Usyk vs Joshua who would win?

[HomicideHenry]

Joshua inside of five rounds.

Usyk's going to be made into cannon fodder by team Hearn. Safe matchmaking for the super heavyweights by feeding them Usyk.

[Heretic]

Holy sh*t, as if there's a huge gap between Briedis, Gassiev and the likes of Brewster, Sanders, etc, who dropped and/or stopped Wlad.

There is a gap of 30-50 pounds.

Sanders was 225 lbs, when he KOed Wlad, Brewster - 226. Rehydrated Usyk will obiously move beyond 200 limit. There won't be even a 30 gap.

Briedis was 214 when he fought against Charr. The gap is not as big as you think. Usyk would probably weight around 220 if he had few fights at HW before AJ.

[Heretic]

Usyk would have pretty good chance to outbox and win on points against AJ. AJ would of course have punchers chance in the fight. I see it as 50/50 type of matchup.

Cruiser has been really good and competitive for many years now. Being head and shoulders above everyone else in the division is really impressive. The modern cruisers are pretty big too. Most of the guys who move up to HW fight around 215-220 range.

[dagilechia]

before i have seen Joshua vs Usyk as 50/50 fight, now i'd favour Joshua

[jamamb]

look at how ripped usyk is weighing in at around 200. and i have to think thats being dehydrated to cut to that weight too

how many hws would be much heavier then that if they got ripped to the same extent and cut weight too? only the very biggest imo

no doubt he would be facing significant disparities against the guys like aj and fury etc, but hes not that small compared to a lot of hws who have contended and even won belts

even luis ortiz was listed by showtime as being the same height and reach as usyk, and clearly luis at around 240 is still 20+ pounds away from being as ripped. similar with a guy like parker. and povetkin etc. i do think in the end the huge guys guys at the top would get to him, but he can do well still and be among the next best

[Heretic]

the elite giants are too big and strong for usyk, but i think he can be one of the next best guys, better then the likes of parker. also i think hws are likely to force usyk into the approach that is most effective for him: moving on the back foot rather then taking the lead

tbh, aside from the biggest few guys, there are loads of hw contenders in recent years who i think arent far naturally bigger then usyk (6'3/78/ripped at a dehydrated 200) when you account for artifical flab weight:

-joe parker
-kubrat pulev
-luis ortiz (showtime gave him at the same height and reach as usyk and easily has 20+ pounds of flab)
-alex povetkin
-david haye
-ruslan chagaev
-bermane stiverne
-carlos takam
-derek chisora
-bryant jennings
-thomas admaek
-andy ruiz jr
-eddie chambers (lost at cruiser to usyk victim thabiso mchunu)-mike perez
-adam kownacki
-artur szpilka
-chris arreola
-vach glaskov
-etc

and what would a guy like dyl whyte, with very similar height and reach to usyk, weigh if he were as ripped as usyk? maybe more in the low 220s then high 240s im thinking. i dont think a guy like whyte is naturally far bigger then usyk.

tbf, none of these guys were absolute top hws, but a few won titles and some like povetkin and ortiz were probably among the top 3-5 for a while. i can see the same for usyk, not bettering the elite giants, but being among the next best.

I agree with most of this post with two exceptions.

Chisora is actually pretty big dude. Hes lowest fight weight was 235 against Gerber. He usually fights around 250.

Another big dude... Pulev. He was looking pretty lean against Fury at 240. Lowest fight weight of 238 against Oloukun.

I think that both guys are noticeably bigger than Usyk.

[jamamb]

maybe on pulev

chisora though, ya hes thick framed, but even at his lowest he simply isnt comparable in fat levels to what usyk is weighing in at 200 (prob actually more like 210-215 after rehydrating) thats not to say hes not naturally bigger, but even at 235 he is needing to drop more weight to reach comparable body fat level to what usyk is doing to make cw

derrick still doesnt really have an ab or rib to be seen. if usyk got the same fat and was fully hydrated, id bet hed be into the mid 220s.

[Enlightened-One]

I can’t help thinking that Usyk needs to face a few legitimate heavyweights that can test his chin in order to determine whether the Ukraine can cope with heavier blows than what he’s normally accustomed to.

Tony Bellew was never a fully-fledged heavyweight and the Brit never beat one either. The ‘Bomber’ had to lose around 40lbs in order to achieve the 200lbs cruiserweight limit for last weekend’s bout. I’m not saying that this unduly affected the outcome of the fight, but no one should pretend that this was Usyk proving himself at heavyweight either.

For sure, Oleksandr can gain a certain amount of weight to be regarded as a fully-fledged heavyweight, but surely he needs to acclimatise himself to facing bigger men that are willing to walk through his shots, whilst employing rough-house tactics, in order to land their own heavier blows.

Even though I feel that the Ukraine is a supremely gifted fighter, I still think it’s too premature to speculate on the outcome of a potential bout between Usyk and Joshua, since this fight won't happen any sooner than the second half of 2020 (at the earliest).

People should refrain from prematurely granting Oleksandr Usyk an honorary rite of passage to being regarded as the future king of the heavyweights, based purely on his victories over 200lb-ers.

Perhaps I’m being unreasonable and people will be deeply offended by this hideously outrageous post, so I apologise in advance for any offence caused

[ValMar]

Skills/mobility against strength/power ? Nobody knows.............
Ali defeated Foreman, but Spinks has been defeated by Tyson.

[Onetimeonly]

Spinks certainly didn't have a mobility advantage with two shot knees against the very quick Tyson.

[ValMar]

Spinks certainly didn't have a mobility advantage with two shot knees against the very quick Tyson.

OMG, it was thirty years ago, I had a feeling that Spinks had been a very mobile HW. I might be wrong, of course, but this is only the example.

[Onetimeonly]

Spinks certainly didn't have a mobility advantage with two shot knees against the very quick Tyson.

OMG, it was thirty years ago, I had a feeling that Spinks had been a very mobile HW. I might be wrong, of course, but this is only the example.

I remember it vividly. He was a very mobile fighter. By the time he faced Tyson he had two bad knees. That's why he retired.

[ValMar]

Spinks certainly didn't have a mobility advantage with two shot knees against the very quick Tyson.

OMG, it was thirty years ago, I had a feeling that Spinks had been a very mobile HW. I might be wrong, of course, but this is only the example.

I remember it vividly. He was a very mobile fighter. By the time he faced Tyson he had two bad knees. That's why he retired.

More than thirty years I have been convicted that Spinks retired because of destroying defeat................

[oogiebe]

OMG, it was thirty years ago, I had a feeling that Spinks had been a very mobile HW. I might be wrong, of course, but this is only the example.

I remember it vividly. He was a very mobile fighter. By the time he faced Tyson he had two bad knees. That's why he retired.

More than thirty years I have been convicted that Spinks retired because of destroying defeat................

I always thought that Tyson put Spinks in retirement as well. Spinks lost his taste for the ring.

[Mexi-Box]

I can’t help thinking that Usyk needs to face a few legitimate heavyweights that can test his chin in order to determine whether the Ukraine can cope with heavier blows than what he’s normally accustomed to.

Tony Bellew was never a fully-fledged heavyweight and the Brit never beat one either. The ‘Bomber’ had to lose around 40lbs in order to achieve the 200lbs cruiserweight limit for last weekend’s bout. I’m not saying that this unduly affected the outcome of the fight, but no one should pretend that this was Usyk proving himself at heavyweight either.

For sure, Oleksandr can gain a certain amount of weight to be regarded as a fully-fledged heavyweight, but surely he needs to acclimatise himself to facing bigger men that are willing to walk through his shots, whilst employing rough-house tactics, in order to land their own heavier blows.

Even though I feel that the Ukraine is a supremely gifted fighter, I still think it’s too premature to speculate on the outcome of a potential bout between Usyk and Joshua, since this fight won't happen any sooner than the second half of 2020 (at the earliest).

People should refrain from prematurely granting Oleksandr Usyk an honorary rite of passage to being regarded as the future king of the heavyweights, based purely on his victories over 200lb-ers.

Perhaps I’m being unreasonable and people will be deeply offended by this hideously outrageous post, so I apologise in advance for any offence caused

He already fought Gassiev, Briedis, and Huck. Briedis and Huck have both ventured and been competitive at HW. Gassiev hits hard enough to stop any HW. Not sure what the hell else you want.

Also, Michael Hunter is making noise at HW too. These guys Usyk beat are HW's that drain down to make CW.

[oogiebe]

I can’t help thinking that Usyk needs to face a few legitimate heavyweights that can test his chin in order to determine whether the Ukraine can cope with heavier blows than what he’s normally accustomed to.

Tony Bellew was never a fully-fledged heavyweight and the Brit never beat one either. The ‘Bomber’ had to lose around 40lbs in order to achieve the 200lbs cruiserweight limit for last weekend’s bout. I’m not saying that this unduly affected the outcome of the fight, but no one should pretend that this was Usyk proving himself at heavyweight either.

For sure, Oleksandr can gain a certain amount of weight to be regarded as a fully-fledged heavyweight, but surely he needs to acclimatise himself to facing bigger men that are willing to walk through his shots, whilst employing rough-house tactics, in order to land their own heavier blows.

Even though I feel that the Ukraine is a supremely gifted fighter, I still think it’s too premature to speculate on the outcome of a potential bout between Usyk and Joshua, since this fight won't happen any sooner than the second half of 2020 (at the earliest).

People should refrain from prematurely granting Oleksandr Usyk an honorary rite of passage to being regarded as the future king of the heavyweights, based purely on his victories over 200lb-ers...

I'm skeptical that Usyk can make adjustments to have real success at heavyweight. I'm not doubting his skills, just his build and the current size and strength of the top 5/8 HW's in the world. It would be quite a remarkable feat if he does it, even if he comes in at 215, which I suspect would be the case.

Perhaps I’m being unreasonable and people will be deeply offended by this hideously outrageous post, so I apologise in advance for any offence caused

He already fought Gassiev, Briedis, and Huck. Briedis and Huck have both ventured and been competitive at HW. Gassiev hits hard enough to stop any HW. Not sure what the hell else you want.

Also, Michael Hunter is making noise at HW too. These guys Usyk beat are HW's that drain down to make CW.

[oogiebe]

I can’t help thinking that Usyk needs to face a few legitimate heavyweights that can test his chin in order to determine whether the Ukraine can cope with heavier blows than what he’s normally accustomed to.

Tony Bellew was never a fully-fledged heavyweight and the Brit never beat one either. The ‘Bomber’ had to lose around 40lbs in order to achieve the 200lbs cruiserweight limit for last weekend’s bout. I’m not saying that this unduly affected the outcome of the fight, but no one should pretend that this was Usyk proving himself at heavyweight either.

For sure, Oleksandr can gain a certain amount of weight to be regarded as a fully-fledged heavyweight, but surely he needs to acclimatise himself to facing bigger men that are willing to walk through his shots, whilst employing rough-house tactics, in order to land their own heavier blows.

Even though I feel that the Ukraine is a supremely gifted fighter, I still think it’s too premature to speculate on the outcome of a potential bout between Usyk and Joshua, since this fight won't happen any sooner than the second half of 2020 (at the earliest).

People should refrain from prematurely granting Oleksandr Usyk an honorary rite of passage to being regarded as the future king of the heavyweights, based purely on his victories over 200lb-ers...

Not to take anything away from Usyk, but his frame isn't big enough to carry 215 lbs into a hw match, without some PED help. I'm doubtful he can have any real success against the top 5, which if he cannot, it's not worth making the move.

I'm skeptical that Usyk can make adjustments to have real success at heavyweight. I'm not doubting his skills, just his build and the current size and strength of the top 5/8 HW's in the world. It would be quite a remarkable feat if he does it, even if he comes in at 215, which I suspect would be the case.

Perhaps I’m being unreasonable and people will be deeply offended by this hideously outrageous post, so I apologise in advance for any offence caused

He already fought Gassiev, Briedis, and Huck. Briedis and Huck have both ventured and been competitive at HW. Gassiev hits hard enough to stop any HW. Not sure what the hell else you want.

Also, Michael Hunter is making noise at HW too. These guys Usyk beat are HW's that drain down to make CW.

Not to take anything away from Usyk, but his frame isn't big enough to carry 215 lbs into a hw match, without some PED help. I'm doubtful he can have any real success against the top 5, which if he cannot, it's not worth making the move.

I'm skeptical that Usyk can make adjustments to have real success at heavyweight. I'm not doubting his skills, just his build and the current size and strength of the top 5/8 HW's in the world. It would be quite a remarkable feat if he does it, even if he comes in at 215, which I suspect would be the case.

[Onetimeonly]

OMG, it was thirty years ago, I had a feeling that Spinks had been a very mobile HW. I might be wrong, of course, but this is only the example.

I remember it vividly. He was a very mobile fighter. By the time he faced Tyson he had two bad knees. That's why he retired.

More than thirty years I have been convicted that Spinks retired because of destroying defeat................

There you go. I'm happy to help. Amazing over 30 years ago you didn't notice the knee brace.

[Onetimeonly]

I remember it vividly. He was a very mobile fighter. By the time he faced Tyson he had two bad knees. That's why he retired.

More than thirty years I have been convicted that Spinks retired because of destroying defeat................

I always thought that Tyson put Spinks in retirement as well. Spinks lost his taste for the ring.

It was his cash out fight. I have no doubt he would have come back if his knees weren't ruined.

[Mexi-Box]

He already fought Gassiev, Briedis, and Huck. Briedis and Huck have both ventured and been competitive at HW. Gassiev hits hard enough to stop any HW. Not sure what the hell else you want.

Also, Michael Hunter is making noise at HW too. These guys Usyk beat are HW's that drain down to make CW.

Not to take anything away from Usyk, but his frame isn't big enough to carry 215 lbs into a hw match, without some PED help. I'm doubtful he can have any real success against the top 5, which if he cannot, it's not worth making the move.

I'm skeptical that Usyk can make adjustments to have real success at heavyweight. I'm not doubting his skills, just his build and the current size and strength of the top 5/8 HW's in the world. It would be quite a remarkable feat if he does it, even if he comes in at 215, which I suspect would be the case.

I'm pretty sure he rehydrates that much. I don't understand where all this *I'm unsure* is coming from. Usyk was schooling big dudes before. He's a lot better against big, hulking guys than smaller, athletic dudes.

As I said, the guys he's beating dominantly at CW are easily able to become top 10 HW's. I mean Briedis brutally stopped Charr, Hunter is doing really well at HW, Bellew stopped Haye, and I wouldn't doubt Gassiev could beat guys like Whyte at HW.

[oogiebe]

Not to take anything away from Usyk, but his frame isn't big enough to carry 215 lbs into a hw match, without some PED help. I'm doubtful he can have any real success against the top 5, which if he cannot, it's not worth making the move.

I'm skeptical that Usyk can make adjustments to have real success at heavyweight. I'm not doubting his skills, just his build and the current size and strength of the top 5/8 HW's in the world. It would be quite a remarkable feat if he does it, even if he comes in at 215, which I suspect would be the case.

I'm pretty sure he rehydrates that much. I don't understand where all this *I'm unsure* is coming from. Usyk was schooling big dudes before. He's a lot better against big, hulking guys than smaller, athletic dudes.

As I said, the guys he's beating dominantly at CW are easily able to become top 10 HW's. I mean Briedis brutally stopped Charr, Hunter is doing really well at HW, Bellew stopped Haye, and I wouldn't doubt Gassiev could beat guys like Whyte at HW.

I don't find any of that compelling. If after he fights as a HW, I may change my mind, but nothing makes me think he'd be overly successful moving up. Hunter? Really?

[Mexi-Box]

Not to take anything away from Usyk, but his frame isn't big enough to carry 215 lbs into a hw match, without some PED help. I'm doubtful he can have any real success against the top 5, which if he cannot, it's not worth making the move.

I'm skeptical that Usyk can make adjustments to have real success at heavyweight. I'm not doubting his skills, just his build and the current size and strength of the top 5/8 HW's in the world. It would be quite a remarkable feat if he does it, even if he comes in at 215, which I suspect would be the case.

I'm pretty sure he rehydrates that much. I don't understand where all this *I'm unsure* is coming from. Usyk was schooling big dudes before. He's a lot better against big, hulking guys than smaller, athletic dudes.

As I said, the guys he's beating dominantly at CW are easily able to become top 10 HW's. I mean Briedis brutally stopped Charr, Hunter is doing really well at HW, Bellew stopped Haye, and I wouldn't doubt Gassiev could beat guys like Whyte at HW.

I don't find any of that compelling. If after he fights as a HW, I may change my mind, but nothing makes me think he'd be overly successful moving up. Hunter? Really?

You may as well say Kownacki, really? Hunter stopped Kilzade just like Joyce and Kownacki did. Joyce is considered a threat, yet his resume isn't even head-and-shoulders above Hunter's. Do you think Hunter would lose to a guy like Lenroy Thomas?

[oogiebe]

I'm pretty sure he rehydrates that much. I don't understand where all this *I'm unsure* is coming from. Usyk was schooling big dudes before. He's a lot better against big, hulking guys than smaller, athletic dudes.

As I said, the guys he's beating dominantly at CW are easily able to become top 10 HW's. I mean Briedis brutally stopped Charr, Hunter is doing really well at HW, Bellew stopped Haye, and I wouldn't doubt Gassiev could beat guys like Whyte at HW.

I don't find any of that compelling. If after he fights as a HW, I may change my mind, but nothing makes me think he'd be overly successful moving up. Hunter? Really?

You may as well say Kownacki, really? Hunter stopped Kilzade just like Joyce and Kownacki did. Joyce is considered a threat, yet his resume isn't even head-and-shoulders above Hunter's. Do you think Hunter would lose to a guy like Lenroy Thomas?

Your talking about Hunter and Lenroy Thomas as an argument for Usyk beating AJ? I simply don't agree with your thought process. Nothing to end the world.

[Rob3_142]

I can’t help thinking that Usyk needs to face a few legitimate heavyweights that can test his chin in order to determine whether the Ukraine can cope with heavier blows than what he’s normally accustomed to.

Tony Bellew was never a fully-fledged heavyweight and the Brit never beat one either. The ‘Bomber’ had to lose around 40lbs in order to achieve the 200lbs cruiserweight limit for last weekend’s bout. I’m not saying that this unduly affected the outcome of the fight, but no one should pretend that this was Usyk proving himself at heavyweight either.

For sure, Oleksandr can gain a certain amount of weight to be regarded as a fully-fledged heavyweight, but surely he needs to acclimatise himself to facing bigger men that are willing to walk through his shots, whilst employing rough-house tactics, in order to land their own heavier blows.

Even though I feel that the Ukraine is a supremely gifted fighter, I still think it’s too premature to speculate on the outcome of a potential bout between Usyk and Joshua, since this fight won't happen any sooner than the second half of 2020 (at the earliest).

People should refrain from prematurely granting Oleksandr Usyk an honorary rite of passage to being regarded as the future king of the heavyweights, based purely on his victories over 200lb-ers.

Perhaps I’m being unreasonable and people will be deeply offended by this hideously outrageous post, so I apologise in advance for any offence caused

Not unreasonable at all. A post which reflects my thoughts exactly.

[Rob3_142]

I can’t help thinking that Usyk needs to face a few legitimate heavyweights that can test his chin in order to determine whether the Ukraine can cope with heavier blows than what he’s normally accustomed to.

Tony Bellew was never a fully-fledged heavyweight and the Brit never beat one either. The ‘Bomber’ had to lose around 40lbs in order to achieve the 200lbs cruiserweight limit for last weekend’s bout. I’m not saying that this unduly affected the outcome of the fight, but no one should pretend that this was Usyk proving himself at heavyweight either.

For sure, Oleksandr can gain a certain amount of weight to be regarded as a fully-fledged heavyweight, but surely he needs to acclimatise himself to facing bigger men that are willing to walk through his shots, whilst employing rough-house tactics, in order to land their own heavier blows.

Even though I feel that the Ukraine is a supremely gifted fighter, I still think it’s too premature to speculate on the outcome of a potential bout between Usyk and Joshua, since this fight won't happen any sooner than the second half of 2020 (at the earliest).

People should refrain from prematurely granting Oleksandr Usyk an honorary rite of passage to being regarded as the future king of the heavyweights, based purely on his victories over 200lb-ers.

Perhaps I’m being unreasonable and people will be deeply offended by this hideously outrageous post, so I apologise in advance for any offence caused

He already fought Gassiev, Briedis, and Huck. Briedis and Huck have both ventured and been competitive at HW. Gassiev hits hard enough to stop any HW. Not sure what the hell else you want.

Also, Michael Hunter is making noise at HW too. These guys Usyk beat are HW's that drain down to make CW.

If you're using Hammer as a barometer of success in the heavyweight division, I'd advise you to keen looking. Breidis and Huck are completely irrelevant in the heavyweight arena