James Belcher- the first "Scientific" Pugalists ?

[Caractacus]

was reading on-line parts of a book LAVENGRO by George Borrow (published in 1851)
and it mention him among other "Bruisers" of the Georgeian era.
and discribed him as " the most scientific pugilists that had ever entered a Ring".
Found it interesting because usually I don't read about fighters from that far back in time (he died in the first year of The Regency in 1811)
here some info about him

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Belcher

[HomicideHenry]

Most fighters then were cross-trained wrestlers who just clashed against each other. Belcher was more pugilist than wrestler, therefore his ability to set up combinations & utilize footwork & ring generalship made him rather "scientific" in comparison. That's what made guys like Jem Mace phenomenal because they were reflex-driven athlete's making feints, turning on a dime, etc and made an awful lot of bruisers look horrible from lightweight to heavyweight.

[oogiebe]

Most fighters then were cross-trained wrestlers who just clashed against each other. Belcher was more pugilist than wrestler, therefore his ability to set up combinations & utilize footwork & ring generalship made him rather "scientific" in comparison. That's what made guys like Jem Mace phenomenal because they were reflex-driven athlete's making feints, turning on a dime, etc and made an awful lot of bruisers look horrible from lightweight to heavyweight.

That is seriously interesting and makes a lot of sense. Thanks for sharing that! I would have never known. I guess it was hard to make a living out of being a pugilist or a wrestler, so why not both.

[HomicideHenry]

Exactly. People oftentimes don't realize, either, that boxing and wrestling didn't quite have their own unique/separate identities until 1889.

Because of the London Prize Ring rules were hybrid rules benefiting both wrestling and boxing--- many great grapplers became the American or British Heavyweight Champion (or other weight class).

Even wrestling (on it's own) had to do "mixed bouts" of Catch vs Greco or Sumo or "Collar & Elbow", to keep it fun and interesting--- the Police Gazette literally gave out Championship Trophies for these pioneer MMA fights.

Mike McCoole, from my state of Ohio, was a tremendous wrestler who had tremendous hitting power--- however his "equalizer" in the ring was a suplex. He killed Aaron Jones in defense of the American (boxing) title with that move.

Boxing wouldn't really be boxing until Sullivan, who absolutely hated the London Prize Ring rules. He felt it was counter-productive to fist fighting, and that all the holds & throws was not "fighting like a man."

But yes, if you were a good wrestler, it was encouraged to do boxing because you had a helluva chance of going somewhere. I think, partially, why Sullivan-Kilrain was so beloved and still such an enduring legend is because Kilrain was such a prodigious wrestler--- which is why William Muldoon was Sullivan's trainer for the contest.

[oogiebe]

Exactly. People oftentimes don't realize, either, that boxing and wrestling didn't quite have their own unique/separate identities until 1889.

Because of the London Prize Ring rules were hybrid rules benefiting both wrestling and boxing--- many great grapplers became the American or British Heavyweight Champion (or other weight class).

Even wrestling (on it's own) had to do "mixed bouts" of Catch vs Greco or Sumo or "Collar & Elbow", to keep it fun and interesting--- the Police Gazette literally gave out Championship Trophies for these pioneer MMA fights.

Mike McCoole, from my state of Ohio, was a tremendous wrestler who had tremendous hitting power--- however his "equalizer" in the ring was a suplex. He killed Aaron Jones in defense of the American (boxing) title with that move.

Boxing wouldn't really be boxing until Sullivan, who absolutely hated the London Prize Ring rules. He felt it was counter-productive to fist fighting, and that all the holds & throws was not "fighting like a man."

But yes, if you were a good wrestler, it was encouraged to do boxing because you had a helluva chance of going somewhere. I think, partially, why Sullivan-Kilrain was so beloved and still such an enduring legend is because Kilrain was such a prodigious wrestler--- which is why William Muldoon was Sullivan's trainer for the contest.

Very cool, HH!

[Caractacus]

Did any of the early pugilists of the late 18th/early 19th Century have a background of Fencing
that they may have incorperated into their fighting techniques ?

[BitPlayer]

Apparently Ward (I think the one who challenged Tom Johnson), trained him from a young age. ATM I'm thinking Belcher was probably the best of all the bareknuckle boxers.


There are earlier scientific ones, Melankomas if you count ancient, who fought without punching, instead dodging until his opponent was exhausted according to legend.
Boswell might have been, but I've only seen Godfrey on him and he was pretty vague.
Broughton was pretty scientific, but in the old school aggressive way
Death (real name Oliver), fought larger opponents, a student of Broughton with an aggressive style and a lot of activity.
Tom Johnson is credited with elevating pugilism, and a skilled fighter, and was able to fight well defensively against Perrins when he had to
Ward (also Warr), fought Tom Johnson, skilled, though was overmatched against Johnson, and fought pretty dishonorably.
Humphries and Daniel Mendoza too, Mendoza beat a lot of larger opponents to become champion, Humphries was his mentor and later rival.

[BitPlayer]

Did any of the early pugilists of the late 18th/early 19th Century have a background of Fencing
that they may have incorperated into their fighting techniques ?

Figg was a very prominent fencer, and is often cited as the first champion of England, but I've seen no evidence he actually boxed.
Apparently Broughton was a good fencer.

[HomicideHenry]

Figg certainly was. Broughton was as well. I believe alot of the truly great pugilists at those times viewed fistfights as "fencing with fists" and incorporated those lines of attack into their style. Gene Tunney himself would call boxing "fencing with gloves".

In the case of Figg, he fought three round bouts. The first round was wrestling. The second round was boxing. The third round was either staffs, or swords, or clubs. If you could beat Figg two out of three rounds, you were the Champion. Unfortunately most fighters were either wrestlers or punchers, because swordfighting was considered an aristocratic discipline. So they'd lose off the bat because nobody apparently could match Figg with swords or clubs.

That's why I view Figg as the grandfather of martial arts than I do boxing because he was just an all around gifted combat sports athlete.

[Caractacus]

I wonder if Thomas Belcher may have been responsible for the verb "Belch"
into the English language ?
If you punch someone hard in enough in the bread-basket/body
sometimes the air is knocked out and either belch or Fart.
( like Ray Mercer had said he done when Tommy Morrison was
hitting him with body shots in their fight in 1995.

[BitPlayer]

Exactly. People oftentimes don't realize, either, that boxing and wrestling didn't quite have their own unique/separate identities until 1889.

Because of the London Prize Ring rules were hybrid rules benefiting both wrestling and boxing--- many great grapplers became the American or British Heavyweight Champion (or other weight class).

Even wrestling (on it's own) had to do "mixed bouts" of Catch vs Greco or Sumo or "Collar & Elbow", to keep it fun and interesting--- the Police Gazette literally gave out Championship Trophies for these pioneer MMA fights.

Mike McCoole, from my state of Ohio, was a tremendous wrestler who had tremendous hitting power--- however his "equalizer" in the ring was a suplex. He killed Aaron Jones in defense of the American (boxing) title with that move.

Boxing wouldn't really be boxing until Sullivan, who absolutely hated the London Prize Ring rules. He felt it was counter-productive to fist fighting, and that all the holds & throws was not "fighting like a man."

But yes, if you were a good wrestler, it was encouraged to do boxing because you had a helluva chance of going somewhere. I think, partially, why Sullivan-Kilrain was so beloved and still such an enduring legend is because Kilrain was such a prodigious wrestler--- which is why William Muldoon was Sullivan's trainer for the contest.

Though the history of wrestling is much longer continuously, atleast what hasn't been lost. There were certainly seperate wrestlers, though some types had a lot of shin kicking.

There was certainly a lot of wrestling technique in boxing though, gradually getting lesser (I've heard later ones such as Mace covered themselves in oil to reduce the wrestling).

In America the boxing really came into a culture of brutal Rough and Tumble fights, with eye gouging etc., which I think is the backround of Tom Hyer. I'm not sure they can be called wrestling, more just fights, though they certainly wrestled in them.

[BitPlayer]

I wonder if Thomas Belcher may have been responsible for the verb "Belch"
into the English language ?
If you punch someone hard in enough in the bread-basket/body
sometimes the air is knocked out and either belch or Fart.
( like Ray Mercer had said he done when Tommy Morrison was
hitting him with body shots in their fight in 1995.

Interesting idea, but the word goes back way further (I looked it up)

I've heard people used to say "give someone a Slack'un" as in punch hard, after Jack Slack.

Figg certainly was. Broughton was as well. I believe alot of the truly great pugilists at those times viewed fistfights as "fencing with fists" and incorporated those lines of attack into their style. Gene Tunney himself would call boxing "fencing with gloves".

In the case of Figg, he fought three round bouts. The first round was wrestling. The second round was boxing. The third round was either staffs, or swords, or clubs. If you could beat Figg two out of three rounds, you were the Champion. Unfortunately most fighters were either wrestlers or punchers, because swordfighting was considered an aristocratic discipline. So they'd lose off the bat because nobody apparently could match Figg with swords or clubs.

That's why I view Figg as the grandfather of martial arts than I do boxing because he was just an all around gifted combat sports athlete.

I've seen one of those stories of Figg but as far as I know they all came about well over a century later. The one I've seen was of Figg-Sutton, I think the fencing part was legit, but the boxing part appears to have been faked. Godfrey and all the newspapers at the time I've seen, all refered to him fencing.

[HomicideHenry]

I'd say as late as Dempsey, it was vital to have grappling partners in training camp. Jeffries oftentimes had Martin "Farmer" Burns in his camp preparing him for potential clinches that may come, etc--- and if one looks up Dempsey's books on self defense he goes on at length of how wrestling was beneficial in a fistfight because you could use leverage, etc.

That's why in old fight films you see a helluva lot of clinching because it was just as tactical and beneficial than anything else--- just take a gander at John Ruiz and how far he got by making that aspect of boxing his bread and butter. If a B grade (or C grade) boxer can neutralize their A grade opponents strengths by grappling, you have a helluva chance of equalizing the match.

[BitPlayer]

On Jem Mace, Dan Creedon said he thought he was the cleverest boxer, high praise from someone that not only fought Bob Fitzsimmons, Kid McCoy, Joe Choynski, Joe Walcott, Young Corbett (George Green), and Young Peter Jackson but also served as James J Corbett's sparring partner.

[HomicideHenry]

I've seen one of those stories of Figg but as far as I know they all came about well over a century later. The one I've seen was of Figg-Sutton, I think the fencing part was legit, but the boxing part appears to have been faked. Godfrey and all the newspapers at the time I've seen, all refered to him fencing.

I believe the Boxing aspect primarily because Jack Slack was Figg's grandson and he defeated Jack Broughton for the British Championship. Slack didn't just get that win out of thin air--- despite him being a full-time butcher. He learned to fistfight from his grandfather.

That and there is solid proof that Figg's ampitheatre was a place that taught and showcased boxing, wrestling and fencing. He was hands on in everything. I just think the fencing was so talked up because of the times--- Figg was not a highborn man, yet he mastered the "royal sport", and I think that stuck out more than anything else because he was a commoner who showed that he was the best in the kingdom despite not having privilege.

[HomicideHenry]

On Jem Mace, Dan Creedon said he thought he was the cleverest boxer, high praise from someone that not only fought Bob Fitzsimmons, Kid McCoy, Joe Choynski, Joe Walcott, Young Corbett (George Green), and Young Peter Jackson but also served as James J Corbett's sparring partner.

I believe it considering Mace fought until he was 59 and gave exhibitions until his 70s. I have to piggyback off this post a bit and add that Mace in old age said the two fighters who gave him the hardest time were Bob Brettle and Bartley Gorman--- the great grandfather of Bartley Gorman V who was 1st cousins of John Fury, father of Tyson Fury.

[BitPlayer]

On Jem Mace, Dan Creedon said he thought he was the cleverest boxer, high praise from someone that not only fought Bob Fitzsimmons, Kid McCoy, Joe Choynski, Joe Walcott, Young Corbett (George Green), and Young Peter Jackson but also served as James J Corbett's sparring partner.

I believe it considering Mace fought until he was 59 and gave exhibitions until his 70s. I have to piggyback off this post a bit and add that Mace in old age said the two fighters who gave him the hardest time were Bob Brettle and Bartley Gorman--- the great grandfather of Bartley Gorman V who was 1st cousins of John Fury, father of Tyson Fury.

He was a great boxer for sure, though I think you'd have to say King had the better of their two fights.

I recently saw an old post where Senya shared this

Harold Furniss:

Most biographers of Sayers have amused themselves, if not the public, by speculating upon what would have happened had Sayers met certain other celebrities either before or after his time. Such speculations are idle and unprofitable. When people ask me what chance Sayers would have stood against Bendigo or Jem Mace, I simply say that, as a matter of cat, Tom never had to fight any man of the class of either of these, but I should have backed him in any company to hold his own with credit.

Probably most of my readers have heard the tale of Mace's challenge to Sayers, but it will bear repeating. One day, when Tom was in his cups at a little alehouse off the Fulham road, kept by once famous ten-mile runner, "Jenny" Jones, his eye happened to light on a picture representing Heenan, Sayers, and Mace. Taking up his stick, Tom staggered to the picture, and touching the likeness of the Benicia Boy, said, "He's a good man." Then, touching his own portrait, "And he's a good man; but this," he continued, indicating Mace, "is a bloomin' duffer." And forthwith he drove the point of his stick through the face of the portrait. Mace, who was present, naturally left annoyed and challenged Sayers there and then to fight him for any sum he liked. But Tom pleaded that he had retired, and that the mutilation was a joke. "Not," said Mace, when telling me the story, "that it would have been any credit for me to have beaten him, for he was then but a shattered wreck."

A fight between Sayers and Mace, each at his best, would no doubt have been a grand sight, unless Jem happened to be in one of his superstitious moods. Having seen both of them fight at their best, I will only say that, whilst in my opinion Mace was unquestionably the finer artist, Sayers was the finer fighter.

[HomicideHenry]

All of these guys were "the real deal" and would have no problem transitioning to today's Boxing or MMA. Mace, certainly, was the best p4p fighter of his era. He could be OUT FOUGHT though.

Sometimes Mace's pride got in the way of good sense, like when he fought Charlie Mitchell at age 59. But in his prime, very few men I can think of could have beaten him--- and when I say that I mean fighters from his time.

It'd of been interesting to have seen him clash with Morrissey, McCoole, etc. but he did have a "second career" as a scout for new contenders to challenge John L. Sullivan--- unfortunately for him none of these came remotely close and his reputation took something of a hit, especially when Mace's protege Herbert Slade failed miserably.

[HomicideHenry]

In America the boxing really came into a culture of brutal Rough and Tumble fights, with eye gouging etc., which I think is the backround of Tom Hyer. I'm not sure they can be called wrestling, more just fights, though they certainly wrestled in them.

That's when it becomes apples and oranges for me. Consider a man like John Morrissey, best remembered for being the leader of the Dead Rabbits, but he was for all intents and purposes "the toughest man in the world", as opposed to being the "best boxer in the world".

His nickname "Old Smoke" came about because he was fighting in a saloon and was knocked literally into a coal stove which caught his clothes on fire and his skin burned badly--- and he came back to knock his opponent out.

That's apples and oranges. He was the baddest man in America, but, it's a certainty that had he met someone like Mace he'd of been embarrassed. He wasn't a boxer, he was just a force.

[Senya13]

Slack's relationship to Figg is fiction. There's no evidence they were related.

[BitPlayer]

Staffordshire Advertiser - Saturday 24 May 1800
BOXING MATCH
The attention of the sporting world was strongly excited on Thursday by a bruising match for 300 guineas, which was fought on Finchley Common, about two miles from Barnet, between a young man from Bristol, named Belcher, and Bartholomew, well known in the annals of pugilism.
Bartholomew is 37 years of age, Belcher only 20, and in size apparently much inferior to Bartholomew, yet from the long tution he has received under the scientific Ward, he was considered as the favourite by the amateurs.
The stage was erected at on o'clock, and about half an hour afterwards the champions set-to with the most determined ferocity.
In the second round, Belcher received so severe a knock-down blow, that fortune seemed inclined to favour Bartholomew, whose friends immediately let fly a pigeon to London with the intelligence; but in a few minutes afterwards he was thrown upon his head with such violence, that his eye-sight failed him, and he appered infinitely distressed. He, however, still persevered, and put in several blows with much effect; but was at length compelled to give in, in consequence of a violent blow in the put of the stomach, which caused him to vomit blood, and left him in the weakest condition imaginable.
The contest lasted twenty minutes, during which period seventeen rounds of as severe fighting as was ever remembered, were disputed with the utmost obstinacy. Immediately after the battle, Bartholomew was taken into custody by the Police Officers, under authority of a Judge's warrant, for having broken the peace before the time of his security had expired. He was escorted to town in a hackney coach, and bailed on his arrival.
Many people were disappointed, conceiving the battle would have been fought as Wormwood Scrubs; but the road to Finchley was, nevertheless, thronged during the whole day.
Belcher is engaged to fight Furby, the famour Yorkshire hero, in the course of next month, for 60l.; and from the specimen the former gave of his abilities and strength, a very severe contest is expected.

[BitPlayer]

I think it's this Ward who trained him, but I may be wrong.

Kentish Gazette - Tuesday 23 January 1787
We have received an account from a correspondent, whose authority we depended on, that the famous fight between Johnson and Ward, fought at Oakingham on Thursday last, continued full two hours and twenty minutes. Johnson waited some time on the platform, asked which was Ward; being told, looked at him, laughed, and said he would soon do his business; he stripped and the fight began; Ward gave Johnson a violent blow on the left eye, which in a little time closed, and during the remainder of the fight Johnson remembered it, for he never left that part of his head unguarded, which caused him to hit his adversary with the right hand only; but being so very powerful, Ward was obliged to make a defensive fight of it for the remainder of the battle, which was done by dropping on his knee whenever Johnson made attempt to hit him; and we are informed, if a man is struck whilst on his knee, it is a foul blow, and the striker loses the battle, therefore Ward’s friends on every blow of Johnson’s shouted out foul! foul! on which two umpires were then appointed and no person was to interfere but them. One was a gentleman of Ipswich, the other a gentleman from Bristol. The fight, if it may be called one, still continued, Johnson on his legs, and Ward within an inch of the floor with one of his knees; whenever Johnson attempted a blow, he was down. The two hours and twenty minutes were no expired, when Johnson attempted a blow. Ward was again down on his knee, and getting up he cried out foul! and left the stage; and notwithstanding his second called him several times to return he went clear off.---Thus ended this terrible conflict, and the bets remain unsettled, as the umpires are UNDETERMINED whether Johnson hit him or not; a great deal of money was depending, and the odds three and four to one during the fight in favour of Johnson.---Our correspondent adds, that had Ward stood up to Johnson, the latter must have been beat in five minutes.

[BitPlayer]

Derby Mercury - Thursday 22 October 1789

BOXING.

JOHNSON and PERRINS.

The long-expected battle between Johnson & Perrins, which took place at Banbury, Oxfordshire, on Thursday, has not in it’s event disappointed the expectations of the amateurs—It proved a very severe and well supported conflict, having lasted for an hour and a quarter with various turns of skill and fortune on both sides.

It was fought on a turf stage of 24 feet square, erected in the town of Banbury, defended on two sides by houses, and on the other two by rails—which, however, the populace broke down, but preserved good order during the battle.

At twenty minutes before one o’clock the combatants set-to. For five minutes all was anxious expectation. Perrins then, with great force, aimed a blow at Johnson, which the latter contrived to elude.

On the next set-to, Perrins was knocked down, and met with the same fate in the succeeding round.

Johnson then received too knock-down blows, one of which brought blood in his face.

Johnson at length exerted himself, and put in a blow over Perrins’s left eye, which closed it up.—This blow, and the failure of Perrins’s wind, which began now to be visible, raised the bets amazingly in favour of Johnson, and still more on Perrins’s receiving a very hard blow over the nose, which cut it through—They were then so high as 100 to 10.

Perrins, however, regaining his breath, fought again with much vigour, and made a good blow over Johnsons’s right eye, which had some little effect upon the bets, but not such as to render them equal.

After more than half an hour’s further severe contest, Perrins had recourse to some back-handed blows, which at first disconcerted Johnson, but against which he soon guarded himself very collectedly.

At the end of an hour and a quarter, Johnson aimed a blow at Perrins, which took place full under the ear, and concluded as severe and well supported a battle as can be recollected in the annals of Pugilism—it having consisted of sixty-two rounds of fair hard fighting.

Johnson is accused by Perrins’s friends (who are much disappointed at the issue of the recontre) with shifting; but when we recollect the great natural advantages enjoyed by Perrins, in his bulk and strength, he being a much larger man than Johnson, and above five inches taller, we cannot but think that Johnson was entitled to every fair manœuvre that skill and science could teach him, particularly as he shewed such perfect bottom on the occasion.

Perrins was obliged to be put to bed at a house in Banbury, with his face and head much bruised, and in other respects terribly beaten.

Johnson is much beaten about the face and body; but walked through the town to the Red Lion inn, accompanied by Harvey Aston, &c.

The battle was for 250 guineas aside. The door-money, which is supposed to have amounted to near 800l. was divided: The bets, at the commencement, were five to four on Johnson; after a few rounds, six to four; and towards the conclusion seven to four.

Bill and Joe Ward were Johnson’s Second and Bottle-holder.—Perrins’s brother and Pickard, those of Perrins.

Above 3000 people were within the inclosure.

Of the Amateurs present were—The Hon. Mr. Townshend, Harvey Aston, Capt.Lloyd, Mr.Coombe,Mr. Gower, Mr. Webb, Mr. Bullock, Mr. Tetherington. &c. &c.

The Umpires were Colonel Tarleton, and Mr. Meadows, an Innkeeper at Birmingham.

When the battle between Johnson and Perrins was over, the former leaped up, and touching the breast of Perrins’s second with his feet, challenged him to contest. The invitation, however, was declined.

Johnson, to judge from the eye, is about five feet eight, of remarkable strength upwards, and seemingly of uncommon agility: Perrins from six feet one to six feet two, singular muscular, but not so well proportioned as Johnson, rather corpulent than otherwise, and of tremendous aspect. Johnson’s weight is 13st. 6Ib. When Perrins’s weight, between 17 and 18st. was mentioned, Johnson said, he liked him the better for a customer; weight was no object to him, as he would fight any many, whatever might be his weight. Johnson is now deemed the Champion of England.

Perrins’s brother unfortunately staked every farthing he possessed on the event of the battle.

Mr. Bullock, report says, has won twenty thousand guineas on the event of the battle between Johnson & Perrins.—He backed Johnson with high odds, and it is said he has made his hero a present of 1000l.

BIG BEN and JACOMBS.

The second day’s play (as it is termed) at Banbury, though not so interesting as that of Thursday, was, however, well attended. Contrary to all expectation, the battle between Big Ben and Jacombs had terminated in favour of the former; and this by superiority that skill will ever ensure over mere strength; which, as the poet says generally—mole ruit sua.

This contest lasted an hour and 25 minutes.

GEORGE the BREWER and PICKARD.

Another battle between George the Brewer and Pickard followed in about a quarter of an hour, which was in the true stile of brutal ferocity. Pickard was terribly beaten, particularly about the face, which retained as few vestiges of humanity subsequent to the battle, as appeared in his mind during the progress of it. There was no manœuvring, indeed nothing scientific in this fight. It laster, however, half an hour, when George the Brewer was declared victor.

The Birmingham people retired much crest-fallen, in being so completely foiled in these three different battles.

BIRMINGAAM ACCOUNT of the above BATTLE.

—

The long-expected engagement between Johnson and Perrins took place on Thursday at Banbury, and proved the superiority of practice and skill in boxing and all athletic exercises over strength, courage and every other qualification. A stage 38 feet in diameter, covered with turf sprinkled over with saw-dust, and surrounded by a railing and benches, was erected in the centre of a plot of ground belonging to the Mayor, who was likewise the carpenter of the place, and was fenced out with boards placed upright; but which were soon broken down by the populace, who entered pell mell gratis after about six hundred pounds had been taken for admission at the doors.

Johnson, attended by Ward (who killed Swaine, the blacksmith) for his second, and the other Ward for his bottle-holder, come first upon the stage; and some time after Perrins, accompanied by his brother as bottle-holder, and Pickard as his second, appeared; and both the champions were saluted by the clapping and acclamations of the spectators. After stripping and shaking hands across a handkerchief held by the seconds, they set to a little before one o’clock. Johnson threw himself into a couchant posture, having his right knee not above three inches from the ground; and Perrins rather inclining forwards, in order to bring his arms as nearly as he could upon a level with his antagonist. A silent and suspenceful interval of two minutes elapsed before a blow was struck; but the onset was severe. Johnson displayed great scientific art; his action, keenness of observation, and judgement were surprising: such was the spring of his arm, that it darted into his antagonist like lightning, and his attitudes were beautiful. After manœuvering for some time, he brought down Perrins—he did so again—but the third round Perrins knocked him down, and by a dreadful blow on the side, (which, had it been a little lower, must inevitably have killed him) he in the fifth round knocked him down again. Johnson after this stood not at all manfully up to him, he fell without a blow, and Perrins’ friends immediately shouted Victory; but on appealing to the umpires, they decided it allowable, for the articles were not specifically against that conduct, only that they should fight fair and manly. Perrins had now certainly the advantage; one of Johnson’s eyes were closed, he was giddy, and evidently in great pain from the blow on the ribs. He therefore began to fight with the utmost care and cunning; he evaded every blow, kept running round, & puzzling Perrins by his manœuvres and perpetual shifts, till Perrins, enraged at his artifices, his incessant receding 7 retreats, and his falling without blows, lost his temper, exhausted his strength and wind by pursuing round the stage, by unnecessary advanced, and blows spent in the air.Johnson well knew how to take advantage of this error of his adversary. He now fought hard at him, kept battering his face, and by one terrible blow upon the jugular vein under the left ear, he knocked him with the greatest violence to the ground. This was to Perrins a dreadful fall, and he never sufficiently recovered it, for his blows were afterwards spent in the air, and Johnson seemed to hit him where he pleased. He was frequently down, his face was much swelled and bruised, and at every blow from Johnson, streams of blood iffused from his eyes. For about thirty minutes, without being able to ward off or strike a blow of any consequence, his whole frame shook and convulsed by his repeated falls and body blows, he courageously stood to be cut up, until it would have been madness, rather than valour, to have continued the conflict; and after the battle had lasted one hour and fourteen minutes, his brave contending heart was reluctantly compelled to yield the palm of victory to the superior skill and artifice of his antagonist. He gave out upon his legs, and leaning over the railing with his hand before his eyes, he sighed deeply, and showed how much his honest soul was affected at his defeat, and the consequent losses of his friends.

Perhaps no man was ever beaten for whom so much concern was expressed. Mendoza, Watson, and all the amateurs of this elegant amusement were present, and they declared they never saw so true a bottom, and pronounced him the best big man in the kingdom. The bets before the battle were seven to four on Johnson, towards the end of it, ten to one on him. The cause of the victory was obvious to every spectator. Perrins too confident in his strength, and relying solely upon it, had not undergone the necessary preparations; he was ignorant of the science of his antagonist, kept little or no guard, but laid himself perpetually open, and neither stopt or struck with skill. Indeed he can be said to have given but three blows, and those told—but he succeeded in one, which he often, and very judiciously attempted, it would have decided the contest; this was a blow at Johnson’s stomach, but it was always dexterously evaded. In short, he was beaten only by his adversary’s style of fighting, and Perrins certainly would not have engaged with him, had he not relied upon his standing to him more manfully.

On Friday Big Ben and Jacombs fought their battle, and after a contest of an hour and twenty-five minutes, Jacombs, who had at first evidently the advantage, was vanquished, as Perrins had been, by the skill of the experienced boxer.—For one hour Big Ben kept perpetually falling without receiving a blow. In about a quarter of an hour after they quitted the stage, George the Brewer, and Pickard (Perrins’s second) had perhaps the most bloody conflict that was ever remembered upon any stage.—This battle, though fought without any attempt at manœuvre or delay whatsoever, lasted half an hour; and less humanity, between man & man, was absolutely impossible.—Every savage ferocity seemed to possess the minds of the combatants, who, in their thirst for victory, were almost transported to madness; and Pickard, whose face resembled a mass of blood, without eye or feature, fought very hard for two minutes after he was blind. In this situation he was compelled to resign the victory to George.—Perrins came to see these two battles, and his friends were glad to find he was not so ill as they feared he would be.

[HomicideHenry]

https://georgianera.wordpress.com/2014/ ... lk-butcher

According to the records later Champion Jem Belcher was the grandson of Jack Slack. So here we have three generations of champions: Figg, Slack, Belcher.

Whether all this is true or not remains to be seen. However, I find it likely to be true because these individuals were within living memory of each other and if the claims were made, then it'd of been easily exposed as a lie if it was.

As for lineage... Ancestry has a helluva time trying to connect American Figg's let alone English Figg's to the James Figg... It seems despite this man being such a celebrity that nobody bothered to really make note of his descendants.

I did read one article that suggested that Jack Broughton may have been a son of Figg's but I think this is an error--- the author must have mistaken Broughton for Slack. However it's worth noting Broughton's theatre was next door to Figg's.

I will say from what I read, Figg was considered a far better sword & cudgel fighter & wrestler than a boxer. That apparently was his weakest ability.

[Bladder]

He was a great boxer for sure, though I think you'd have to say King had the better of their two fights.

I recently saw an old post where Senya shared this

Harold Furniss:

Most biographers of Sayers have amused themselves, if not the public, by speculating upon what would have happened had Sayers met certain other celebrities either before or after his time. Such speculations are idle and unprofitable. When people ask me what chance Sayers would have stood against Bendigo or Jem Mace, I simply say that, as a matter of cat, Tom never had to fight any man of the class of either of these, but I should have backed him in any company to hold his own with credit.

Probably most of my readers have heard the tale of Mace's challenge to Sayers, but it will bear repeating. One day, when Tom was in his cups at a little alehouse off the Fulham road, kept by once famous ten-mile runner, "Jenny" Jones, his eye happened to light on a picture representing Heenan, Sayers, and Mace. Taking up his stick, Tom staggered to the picture, and touching the likeness of the Benicia Boy, said, "He's a good man." Then, touching his own portrait, "And he's a good man; but this," he continued, indicating Mace, "is a bloomin' duffer." And forthwith he drove the point of his stick through the face of the portrait. Mace, who was present, naturally left annoyed and challenged Sayers there and then to fight him for any sum he liked. But Tom pleaded that he had retired, and that the mutilation was a joke. "Not," said Mace, when telling me the story, "that it would have been any credit for me to have beaten him, for he was then but a shattered wreck."

A fight between Sayers and Mace, each at his best, would no doubt have been a grand sight, unless Jem happened to be in one of his superstitious moods. Having seen both of them fight at their best, I will only say that, whilst in my opinion Mace was unquestionably the finer artist, Sayers was the finer fighter.

That was an interesting story until the last sentence.

Furniss was a young child of around four years of age when Sayers had his last fight!