Syntax Error wrote: ↑29 Nov 2018, 12:07
There's a lot of revisionism re: Ortiz.
For a good while he was seen as the bogeyman of the HW; the uncrowded champ who no-one wanted to fight, the Wilder signs to fight, not once, but twice, eventually prevails in a see-saw battle and suddenly Ortiz is a fat old man with high blood pressure whom Wilder should have dispatched without breaking sweat.
A good majority on this forum just want to discount any accomplishment Wilder attains.
If it fits their agenda they will twist and distort it
Absolutely.
I don't have to like a fighter to give them credit when necessary.
Wilder's victory over Ortiz was fantastic; in fact, both men should be applauded for their efforts.
Credit where credit is due & that's the way it should always be.
these underrated / overrated debates are silly because you are debating with a fictional mass when in fact everyone evaluates differently.
wilder is very, very dangerous. still undefeated, so full of confidence, and now battle hardened.
of course plenty of vulnerabilities, but the first man to beat him deserves a lot of credit.
we could say wilder is a good fighter, with huge power.
not great yet, and certainly has technical wraknesses.
fanman wrote: ↑29 Nov 2018, 17:48
these underrated / overrated debates are silly because you are debating with a fictional mass when in fact everyone evaluates differently.
wilder is very, very dangerous. still undefeated, so full of confidence, and now battle hardened.
of course plenty of vulnerabilities, but the first man to beat him deserves a lot of credit.
we could say wilder is a good fighter, with huge power.
not great yet, and certainly has technical wraknesses.
BitPlayer wrote: ↑28 Nov 2018, 20:57
The only person Joshua has fought that's as good as Ortiz is Wlad, and Joshua both tasted the canvas and nearly lost.
All the top heavyweights have serious limitattions, they're not great, but it's great fun.
I rate Povitkin and Takem around the same level as 2018 Ortiz
Povetkin, maybe, though he looked awful against Price. Takam, no.
Syntax Error wrote: ↑29 Nov 2018, 12:07
There's a lot of revisionism re: Ortiz.
For a good while he was seen as the bogeyman of the HWs; the uncrowned champ whom no-one wanted to fight, then Wilder signs to fight him, not once, but twice, eventually prevails in a see-saw battle and suddenly Ortiz is a fat old man with high blood pressure whom Wilder should have dispatched without breaking sweat.
There is some revisionism with your assessment, too. British fans knew him as AJ's mandatory after Pulev and he was signed to match room where he looked shite against British level Dave Allen and went 12 with professional sparring partner and part-time diver Malik Scott. The legend of the King Kong "bogeyman" died there. The last time he looked good was 2016. He was certainly a dangerous fight and top 5. I don't think he was as avoided as people make out. The stage was set for him to sell himself as an opponent on a huge platform in Britain and he went all Cuban and blew his opportunity.
Syntax Error wrote: ↑29 Nov 2018, 12:07
There's a lot of revisionism re: Ortiz.
For a good while he was seen as the bogeyman of the HWs; the uncrowned champ whom no-one wanted to fight, then Wilder signs to fight him, not once, but twice, eventually prevails in a see-saw battle and suddenly Ortiz is a fat old man with high blood pressure whom Wilder should have dispatched without breaking sweat.
It's so obvious it's ridiculous. Wilder haters are predictable.
ppl defo started to go more negative on ortz during the scott-allen period. thats a some revisionism too that it only or almost completely started when he signed vs wlder. syntax posts that a lot but hes wrong...you can easily see loads of stuff from after those fights where ppl are negative about ort and change tune from the 'monster' stuff from after the jennngs fght etc
jamamb wrote: ↑01 Dec 2018, 13:58
not even true though...
ppl defo started to go more negative on ortz during the scott-allen period. thats a some revisionism too that it only or almost completely started when he signed vs wlder. syntax posts that a lot but hes wrong...you can easily see loads of stuff from after those fights where ppl are negative about ort and change tune from the 'monster' stuff from after the jennngs fght etc
We are allowed to change our minds based on performance though.
Ortiz looked like a beast, then he signed with Hearn on track to face AJ after 2 fights to build his profile in the UK. looked like crap in those fights, Eddie dropped him off the books, and went on to fight Wilder.
I devalued him leading up to the Wilder fight based on his last two years and two fights. Prior to that I thought he was champ material.
So I was pleasantly surprised at his performance against Wilder. It still didn't improve my opinion of Wilder much based on what Ortiz was like going into the fight.
I think that Wilder is underrated by his hater fans. Most boxing fans see him for what he is - a raw boxer who was managed very carefully to get to this point, with the hopes that the largely soft touch seasoning would help him improve his skill set enough to have a chance combined with his heavy power in the big paydays.
He passed the Ortiz test, no matter what you think of the Cuban. Now he gets the large payday test v the next to best in the HW Div.
I have long called him a preying mantis on ice waiting to happen. He proved me right v Ortiz but he managed to stay upright, which I doubted he could do when touched by top level power.
Both men are facing their sternest test to date. That is what makes this fight so intriguing. It could end at any moment over 12 rounds, either way, imo.
ironbeard wrote: ↑01 Dec 2018, 15:31
I think that Wilder is underrated by his hater fans. Most boxing fans see him for what he is - a raw boxer who was managed very carefully to get to this point, with the hopes that the largely soft touch seasoning would help him improve his skill set enough to have a chance combined with his heavy power in the big paydays.
He passed the Ortiz test, no matter what you think of the Cuban. Now he gets the large payday test v the next to best in the HW Div.
I have long called him a preying mantis on ice waiting to happen. He proved me right v Ortiz but he managed to stay upright, which I doubted he could do when touched by top level power.
Both men are facing their sternest test to date. That is what makes this fight so intriguing. It could end at any moment over 12 rounds, either way, imo.
Fair points indeed! I still have Wilder in 5-6 rounds.
OH_RickNMorty wrote: ↑28 Nov 2018, 20:38
Now I completely respect Wilder for his ‘skills’ and resume in the ring. He’s a good boxer, to be fair to him, but...
Now we’ll start off with his fight with Luis Ortiz — arguably his most difficult fight so far — where Wilder eventually picked up the victory. He struggled with Ortiz for a while and was eventually rocked with a good left-right combination but regained himself after the sixty-second break between the rounds. Now people like Anthony Joshua would probably (I’m at least 80% sure) not struggle with the likes of Ortiz, neither would Tyson Fury, but I imagine Dillian Whyte would be challenged by him.
How can Wilder be taken seriously as a ‘world-class champ’ when he
struggles with the likes of Ortiz?! If Ortiz rocked him, Joshua could well KO Wilder — possibly even Fury, though that is more unlikely than less. Deontay Wilder is an above-average boxer, but certainly nothing elite or legendary.
I’m ranting/venting about this because I see a lot of people talking how Wilder could knock Joshua out, become the new Lineal Champion, and even unify the Heavyweight Division — even though people have only just found out about him!
With a little break between rounds AND a little break at a most critical moment in round 8! Why didn't you mention that? Did you forget all about it like they expect you to?
OH_RickNMorty wrote: ↑28 Nov 2018, 20:38
Now I completely respect Wilder for his ‘skills’ and resume in the ring. He’s a good boxer, to be fair to him, but...
Now we’ll start off with his fight with Luis Ortiz — arguably his most difficult fight so far — where Wilder eventually picked up the victory. He struggled with Ortiz for a while and was eventually rocked with a good left-right combination but regained himself after the sixty-second break between the rounds. Now people like Anthony Joshua would probably (I’m at least 80% sure) not struggle with the likes of Ortiz, neither would Tyson Fury, but I imagine Dillian Whyte would be challenged by him.
How can Wilder be taken seriously as a ‘world-class champ’ when he
struggles with the likes of Ortiz?! If Ortiz rocked him, Joshua could well KO Wilder — possibly even Fury, though that is more unlikely than less. Deontay Wilder is an above-average boxer, but certainly nothing elite or legendary.
I’m ranting/venting about this because I see a lot of people talking how Wilder could knock Joshua out, become the new Lineal Champion, and even unify the Heavyweight Division — even though people have only just found out about him!
With a little break between rounds AND a little break at a most critical moment in round 8! Why didn't you mention that? Did you forget all about it like they expect you to?
Crya Riveromess, you need to have paramedics at the ready, in the very possible event that Wilder flattens Fury.
OH_RickNMorty wrote: ↑28 Nov 2018, 20:38
Now I completely respect Wilder for his ‘skills’ and resume in the ring. He’s a good boxer, to be fair to him, but...
Now we’ll start off with his fight with Luis Ortiz — arguably his most difficult fight so far — where Wilder eventually picked up the victory. He struggled with Ortiz for a while and was eventually rocked with a good left-right combination but regained himself after the sixty-second break between the rounds. Now people like Anthony Joshua would probably (I’m at least 80% sure) not struggle with the likes of Ortiz, neither would Tyson Fury, but I imagine Dillian Whyte would be challenged by him.
How can Wilder be taken seriously as a ‘world-class champ’ when he
struggles with the likes of Ortiz?! If Ortiz rocked him, Joshua could well KO Wilder — possibly even Fury, though that is more unlikely than less. Deontay Wilder is an above-average boxer, but certainly nothing elite or legendary.
I’m ranting/venting about this because I see a lot of people talking how Wilder could knock Joshua out, become the new Lineal Champion, and even unify the Heavyweight Division — even though people have only just found out about him!
With a little break between rounds AND a little break at a most critical moment in round 8! Why didn't you mention that? Did you forget all about it like they expect you to?
Crya Riveromess, you need to have paramedics at the ready, in the very possible event that Wilder flattens Fury.
OH_RickNMorty wrote: ↑28 Nov 2018, 20:38
Now I completely respect Wilder for his ‘skills’ and resume in the ring. He’s a good boxer, to be fair to him, but...
Now we’ll start off with his fight with Luis Ortiz — arguably his most difficult fight so far — where Wilder eventually picked up the victory. He struggled with Ortiz for a while and was eventually rocked with a good left-right combination but regained himself after the sixty-second break between the rounds. Now people like Anthony Joshua would probably (I’m at least 80% sure) not struggle with the likes of Ortiz, neither would Tyson Fury, but I imagine Dillian Whyte would be challenged by him.
How can Wilder be taken seriously as a ‘world-class champ’ when he
struggles with the likes of Ortiz?! If Ortiz rocked him, Joshua could well KO Wilder — possibly even Fury, though that is more unlikely than less. Deontay Wilder is an above-average boxer, but certainly nothing elite or legendary.
I’m ranting/venting about this because I see a lot of people talking how Wilder could knock Joshua out, become the new Lineal Champion, and even unify the Heavyweight Division — even though people have only just found out about him!
With a little break between rounds AND a little break at a most critical moment in round 8! Why didn't you mention that? Did you forget all about it like they expect you to?
Crya Riveromess, you need to have paramedics at the ready, in the very possible event that Wilder flattens Fury.
What does that have to do with what I just said? There are way too many retards on here now messing up the threads and posting their own retard threads.
With a little break between rounds AND a little break at a most critical moment in round 8! Why didn't you mention that? Did you forget all about it like they expect you to?
Crya Riveromess, you need to have paramedics at the ready, in the very possible event that Wilder flattens Fury.
Why r u applauding that retard, Oogeeboogee? You disappoint me. I thought u had the potential to become a contender.
Why r u applauding that retard, Oogeeboogee? You disappoint me. I thought u had the potential to become a contender.
I thought it was funny, and I agree that Wilder will flatten Fury. "I coulda been a contendah, I coulda been someone!"
Yo, Adrian! Actually I remember doing that schick one night after a sip of vodka or 2 with a girl named Adrian, someplace on Long Island. Interesting girl actually. Her family was connected with the FBI and other big poobahs. She laughed. I like people who laugh at my jokes.
You've got it backwards. Fury will flatten the bum..
Why r u applauding that retard, Oogeeboogee? You disappoint me. I thought u had the potential to become a contender.
I thought it was funny, and I agree that Wilder will flatten Fury. "I coulda been a contendah, I coulda been someone!"
Yo, Adrian! Actually I remember doing that schick one night after a sip of vodka or 2 with a girl named Adrian, someplace on Long Island. Interesting girl actually. Her family was connected with the FBI and other big poobahs. She laughed. I like people who laugh at my jokes.
You've got it backwards. Fury will flatten the bum..
I'm originally from Long Island. LOL on the Yo Adrian chick! I'm also very sorry you'll be disappointed in the outcome of the fight.
oogiebe wrote: ↑01 Dec 2018, 16:15
I thought it was funny, and I agree that Wilder will flatten Fury. "I coulda been a contendah, I coulda been someone!"
Yo, Adrian! Actually I remember doing that schick one night after a sip of vodka or 2 with a girl named Adrian, someplace on Long Island. Interesting girl actually. Her family was connected with the FBI and other big poobahs. She laughed. I like people who laugh at my jokes.
You've got it backwards. Fury will flatten the bum..
I'm originally from Long Island. LOL on the Yo Adrian chick! I'm also very sorry you'll be disappointed in the outcome of the fight.
I'm not from Long Island but I often went there.
Yo, Adrian, wherever you are! You're great. I'm sorry I was a cad to you.
We'll soon see who will be disappointed tonight. Helpful hint: it won't be me.
Yo, Adrian! Actually I remember doing that schick one night after a sip of vodka or 2 with a girl named Adrian, someplace on Long Island. Interesting girl actually. Her family was connected with the FBI and other big poobahs. She laughed. I like people who laugh at my jokes.
You've got it backwards. Fury will flatten the bum..
I'm originally from Long Island. LOL on the Yo Adrian chick! I'm also very sorry you'll be disappointed in the outcome of the fight.
I'm not from Long Island but I often went there.
Yo, Adrian, wherever you are! You're great. I'm sorry I was a cad to you.
We'll soon see who will be disappointed tonight. Helpful hint: it won't be me.
oogiebe wrote: ↑01 Dec 2018, 16:24
I'm originally from Long Island. LOL on the Yo Adrian chick! I'm also very sorry you'll be disappointed in the outcome of the fight.
I'm not from Long Island but I often went there.
Yo, Adrian, wherever you are! You're great. I'm sorry I was a cad to you.
We'll soon see who will be disappointed tonight. Helpful hint: it won't be me.
BTW my quote was from "on the waterfront."
Wasn't that line in the movie Rocky 1, or am I mixing up the OTW movie with Rocky 1? I haven't seen either in a long time, especially the former. Nevertheless I was pretty funny that night - at least i thought so - whatever I was doing. And it's true too: Yo, Oogeeboogee, I coulda been a contenduh!
