This is a serious question about the WBA heavyweight title

[actjac]

Their Super Heavyweight Champion is Anthony Joshua, . . . .The "Regular World Champion" is Manuel Charr who will be stripped I understand. . , , ,Jarrell Miller will now fight Bogdan Dinu for that Regular title. . . .The "Interim World Champion" is Trevor Bryan. . . .the court ordered mandatory challenger is Fres Oquendo (who has not fought in 4 years). . . .My question is what is the difference between the Regular world championship and the Interim title?. . . . what is the interim champion for and is that then the mandatory for which?. . . The Super title or the Regular title?

[DrDuke]

The answer is f**k WBA.

[Perseus]

Their Super Heavyweight Champion is Anthony Joshua, . . . .The "Regular World Champion" is Manuel Charr who will be stripped I understand. . , , ,Jarrell Miller will now fight Bogdan Dinu for that Regular title. . . .The "Interim World Champion" is Trevor Bryan. . . .the court ordered mandatory challenger is Fres Oquendo (who has not fought in 4 years). . . .My question is what is the difference between the Regular world championship and the Interim title?. . . . what is the interim champion for and is that then the mandatory for which?. . . The Super title or the Regular title?

The difference between them is one is a secondary title and the other is a tertiary title.
Both are garbage and ANY boxer in possession of either should be ashamed of himself for it.

The tertiary title holder can be a mandatory challenger for either higher belt but that's not always the case. The WBA doesn't like to follow their own written rules.
Usually the interim holder sits on that belt until he forgets about it or the WBA upgrades him to secondary title holder.
In rare instances the secondary title holder will the fight primary title holder to unify the belts. Immediately following the unification fight the WBA then makes the secondary belt available to any boxer that is still breathing....................................for a fee.


These belts exist because boxers keep paying the sanctioning fees for them.
Do not blame the WBA for the plethora of belts.
If the boxers are going to keep giving the WBA money for these belts why should the sanctioning body discontinue them?

[KiwiRider]

Joshua is the champion. The rest are seagulls fighting over cold chips at the seafront cafe.

[tiny_acres]

The answer is f**k WBA.

The real truth

[Lackeos]

The dozens of WBA heavyweight belts are worthless. Don't expend any energy trying to gauge their value. They're seriously putting the straps on guys who are like #30 and #40 in the division and allowing challengers who haven't fought in like... centuries it feels like.

[JimStone]

The answer is f**k WBA.

Amen

[greg]

..obviously there can be only ONE champ..

[Ruthless-RKO]

Is Guillermo Jones still ranked top 10?

If he is. There’s your answer.

After Briggs beat Zarate, he was ranked top 10 by WBA too.

Not just the titles are a joke, but their rankings are too.

[chinarich]

Is Guillermo Jones still ranked top 10?

If he is. There’s your answer.

After Briggs beat Zarate, he was ranked top 10 by WBA too.

Not just the titles are a joke, but their rankings are too.

I think Briggs was already ranked before that, he had a couple of the regional belts. Of course the opponents he beat were no better than Zarate, it seems a fighter having a pulse is the only prerequisite to fight for them. Oddly enough, not having a pulse hasn’t precluded fighters from maintaining or even improving a WBA ranking...

[candyslim]

Joshua is the champion. The rest are seagulls fighting over cold chips at the seafront cafe.

I could not have put it better than that

[fanman]

The dozens of WBA heavyweight belts are worthless. Don't expend any energy trying to gauge their value. They're seriously putting the straps on guys who are like #30 and #40 in the division and allowing challengers who haven't fought in like... centuries it feels like.

true. but wasn't much of golovkin's reign as "regular" wba champion.

[Enlightened-One]

The dozens of WBA heavyweight belts are worthless. Don't expend any energy trying to gauge their value. They're seriously putting the straps on guys who are like #30 and #40 in the division and allowing challengers who haven't fought in like... centuries it feels like.

true. but wasn't much of golovkin's reign as "regular" wba champion.

Excellent point!

Roughly half of it ( or perhaps slightly more) of it was.

[Lackeos]

The dozens of WBA heavyweight belts are worthless. Don't expend any energy trying to gauge their value. They're seriously putting the straps on guys who are like #30 and #40 in the division and allowing challengers who haven't fought in like... centuries it feels like.

true. but wasn't much of golovkin's reign as "regular" wba champion.

He actually won his vacant interim trash belt against an opponent with a boxrec rating of 18. Not ranking, but rating. The dude was ranked like #225. Seems legit.

[oogiebe]

Just saying, there is nothing serious about the WBA.

[Deleted_Scenes]

The dozens of WBA heavyweight belts are worthless. Don't expend any energy trying to gauge their value. They're seriously putting the straps on guys who are like #30 and #40 in the division and allowing challengers who haven't fought in like... centuries it feels like.

true. but wasn't much of golovkin's reign as "regular" wba champion.

He actually won his vacant interim trash belt against an opponent with a boxrec rating of 18. Not ranking, but rating. The dude was ranked like #225. Seems legit.

The WBA broke their own rules to make that fight as well (hardly a surprise), so they could protect Sturm. What we should have got, was GGG vs Sturm, or GGG fighting for a vacant super title after Sturm got stripped.

Saying that, just because Golovkin SHOULD have got a shot at the real title, doesn't mean we should view his reign as if he did. He won his first actual title against Geale, and defended it 9 times. That's it, said as a Golovkin fan.

[actjac]

Trevor Bryan is the WBA Interim Heavyweight champion (and also ranked #1 ? by the organization). . . . Is there any credibility with that position?

[candyslim]

Trevor Bryan's best wins are over BJ Flores and Derric Rossy. What do you think?

[HomicideHenry]

I guess the logic in this nonsensical bullshit (WBA) is that the Regular & Interim "champions" in theory are supposed to be the mandatory for one another--- and by proxy the winner of that match would be the mandatory for the "Super" (actual title) champion.

Who would have thought that boxing would become the WWE, at least in the sense of multiple titles (ie, World, Intercontinental, North American, European, Television, South Pacific, etc) and quite frankly ALL OF THE ORGANIZATIONS do this bullshit.

The WBC creates belts all the time just for the hell of it (ie, "The Money Belt", for the McGregor-Mayweather fight) and instead of Super, Regular and Interim they do Diamond, Gold, Silver.

The WBO has so many belts it's disgusting (ie, WBO-European, WBO-Trans Continental, etc) where even a belt exists for guys UNDER THE AGE OF 21 which has guys like Joe Louis and Jack Dempsey rolling around in their graves when they truly paid their dues proving themselves to the older crowd.

When you have TEN professional boxing organizations and they have at least 4 "major" belts, and there's 18 divisions, in theory there could be at MINIMUM (10 x's 18= 180) champions and at MAXIMUM (40 x's 18= 720) champions.

The LINEAL CHAMPIONSHIP is the only title that ultimately matters--- but here you have a new generation of fans who have been raised on this horseshit and will say, "The lineal title doesn't mean anything when someone else has the most belts," or some other convoluted drivel. No motherfucker, you are not "the man" until you beat the man. Mike Tyson DID NOT become the undisputed lineal champion UNTIL he knocked out Michael Spinks. Period.

That bullshit argument ONLY COMES INTO PLAY when the champion retires as champion, therefore the man with the most toys becomes the recognized champion--- UNLESS, the former champion uses the emeritus clause and his distinction as the "real champion" is put on the line just like when James J. Jeffries did when he fought Jack Johnson or when Vitali Klitschko fought Samuel Peter.

Tyson Fury will be doing that same thing against Deontay Wilder the WBC champion (or should I say their Diamond champion?) and the winner of that will be considered the LINEAL AND WBC CHAMPION.

[Deleted_Scenes]

The made up 'lineal' title is just as useless as the alphabets, given that there are zero rules about who a champion needs to defend against. It's far too easy for a fighter to pick up the 'title', then fight a string of no-hopers for years, or retire and go on a coke binge, yet still claim to be at the top of the pecking order.

Does Adonis Stevenson still deserve to be called 'the man', battering a string of corpses while Kovalev and Ward rolled the dice and fought each other?

Does Fury still deserve to be called 'the man', after failing a PED test, announcing his retirement, then going completely off the rails, meanwhile Joshua is fighting Wlad, Parker and Povetkin, and Wilder is fighting Ortiz?

If Fury hadn't signed to fight Wilder, and instead been content to feast on low level domestic opponents for the next 5 years, would you still be content to call him 'the man', even if AJ and Wilder had cleaned out the division and eventually fought each other?

If you want to call someone a champion, you need rules to prevent them abusing their position. Retirement = stripped, failed PED test = stripped, failure to fight a top ranked opponent = stripped, etc.

Lineal is interesting, but it's also bullshít.

For the record, Cyber Boxing Zone (generally seen as the authority on linearity, over the years) lists the heavyweight lineal championship as vacant. The champion retired. 1 needs to fight 2 to create a new champion - so the Wilder/Fury winner would still need to fight Joshua, otherwise the title is still in dispute.

[HomicideHenry]

I'm sorry but I just disagree.

It's embarrassing being a boxing fan these days when people just accept whatever is thrown out there--- Anthony Joshua has proven himself, yes, but AT THE TIME (when Fury was champion) he was shoved down people's throats.

I've never seen a guy in my lifetime who had EVERYTHING literally given to him on a platinum platter--- the IBF title opportunity that he did not deserve (at that time) let alone the Klitschko fight when Deontay Wilder more than paid his dues and been WBC champion for quite a while.

Does he, even now, deserve the 90K attended arenas and these absolutely insane paydays when it was originally Fury who cracked the Klitschko code? Not in my eyes. Outside of Klitschko there hasn't been a really worthy fight against someone "all in their prime", similar sized, or similar in skill set. People will argue about that but I stand by it. He's ALWAYS getting rim jobs from "fans" and the media and what has he really done? These same people will create threads like "Ali vs AJ, Who Wins?", and will say that he'd knockout Lennox Lewis when on Lewis's worst day he'd of kayoed both AJ and Wladimir Klitschko on the same night.

Again, the lineal title matters just like Michael Jordan's six championship rings TRUMPS LeBron James two rings. If the lineal title is "bullshit" in people's minds now--- and if that is the consensus--- then I ought to promote MMA because at least in that business the REAL champion matters and everyone else is just a pretender to the throne.

[Deleted_Scenes]

What Joshua deserves or doesn't deserve, is irrelevant. Fury WAS lineal champion, no question. I just don't believe a fighter should be allowed to retire, shít all over the sport and the fans, then return 2 years later against an Albanian cruiserweight ranked second in his own family, yet STILL claim to be the man.

You need a point where you can say enough is enough, you don't deserve to be called a champion anymore. CBZ and myself are in agreement. That point is retirement. The heavyweight lineal title is vacant, and will remain so, until 1 fights 2. TODAY'S 1 and 2, not some washed up freak show who won one fight years ago, then got popped.

Whatever Joshua has had handed to him on a silver platter, he's been in the ring fighting. Ditto Wilder.

Calling Fury a champion today, does as much damage to the sport as calling the Miller/Dinu winner a champion (or Charr, if his appeal holds up).

[HomicideHenry]

The CBZ has about as much credibility as RING these days, both sold out. Up until the last decade it was ALWAYS the precedent that whoever retired as champion AND CAME BACK not only was considered "the man to beat" but got first crack at the title holder.

People just want to revise history and the rules and regulations to suit their agendas--- Foreman was still the lineal champion DESPITE being stripped of the belts, and Lennox Lewis became the lineal champion when he beat Shannon Briggs (who beat Foreman). That stuff matters--- and once upon a time CBZ acknowledged Jack Johnson wasn't the true legitimate heavyweight champion UNTIL he defeated Jeffries in Reno, Nevada DESPITE "The Great White Hope" being retired six years.

THE ONLY TIME your logic comes into play is when the retiring champion NEVER COMES BACK (ie, Lennox Lewis, Gene Tunney) and then the man with the most toys is the "designated survivor".

[Deleted_Scenes]

The CBZ has about as much credibility as RING these days, both sold out. Up until the last decade it was ALWAYS the precedent that whoever retired as champion AND CAME BACK not only was considered "the man to beat" but got first crack at the title holder.

People just want to revise history and the rules and regulations to suit their agendas--- Foreman was still the lineal champion DESPITE being stripped of the belts, and Lennox Lewis became the lineal champion when he beat Shannon Briggs (who beat Foreman). That stuff matters--- and once upon a time CBZ acknowledged Jack Johnson wasn't the true legitimate heavyweight champion UNTIL he defeated Jeffries in Reno, Nevada DESPITE "The Great White Hope" being retired six years.

THE ONLY TIME your logic comes into play is when the retiring champion NEVER COMES BACK (ie, Lennox Lewis, Gene Tunney) and then the man with the most toys is the "designated survivor".

What if Lennox came out of retirement now? Is he 'the man to beat'? Does whoever comes out on top of the Fury/Wilder/Joshua scenario still have to beat Lewis before being declared 'the man'? What if Lewis turns down those fights and just beats up random guys from the local club? By your rules, and what you say are the lineal rules, Lewis would reclaim his title until someone beat him in the ring.

That's exactly why 'lineal' is meaningless. It's wide open to exploitation, once you gain the title. I'm not trying to rewrite history. I'm just saying lineal is bullshít. It's bullshít now, and it's always been bullshít. It's something for fans to argue about. In reality though, it means less than the p4p list.

The Ring tried to create some sort of a lineal(ish) title, but with rules to prevent exploitation. It's not perfect, but it's better than the alternative. They just need to do away with the 1 vs 3 matchups. TBRB might be the best we have, although a few of their rankings raise an eyebrow sometimes.

Looking at heavyweight right now, you have two active, dominant champions. Joshua and Wilder. Until they fight each other, nobody deserves to be called 'the man'. Then after that, you probably have Ortiz and Povetkin.

Fury failed a drug test, retired, went on a coke binge, ballooned in weight, then comes back and looks like utter shít, against two club fighters. That is not a champion, and to suggest he is, to call him lineal champion, just makes a complete laughing stock of the sport we love.

Fair play if he earns that right again. If he beats Wilder, he becomes one of the top two, then Fury vs Joshua decides the true champion. Just don't disrespect the sport, by legitimising his phony claims now. He was the man. He threw it away. That's on him. If France decide not to enter the next World Cup, they don't get to return in 2026 and call themselves defending champions. The sport moves on while they're sitting it out. Same with boxing.

[HomicideHenry]

In that scenario (what if Lewis came back) it'd work like this: Lewis uses the emeritus clause, and he's automatically the #1 contender. Considering his clout I would like to think ANY of the champions would want to fight him--- especially at this stage of life considering just how far removed he is from the title (15 years), and I don't know of any promoter who wouldn't want to make THAT fight. So he'd certainly be in demand.

I would argue, though, that because he's been gone for more than a decade his lineal champion claim would only qualify him for the contender status and nothing else--- so the logic ought to be IF a guy is gone for more than five-six years he loses the "real champion" distinction. After all, historical precedent shows Jack Johnson wasn't considered to be the rightful true champion UNTIL he beat Jeffries who was six years removed from the title.

As for this sport--- if it can be called that in literal truth for a wide variety of reasons--- not being a laughingstock, I'd argue that between the bullshit decisions, multiple belts, way too many weight divisions, ridiculous rating systems, ridiculously strict and weak state commissions and promoters getting away with all sorts of things that is far and away worse than a comebacking champion fighting the present title holder for the "lineal championship".