Henry Cooper vs. George Chuvalo

[scorpio83]

To make the dream of the same era interesting, who would win between Henry Cooper and George Chuvalo? Cooper had a great left hook, but to beat Chuvalo, he must box him rather than slugging with him for a decision win because Chuvalo had a great chin. For Chuvalo to defeat Henry Cooper, he either beat him by a cut eye stoppage like Muhammad Ali did or by knockout like Floyd Patterson, Ingemar Johansson and Zora Folley did or the combination of both?

[dalcumly]

Just as a matter of interest.
In January 1966 Chuvalo came to London to fight Cooper's sparring partner, Eduardo Corletti. Cooper held the Empire title and Chuvalo was being lined up as a challenger. Corletti was managed by Cooper's manager Jim Wicks. Chuvalo's people had tried to get Cooper to defend in Canada, but could only offer him one third of his usual fight purse ,around £7000.
Corletti outpointed Chuvalo, and at that, the London promoters realised they couldn't sell the fight to the British public.
Chuvalo always maintained that Cooper refused to fight him , implying that he was 'scared'.
The fight didn't take place simply because the money being offered wasn't enough.
Cooper would have boxed his head off in 1966.

[writehooks]

A bloody execution -- quite literally. Both guys would leak a lot of hemoglobin before the bigger, stronger Chuvalo lowers the boom, nearly breaking Cooper in half with a body shot in round 4. Named fight of the year by the British Red Cross Society.

[HomicideHenry]

Hmm... This is quite the pick 'em fight...

Cooper, the greatest British & Commonwealth Heavyweight champion of all-time, and Chuvalo reknowned for an iron jaw & warrior spirit.

The issue I have with either of them is that every time either of them stepped up they lost--- Cooper lost to not just Ali twice, he also got beaten (and quickly) by Floyd Patterson, Zora Folley, and Ingemar Johansson.

My knock against Chuvalo was that he was inconsistent as hell & he wasn't really the most skilled guy anyways--- don't believe the bullshit that he was robbed against Terrell & Patterson, those fights weren't even close.

They did have some opponents in common, other than the obvious names. Joe Bygraves, Joe Erskine, Alex Miteff, Dick Wipperman. They both had wins and losses against them.

Chuvalo went 0-1-0 against Erskine; disqualification for headbutting (5th round) in '61. Cooper went 3-2 against him--- '55, '57, '59, '61, '62. Cooper beating him by kayo in the 9th, immediately after Chuvalo DQ'd himself against Erskine.

Alex Miteff went 0-1-0 against Cooper ('60) losing by decision. Miteff went 0-1-1 against Chuvalo, drawing in '58 and losing a split decision in '61.

Wipperman went 0-1-0 against Cooper, kayo loss ('65) and went 0-2-0 against Chuvalo ('66 & '67) also kayo losses.

Bygraves went 0-1-0 against Chuvalo ('65) by decision. Cooper went 1-1-0 against Bygraves ('55 & '57).

All in all, a fairly dead even fight--- Especially if you arranged that fight anywhere between '60-'65 when both men were virtually identical in worth on the international scene.

Cooper would retire in '71 following a highly controversial decision loss to 31-2-1 Joe Bugner. That same year Chuvalo lost a decision to Jimmy Ellis & won a decision over a beyond shot Cleveland Williams.

Chuvalo didn't have a significant win since Quarry in '69, and had been bombed out by George Foreman in '70 and from that point on his ring wins consisted of journeymen.

Cooper on the other hand was 7-1 (4) prior to the Bugner fight. Six were European or British title matches which he won. His only loss being to Floyd Patterson (4th round kayo) in '66. His most impressive win at the time was a 9th round kayo of Jose Manual Urtain who was 31-1-0 and was in negotiations to fight Joe Frazier for the title. So over was Urtain that he was on the cover of RING magazine and editor Nat Fleischer said that no heavyweight could match him for strength.

So it seems that Cooper, at least in my eyes, has the edge over Chuvalo. He was beating the more relevant fighters in the late 60s & 70s and in the early 60s had slightly better success against common opponents.

[dalcumly]

What an excellent summary and assessment by homicidehenry , first class research.

[jamamb]

ya although from hens work and just watching them myself it seems like more of a fight then chuvalo just easily getting his head boxed off, i think it defo wouldve been competitive

[Woller]

George Chuvalo would be a high risk opponent for Cooper, so manager Wicks of course was looking for a lot of money to put the Commonwealth title on the line. As I understand from Cooper biographies there was a way too small offer on the table for a fight in Canada so it was declined. Cooper could get easier opponents in England for more money, so that sounds like good management.
If there had been a fight, I think that Chuvalo would have been to rough and stopped Cooper late, maybe on cuts. If the fight had been made in England there is a chance that Chuvalo would be disqualified for butting by a British referee.

[DrDuke]

A close call indeed.

[HomicideHenry]

What an excellent summary and assessment by homicidehenry , first class research.

Thanks for that.

[klompton]

My understanding is that Coopers manager was pretty open about wanting nothing to do with Chuvalo. The idea that there wasnt enough money in that fight might ring hollow in light of the fact that Cooper priced himself well out of a heavyweight championship with Floyd Patterson. With good reason because Patterson damn near decapitated him when they finally met. As far as Cooper-Chuvalo goes I could see it going a few different ways. If Cooper could stay away from him (which wasnt the hardest thing in the world to do) I think hed take a decision. However if he couldnt I could see Chuvalo stopping him on either cuts or a KO. Its a 50/50 fight for me. I certainly wouldnt bet on it.

[scorpio83]

A close call indeed.

It is a close call and boxing fans have different outcome should Henry Cooper and George Chuvalo have fought. Good argument from both sides to make a case that one has the better accomplishment in the ring than the other.

[dalcumly]

I've got to disagree with part of that last comment.
I'm assured that Wicks had no concerns whatsoever about fighting Chuvalo. I repeat what I said earlier, it was simply a matter of money. Levene and Solomons would not promote an Empire title fight against Chuvalo after his defeat to Cooper"s sparring partner and Chuvalo's promoter in Canada couldn't offer Wicks more than £7000 to travel across the Atlantic.
What would have happened if they fought is down to opinion.

[sweetviolenturge]

One night while holding up the bar at a post-fight party with Mickey Duff & Bert Sugar in 1986 I asked who would have won a fight between Cooper & Chuvalo & they both told me that A) Cooper's people definitely didn't want that fight & B) that Chuvalo would have worn him down, busted him up & stopped Cooper late probably while behind on points. Later on, in 1990 Chuvalo told me pretty much the same thing ( though he said he'd have KO'd Cooper in about five rounds ).
My own personal view mirrors that of those three regarding the fight itself. With Cooper's British Empire title at stake in a scheduled 15 rounder, I believe that Chuvalo would stop Cooper in eleven or twelve rounds.

[Flump]

My first instinct is that Chuvalo is indeed 'too ugly' for Cooper and would maul him for a stoppage. But Cooper has a chance, Chuvalo, though strong and tough as he was is not the most skilled, which is why he lost the majority of the biggest fights in his career. I mean I love Chuvalo, but some of the fights he thinks he won border on delusional, such as Ali II for example.

Very interesting matchup.

[Cap]

In a previous summary of Chuvalo's career one name was conveniently left out: Doug Jones. Jones was a top contender when he fought Chuvalo in Madison Square Garden and George stopped him in seven. The first guy to do that. Cooper wasn't in the same class as Doug Jones. Chuvalo also KO'd Jerry Quarry, another guy rated higher than Cooper. As for the Patterson fight, Floyd was the beloved former champ fighting a foreigner in New York City. Chuvalo would have had to knock him out to get a draw! If the fight had been held almost anywhere else George would have got the nod, and Floyd knew it.

Chuvalo fighting the idol of England, the Brit Bleeder, Henry Cooper in Blighty with a British referee would have had to knock Cooper out in round one to get a win. Otherwise he would surely have been disqualified the first chance they got. If the fight was in Toronto or Montreal George would have caved Cooper in with body shots and opened his face up with hard left hooks, his specialty. Cooper's manager wanted nothing to do with Chuvalo.

[Woller]

Yes, it would be a problem for Chuvalo if he fought in England. Butting rabbit, kidney and low punching was no tolerated. If you hit low in USA you lost the round, it you hit low in England you were OUT. Sometimes the referees were very strikt, but on the other hand they enforced the rules.

The great Len Harvey never wore a protector. He said: "Why should I, if my opponent hits me low, I expect him to be disqualified. I would myself expect to be disqualified if I hit my opponent low.