Salvador Sanchez v. Juan Manuel Marquez: Who was the best Featherweight?

[oogiebe]

Having watched the (shortened) career of of Salvador Sanchez, I consider him the best Featherweight I've ever seen. As Boxrec has Marquez as greatest Featherweight of all time, I wanted to get a sense of the forums view on this...so who was the better fighter/who wins?

[oogiebe]

Sanchez notable wins:
Danny Lopez
Ruben Castillo
Juan LaPorte
Wilfredo Gomez
Azumah Nelson

[DrDuke]

I'd pick Sanchez over Marquez. Their scalps can be measured pretty equally, but Marquez' most notable achievements were beyond the featherweights and Sanchez scored his major wins in a more convincing fashion, I'd say.

[oogiebe]

I'd pick Sanchez over Marquez. Their scalps can be measured pretty equally, but Marquez' most notable achievements were beyond the featherweights and Sanchez scored his major wins in a more convincing fashion, I'd say.

I always wondered just how great Sanchez would've been.

[DrDuke]

I'd pick Sanchez over Marquez. Their scalps can be measured pretty equally, but Marquez' most notable achievements were beyond the featherweights and Sanchez scored his major wins in a more convincing fashion, I'd say.

I always wondered just how great Sanchez would've been.

Yeah, his potential wasn't fully realised, however, he still managed to prove, that he was a one of the greatest featherweights of all time, as well as a one of the greatest Mexican boxers ever.

[oogiebe]

I'd pick Sanchez over Marquez. Their scalps can be measured pretty equally, but Marquez' most notable achievements were beyond the featherweights and Sanchez scored his major wins in a more convincing fashion, I'd say.

I always wondered just how great Sanchez would've been.

Yeah, his potential wasn't fully realised, however, he still managed to prove, that he was a one of the greatest featherweights of all time, as well as a one of the greatest Mexican boxers ever.

Absolutely on all of your points!

[chrisjs1985]

Two of my favorites of all-time. I judge Marquez to have been technically better and have had a better overall career by a slim margin. I think there's no question Sanchez accomplished more purely as a featherweight. He dethroned a brilliant champion (Lopez) and had defenses against two all-time greats in Gomez and Nelson (though nobody knew it at the time) whereas Marquez was kind of frozen out. Unable to land fights with Hamed, Morales and Barrera with his best work being a draw with Pacquaio (which he deserved to win IMO) and the likes of Medina, Peden, Gainer (awful fight), Salido etc; good work and a deep resume but nothing that jumps out enough to put him up with Sanchez at the weight. It's what Marquez did after his prime and above his weight that shows how great he was.

I think Marquez would win head-to-head. Sanchez openly admitted he had a hard time with counter punchers (Cowdell fight) and wasn't quite the same when he was forced to lead which I think Marquez would make him do. Marquez was often too cautious at this weight class so that would make a lot of the rounds really difficult to score but he does have the edge in speed and power here so I think he sort of finishes the job Ruben Castillo started and edges Sanchez.

[oogiebe]

Two of my favorites of all-time. I judge Marquez to have been technically better and have had a better overall career by a slim margin. I think there's no question Sanchez accomplished more purely as a featherweight. He dethroned a brilliant champion (Lopez) and had defenses against two all-time greats in Gomez and Nelson (though nobody knew it at the time) whereas Marquez was kind of frozen out. Unable to land fights with Hamed, Morales and Barrera with his best work being a draw with Pacquaio (which he deserved to win IMO) and the likes of Medina, Peden, Gainer (awful fight), Salido etc; good work and a deep resume but nothing that jumps out enough to put him up with Sanchez at the weight. It's what Marquez did after his prime and above his weight that shows how great he was.

I think Marquez would win head-to-head. Sanchez openly admitted he had a hard time with counter punchers (Cowdell fight) and wasn't quite the same when he was forced to lead which I think Marquez would make him do. Marquez was often too cautious at this weight class so that would make a lot of the rounds really difficult to score but he does have the edge in speed and power here so I think he sort of finishes the job Ruben Castillo started and edges Sanchez.

After I posted this thread, I thought about how Marquez had more time to develop, as Sanchez left us way too early. Hard to imagine what "might have been." Sanchez was one my favorite fighters I ever saw. I was crushed when he passed away so tragically and suddenly.

[chrisjs1985]

Two of my favorites of all-time. I judge Marquez to have been technically better and have had a better overall career by a slim margin. I think there's no question Sanchez accomplished more purely as a featherweight. He dethroned a brilliant champion (Lopez) and had defenses against two all-time greats in Gomez and Nelson (though nobody knew it at the time) whereas Marquez was kind of frozen out. Unable to land fights with Hamed, Morales and Barrera with his best work being a draw with Pacquaio (which he deserved to win IMO) and the likes of Medina, Peden, Gainer (awful fight), Salido etc; good work and a deep resume but nothing that jumps out enough to put him up with Sanchez at the weight. It's what Marquez did after his prime and above his weight that shows how great he was.

I think Marquez would win head-to-head. Sanchez openly admitted he had a hard time with counter punchers (Cowdell fight) and wasn't quite the same when he was forced to lead which I think Marquez would make him do. Marquez was often too cautious at this weight class so that would make a lot of the rounds really difficult to score but he does have the edge in speed and power here so I think he sort of finishes the job Ruben Castillo started and edges Sanchez.

After I posted this thread, I thought about how Marquez had more time to develop, as Sanchez left us way too early. Hard to imagine what "might have been." Sanchez was one my favorite fighters I ever saw. I was crushed when he passed away so tragically and suddenly.

Some fighters just develop at different stages. How great Sanchez would have been is a mystery of course. Maybe he'd already peaked? His style was interesting in that he was very patient, calculating and he seldom got flustered but that he relied on bursts of energy. I spoke to Nacho Beristain once and he'd said that he felt Sanchez had already peaked and was going to lose very shortly. Interestingly he just didn't seem to rate Sanchez as highly as others do and said he's a "top 12 Mexican fighter. He had horrible technique and won fights based on being bigger and stronger than his opponents".

Sanchez' plan was to only fight about 2-3 more years and his activity suggests that probably was a genuine intention. Some other Mexican idols like Raton Macias, Vicente Saldivar and Jose Becerra had retired early. If I was to harbor a guess I'd say we lost Sanchez at his peak and that he wasn't going to get better but he wasn't declining either. I don't see him changing his style to a guy that would sit back and counter because he was mainly a guy who was good at countering in exchanges but not a full on counter puncher in the mold of a Marquez.

Marquez' career trajectory was interesting. His physical prime was in his mid/late 20's/early 30's when his hands were at their fastest and his feet too but at that point he was more of a pure counter puncher. When he lost to Norwood he got robbed but he still let a lot of rounds just pass him by and the fight was there to win by KO but he didn't force it enough. Being an incredibly smart fighter he learned as he got older and when his competition got better so too did he. Even though he slowed down by 2006/2007, his combinations got even more impressive and his shot selection even better and perhaps because he was getting hit more than brought out his warrior spirit more hence why he'd do more damage and be in thrilling fights. Imagine Marquez of 28 or 29 with the mentality he had when he was 34 or 35. For sure that would be the greatest Mexican fighter in history.

[oogiebe]

Two of my favorites of all-time. I judge Marquez to have been technically better and have had a better overall career by a slim margin. I think there's no question Sanchez accomplished more purely as a featherweight. He dethroned a brilliant champion (Lopez) and had defenses against two all-time greats in Gomez and Nelson (though nobody knew it at the time) whereas Marquez was kind of frozen out. Unable to land fights with Hamed, Morales and Barrera with his best work being a draw with Pacquaio (which he deserved to win IMO) and the likes of Medina, Peden, Gainer (awful fight), Salido etc; good work and a deep resume but nothing that jumps out enough to put him up with Sanchez at the weight. It's what Marquez did after his prime and above his weight that shows how great he was.

I think Marquez would win head-to-head. Sanchez openly admitted he had a hard time with counter punchers (Cowdell fight) and wasn't quite the same when he was forced to lead which I think Marquez would make him do. Marquez was often too cautious at this weight class so that would make a lot of the rounds really difficult to score but he does have the edge in speed and power here so I think he sort of finishes the job Ruben Castillo started and edges Sanchez.

After I posted this thread, I thought about how Marquez had more time to develop, as Sanchez left us way too early. Hard to imagine what "might have been." Sanchez was one my favorite fighters I ever saw. I was crushed when he passed away so tragically and suddenly.

Some fighters just develop at different stages. How great Sanchez would have been is a mystery of course. Maybe he'd already peaked? His style was interesting in that he was very patient, calculating and he seldom got flustered but that he relied on bursts of energy. I spoke to Nacho Beristain once and he'd said that he felt Sanchez had already peaked and was going to lose very shortly. Interestingly he just didn't seem to rate Sanchez as highly as others do and said he's a "top 12 Mexican fighter. He had horrible technique and won fights based on being bigger and stronger than his opponents".

Sanchez' plan was to only fight about 2-3 more years and his activity suggests that probably was a genuine intention. Some other Mexican idols like Raton Macias, Vicente Saldivar and Jose Becerra had retired early. If I was to harbor a guess I'd say we lost Sanchez at his peak and that he wasn't going to get better but he wasn't declining either. I don't see him changing his style to a guy that would sit back and counter because he was mainly a guy who was good at countering in exchanges but not a full on counter puncher in the mold of a Marquez.
tha
Marquez' career trajectory was interesting. His physical prime was in his mid/late 20's/early 30's when his hands were at their fastest and his feet too but at that point he was more of a pure counter puncher. When he lost to Norwood he got robbed but he still let a lot of rounds just pass him by and the fight was there to win by KO but he didn't force it enough. Being an incredibly smart fighter he learned as he got older and when his competition got better so too did he. Even though he slowed down by 2006/2007, his combinations got even more impressive and his shot selection even better and perhaps because he was getting hit more than brought out his warrior spirit more hence why he'd do more damage and be in thrilling fights. Imagine Marquez of 28 or 29 with the mentality he had when he was 34 or 35. For sure that would be the greatest Mexican fighter in history.

Interesting points and background, I enjoyed your post very much. As for a 28 y.o Marquez with the mentality of a 34 yo Marquez, one could say that often when going back on certain fighters careers. George Foreman came to mind as I read your post. Some fighters (usually great ones) get that great level of maturity later in their careers that change their approach and lengthen their years of effectiveness. Marquez' career was like a fine bottle of wine; it got better with each glass. I still loved Sanchez though.

[chrisjs1985]

After I posted this thread, I thought about how Marquez had more time to develop, as Sanchez left us way too early. Hard to imagine what "might have been." Sanchez was one my favorite fighters I ever saw. I was crushed when he passed away so tragically and suddenly.

Some fighters just develop at different stages. How great Sanchez would have been is a mystery of course. Maybe he'd already peaked? His style was interesting in that he was very patient, calculating and he seldom got flustered but that he relied on bursts of energy. I spoke to Nacho Beristain once and he'd said that he felt Sanchez had already peaked and was going to lose very shortly. Interestingly he just didn't seem to rate Sanchez as highly as others do and said he's a "top 12 Mexican fighter. He had horrible technique and won fights based on being bigger and stronger than his opponents".

Sanchez' plan was to only fight about 2-3 more years and his activity suggests that probably was a genuine intention. Some other Mexican idols like Raton Macias, Vicente Saldivar and Jose Becerra had retired early. If I was to harbor a guess I'd say we lost Sanchez at his peak and that he wasn't going to get better but he wasn't declining either. I don't see him changing his style to a guy that would sit back and counter because he was mainly a guy who was good at countering in exchanges but not a full on counter puncher in the mold of a Marquez.
tha
Marquez' career trajectory was interesting. His physical prime was in his mid/late 20's/early 30's when his hands were at their fastest and his feet too but at that point he was more of a pure counter puncher. When he lost to Norwood he got robbed but he still let a lot of rounds just pass him by and the fight was there to win by KO but he didn't force it enough. Being an incredibly smart fighter he learned as he got older and when his competition got better so too did he. Even though he slowed down by 2006/2007, his combinations got even more impressive and his shot selection even better and perhaps because he was getting hit more than brought out his warrior spirit more hence why he'd do more damage and be in thrilling fights. Imagine Marquez of 28 or 29 with the mentality he had when he was 34 or 35. For sure that would be the greatest Mexican fighter in history.

Interesting points and background, I enjoyed your post very much. As for a 28 y.o Marquez with the mentality of a 34 yo Marquez, one could say that often when going back on certain fighters careers. George Foreman came to mind as I read your post. Some fighters (usually great ones) get that great level of maturity later in their careers that change their approach and lengthen their years of effectiveness. Marquez' career was like a fine bottle of wine; it got better with each glass. I still loved Sanchez though.

I agree on Foreman. I wouldn't say he ever looked polished, he was just more patient later and with better preservation of energy. Barrera was another guy who did a change. He went guns blazing to more tactical and boxing a lot on the back foot. The remarkable thing with Marquez is that he fought more like an older fighter when he was young and more like a younger fighter when he was old. His style change was to gather more interest and entertain the casual fan more.

Sanchez is one of my absolute all-time favorites. I try to watch his career set once a year and find myself watching the odd random fight of his fairly often.

[oogiebe]

Sanchez was one of those fighters who I fell in love with after he beat one of my other all time favorites, Danny Lopez. Arguello was another. I love Olivares, but when I saw him taken out by Arguello, I became a huge Arguello fan! I love boxing!

[elmersalsa]

A Salvador Sanchez vs Alexis Arguello fight at 126lbs would have been a matchmaker's dream.

Would Sanchez chin hold up against The Explosive Thin Man's power?

Would Arguello be frustrated and outboxed by the faster Sanchez?

In my view, it would have been suicidal for Sanchez to slug it out inside with Arguello. But, I think he could mix it up by sticking and moving. Sanchez was one the most complete boxers that I have ever seen. He could do it all.

[oogiebe]

A Salvador Sanchez vs Alexis Arguello fight at 126lbs would have been a matchmaker's dream.

Would Sanchez chin hold up against The Explosive Thin Man's power?

Would Arguello be frustrated and outboxed by the faster Sanchez?

In my view, it would have been suicidal for Sanchez to slug it out inside with Arguello. But, I think he could mix it up by sticking and moving. Sanchez was one the most complete boxers that I have ever seen. He could do it all.

Holy yes! would've been a war.