Is Joshua the best Heavyweight ever

[Wuuupa]

It's WAY too early to try and rate Joshua.
Better to wait until his career is over and then judge him.

I make this argument anytime anybody ever tries to rank an active fighter in the annals of All Time status, but people just keep right on doing it anyway.

It would take an absolutely astonishing feat to be considered the best of all time while you were still active. It wouldn't be impossible I don't guess, but it's hard to imagine what kinda achievements you'd have to have under your belt to receive that kinda status while still an active fighter.

A lot said of jordan in his rookie year "the best player they have ever seen"

When i used to watch roy in the 90s i thought as many others "best boxer ever"

[gilgamesh]

It's WAY too early to try and rate Joshua.
Better to wait until his career is over and then judge him.

I make this argument anytime anybody ever tries to rank an active fighter in the annals of All Time status, but people just keep right on doing it anyway.

It would take an absolutely astonishing feat to be considered the best of all time while you were still active. It wouldn't be impossible I don't guess, but it's hard to imagine what kinda achievements you'd have to have under your belt to receive that kinda status while still an active fighter.

A lot said of jordan in his rookie year "the best player they have ever seen"

When i used to watch roy in the 90s i thought as many others "best boxer ever"

Ok

Thinking it, and it being so isn't exactly the same thing.

[Wuuupa]

I make this argument anytime anybody ever tries to rank an active fighter in the annals of All Time status, but people just keep right on doing it anyway.

It would take an absolutely astonishing feat to be considered the best of all time while you were still active. It wouldn't be impossible I don't guess, but it's hard to imagine what kinda achievements you'd have to have under your belt to receive that kinda status while still an active fighter.

A lot said of jordan in his rookie year "the best player they have ever seen"

When i used to watch roy in the 90s i thought as many others "best boxer ever"

Ok

Thinking it, and it being so isn't exactly the same thing.

Also in your criteria of who has the best record/achievemants is automaticly the goat cant be

Cause often enough a boxer who achieved way less than his opponent yet still beat him

[gilgamesh]

A lot said of jordan in his rookie year "the best player they have ever seen"

When i used to watch roy in the 90s i thought as many others "best boxer ever"

Ok

Thinking it, and it being so isn't exactly the same thing.

Also in your criteria of who has the best record/achievemants is automaticly the goat cant be

Cause often enough a boxer who achieved way less than his opponent yet still beat him

This usually happens because the fighter who achieved a lot more is a lot older, and no longer in his physical prime while the other guy is still young with everything to prove. Not always, but often this is the case.

[Wuuupa]

Ok

Thinking it, and it being so isn't exactly the same thing.

Also in your criteria of who has the best record/achievemants is automaticly the goat cant be

Cause often enough a boxer who achieved way less than his opponent yet still beat him

This usually happens because the fighter who achieved a lot more is a lot older, and no longer in his physical prime while the other guy is still young with everything to prove. Not always, but often this is the case.

So was gary russell way to old when he faced the previously unachieved lomachenko who had a record of 1 loss 1 win and gary 24 wins in 24 fights?

[gilgamesh]

Also in your criteria of who has the best record/achievemants is automaticly the goat cant be

Cause often enough a boxer who achieved way less than his opponent yet still beat him

This usually happens because the fighter who achieved a lot more is a lot older, and no longer in his physical prime while the other guy is still young with everything to prove. Not always, but often this is the case.

So was gary russell way to old when he faced the previously unachieved lomachenko who had a record of 1 loss 1 win and gary 24 wins in 24 fights?

Lomachenko is one of the greatest Amateurs of all time. A 2x Olympic Gold Medalist with a 396-1 record as an Amateur. He's not your average guy with so few fights. He was already an Elite talent well before he ever turned Pro.

[Wuuupa]

This usually happens because the fighter who achieved a lot more is a lot older, and no longer in his physical prime while the other guy is still young with everything to prove. Not always, but often this is the case.

So was gary russell way to old when he faced the previously unachieved lomachenko who had a record of 1 loss 1 win and gary 24 wins in 24 fights?

Lomachenko is one of the greatest Amateurs of all time. A 2x Olympic Gold Medalist with a 396-1 record as an Amateur. He's not your average guy with so few fights. He was already an Elite talent well before he ever turned Pro.

True

So was roy. When boxers like roy or loma are brilliant in the amateurs and brilliant in pro than why cant i consider as potential goats? Because they dont have over 150 fights like armstrong or robinson?

[candyslim]

It's way too early too early to say. People are usually slow to credit a fighter as being an ATG while they're still active never mind after 22 fights. Lennox Lewis was never respected the way he is today in the first half of his career.

I don't know but I imagine in the forties they were talking about Louis as being a bit stiff and lacking fluidity and head movement, being a bit chinny (Schmeling), fighting a succession of bums, and getting a complete boxing lesson from a Light-heavyweight (Conn)‘. It's natural that recognition is awarded much later, look at heavyweights Pyotr Tchaikovsky and Vincent Van Gogh to name but two

You can sneer about AJ's perceived shortcomings all you want, but so far he doesn't have a Ross Purity, a Hasim Rahman, a Leon Spinks and so on and so forth. Not a bad start I'd say but I'm resisting the urge to make extravagant claims for Joshua just yet.

[gilgamesh]

So was gary russell way to old when he faced the previously unachieved lomachenko who had a record of 1 loss 1 win and gary 24 wins in 24 fights?

Lomachenko is one of the greatest Amateurs of all time. A 2x Olympic Gold Medalist with a 396-1 record as an Amateur. He's not your average guy with so few fights. He was already an Elite talent well before he ever turned Pro.

True

So was roy. When boxers like roy or loma are brilliant in the amateurs and brilliant in pro than why cant i consider as potential goats? Because they dont have over 150 fights like armstrong or robinson?

Robinson was no slouch as an amateur either.

[MasterG]

OK, you are right.

That wasn't at you Val...it was a general response, just to be clear.

arrogant as well. On top of the low boxing knowledge

Wuuupa

Do you think Anthony Joshua is better than Frank Bruno, if you dont know who Bruno s here is his record.

http://boxrec.com/en/boxer/505

Also here is a photo of him too

photo hosting software


While you are considering that question in my opinion AJ while a decent fighter is very privileged to have won the titles he has in this era. Back in the 80's and 90's AJ would never have got past Mike Tyson and many people think Tyson is not worthy of a top 10 status. I like AJ but imo hes nothing better than Frank Bruno.

[Wuuupa]

It's way too early too early to say. People are usually slow to credit a fighter as being an ATG while they're still active never mind after 22 fights. Lennox Lewis was never respected the way he is today in the first half of his career.

I don't know but I imagine in the forties they were talking about Louis as being a bit stiff and lacking fluidity and head movement, being a bit chinny (Schmeling), fighting a succession of bums, and getting a complete boxing lesson from a Light-heavyweight (Conn)‘. It's natural that recognition is awarded much later, look at heavyweights Pyotr Tchaikovsky and Vincent Van Gogh to name but two

You can sneer about AJ's perceived shortcomings all you want, but so far he doesn't have a Ross Purity, a Hasim Rahman, a Leon Spinks and so on and so forth. Not a bad start I'd say but I'm resisting the urge to make extravagant claims for Joshua just yet.

Excellent post

Nostalgia is a hell of a power

[gilgamesh]

That wasn't at you Val...it was a general response, just to be clear.

arrogant as well. On top of the low boxing knowledge

Wuuupa

Do you think Anthony Joshua is better than Frank Bruno, if you dont know who Bruno s here is his record.

http://boxrec.com/en/boxer/505

Also here is a photo of him too

photo hosting software


While you are considering that question in my opinion AJ while a decent fighter is very privileged to have won the titles he has in this era. Back in the 80's and 90's AJ would never have got past Mike Tyson and many people think Tyson is not worthy of a top 10 status. I like AJ but imo hes nothing better than Frank Bruno.

He's already succeeded at a higher level than Bruno ever managed.

[jamamb]

lol apparently hes not in brunos league because bruno beat coetzee

[Ricky]

Joshua is a god damn bum. Can't wait to see this muscle-bound fool get starched by a real fighter like Whyte or Miller.

[candyslim]

It's way too early too early to say. People are usually slow to credit a fighter as being an ATG while they're still active never mind after 22 fights. Lennox Lewis was never respected the way he is today in the first half of his career.

I don't know but I imagine in the forties they were talking about Louis as being a bit stiff and lacking fluidity and head movement, being a bit chinny (Schmeling), fighting a succession of bums, and getting a complete boxing lesson from a Light-heavyweight (Conn)‘. It's natural that recognition is awarded much later, look at heavyweights Pyotr Tchaikovsky and Vincent Van Gogh to name but two

You can sneer about AJ's perceived shortcomings all you want, but so far he doesn't have a Ross Purity, a Hasim Rahman, a Leon Spinks and so on and so forth. Not a bad start I'd say but I'm resisting the urge to make extravagant claims for Joshua just yet.

Excellent post

Nostalgia is a hell of a power

Indeed it is. Thank for that.

I was a massive fan of Frank Bruno right back to when he was cutting a swathe through the amateurs (Anyone remember Rudy Pika btw?). I was biting my fingernails over his eyesight problems, whether he'd get a pro boxing license. He eventually did of course after having a procedure called radial keratotomy in Caracas, Venezuala.

So my opinion is one of a huge fan of both men and I say Frank, God bless him, was not in Joshua's league.

[Verdi]

He'd be lucky make the top 30.

[candyslim]

If you were around in 67 you'd have probably said the same about Cassius Clay. "Young whippersnapper would never have lived with Marciano. Now there was a fighter".

[danconnollyeire]

Fvck, asfkll is back

[danconnollyeire]

If he defeats Wilder, Fury and Usyk - he might be among the top 5.

I mean, yeah, defo, because Wilder, Fury are the absolute pinnacle of boxing, all time greats there.

[danconnollyeire]

If he defeats Wilder, Fury and Usyk - he might be among the top 5.

Top 5

He is much taller stronger than ali and louis, like a super heavyweight ag a heavyweight. In terms of record beating the best cw ever usyk and cleaning out the division reighing for a decade would put him up there with the axhievemants ali had.

Lets not forget, all so called atg top 3 hw had dark moments. Ali with his countless loses to norton (i know he got the gifts), marciano fighting 80% cab drivers same as louis.

Innit. Ali beat Foreman, Frazier, Liston, Patterson, Moore etc etc. Lewis beat Tyson, Vitali K, Holyfield, Bruno etc but AJ gets top 5 if he beats Wilder and Fury... it's funny. Wilder hasn't even beat a live fighter yet and he's 33

[Onetimeonly]

Fvck, asfkll is back

He has several accounts.

[Loki]

He's better than vitali. Hilarious people think he's an atg with zero wins of note.

Vitali would box AJs ears off.

[candyslim]

Fvck, asfkll is back

Calm down I'm not putting Ali down nor suggesting that Joshua is in his league yet, but I'm just making the point that even the greats were regarded as nothing special, for a part of, sometimes all of, their careers..

[squiggy]

So then this thread should be renamed "Is it theoretically possible that AJ will later be seen as the greatest ever?"

[Onetimeonly]

He's better than vitali. Hilarious people think he's an atg with zero wins of note.

Vitali would box AJs ears off.

Perhaps he would, he'd likely beat many fighters more accomplished than he is. Then again he lost to the two quality fighters to faced Joshua is already well beyond vitali.