115-113
Morales-Barrera II - Morales 115-113
Morales-Barrera III - Barrera 116-112

Just for the sake of discussion let me give my score on these.

DLH vs Quartey: 114-113 DLH (The 12th round knockdown and rally got it for him on my card)
Kovalev vs Ward 1: 115-112 Kovalev

Marquez vs Pacquiao 1: 113-112 Pacquiao
Marquez vs Pacquiao 2: 114-113 Pacquiao
Marquez vs Pacquiao 3: 115-113 Marquez

Morales vs Barrera 1: 115-112 Barrera
Morales vs Barrera 2: 115-113 Morales (we're in total agreement on this one)
Morales vs Barrera 3: 114-114 even (though I've never disputed the decision in Barrera's favor)

I probably have a notebook somewhere around here where I could note which round I gave to which fighter in a lot of these instances, but I ain't bothering to go looking for all that

[DrDuke]

Morales vs Barrera 3: 114-114 even (though I've never disputed the decision in Barrera's favor)

For me Barrera won fair and square then. I'd even say, it was the easiest fight in their trilogy to be scored.

By the way, I had Barrera winning Marquez, but I don't remember my score.

[chrisjs1985]

Morales vs Barrera 3: 114-114 even (though I've never disputed the decision in Barrera's favor)

For me Barrera won fair and square then. I'd even say, it was the easiest fight in their trilogy to be scored.

By the way, I had Barrera winning Marquez, but I don't remember my score.

Yeah. I felt Barrera won about 5 or 6 rounds straight in fight III. Morales took too long to get going.

Re: Marquez-Barrera - I had that similar to the judges. I had it 8-4 Marquez 116-111. I was at this fight and nobody, no fans or media felt it was all that close but I got a text saying HBO had it for Barrera. Sky Sports in England had it for Marquez by about 3 points I think. I've tried to watch and give Barrera everything but it's very hard to give him more than five rounds IMO. I felt it was anywhere from 9-3 to 7-5 Marquez.

[gilgamesh]

Morales vs Barrera 3: 114-114 even (though I've never disputed the decision in Barrera's favor)

For me Barrera won fair and square then. I'd even say, it was the easiest fight in their trilogy to be scored.

By the way, I had Barrera winning Marquez, but I don't remember my score.

Yeah. I felt Barrera won about 5 or 6 rounds straight in fight III. Morales took too long to get going.

Re: Marquez-Barrera - I had that similar to the judges. I had it 8-4 Marquez 116-111. I was at this fight and nobody, no fans or media felt it was all that close but I got a text saying HBO had it for Barrera. Sky Sports in England had it for Marquez by about 3 points I think. I've tried to watch and give Barrera everything but it's very hard to give him more than five rounds IMO. I felt it was anywhere from 9-3 to 7-5 Marquez.

I've never seen any controversy in Marquez vs Barrera either.

[PredatorHayds]

I hate my scorecard in the first Barrera-Morales fight.
I can’t remember exactly but I had Barrera really really wide.

I thought every round was really really close. But I ended up just edging MAB in pretty much every one.

[scartissue]

Here's my RBR on Jofre-Legra

Round 1 Jofre 10-9
Round 2 Legra 10-9
Round 3 Legra 10-8
Round 4 Jofre 10-9
Round 5 Jofre 10-8 (point deducted)
Round 6 Jofre 10-9
Round 7 Legra 10-9
Round 8 Jofre 10-9
Round 9 Legra 10-9
Round 10 Legra 10-9
Round 11 Jofre 10-9
Round 12 Jofre 10-9
Round 13 Jofre 10-9
Round 14 Legra 10-9
Round 15 Jofre 10-8 (point deducted)

9-6 or 143-139 in points.

Chris, here is my take on the 1973 featherweight title bout between Jose Legra and Eder Jofre. It had good moments early but eventually got a bit sloppy, but still a decent fight. On the version I saw I noticed there is about a 10 second delay between audio and video. You'll hear the Brazilian audience screaming at everything Jofre throws. Anyways, here we go, 10 point system in effect.

Round 1: 10-9 Legra
Round 2: 10-9 Legra
Round 3: 10-8 Legra (Legra scores a knockdown)
Round 4: 10-9 Jofre
Round 5: 9-9 Even (I felt Legra won the round but he lost a point for holding)
Round 6: 10-9 Jofre
Round 7: 10-9 Legra
Round 8: 10-10 Even
Round 9: 10-10 Even
Round 10: 10-9 Legra
Round 11: 10-9 Jofre
Round 12: 10-9 Jofre
Round 13: 10-9 Jofre
Round 14: 10-9 Legra
Round 15: 10-8 Jofre (another point deducted from Legra for again what appeared to be holding)

Total: 142-142 Draw

A lot of these rounds were close guys, so a lot of you can have different scores, but this was the way I saw it. Chris, you and I only really disagreed on the 1st and 5th rounds (not counting a couple of even rounds I had) and with the closeness of this bout, that isn't too shabby after 15 rounds.

[scartissue]

Muhammad Ali vs Ken Norton 2

Round 1: Ali
Round 2: Norton
Round 3: Ali
Round 4: Ali *
Round 5: Norton
Round 6: Ali
Round 7: Norton
Round 8: Norton
Round 9: Norton
Round 10: Ali *
Round 11: Norton
Round 12: Ali *

6-6, A Draw

The * indicates a swing round that I felt could've gone either way, but was only slightly edged in my opinion. If you had scored these rounds as even...which was a standard thing to do then, you'd come up with Norton winning.

Gilgamesh, this is one of those fights where I just never saw the controversy. I had Ali a clear winner on this one. Anytime I have seen a score on this fight, it is either razor-close or comfortably for Ali. Anyways, here is my take.

California scoring of one point for a round, 2 if there is a knockdown and no points for an even round.

Round 1: Ali
Round 2: Ali
Round 3: Ali
Round 4: Ali
Round 5: Even
Round 6: Ali
Round 7: Norton
Round 8: Norton
Round 9: Ali
Round 10: Even
Round 11: Norton
Round 12: Ali

7-3-2 in rounds but 7-3 on California point system for Ali.

[Seamus]

I had it 7-4-1 for Ali. Had he stayed on his toes and moved instead of laying on the ropes, as he did too often, then he wins all 3 fights clearly. I imagine working Ali's corner was extremely frustrating.

[chrisjs1985]

Marquez-Pacquaio I

Round 1 -Pacquaio 10-6
Round 2 -Pacquaio 10-9
Round 3 - Marquez 10-9
Round 4 - Marquez 10-9
Round 5 - Marquez 10-9
Round 6 - Marquez 10-9
Round 7 - Marquez 10-9
Round 8 - Marquez 10-9
Round 9 - Marquez 10-9
Round 10 - Pacquaio 10-9
Round 11 - Marquez 10-9
Round 12 Pacquaio 10-9

Marquez 113-112

Marquez-Pacquaio II

Round 1 - Marquez 10-9
Round 2 - Marquez 10-9
Round 3 - Pacquaio 10-8
Round 4 - Pacquaio 10-9
Round 5 - Marquez 10-9
Round 6 - Marquez 10-9
Round 7 - Marquez 10-9
Round 8 - Marquez 10-9
Round 9 - Pacquaio 10-9
Round 10 - Pacquaio 10-9
Round 11 - Marquez 10-9
Round 12 - Marquez 10-9

Marquez 115-112

Marquez-Pacquaio III

Round 1 - Pacquaio 10-9
Round 2 - Marquez 10-9
Round 3 - Pacquaio 10-9
Round 4 - Marquez 10-9
Round 5 - Marquez 10-9
Round 6 - Pacquaio 10-9
Round 7 - Marquez 10-9
Round 8 - Marquez 10-9
Round 9 - Marquez 10-9
Round 10 - Marquez 10-9
Round 11 - Marquez 10-9
Round 12 - Pacquaio 10-9

Marquez 116-112

[chrisjs1985]

Sat down this morning over a cup a joe and watched the 4th meeting between Emile Griffith and Luis Rodriguez. Excellent fight until the latter rounds when clinches became more frequent, but did not detract from the fight for me. I will totally admit that my score is wayyy off from the official and unofficial scorecards. 5 point must system, here ya go.

Round 1: 5-4 EG
Round 2: 5-4 LR
Round 3: 4-4 Even (I had Rodriguez winning this one but 1 point was deducted for a low blow)
Round 4: 5-4 LR
Round 5: 5-4 LR
Round 6: 5-4 LR
Round 7: 5-4 LR
Round 8: 5-4 LR
Round 9: 5-4 LR
Round 10: 5-5 Even
Round 11: 5-4 LR
Round 12: 5-4 EG
Round 13: 5-5 Even
Round 14: 5-4 EG
Round 15: 5-4 LR

I had it 71-65 for Rodriguez. I cannot come up with any way possible of favoring Griffith in this one. For me, Rodriguez is simply the busier fighter. I think his body work was really ignored in this one. Perhaps the key is when Dunphy mentions Griffith was catching a lot on his arms. i don't know. Maybe at ringside it looked different, but on youtube, even allowing for Griffith catching blows, Rodriguez was still the busier fighter. And as the fight wore on Griffith's body language told a tale. One could see him shifting and grimacing when Rodriguez was going to the body. These blows were getting through and telling. I'm always confident in my scoring, but I will admit that I'm obviously at odds with what was written.

I scored this one recently. I have my rbr scores at home (I'm at work right now) but I also scored for Rodriguez but a little closer. You have Rodriguez winning 9 rounds, 3 for Griffith and 3 even (due to a point deduction). I can see a case for anything from 10-4-1 Rodriguez or to about 8-6-1 Rodriguez. I think a draw would have been unfair to Rodriguez much like the third fight which I scored a firm 9-6 (I try to avoid even rounds so if I can't pick I will give the benefit to the guy who got the official nod as a tie-breaker) with a stronger case for 10-5 than 9-7.

Overall good fights between two greats but Griffith initiating a lot of clinches without throwing punches when tied up. I think the judges scored clinches and assumed he was doing good work but he was simply outworked and outboxed for the majority of these matches.

I believe my scores for each fight was
Fight I - Rodriguez by 2 rounds
Fight II - Rodriguez by 1 round (ironically the closest fight and IMO one you can make a strong case for Griffith)
Fight III - Rodriguez by 3 rounds
Fight IV - Rordiguez by 2 rounds (point deduction)

[Ambling Alp II]

If just one of the three losses went Rodriguez, way, both were be judged differently historically. Griffith always gets rated a few spots ahead of him at welterweight as it is. If they were 2-2 against each other, Griffith would be lower and Rodriguez higher; probably ahead of Griffith on most people's lists.

[chrisjs1985]

If just one of the three losses went Rodriguez, way, both were be judged differently historically. Griffith always gets rated a few spots ahead of him at welterweight as it is. If they were 2-2 against each other, Griffith would be lower and Rodriguez higher; probably ahead of Griffith on most people's lists.

I can respect and agree with Griffith rating higher overall in an all-time sense but I think Rodriguez was the better fighter. Just that he was very, very unlucky. Had he gotten a win in fight III or IV which he deserved he'd have beaten Griffith to a shot at the middleweight crown and being closer to his prime probably would have won it too. He was a great middleweight as well.

[Seamus]

Just re-watched Calzaghe v Lacy and it's 119-107 every time for me. It got me wondering this time because I don't know the answer. Could the referee have gone to Lacy's corner or to Lacy himself and suggest throwing in the towel because of the way the bout was going. Couple of rounds where I don't think anyone would have faulted Caiz if he stopped it.

[chrisjs1985]

I just watched Johnny Famechon vs. Jose Legra. At times it was a really good contest and at times a little on the sloppy side. Famechon starting well enough by moving and countering well. The commentator Harry Carpenter made a remark about it being an interesting matchup “A Spaniard from Cuba Fighting an Australian from Cuba in London, England”. Anyway, Famechon was doing well catching Legra lunging a bit but towards the middle I felt Legra really took control. He was robbed off what looked a clear knockdown in one of the rounds. Famechon showed a lot of heart and won some late rounds. It got sloppy around the 11th/12th with them fighting in a clinch. This is an area Legra never seemed to do well in his fights.

I scored it 9-6 in rounds for Legra and he did get an official knockdown along the way so 144-140 in points. I think the crowd was really behind Famechon and the ref was influenced because he didn’t win this fight at all despite fighting well most of the way. The ref was the only judge per British rules.

Round 1 Famechon
Round 2 Legra
Round 3 Famechon
Round 4 Legra
Round 5 Famechon
Round 6 Legra (red missed knockdown)
Round 7 Famechon
Round 8 Legra
Round 9 Legra
Round 10 Legra
Round 11 Legra 10-8 (knockdown)
Round 12 Legra
Round 13 Famechon
Round 14 Legra
Round 15 Famechon

I could see a round closer which seems a bit more reasonable than a round wider but not much else. Legra very unfortunate to lose the belt.

[scartissue]

Rewatched the Tony Sibson-Dangerous Don Lee bout today. Saw it live when they fought but now pen to paper and scored under New Jersey's rounds basis.

Round 1: Sibson (scores a knockdown)
Round 2: Even
Round 3: Lee (scores 3 knockdowns)
Round 4: Sibson
Round 5: Lee
Round 6: Sibson
Round 7: Sibson
Round 8: Sibson scores a knockdown but Lee proceeds to stop him on a TKO.

Total (through 7 completed rounds) 4-2-1 Sibson

This clearly shows how flawed the rounds basis was. Under the 10 point system I had it 65-65 at the end of 7. Of course it became academic in the 8th, but the issue is clear.

[scartissue]

Reggie Johnson v Jorge Castro II

This one really annoyed me. Not for anything that happened in the bout or even the atrocious decision. It was the fact that I was watching a telecast from Argentina that had a German commentary. Most of the time I don't mind that as I don't have to listen to any bias. But I was fast-forwarding the one minute respite between rounds just to speed things up and I was just missing the display of the next round. No big deal until I got to about the 9th or 10th and saw the round when I realized I missed a round. As it turns out, the video I saw was missing the 7th round. Here we go anyway. Castro the defending champ.

Round 1: 10-10 Even
Round 2: 10-9 Johnson
Round 3: 10-9 Castro
Round 4: 10-9 Johnson
Round 5: 10-9 Johnson
Round 6: 10-9 Johnson
Round 7: Missing round
Round 8: 10-9 Johnson
Round 9: 10-9 Castro
Round 10: 10-9 Johnson
Round 11: 10-9 Johnson
Round 12: 10-10 Even

Total (without the 7th round) 107-103 Johnson

Even if we give Castro the 7th it would be 116-113 for Johnson on my card. Castro was a clubbing type of fighter whose great success was based on a rock jaw, a great hometown crowd and very accommodating judges. But Johnson's pin-point punching won it comfortably on my card.

[scartissue]

Watched a tough 10 rounder today between Isaac Logart and Jorge Fernandez in a rematch out of Madison Square Garden. Matchmakers today should take note that to attract a fight fan it doesn't have to have a tag of 'world title'. Good matchmaking will bring in the customers like it did back in the day when Teddy Brenner was matchmaking for the Garden. Give me a good, well-matched 10 rounder any day over this 12 round junk for an alphabet title that's foisted on the public today. Anyways, here we go. NY scoring.

Round 1: Even
Round 2: Fernandez
Round 3: Fernandez
Round 4: Fernandez
Round 5: Logart
Round 6: Fernandez
Round 7: Fernandez
Round 8: Even
Round 9: Fernandez
Round 10: Fernandez

Total: 7-1-2 Fernandez

Official scores were 8-2 (twice) and 7-1-2 like mine. However, I'm sure our rounds were different. There were some close ones here and I really enjoyed the fast clean-punching.

[DrDuke]

My look at Bowe-Holyfield trilogy.

The 1st bout.
1: Holyfield 10-9
2: Bowe 10-9
3: Holyfield 10-9
4: Bowe 10-9
5: Holyfield 10-9
6: Bowe 10-9
7: Bowe 10-9
8: Bowe 10-9
9: Holyfield 10-9
10: Bowe 10-9
11: Bowe 10-8
12: Bowe 10-9
Total score: Bowe 116-111

The 2nd bout.
1: Bowe 10-9
2: Bowe 10-9
3: Bowe 10-9
4: Holyfield 10-9
5: Holyfield 10-9
6: Holyfield 10-9
7: Holyfield 10-9
8: Holyfield 10-9
9: Bowe 10-9
10: Holyfield 10-9
11: Holyfield 10-9
12: Bowe 10-9
Total score: Holyfield 115-113

The 3rd bout.
1: Holyfield 10-9
2: Bowe 10-9
3: Bowe 10-9
4: Holyfield 10-9
5: Bowe 9-9 (Point deduction due to low blow for Bowe)
6: Holyfield 10-8
7: Holyfield 10-9
8: Bowe TKO
Total score before the stoppage round: Holyfield 67-64