Classic American West Coast Boxing

[dagosd2000]

A Defibrillator Named Cassius

When the sport of boxing began to catch my eye,a lot of my father's generation,including my father, started to walk away from it. This was the mid/late 50',early 60's.Marciano got tired of the way the gym smelled and dealing with his manager Al Weill. Joe Louis was now wrestling to try to settle with IRS. Floyd Patterson and Archie Moore squared off to see who would win the most coveted crown in the sport. Moore looked staler than poor house cake and Patterson, with his guru Cus D'Amato, stayed clear of the top three contenders,Liston,Machen ,and Folley,and decided what was best to keep Patterson's crown from getting knocked off his head was to do battle with the likes of Hurricane Tommy,Roy Cut And Shoot,a Swede the scribes called Ingo Bingo. Well,Johansson yelled "bingo" in The Garden after decking Floyd 7 times in three rounds.So the old timers concluded that since the days of the Brown Bomber and The Rock were only a memory,the heavyweight championship had morphed into something that inspired that B.B. King Song "The Thrill Is Gone."


An ex con with a murderous expression who called himself Sonny, who was chopping down all the men who dared to get into the ring with him like cordwood,had what was left of the fans clamoring for a match with him and Patterson. It was a time if you wanted to watch the heavyweight championship fight,you had to drive downtown to the movie theater and watch a pale image projected on the screen for around five bucks. Well, the Sonny and Floyd show lated less than 2 rounds in 2 fights.The way Sonny beat up Floyd I thought they might send him back to jail for assault and battery.


In the lighter divisions there no apparent saviors. Sugar Ray was over 40 years old and gighting in places like Savannah,Georgia and Tijuana bullrings. Archie Moore was cherry picking his opposition so they stripped him of his title.Benny Paret's death in New York raise a cause for the abolishment of the sport. The Golden Era of boxing in the Southland was 10 years in the future. Across the pond there was little going on.Europe was still trying to rebuild after the war.Arenas around the country stopped having their familiar weekly cards. The televised fights three nights a week sufficed for the time being.Of all the sports that were progressing not only in skill level,but popularity,boxing was headed in the opposite direction. How many times did I hear someone 40 years old say,"Boxing ain't what it used to be."


Well,you've all heard the expression ,"It's always darkest before the dawn".The 1960 Olympic Games were a bust for the good ol' USA. We lost big to our Cold War adversary Russia. They could not only send satellites into orbit,but winning gold medals in the track and field events,something that we always dominated.The U.S athletes. did however have some things to put on the front page of the sports section. There was this kid,a fighter, Cassius Clay from Kentucky that won a gold medal.He was cocky and brash and wouldn't stop talking,but we didn't mind that much because we didn't have a lot to cheer about after what happened in Rome.


Cassius reached out to his idol Ray Robinson for a boxing mentor,but Robinson didn't want to have the spotlight shining down on some young upstart from Louisville while Robby was wiping the sweat off Cassius's face waiting to go out for the next round. The Old Mongoose,Archie Moore,was Cassius's next choice. Moore was still fighting,barely,and took the young man with him to his training facilty in Ramona,California. it was a Spartan existence with a stern Mongoose wanting Cassius to emulate a style that was girded for the more traditional combatant. When Archie told Cassius to wash the dishes and sweep the floor,he told the old sage to put out the "To Let" sign on the door. Angelo Dundee was finally the right match. He let Cassius run around the house like a bratty child.Angelo also let Cassius fight anyway he wanted as long as he kept winning. Before the Doug Jones fight Dundee got bold and told Cassius to keep his hands up.I guess Angie wanted to act a little like he knew what he was talking about. After that fight Angelo just sat back and watched the kid break all his toys.

There was a storm out there that was festering,gaining speed,ready to evolve into a perfect cataclysm.It would be worldwide,but the seeds were planted in America.You can say the Beatles helped ,but with JFK getting killed,civil rights demonstrations,a war in a place called Vietnam and the draft being reinstituted,drugs of any make and model,the baby boomers flipping off mom and dad,females wanting free love as much as the males---well everything went BOOM!


Cassius Clay was going to be fed to that hungry bear Sonny.it wasn't 42 to 1,but it was the biggest upset in heavyweight championship history at the time. Then Cassius trades in his name and Christianity to devote himself to the Nation Of Islam and now wants to be called Muhammad Ali. That was more of a security risk than that ex con bear/man who called himself Sonny. The rematch made the old guard draw the line in the sand. The Vietnam War,the drugs,the blacks,the snotty kids who burned their draft cards,the loose women who burned their bras;it was America Love It Or leave Was there any white guy out there that can shut up this black pagan?If we can't get a white guy,we'll settle for another Joe Louis.


Now every time Muhammad Ali fought it was a worldwide spectacle. The old timers wanted his head on a platter.The baby boomers just kept putting up the middle finger. Boxing was breathing again,hard and fast.



I Am The Greatest

[dagosd2000]

The Night I Put The Lid On The Sugar Bowl

I always was rooting for Sugar Ray Robinson when he fought.When Carmen Basilio moved up in weight to fight Robinson for the middleweight championship my father faithfully assumed that I'd be on his side wanting Carmen to throw cold water on all his flash and glamor.Of course I said that I wanted Carmen to "win",but inside I was pulling for Sugar Ray. We were living in California at that time. If I had let on to my friends in the Southwest Side of Chicago that I hoped Robinson would merge victorious,they would have disowned me for being something amoral. I can here it now.
"What are you anyway?Some sort of a n----r lover?"
It didn't matter that Robinson was considered the greatest pound for pound fighter by about every follower of the sport. Thinking in the Italian neighborhood was that Robinson had had his way with just about all the dago talent that was offered up to him. Only Jake LaMotta had beat him,and that was comparable to Wellington's victory over Napoleon at Waterloo.Of course you'd get some hard stares if you mentioned Jake's losses to Robinson.But Robinson had notched names like Angott,Janazzo,Lello,Fusari,and Graziano into the butt of his shootin' iron and that didn't sit well with the paisans. That's why when Marciano belted a geriatric Joe Louis through the ropes at Madison Square Garden, there was dancing in the intersections on Taylor Street.


When Basilio got his shot with Robinson he was plenty motivated. He thought Robinson had snubbed him and his wife in New York City when Carmen wanted to shake hands and introduce himself.But that was typical Robinson. Carmen was like a sedan and Sugar Ray was like his pink Cadillac--all glitz and show. He liked a crowd around him,but he wouldn't let anyone get too close. in the ring he was the epitome of the complete fighter. Outside the ring he was a thesis for a psychology Phd.But adding all the pizzazz with his talent,made him a target for all the other fighters. To be the first to bring down Sugar Ray Robinson,if you did nothing else,would transplant you into the Buster Douglas of your day.

I heard the Basilio fight on the radio with my father. I always thought the blow by blow call of a fight announcer on the radio was the hardest to do,yet the most exciting to listen to.The matchmakers knew Yankee Stadium would be a sell out. When Johnnie Addie announced Basilio the winner the emotion in his corner was off the Richter Scale. Robinson,it was hard to see what was going on in his mind..He was calm,like a still boat on a glassy Lake Placid.


But since Robinson's comeback as a middleweight he was struggling. The added weight of the middleweight,a two year layoff,his time clock ticking--he was entering his twilight as a fighter. The brilliance had diminished into ebb and flow struggles. His legs couldn't respond like they did in the old days. Robinson said that after losing the title to Randy Turpin that he was a little awed by the massiveness of Randy's upper body. Well,Robinson was to see a lot a big pecs across the ring from his corner. Gene Fullmer was one of those genuine middleweights.Robinson was a blown up 160 pounder. in fact he never tipped the scales at 160 pounds fighting in that division..With his legs lagging,he had to stand toe to toe with the bigger guys now. His comeback fights resembled what Muhammad had proved when he came back from exile to the doubters --he could take it.

Robinson beat Carmen in the rematch,but had had enough of him. There would be no rubber match.Instead he gave Paul Pender a payday.Pender was no Basilio and was looking at 5 to 1 odds,him on the short end. The fight was on TV.It turned out to be one of the most boring fights I had ever seen.Robinson looked sick. A lot of clinches.Few credible exchanges. Robinson lost the split decision,but i think the judges were somewhat sentimental with their scoring pens.I knew then that it was over. He was ready for the fork to get stuck in him.Maybe Robinson knew it too,but he was that enigma wrapped up in a puzzle. He would fight 38 more fights.Included in that 38 was another chance at Pender. It was deja vu ala the first fight.He was still a draw,but becoming more of a curiosity piece.He fought some name guys:Fullmer again,Joey Giardello,Terry Downes.He was starting to lose. After coming back he lost 17 times. I saw him lose to the local,Memo Ayon in the Tijuana bullring When pitter patter punching Joey Archer knocked Ray off his feet in Pittsburgh ,Ray stopped. Who knows why?He should have called it quits earlier,but as great a fighter as he was,he couldn't handle his money like he did with outsmarting Kid Gavilan or Henry Armstrong.


At the end he married a gal on the West Coast that manipulated him and kept him out of the way of his family. He was in a lot of pain,and with the meds and all the punches he took ,he was going down hill fast.He would sometimes frequent the Main Street Gym and don a rubber suit. He'd hit the heavy bag murmering that he had to get ready for Lamotta. When he passed there were no Pink Cadillacs, just a card table in his small apartment displaying all his trophies and title belts.I saw him once with my father in San Diego.That was 1968 before the Luis Rodriguez fight with Rafael Gutirrez.My father walked up to him and put his arm around his shoulder.My father knew him from back in Chicago.
"Hey Sugar.How's it going?"
I don't think it crossed my father's mind to think of him as anyone else than The Greatest Fighter Pound For Pound.



Sugar Ray Robinson

[dagosd2000]

Can't Win For Losing, Even If You're Undefeated


No fighter escapes criticism no matter how great he is(or was).Two fighters that don't get a pass from condemnation are Rocky Marciano and Floyd Mayweather Jr.---both undefeated champions.On forums of all types and genres ,there's the ratings,rankings,the lists.Like searching for the Holy Grail,the quest is for who was the best,the epitome of pugilists,the numero uno. With boxing the weight divisions can separate the assessments. Let's face it Willie pep ain't gonna' beat Joe Louis.But could a 5"'10, 184 pound Marciano beat a 6'7",235 pound Deontay Wilder? if either of them had lost a fight,that would be evidence that would have to be shown in court. Losing,the number of losses, are boxing toxins when it comes time to sit down and have an intelligent discussion.But wait a minute.Quality of opposition is right up there.But then assessing a fighter's opponents is a catalyst that sparks more canny give and take. I don't mind when a fan opines that Marciano's reach would be a handicap , or he was too short,or that he made his reputation against fighters that were past their primes.Valid points. But I always look at the other side of the coin when it comes to debating. I could presume that Marciano's weight,height,and caliber of opponents were valid---even strengths when putting together an argument.


I use to work under a head coach for the high school football team. He left it up to me to come up with a offensive plan for the upcoming game. After spending countless hours studying the other team on film,personally scouting their games,and judging the strengths of the teams that they played,Then I'd sit down with the head coach and show him what I thought what we could do to win. He'd look at my diagrams,notes,plays that I thought would work and the plays we should not let out of the playbook.He'd go through what I had put together, then squint,murmer,furrow his brows,shake his head.He looked liked the Sloppy Joes that he ate for lunch was giving him heartburn.
"Well,what if they do this?"he'd ask with a pained expression.
I always knew he'd find something wrong,a chink in the armor.I never thought he had that much on the ball for being a head coach for so long.I played for him when I was in school,and 25 years later he took me on to be a coach. I have to thank him (God rest his soul) for the opportunity.But it still bothered me when he'd find fault.Like people ,game plans aren't infallible. But I would always give him my stock answer.
"Well,if they do that, then we'll have to adjust."
You never know until you play the game or when the boys get into the ring.A fighter's ability to adjust is a primary consideration.

What I like though are the smug responses with some of the posters.The curt remarks. Marciano and Floyd Jr. are always up for grabs because their records are unblemished. When it gets to the point that Hall Of Fame fighters are dismissed,try to keep in mind,your talking about a guy that was the champ. But I shouldn't be throwing stones either because I used to be like the biblical David. When I catch myself slinging some mud,I think,"Who in the hell am I?"The Confederate general Nathan Bedford Forrest once remarked that when he saw a pen it reminded him of a snake. Words travel a hell of a lot more distance than a straight right hand.You can hide behind a keyboard and then go to bed and rest your head on a nice soft pillow.I don't think there's an athlete alive that has anxiety attacks because someone on a blog site says he's "a bum." I could write the biggest book on the sport,but all it would be to a fighters is a mass of wood pulp.


Sports writers are always looking for an angle. Often that slant is a kick in the face,especially ,in boxing, if a fighter loses.I'm at an age where I look at a lot of girls who could beat me up. But I don't care anymore about who could whip me.At my age It's not knowing how to fight,it's knowing when..But even if that moment presents itself,I'll be lucky if I wind up black and blue.



Floyd Mayweather Jr.

[dagosd2000]

Merry Christmas BoxRec

[scartissue]

Merry Christmas, Rog, and to all at Classic American West Coast Boxing

[dagosd2000]

Merry Christmas, Rog, and to all at Classic American West Coast Boxing

Thanks Dan.Look forward to seeing you again.

[dagosd2000]

d

[dagosd2000]

The Talk Around Town

There was a lot of talk about Jose Napoles going up in weight and fight Carlos Monzon for his middleweight crown. Prior to his fight with Monzon in February of 1974,Napoles had only lost twice in over 50 fights. I didn't want to use the word "defeated" because those two blemishes were times when his delicate eyebrows came apart against L.C. Morgan and Billy Backus. Jose had Ko'd Morgan twice before in Mexico.After losing on the cut,again in Mexico,they met for a fourth time,again in Mexico,Jose stopping L.C. easily.The first Backus fight, fought in Billy's backyard in Syracuse,Jose was bleeding again from a cut over his eye. The ring doc,when called over to examine the damage,said he could see Jose's skull.End of fight.The title rematch was in Los Angeles.In the opening first seconds of the opening round,the eye cut opened again.Napoles pawed the blood with his glove like nothing happened and went to cut up Billy and floor him twice. After the 7th round the ring doc told referee Dick Young to stop the fight. After re winning the title Napoles went up in weight fighting at 150 pounds and had 3 fights looking good against average fighters. There were title fights with Hedgemon Lewis who kept away from any exchanges ,Indian Red's futile second try,Adolph Pruit who didn't come close, an uninpsired win over Ralph Charles in jolly 'ol England,Menetrey and Gray also ho hummers.Napoles seemed like he was bored with the welterweight division.A bored fighter is leaving his chin exposed. Sooner or later a young lion will jump into the ring and have his dinner.Jose needed a challenge, and wasn't going to find it at 147 pounds.


In February of 1973 Muhammad Ali swung into San Diego to have more or less a tune up fight with local Kenny Norton.Ali surmised that after having a "workout"against Norton,Ali would have one of those Fights Of The Century,this one against George Foreman. I went down to the Town and Country Hotel in Mission Valley to see Ali wrap up his training the last two weeks.I saw Angelo Dundee in the coffee shop one afternoon by himself.I got the urge to put in my two cents so I walked over to where he was sitting. He knew my father from where I don't know,but my father had his arm wrapped around Angelo's shoulder as Dundee walked back to the dressing room after his fighter,Luis Rodriguez, had just taken out Rafael Gutierrez with a single left hook. That was a title eliminator for the chance to fight for Carlos Monzon's crown.Anyway ,Dundee looked up at me and wondered who I was.
"Angelo,"I said anxiously,"Jose Napoles can beat Monzon."
That was it.That's all I said. Don't get me wrong.It wasn't the first time Dundee had heard that suggestion. Then one day he whispered it into Jose's ear.
"You can beat Carlos Monzon."


They put the match together in Paris. They built an arena in a parking lot. Monzon was no stranger to Europe.He was very continental.The fans in Paris,Rome,Copenhagen;they were captivated by him. The jet setters,the chic and beautiful starlets, thought he was handsome,full of bravado, and besides, Carlos had erased the former European eye catcher from the marquis ,Nino Benvenuti.Jose,on the other hand was the Cuban turned Mexican macho hombre that wouldn't have looked apropos at the roulette wheel at Monte Carlo with a Catherine Deneuve on his arm. But what the hell does all that pap have to do with prizefighting?


The aficianados in the Southland and Mexico believed Napoles would not only beat Monzon,but win impressively. Sugar Ray Robinson ,after watching the second Indian Red Lopez fight with Jose,proclaimed that Napoles was the best P4P in boxing. All the Mexican sport pages and boxing magazines had already pre announced Napoles as the champ. I thought Napoles would win too, cut or no cut.


I went down to Tijuana to watch the fight.Jose had tipped the scales at 153 pounds. When the two fighters were brought together ring center for instructions,Jose looked tiny in comparision to Monzon. Instead of a 7 pound weight advantage,it looked like Carlos had at least ten or twelve pounds on him. Carlos Monzon was not the most fluid guy in the ring,but he had a lot of natural power that compensated for any lack of skills. When the bell rang for the first round Napoles moved into him. He was outsmarting Monzon ,landing shots with little effect,but still doing enough to be ahead early. However, when they clinched, the apparant size difference was plain to see. Monzon would wrap his cabled arms around Jose's frame and try to twist him into a pretzel. All I was hoping for was that Jose was in shape and that he wanted to let it all hang out. It was neither. Though Jose was ahead early,what bothered me was he wasn't moving around the ring with that efficient fluid motion. His legs had a loginess. His attack was ponderous.His attitude needed to get an attitude. My mind was telling me that something was going to break. That break showed itself when Jose's paper thin peepers started to ooze blood. But instead of that igniting a spark,Jose stood there like a big pail of water had been poured on his head.Carlos began to load up his big guns. I thought Jose was going to get knocked out in the 6th round. At the bell he staggered back to his corner.I could tell by his demeanor that the fight was out of him. He didn't have it in him to rally back.At the bell for round 7 Jose had his back resting against the corner ropes.

I felt that my favorite fighter had let me down. He had disappointed his aficianados.Most of all he had failed himself.Afterwards, he said that Monzon had thumbed him and that he didn't want to permanently damage his eye. I certainly didn't repeat that comment to anyone.Monzon, however, commented that he was surprised how slow Napoles was. I'm sure Angelo Dundee never whispered in Jose's ear ever again.and there was no talk around town about a rematch.


Hmmm....

[chrisjs1985]

The size was too much to overcome. Napoles really would have been best suited to 140 whereas in the current era Monzon would likely even be at 168. Napoles was a better fighter in my view and did well enough in the early going but that size difference was huge. Monzon was a great fighter and a fighter that really knew how to use his strengths and opponents weaknesses to maximum affect but he wasn't a smooth or pretty enough boxer for me to enjoy as much as others do especially compared to the pleasure I get out of watching Mantequilla.

[dagosd2000]

The size was too much to overcome. Napoles really would have been best suited to 140 whereas in the current era Monzon would likely even be at 168. Napoles was a better fighter in my view and did well enough in the early going but that size difference was huge. Monzon was a great fighter and a fighter that really knew how to use his strengths and opponents weaknesses to maximum affect but he wasn't a smooth or pretty enough boxer for me to enjoy as much as others do especially compared to the pleasure I get out of watching Mantequilla.
[/quote

Chris
I agree with you that Napoles was best suited at Junior Welterweight or even Lightweight.If given the opportunities in the 60's by the representative champions he would have won both titles.I saw him fight in Tijuana just before he went up to LA to fight Cokes. Jose weighed 138 pounds.However,Napoles's performance against Monzon was disgraceful. Griffith,another natural welter who Jose beat easily(and I know someone is going to say Emile was past his prime and drained to make the weight.He actually weighed less than Napoles when they fought.When I asked Griffith about that fight he made no excuses.He said Jose was better than him that night).But getting back to Jose's effort against Carlos. Napoles didn't train for 15 rounds.In the 5th round when his eye opened up,he quit.Instead of fighting desperately letting it all hang out,he quit. He was a quitter in that fight. And he ended it by quitting on his stool.Sure, Carlos was taller.had the reach,was heavier,but Napoles,if he had shown his old stuff,he could have out boxed him.Instead he was out of shape and the fire inside him had been extinguished two or three years earlier. There were signs of it in the Gray and Menetrey fights. After the Monzon fight he fights a frailer Lewis at altitude in Mexico City,an average opponent in Saldano,and then underestimates Muniz. He should have lost that night in Acapulco. In their next fight,which Jose won in another brutal contest,he should have retired. But he thinks he can beat Stracey in Mexico,but again,doesn't want to put in the necessary training.When Napoles still had his greatness in the 60's and then when he came to the U.S. and beat Cokes,Lopez,Griffith,and Lewis, he was a beautiful sight to behold in the ring. At the end,he became a tragic figure who thought all he had to do is show to win.He will always be my favorite fighter because I'll draw on the memories of his fights when he was in his prime and didn't let go of the rope. Monzon,Muniz,Stracey---Jose used that rope to hang himself.

Me and my favorite fighter

[dagosd2000]

He Can Do Whatever He Wants


It was Joe DiMaggio who said" If an athlete has his legs he can do whatever he wants." DiMaggio had always had problems with his legs(mostly his ankles).He missed a lot of playing time because of the pain in his ankles.I think he missed 5 opening day games because he couldn't run out to the field.But you don't have to be an athlete to appreciate what your legs do for you. I'm having problems with arthritis in my hips. I can't run,hardly walk,screw pathetically,and I'm in constant pain.With a fighter ,if he starts to downslide, the old saying is,"He's lost his legs." That was never more apparant than with Muhammad Ali and Sugar Ray Robinson. When Ali came back from banishment after 3 years,the Quarry fight was over too quick for us to pick up on how Muhammad's pins were betraying him .When he went in there in his next fight with a ;pondorous bull called Ringo,it was evident for all the world to see that Ali had slipped badly.We'd never see the "old" Ali again. Now it would be the literal old Ali we'd have to settle on.His legs were gone. No more floating.The air had been let out of the tires.


For me there were five fighters I have seen that were the epitome of movement in the ring.:Willie Pep,Jose Legra,Luis Rodriguez,Emile Griffith,and Muhammad Ali. They bounced around the ring like they had springs in their legs. Once they got wound up they never stopped. Ali always said that his idol was Sugar Ray,but his style was more like Luis Rodriguez's.Luis was with Angelo Dundee when Cassius Clay arrived on the scene in Miami. Cassius Clay had the potential to emulate Luis's style. Call it potential,talent,ability;not everyone can say "I think I'll fight like Cassius Clay." But great fighters have great legs too. Their wheels get them into position to punch,slip,move away,and even to take a punch. If you watch a great fighter's legs ,like Mayweather for example,it's the way he shifts his feet at the right time.We too often become myopic and just see the hands,but if the feet are out of whack,the hands won't do the job. Fighters like Liston,Foreman,and Tyson just came in and destroyed,but it was the fighters who had better feet,along with the other skills,that beat these guys. Every time I watch the Douglas/Tyson fight,I'm amazed at Buster's foot movement, He was like a cat.That night in Tokyo he shifted his feet like Jackie Stewart shifting the gears in his Formula 1 car Douglas kept Tyson off balance all night.Mike could never set himself.


Chris from the forum commented on the Napoles/Monzon fight. That fight always stuck in my craw. In fact I got so carried away with my response while I typed that I went from the past tense to the present. It's one thing if your legs go because of advancing age,but if you can't get your legs to respond because you haven't put in the quality miles on the road,shame on you.Take for instance Napoles's last exhibition against Stacey. I can see Jose in that 6th round,his life's blood draining,trudging out to the middle of the ring,his legs planted so very wide apart. I think of myself now when I watch that. Jose could hardly walk out there to take his beating.,not to mention what that does to your sex life


The great Emile Griffith with my wife,Maria. She's great too

[chrisjs1985]

The size was too much to overcome. Napoles really would have been best suited to 140 whereas in the current era Monzon would likely even be at 168. Napoles was a better fighter in my view and did well enough in the early going but that size difference was huge. Monzon was a great fighter and a fighter that really knew how to use his strengths and opponents weaknesses to maximum affect but he wasn't a smooth or pretty enough boxer for me to enjoy as much as others do especially compared to the pleasure I get out of watching Mantequilla.
[/quote

Chris
I agree with you that Napoles was best suited at Junior Welterweight or even Lightweight.If given the opportunities in the 60's by the representative champions he would have won both titles.I saw him fight in Tijuana just before he went up to LA to fight Cokes. Jose weighed 138 pounds.However,Napoles's performance against Monzon was disgraceful. Griffith,another natural welter who Jose beat easily(and I know someone is going to say Emile was past his prime and drained to make the weight.He actually weighed less than Napoles when they fought.When I asked Griffith about that fight he made no excuses.He said Jose was better than him that night).But getting back to Jose's effort against Carlos. Napoles didn't train for 15 rounds.In the 5th round when his eye opened up,he quit.Instead of fighting desperately letting it all hang out,he quit. He was a quitter in that fight. And he ended it by quitting on his stool.Sure, Carlos was taller.had the reach,was heavier,but Napoles,if he had shown his old stuff,he could have out boxed him.Instead he was out of shape and the fire inside him had been extinguished two or three years earlier. There were signs of it in the Gray and Menetrey fights. After the Monzon fight he fights a frailer Lewis at altitude in Mexico City,an average opponent in Saldano,and then underestimates Muniz. He should have lost that night in Acapulco. In their next fight,which Jose won in another brutal contest,he should have retired. But he thinks he can beat Stracey in Mexico,but again,doesn't want to put in the necessary training.When Napoles still had his greatness in the 60's and then when he came to the U.S. and beat Cokes,Lopez,Griffith,and Lewis, he was a beautiful sight to behold in the ring. At the end,he became a tragic figure who thought all he had to do is show to win.He will always be my favorite fighter because I'll draw on the memories of his fights when he was in his prime and didn't let go of the rope. Monzon,Muniz,Stracey---Jose used that rope to hang himself.

Me and my favorite fighter

I wish there was available footage of his fights prior to his welterweight fights. I think I've only seen two or three of his pre-Cokes fights. I'd love to see the fights with Perkins, Vasquez, Urbina, Morgan etc; I can't help but think Napoles and Carlos Ortiz would have been a natural trilogy at 135 if Napoles looked as good at that weight as he did as an undersized welterweight. I have Ortiz ranked in my all-time top three at lightweight and Napoles around the same at welterweight. Both had to go around the block a few times before their legendary reigns started.

[chrisjs1985]

Cool picture. Is Griffith's book a good read? I've been meaning to get it. I remember I went to NYC for Trinidad-Mayorga in 2004 and my hotel was the Hotel Pennsylvania right across from MSG and as I get out of my cab Griffith was just walking down the street totally unrecognized. This was about 3 days before the fight.

Napoles-Stracey is tough viewing. It's a great achievement for Stracey but Napoles had been sliding as you'd said. Sometimes the wheels come off spectacularly.

There's few fighters today that use what I'd call great footwork. Lomachenko is an artist and about as good as it gets in that department but there may be even fewer than can box and move with use of great feet AND legs like the guys you mentioned. Rodriguez is one of my absolute favorite fighters in history. He was just doing so much at the same time pretty much all night. As I've said before I felt he won at least three of the Griffith fights and when I think of the welterweights who I'd favor him head-to-head the list is incredibly short. Great legs, speed, movement, body punches, busy hands, iron chin and marvelous skills. What a fighter. He was a great middleweight too. I can't help but think if he gets the official wins in Griffith III and/or IV he'd have been the one fighting Dick Tiger and he'd have beaten him. It's likely he then beats Benvenutti also since he was basically schooling him (when they did fight years later) until that monster hook when he was shopworn already. Rodriguez purely as a fighter in the same class as Leonard, Hagler, Monzon etc; it's too bad a couple of bum decisions prevent that claim.

He Can Do Whatever He Wants


It was Joe DiMaggio who said" If an athlete has his legs he can do whatever he wants." DiMaggio had always had problems with his legs(mostly his ankles).He missed a lot of playing time because of the pain in his ankles.I think he missed 5 opening day games because he couldn't run out to the field.But you don't have to be an athlete to appreciate what your legs do for you. I'm having problems with arthritis in my hips. I can't run,hardly walk,screw pathetically,and I'm in constant pain.With a fighter ,if he starts to downslide, the old saying is,"He's lost his legs." That was never more apparant than with Muhammad Ali and Sugar Ray Robinson. When Ali came back from banishment after 3 years,the Quarry fight was over too quick for us to pick up on how Muhammad's pins were betraying him .When he went in there in his next fight with a ;pondorous bull called Ringo,it was evident for all the world to see that Ali had slipped badly.We'd never see the "old" Ali again. Now it would be the literal old Ali we'd have to settle on.His legs were gone. No more floating.The air had been let out of the tires.


For me there were five fighters I have seen that were the epitome of movement in the ring.:Willie Pep,Jose Legra,Luis Rodriguez,Emile Griffith,and Muhammad Ali. They bounced around the ring like they had springs in their legs. Once they got wound up they never stopped. Ali always said that his idol was Sugar Ray,but his style was more like Luis Rodriguez's.Luis was with Angelo Dundee when Cassius Clay arrived on the scene in Miami. Cassius Clay had the potential to emulate Luis's style. Call it potential,talent,ability;not everyone can say "I think I'll fight like Cassius Clay." But great fighters have great legs too. Their wheels get them into position to punch,slip,move away,and even to take a punch. If you watch a great fighter's legs ,like Mayweather for example,it's the way he shifts his feet at the right time.We too often become myopic and just see the hands,but if the feet are out of whack,the hands won't do the job. Fighters like Liston,Foreman,and Tyson just came in and destroyed,but it was the fighters who had better feet,along with the other skills,that beat these guys. Every time I watch the Douglas/Tyson fight,I'm amazed at Buster's foot movement, He was like a cat.That night in Tokyo he shifted his feet like Jackie Stewart shifting the gears in his Formula 1 car Douglas kept Tyson off balance all night.Mike could never set himself.


Chris from the forum commented on the Napoles/Monzon fight. That fight always stuck in my craw. In fact I got so carried away with my response while I typed that I went from the 3rd person to the 1st. It's one thing if your legs go because of advancing age,but if you can't get your legs to respond because you haven't put in the quality miles on the road,shame on you.Take for instance Napoles's last exhibition against Stacey. I can see Jose in that 6th round,his life's blood draining,trudging out to the middle of the ring,his legs planted so very wide apart. I think of myself now when I watch that. Jose could hardly walk out there to take his beating.,not to mention what that does to your sex life


The great Emile Griffith with my wife,Maria. She's great too

[dagosd2000]

The size was too much to overcome. Napoles really would have been best suited to 140 whereas in the current era Monzon would likely even be at 168. Napoles was a better fighter in my view and did well enough in the early going but that size difference was huge. Monzon was a great fighter and a fighter that really knew how to use his strengths and opponents weaknesses to maximum affect but he wasn't a smooth or pretty enough boxer for me to enjoy as much as others do especially compared to the pleasure I get out of watching Mantequilla.
[/quote

Chris
I agree with you that Napoles was best suited at Junior Welterweight or even Lightweight.If given the opportunities in the 60's by the representative champions he would have won both titles.I saw him fight in Tijuana just before he went up to LA to fight Cokes. Jose weighed 138 pounds.However,Napoles's performance against Monzon was disgraceful. Griffith,another natural welter who Jose beat easily(and I know someone is going to say Emile was past his prime and drained to make the weight.He actually weighed less than Napoles when they fought.When I asked Griffith about that fight he made no excuses.He said Jose was better than him that night).But getting back to Jose's effort against Carlos. Napoles didn't train for 15 rounds.In the 5th round when his eye opened up,he quit.Instead of fighting desperately letting it all hang out,he quit. He was a quitter in that fight. And he ended it by quitting on his stool.Sure, Carlos was taller.had the reach,was heavier,but Napoles,if he had shown his old stuff,he could have out boxed him.Instead he was out of shape and the fire inside him had been extinguished two or three years earlier. There were signs of it in the Gray and Menetrey fights. After the Monzon fight he fights a frailer Lewis at altitude in Mexico City,an average opponent in Saldano,and then underestimates Muniz. He should have lost that night in Acapulco. In their next fight,which Jose won in another brutal contest,he should have retired. But he thinks he can beat Stracey in Mexico,but again,doesn't want to put in the necessary training.When Napoles still had his greatness in the 60's and then when he came to the U.S. and beat Cokes,Lopez,Griffith,and Lewis, he was a beautiful sight to behold in the ring. At the end,he became a tragic figure who thought all he had to do is show to win.He will always be my favorite fighter because I'll draw on the memories of his fights when he was in his prime and didn't let go of the rope. Monzon,Muniz,Stracey---Jose used that rope to hang himself.

Me and my favorite fighter

I wish there was available footage of his fights prior to his welterweight fights. I think I've only seen two or three of his pre-Cokes fights. I'd love to see the fights with Perkins, Vasquez, Urbina, Morgan etc; I can't help but think Napoles and Carlos Ortiz would have been a natural trilogy at 135 if Napoles looked as good at that weight as he did as an undersized welterweight. I have Ortiz ranked in my all-time top three at lightweight and Napoles around the same at welterweight. Both had to go around the block a few times before their legendary reigns started.

Chris
THERE ARE FILMS OF THOSE FIGHTS.When I was doing my bar hopping in Tijuana when I was first married(we'd go down to see my wife's mother.This was in the 70's),on Sunday afternoons,there was a program that featured replays of the current fights and then at the end of the show,they'd show old fights of the great Mexican fighters. Napoles was still fighting at that time,but i remember seeing his fights with Carlos Hernandez,Baby Vasquez,L.C. Morgan,and Eddie Perkins. He bounced around a lot then.Later he flattened out to get more power in his punches. The point is that those fights exist. They are declared "national treasures" by the government. They are not shown on TV because the government thinks they'll be pirated. But it isn't just the Napoles fights that are kept in the vault. I remember seeing Raton Macias,Joe Medel,even old timers like Kid Azteca. The Mexican revolution of 1910 has always interested me. I had an old timer friend named Wally O'Campo. He worked for the Mexican Consulate in San Diego. He also swam the butterfly for the Mexican Olympic Teams in 52 and 56. Well,we were pals. He got very sick at the end and I would go over to visit him. One day he showed me a 4 volume collection of photographs of the Mexican Revolution of 1910 taken by Jose Casasola(Mexico's counterpart to our Matthew Brady)I couldn't believe all the pictures of Villa,Zapata,Madero,and all the other famous figures of that time.I asked Wally why these pictures aren't out there for the world to see.He told me that the government won't release them to the public.Some kind of international copywrite law. He told me he was close to Jose Casasola and when Casasola died he left the volumes with him. Wally's daughter then gave them to me knowing how much I was interested in the Revolution and was a pal to her dad.. But aside from this book,these pictures are also under lock and key with the Mexican government. More national treasures.I can't see why the Mexican government wants to protect its of fighters or fighters in the Revolution from people like myself that find this kind of stuff fascinating.



Pancho Villa

[dagosd2000]

Carlos Ortiz at the World Boxing Hall Of Fame ceremony.He came out from New York his wife and Gaspar Ortega and his wife.

[chrisjs1985]

I wish there was available footage of his fights prior to his welterweight fights. I think I've only seen two or three of his pre-Cokes fights. I'd love to see the fights with Perkins, Vasquez, Urbina, Morgan etc; I can't help but think Napoles and Carlos Ortiz would have been a natural trilogy at 135 if Napoles looked as good at that weight as he did as an undersized welterweight. I have Ortiz ranked in my all-time top three at lightweight and Napoles around the same at welterweight. Both had to go around the block a few times before their legendary reigns started.

Chris
THERE ARE FILMS OF THOSE FIGHTS.When I was doing my bar hopping in Tijuana when I was first married(we'd go down to see my wife's mother.This was in the 70's),on Sunday afternoons,there was a program that featured replays of the current fights and then at the end of the show,they'd show old fights of the great Mexican fighters. Napoles was still fighting at that time,but i remember seeing his fights with Carlos Hernandez,Baby Vasquez,L.C. Morgan,and Eddie Perkins. He bounced around a lot then.Later he flattened out to get more power in his punches. The point is that those fights exist. They are declared "national treasures" by the government. They are not shown on TV because the government thinks they'll be pirated. But it isn't just the Napoles fights that are kept in the vault. I remember seeing Raton Macias,Joe Medel,even old timers like Kid Azteca. The Mexican revolution of 1910 has always interested me. I had an old timer friend named Wally O'Campo. He worked for the Mexican Consulate in San Diego. He also swam the butterfly for the Mexican Olympic Teams in 52 and 56. Well,we were pals. He got very sick at the end and I would go over to visit him. One day he showed me a 4 volume collection of photographs of the Mexican Revolution of 1910 taken by Jose Casasola(Mexico's counterpart to our Matthew Brady)I couldn't believe all the pictures of Villa,Zapata,Madero,and all the other famous figures of that time.I asked Wally why these pictures aren't out there for the world to see.He told me that the government won't release them to the public.Some kind of international copywrite law. He told me he was close to Jose Casasola and when Casasola died he left the volumes with him. Wally's daughter then gave them to me knowing how much I was interested in the Revolution and was a pal to her dad.. But aside from this book,these pictures are also under lock and key with the Mexican government. More national treasures.I can't see why the Mexican government wants to protect its of fighters or fighters in the Revolution from people like myself that find this kind of stuff fascinating.



Pancho Villa

I'd heard about that archiving by the government. I wonder what it would take to get the fights. There's so many fights they probably have and really they are doing nothing with them. I'd imagine Eder Jofre vs. Vicente Saldivar was televised in Mexico. I'd love to see that one.

Luckily I found Jose Medel-Jesus Pimentel not too long ago and that was a great fight. I wish I could see Medel vs. Toluco Lopez fights and others as many as possible between that golden era of Mexico City bantamweights.

[dagosd2000]

Chris
THERE ARE FILMS OF THOSE FIGHTS.When I was doing my bar hopping in Tijuana when I was first married(we'd go down to see my wife's mother.This was in the 70's),on Sunday afternoons,there was a program that featured replays of the current fights and then at the end of the show,they'd show old fights of the great Mexican fighters. Napoles was still fighting at that time,but i remember seeing his fights with Carlos Hernandez,Baby Vasquez,L.C. Morgan,and Eddie Perkins. He bounced around a lot then.Later he flattened out to get more power in his punches. The point is that those fights exist. They are declared "national treasures" by the government. They are not shown on TV because the government thinks they'll be pirated. But it isn't just the Napoles fights that are kept in the vault. I remember seeing Raton Macias,Joe Medel,even old timers like Kid Azteca. The Mexican revolution of 1910 has always interested me. I had an old timer friend named Wally O'Campo. He worked for the Mexican Consulate in San Diego. He also swam the butterfly for the Mexican Olympic Teams in 52 and 56. Well,we were pals. He got very sick at the end and I would go over to visit him. One day he showed me a 4 volume collection of photographs of the Mexican Revolution of 1910 taken by Jose Casasola(Mexico's counterpart to our Matthew Brady)I couldn't believe all the pictures of Villa,Zapata,Madero,and all the other famous figures of that time.I asked Wally why these pictures aren't out there for the world to see.He told me that the government won't release them to the public.Some kind of international copywrite law. He told me he was close to Jose Casasola and when Casasola died he left the volumes with him. Wally's daughter then gave them to me knowing how much I was interested in the Revolution and was a pal to her dad.. But aside from this book,these pictures are also under lock and key with the Mexican government. More national treasures.I can't see why the Mexican government wants to protect its of fighters or fighters in the Revolution from people like myself that find this kind of stuff fascinating.



Pancho Villa

I'd heard about that archiving by the government. I wonder what it would take to get the fights. There's so many fights they probably have and really they are doing nothing with them. I'd imagine Eder Jofre vs. Vicente Saldivar was televised in Mexico. I'd love to see that one.

Luckily I found Jose Medel-Jesus Pimentel not too long ago and that was a great fight. I wish I could see Medel vs. Toluco Lopez fights and others as many as possible between that golden era of Mexico City bantamweights.

Chris, trying to figure out the government of Mexico is like trying to find a cure for herpes.One time I had some of my paintings in a gallery in Tijuana.One of the paintingsCarlos Santana, was displayed in a window. I painted the Mexican flag colors of green,white,and red over his glasses.When I went to visit the gallery one day I saw that the Santana painting had been removed from the window.The curator gave me back the painting. I was puzzled.The curator told me that a government official came in and said that the only time the flag colors can be displayed on anything is on the Mexican flag. The official said that the painting was violating Mexican law. Now every time I see a Mexican fighter wearing trunks with green ,white,and red I wonder after the fight if there is a squad car waiting for him outside the arena.



My illegal painting

[dagosd2000]

The Gimmick

I once saw Jimi Hendrix on the Dick Cavett Show. Cavett made a comment to the rock guitarist.
"Some critics say your playing is a gimmick."
Hendrix looked down at the floor and smirked.
"Man,the whole world is a gimmick,"he replied.
So was Jimi Hendrix in agreement with what Cavett said and what the critics thought? Music and the rest of the arts are subjective anyway, so it's a matter of taste. I was in San Francisco a few years back staying in a flop house in the North Beach section of the city.Across the street from this hotel was a little bistro,nothing fancy,called The Melt. I passed by there one night and heard music emanating from the open door .I thought they were playing Wes Montgomery on the jukebox.I stuck in my head and saw that it wasn't the jukebox that was making the sounds,but a trio of musicians. There was this white guy on guitar and behind him was a drummer and a stand up bass. The white guy was playing a on a big Les Paul Gibson. The guitar alone was probably worth more than the club. Anyway ,this guy is playing a repertoire of jazz classics,mostly the stuff that put Wes Montgomery on the charts. There wasn't a bandstand.The musicians played in a small corner of the club.There couldn't have been more than 5 or 6 people inside the place. They were eating fondues and sipping wine. it didn't look like anyone was listening to the band. After a song,there'd be a little patter of hands The white dude would smile and thank everyone for the recognition,miniscule as it was. He looked like a typical square.Middle aged,thin build,cropped hair,pasty skin,and wearing a pair of those pants you used to see in the late 50's that had no belt loops. Covering his chest was a beige sport shirt that looked like he bought at a rummage sale. With all that said,he played that Gibson as good as the late Wes Montgomery or not better. He ran through mostly Montgomery's old stuff before he signed on with Verve Records and they made all those recordings with the overlaps and brassy arrangements that were phony like hell. This guy played the early songs:4 on 6,Airegin,West Coast Blues. Only difference was he used a guitar pick. Montgomery used his thumb. When he took his break I went over to his part of the room and engaged in some talk. I told him his playing was sensational.as good as Wes Montgomery's,maybe even better. He was really appreciative.He was very down to earth,said he lived up the street renting a room with a couple of other musicians,and played at the Melt on Sunday afternoons for tips I bought him and his guys a glass of wine and stuffed a 20 dollar bill in the kitty before I left. Before leaving I got his email.But something happened because that email address no longer puts me through to him.He was on Youtube playing at The Melt, his solo for a couple of minutes,but I don't see it on there anymore.When I walked back to the flop house hotel, I thought why wasn't this guy a household name in the music world. Jimi Hendrix couldn't shine his guitar. But like I said before,the arts are all subjective.I could bring all the Jimi Hendrix fans in the world to hear this guy play and they'd still think Jimi Hendrix walked on water.


That's what I like about sports though. it's cut and dry. You either win or lose.There's no gimmick. Maybe a trick play,but there's a score at the end that tells who the winner is. However, sports like gymnastics,figure skating,and boxing can sometimes get skewed.The determination of the winner is left to the judges. With boxing if a fighter Ko's his opponent there's little doubt about who won. but then I think of the time Mando Ramos went over to Spain to fight for the vacant championship against Carrasco. Mando's punches had the Spaniard's torso dribbling up and down off the mat like a red rubber ball. But the referee saw it differently. Those were no punches that had Pedro gasping for life. He was being pushed to the canvas by the Long Beach upstart. Call it retaining the title on a "gimmick." But Spain didn't see it that way. Pedro won fair and square. He became an overnight sensation on the Iberian peninsula.


The other night I watched the replay of the Mayweather /Pacquiao fight.Everyone inside the MGM Grand was going bonkers:the crowd,the announcer ,the guy selling hot dogs. At the end everyone had damaged their vocal chords. Pacquiao chased Mayweather around who skirted away at the right time or would grab hold for dear life.He'd slap a counter or two and then dart from any further exchanges. Floyd won I guess. I thought the fight stunk. But for the fans that had to make appointments with the nose,ear,and throat doctors the next day, they believed they had witnessed the greatest battle since Normandy. Maybe with all the dough everyone shelled out to see it,they made themselves believe what they saw was something a lot farther from the truth. But maybe I'm wrong. I'm probably in the minority with my assessment.


Then there's all the multitude of championships that scatter the record books like the stars in the sky. This guy is the champion in 5 or 6 weight divisions or he's the junior bantamweight champion of Southern Baja California. With so many champions and all the different commissions and associations and weight divisions,it's put a different perspective on the word "championship."


Frank Baltazar told me once he wished his son Frankie Jr. was fighting today.He could have won some version of a title. Then he could say he was a champion..He most likely would win a title today.. And then he could say to me that "I was a champion." Sure. A fighter goes in there getting punched around never knowing what might happen.If he can win a championship,more power to him. Is it a gimmick? No,it's not. I was no fighter and never picked up a guitar neither.


Frankie Baltazar




Wes Montgomery

[dagosd2000]

Solace

I don't recall Benny Paret ever being in a dull fight. Win or lose,he gave everything he could muster up to an opponent. Gatti was the same way.if you never sqw Paret think of Arturo Gatti. Both boys made war in the ring. Both boys landed plenty and also took an equal amount on the receiving end. During 1958 Charley Scott was emerging as the numero uno crowd pleaser on the tube for the avid fight fan.He had a 4 fight win streak going against some pretty stiff competition:Isaac Logart twice,Ralph Dupas,and a TK0 over Garnet "Sugar" Hart. Scott was another crowd pleaser He brought his Philly passion into the ring.Scott was the favorite against Benny Paret when their match was made in Madison Square Garden. Paret and Scott were a perfect match up..Although they both landed at will they ,that also meant they took as much as they dished out.With all the frequency of their blows they weren't exactly one punch knockout artists. In the first fight Paret threw more and landed a little extra that earned him an unanimous decision. Five weeks later they were both back at The Garden and it was a copycat thriller. The decision was split in Benny's favor and now the Cuban was the centerpiece on the Friday Night Fights.


I don't think the welterweight division was ever more loaded than during the 50's and early 60's.There was Benny and Emile Griffith,Don Jordan.Denny Moyer,Federico Thompson,Gaspar Ortega,Luis Rodriguez,Jorge Fernandez,and Florentino Fernandez.Even Europe was flexing their muscles with Brian Curvis and Chris Christiansen. Out of that illustrious group probably Emile Griffith had the edge. There was a time when he looked unbeatable. Paret had won the welterweight title from Don Jordan in 1960 and Emile was hot on his tail. They put Emile and Benny together in Miami,Benny's title at stake.

I was pulling for Paret.He was flashy with that Cuban trait of throwing punches from all angles ,but I knew that Emile had brilliance too. It became apparant in the fight that Emile was a tad too strong for Benny. Paret had little defense.He fought a lot.He probably should have stayed at the lightweight level,but he wanted to go where the bigger purses were,and besides, he thought he could lick the world.


Enrique Encinosa tells us in his book on Cuban boxing,Hard Leather, that Paret was suffering from headaches after his fight with Federico Thomson in 1960, but wanted to go on.His manager didn't want to put his cash cow out to pasture.Benny's trainer walked away from it all.So when Paret stepped into the ring with Don Jordan for a shot at the crown,his brain was already hemorrhaging. As long as Benny wanted to fight that was enough criteria.

Sometimes having a good chin can work against a fighter. In Paret's case it did. There was never a fight that I saw him in that it wasn't hammer and tongs.His first match with Griffith was a sensational fight.Five months later they were back in The Garden.Another edge of your seat battle.This time the judges saw it Benny's way. A rubber match was a no brainer.However instead of Benny catching his wind,he's in the ring with the middleweight champ,Gene Fullmer. If Paret's strength was a factor with the welters,what made them think that fighting a rough stud like Gene Fullmer would do him any good?After the fight Fullmer said he had never seen a fighter take such a horrible beating.

Three months later after the loss to Fullmer,there's the rubber match with Griffith back in New York. We've heard all the talk about Paret calling Griffith a "maricon"(Spanish for faggot).Emile said that that bothered him. the fight turned sour fast against Paret in the 12th round. Though he decked Emile in the 6th ,you could see Benny's strength slowly ebbing. Then late in the 12th round everything seemed to let go. All the shots Benny had taken because he had a heart that was bigger than his muscle,it all broke down like a car with a two hundred thousand hard miles throwing a piston rod through the engine block Emile put him into the corner and threw the infamous 20 unanswered punches. By the time Ruby Goldstein stepped in,Benny was slumped against the ringpost.His eyes never opened again as he sank to the canvas.

You didn't have to be a doctor to know that something really bad had happened. As Paret's cornermen and the ring doctor knelt beside him ,their expressions revealed an emptiness,almost a sadness, as they gently laid his body on the ring mat.. Benny was lifeless,,not a twitch of movement. The aura in that fateful corner was surrealistic..The reality of the moment was too graphic to draw any other conclusion that we were about to say good by to Benny Paret.

But the one thing I'll never forget about that tragic ending was what the TV ring announcer,Don Dunphy, said as the camera moved in close to Benny.
"I want to tell Benny's family,Benny's wife,that Benny will be all right. Don't worry.Benny will be all right,"reassured Dunphy with a twinge.
Those might not have been the very exact words,but I know they are close. I tried to see if I could get Dunphy's commentary on the YouTube replay. Instead they spliced Norman Mailer's reaction.A big overdramatic windbag whose underlying words were aimed at his self serving ego.

Yeah,Don Dunphy. You handled it right. We knew what you meant.



Benny Paret

[oogiebe]

Solace

I don't recall Benny Paret ever being in a dull fight. Win or lose,he gave everything he could muster up to an opponent. Gatti was the same way.if you never sqw Paret think of Arturo Gatti. Both boys made war in the ring. Both boys landed plenty and also took an equal amount on the receiving end. During 1958 Charley Scott was emerging as the numero uno crowd pleaser on the tube for the avid fight fan.He had a 4 fight win streak going against some pretty stiff competition:Isaac Logart twice,Ralph Dupas,and a TK0 over Garnet "Sugar" Hart. Scott was another crowd pleaser He brought his Philly passion into the ring.Scott was the favorite against Benny Paret when their match was made in Madison Square Garden. Paret and Scott were a perfect match up..Although they both landed at will they ,that also meant they took as much as they dished out.With all the frequency of their blows they weren't exactly one punch knockout artists. In the first fight Paret threw more and landed a little extra that earned him an unanimous decision. Five weeks later they were both back at The Garden and it was a copycat thriller. The decision was split in Benny's favor and now the Cuban was the centerpiece on the Friday Night Fights.


I don't think the welterweight division was ever more loaded than during the 50's and early 60's.There was Benny and Emile Griffith,Don Jordan.Denny Moyer,Federico Thompson,Gaspar Ortega,Luis Rodriguez,Jorge Fernandez,and Florentino Fernandez.Even Europe was flexing their muscles with Brian Curvis and Chris Christiansen. Out of that illustrious group probably Emile Griffith had the edge. There was a time when he looked unbeatable. Paret had won the welterweight title from Don Jordan in 1960 and Emile was hot on his tail. They put Emile and Benny together in Miami,Benny's title at stake.

I was pulling for Paret.He was flashy with that Cuban trait of throwing punches from all angles ,but I knew that Emile had brilliance too. It became apparant in the fight that Emile was a tad too strong for Benny. Paret had little defense.He fought a lot.He probably should have stayed at the lightweight level,but he wanted to go where the bigger purses were,and besides, he thought he could lick the world.


Enrique Encinosa tells us in his book on Cuban boxing,Hard Leather, that Paret was suffering from headaches after his fight with Federico Thomson in 1960, but wanted to go on.His manager didn't want to put his cash cow out to pasture.Benny's trainer walked away from it all.So when Paret stepped into the ring with Don Jordan for a shot at the crown,his brain was already hemorrhaging. As long as Benny wanted to fight that was enough criteria.

Sometimes having a good chin can work against a fighter. In Paret's case it did. There was never a fight that I saw him in that it wasn't hammer and tongs.His first match with Griffith was a sensational fight.Five months later they were back in The Garden.Another edge of your seat battle.This time the judges saw it Benny's way. A rubber match was a no brainer.However instead of Benny catching his wind,he's in the ring with the middleweight champ,Gene Fullmer. If Paret's strength was a factor with the welters,what made them think that fighting a rough stud like Gene Fullmer would do him any good?After the fight Fullmer said he had never seen a fighter take such a horrible beating.

Three months later after the loss to Fullmer,there's the rubber match with Griffith back in New York. We've heard all the talk about Paret calling Griffith a "maricon"(Spanish for faggot).Emile said that that bothered him. the fight turned sour fast against Paret in the 12th round. Though he decked Emile in the 6th ,you could see Benny's strength slowly ebbing. Then late in the 12th round everything seemed to let go. All the shots Benny had taken because he had a heart that was bigger than his muscle,it all broke down like a car with a two hundred thousand hard miles throwing a piston rod through the engine block Emile put him into the corner and threw the infamous 20 unanswered punches. By the time Ruby Goldstein stepped in,Benny was slumped against the ringpost.His eyes never opened again as he sank to the canvas.

You didn't have to be a doctor to know that something really bad had happened. As Paret's cornermen and the ring doctor knelt beside him ,their expressions revealed an emptiness,almost a sadness, as they gently laid his body on the ring mat.. Benny was lifeless,,not a twitch of movement. The aura in that fateful corner was surrealistic..The reality of the moment was too graphic to draw any other conclusion that we were about to say good by to Benny Paret.

But the one thing I'll never forget about that tragic ending was what the TV ring announcer,Don Dunphy, said as the camera moved in close to Benny.
"I want to tell Benny's family,Benny's wife,that Benny will be all right. Don't worry.Benny will be all right,"reassured Dunphy with a twinge.
Those might not have been the very exact words,but I know they are close. I tried to see if I could get Dunphy's commentary on the YouTube replay. Instead they spliced Norman Mailer's reaction.A big overdramatic windbag whose underlying words were aimed at his self serving ego.

Yeah,Don Dunphy. You handled it right. We knew what you meant.



Benny Paret

Another great post. Of course it was years later on a replay, but I remember that fight and remember thinking Dunphy was lying through his teeth. I can still close my eyes and see the limp body of Paret taking those shots in the corner. My Lord that was horrible.

[dagosd2000]

Solace

I don't recall Benny Paret ever being in a dull fight. Win or lose,he gave everything he could muster up to an opponent. Gatti was the same way.if you never sqw Paret think of Arturo Gatti. Both boys made war in the ring. Both boys landed plenty and also took an equal amount on the receiving end. During 1958 Charley Scott was emerging as the numero uno crowd pleaser on the tube for the avid fight fan.He had a 4 fight win streak going against some pretty stiff competition:Isaac Logart twice,Ralph Dupas,and a TK0 over Garnet "Sugar" Hart. Scott was another crowd pleaser He brought his Philly passion into the ring.Scott was the favorite against Benny Paret when their match was made in Madison Square Garden. Paret and Scott were a perfect match up..Although they both landed at will they ,that also meant they took as much as they dished out.With all the frequency of their blows they weren't exactly one punch knockout artists. In the first fight Paret threw more and landed a little extra that earned him an unanimous decision. Five weeks later they were both back at The Garden and it was a copycat thriller. The decision was split in Benny's favor and now the Cuban was the centerpiece on the Friday Night Fights.


I don't think the welterweight division was ever more loaded than during the 50's and early 60's.There was Benny and Emile Griffith,Don Jordan.Denny Moyer,Federico Thompson,Gaspar Ortega,Luis Rodriguez,Jorge Fernandez,and Florentino Fernandez.Even Europe was flexing their muscles with Brian Curvis and Chris Christiansen. Out of that illustrious group probably Emile Griffith had the edge. There was a time when he looked unbeatable. Paret had won the welterweight title from Don Jordan in 1960 and Emile was hot on his tail. They put Emile and Benny together in Miami,Benny's title at stake.

I was pulling for Paret.He was flashy with that Cuban trait of throwing punches from all angles ,but I knew that Emile had brilliance too. It became apparant in the fight that Emile was a tad too strong for Benny. Paret had little defense.He fought a lot.He probably should have stayed at the lightweight level,but he wanted to go where the bigger purses were,and besides, he thought he could lick the world.


Enrique Encinosa tells us in his book on Cuban boxing,Hard Leather, that Paret was suffering from headaches after his fight with Federico Thomson in 1960, but wanted to go on.His manager didn't want to put his cash cow out to pasture.Benny's trainer walked away from it all.So when Paret stepped into the ring with Don Jordan for a shot at the crown,his brain was already hemorrhaging. As long as Benny wanted to fight that was enough criteria.

Sometimes having a good chin can work against a fighter. In Paret's case it did. There was never a fight that I saw him in that it wasn't hammer and tongs.His first match with Griffith was a sensational fight.Five months later they were back in The Garden.Another edge of your seat battle.This time the judges saw it Benny's way. A rubber match was a no brainer.However instead of Benny catching his wind,he's in the ring with the middleweight champ,Gene Fullmer. If Paret's strength was a factor with the welters,what made them think that fighting a rough stud like Gene Fullmer would do him any good?After the fight Fullmer said he had never seen a fighter take such a horrible beating.

Three months later after the loss to Fullmer,there's the rubber match with Griffith back in New York. We've heard all the talk about Paret calling Griffith a "maricon"(Spanish for faggot).Emile said that that bothered him. the fight turned sour fast against Paret in the 12th round. Though he decked Emile in the 6th ,you could see Benny's strength slowly ebbing. Then late in the 12th round everything seemed to let go. All the shots Benny had taken because he had a heart that was bigger than his muscle,it all broke down like a car with a two hundred thousand hard miles throwing a piston rod through the engine block Emile put him into the corner and threw the infamous 20 unanswered punches. By the time Ruby Goldstein stepped in,Benny was slumped against the ringpost.His eyes never opened again as he sank to the canvas.

You didn't have to be a doctor to know that something really bad had happened. As Paret's cornermen and the ring doctor knelt beside him ,their expressions revealed an emptiness,almost a sadness, as they gently laid his body on the ring mat.. Benny was lifeless,,not a twitch of movement. The aura in that fateful corner was surrealistic..The reality of the moment was too graphic to draw any other conclusion that we were about to say good by to Benny Paret.

But the one thing I'll never forget about that tragic ending was what the TV ring announcer,Don Dunphy, said as the camera moved in close to Benny.
"I want to tell Benny's family,Benny's wife,that Benny will be all right. Don't worry.Benny will be all right,"reassured Dunphy with a twinge.
Those might not have been the very exact words,but I know they are close. I tried to see if I could get Dunphy's commentary on the YouTube replay. Instead they spliced Norman Mailer's reaction.A big overdramatic windbag whose underlying words were aimed at his self serving ego.

Yeah,Don Dunphy. You handled it right. We knew what you meant.



Benny Paret

Another great post. Of course it was years later on a replay, but I remember that fight and remember thinking Dunphy was lying through his teeth. I can still close my eyes and see the limp body of Paret taking those shots in the corner. My Lord that was horrible.
[/quote


Ooglebe
I don't construe what Dunphy said as a lie. He was thinking of Paret's family. What if he had said something like:
"It looks like the end of Benny Paret.He looks dead and doesn't have a chance."
I know if that would have been my son lying there,I would be holding out for some hope. The last thing i would want to hear is the worst note of gloom and doom. We all knew,including Dunphy, that Paret was dying.Dunphy was just trying to alleviate some of the anguish that the family had just witnessed on the television set.In a matter of seconds their lives had descended into a hell. That was Ruby Goldstein's last fight as a referee.Remember the faction that called for the banishment of boxing after that fight?

[oogiebe]

I meant that it was obvious to me that Dunphy knew what was really happening inside the ring. It was pretty obvious to most if not everyone who was watching. I'm not vilifying him for it. I agree, what else could he have done?

[dagosd2000]

I meant that it was obvious to me that Dunphy knew what was really happening inside the ring. It was pretty obvious to most if not everyone who was watching. I'm not vilifying him for it. I agree, what else could he have done?

[dagosd2000]

After The Door Is Closed

I never heard Archie Moore say anything about someone after he left the room.The only time I really saw him was at his Any Boy Can Club when he was teaching the kids how to box and become good citizens. I'd see him around San Diego at the everyday places everyone frequented.I saw him once at C&M Meats buying his chickens and chops for his block party feed. I saw him sitting by himself at Mesa Junior College watching his son play football.I bumped into him at Huffman's Barbeque and we talked about jazz. I saw him at a fight in the Tijuana Bullring. Olivares was fighting the main event. He was the undefeated champ then. Before the fight ,Archie Moore was invited into the ring to take a bow. They gave him a standing ovation. They cheered for Ruben too when he was introduced, but everyone was sitting down

I was reading today about LeBron James. He made a lot of noise about how he thinks that he is the GOAT,Greatest Of All Time.People make these comparisons about him and Michael Jordan The sports blogs are choked with all the slants and takes.But I guess it's getting under LeBron's skin. He thinks he's the best who ever played the game,and he wants everyone else to concur.If you don't agree with him I'm sure he thinks you're either an idiot or maybe an angry old white guy., I don't hear Jordan ranting and raving about who was(or is) better.They've got all kinds of signs around LA that say"The King Of LA" and a picture of LeBron in a Laker uni. They've made up songs and about his royalty and he's even gravitating into a Tinsel Town movie star.You know he loves that. He's the most profiled figure in sports. He's got millions of fans on Facebook. Every time he tweets something it makes headlines .More fans stand on their feet for LeBron than any athlete out there today.

I never heard Archie More voice an opinion about another fighter unless it was something good to say. He wanted to fight Marciano before Rocky got tired of fighting and retired. Archie said some things about how he could take him and that Rocky didn't want to fight him because he knew that he'd lose.When Rocky gave him a thumping,Moore had nothing but accolades to bestow on Rocky. We know that Archie Moore was never pulling for Muhammad Ali against an opponent.Archie thought Ali disrespected him,shot his mouth off too much. No one likes to get knocked to the canvas and have the guy who put you there waving his arms and shuffling his feet glaring down at you with a menacing look at your stretched out body But Archie never got on his soap box about his displeasures regarding Muhammad Ali.

Fighters fight each other mano a mano.There's a winner and loser at the end. Basketball is a team sport.As for who is better player, there's left a lot of room open for discussion.The Boston Celtics won 9 championships with Bill Russell playing center .Wilt The Stilt was only on one championship team during that time playing for 3 different teams. So who was better?Maybe Russell and Chamberlain should have squared off against each other at center court to settle the matter,but the that would have been a different sport--the mano a mano kind.

Part of Lebron's criteria for him being the GOAT is that he was the reason that the Cleveland Cavaliers beat the Golden State Warriors for the championship that one year. He claims he was responsible for the team coming back 3 games to 1 against the best team,the Warriors, and finally overtaking them. The city of Cleveland hadn't had a championship team in 52 years.The city was reborn thanks to LeBron.Well,like I said, that leaves a lot of room open for discussion.By The way,Lebron has thrown down the gauntlet at Mike. Him and Jordan should play a game of one on one.

Here's a proposition. Who was better ?Archie Moore or LeBron James? Let's put them both in their primes. LeBron can play "Horse" with Archie. Then they both can put on the gloves and step into the ring But what would that prove?Archie would get "dunked on" and LeBron would have a concussion Well.that's proof enough for me And Lebron,if you're reading this,I want you to know that I'm not an angry old white guy. I'm just an old white guy that doesn't care for you at all



C'mon Lebron.smile a little

[dagosd2000]

Outliving A Talent

Everyone in some way outlives an expertise,a flair,a talent if he lives long enough. A stunning movie starlet will see the roles vanishing once the wrinkles appear,the bags under the eyes catch the eye,the softness of skin becomes scratchy.All the physical beauty of a bygone era is only to found in a scrap book up in the attic. But being blessed with good looks isn't a talent. It's a stroke of good luck.The altruistic,the people who are the building blocks for a society,a vital cause,who leave their marks and have schools ,streets ,and kids named after them can continue longer than the ones who necessitate a personal physicality.Pavoratti reached a stage where his vocal chords betrayed him. No more High C's. We buy the CD's and download the music to remember him when he was the toast of the Met and La Scala.It was a physical breakdown like the sharpshooter who now can't hit the broadside of a barn door because macular degeneration has taken hold of his orbs subsequently keeping his guns under lock and key. If the brilliance is something strictly emanating from between the ears the gift can last well into the Golden Years. Churchill reached his apex when he was in his 60's. You can say he was in the right time and place for his talent and stubbornness to save England from being devoured by Hitler. If Churchill had capitulated, Europe would have been left with a choice of Nazi Germany or Communist Russia ruling the Continent.There would have been no Normandy invasion. No round the clock bombing of Germany's industry. Before the U.S. joined the fight ol' Winnie was the most important cog in the allied wheel.But if brawn is a requisite as much as the mental dynamic,when the muscle goes, a genius IQ will not get one across the finish line in first place. Usain Bolt in the last Olympics was anticipating breaking his world record for the 100 meter dash. He won the Gold Medal but fell a tick short of setting a new world mark. He attributed his failure on "growing old."

You know me by now.I'll turn this train of thought eventually to the sport of boxing. There's nothing more stark than when a fighter's talent begins to sag because of Father Time. It's especially tragic to see the once great fighter wander into the rabbit hole. If he stays in long enough he'll stumble out to Palookaville.


When Roy Jones was on top,undefeated,the champ,I don't think he ever lost a round in a fight. He was faster than Ali or Floyd.But with fighter's, when that crack begins to show, it's sudden and there's not a legal vitamin in the world that will curtail its spreading. When Jones fought Tarver the first time we saw a different Roy Jones. He endured to eke out the decision,but all the cracks were there. For the Roy Jones fans the rematch would prove that Roy just had an off night. It wasn't as bad as the Max Schmeling fight the first time with Joe Louis.But the second match with Tarver wasn't like Louis's rematch with Herr Max. But Jones kept going and on. He needed the money. With all the money he made in the ring,he needed the money. That reason usually occupies first place in pugilistic excuses. When they talk about greatest P4P ATG's often Roy Jones name is not mentioned because of that post Tarver era. Ezzard Charles was another fighter who had all the talent required of the great ones,but he fought way too long. He also needed the cash. On top of it he was beginning to show signs of the Lou Gehrig's Disease. I knew an ex pug who was from somewhere in the Rocky Mountain region of the U.S.He was a rough and tough guy,but more of a street brawler than a polished boxer. He told me he had a fight,which he lost, with George Logan.Logan was Ezzard Charles's last opponent.Ezzard lost to Logan twice in a row and then retired. I'll stand by my opinion that I don't think Joe Louis ,in his prime,could have ever beaten Ezzard Charles.Archie Moore couldn't get by him. But again that P4P ATG topic usually leaves out Charles's name in the discussion.After Walcott caught him cold in their third fight in a row,Ezzard found himself shaking hands with The White Rabbit. It was a slow descent but he could never reverse course and be the Ezzard Charles who dominated Archie Moore. The only two fighters that held on to credence ,post pugilism, was Muhammad Ali and Ray Robinson I saw an old Robby lose to a fighter in a bullring in Tijuana. I saw Muhammad Ali plod around the ring in San Diego losing a split decision against Kenny Norton.

Not so much with Robinson,but the fighting public didn't want to lose Muhammad Ali to the ages. We began to see him through the proverbial rose colored glasses.Like the judge in San Diego who scored the fight in Ali's favor. Even if he was getting flabby and was unable to do his butterfly imitation and the bee stinger had been ejected sometime back in the 60's ,we couldn't let go. If Ali's talent had only been in his gloves,the legacy would have been prosaic.But Muhammad had duel talents.He could accrue and move an audience. He made people feel good about themselves, especially the less affluent and erudite,but that also didn't stop the egg heads from following him down The Yellow Brick Road. His body was selling him out,but the charm and love stayed intact .We didn't want to turn our backs on him.But at the end,the wit had also left him.We didn't want to see him sick.First the body nonpareil,then the cerebral artistry. That was not the way we wanted to seehim.There were no rose colored glasses that could work any illusions.Muhammad Ali had made us feel good about ourselves. If you were in his presence of read a story about him in a magazine,he made life a bit more tolerable.If someone feels better by being around you,you're doing God's work.

So who took over?Larry Holmes. Poor Larry never even got asked to be on The Johnny Carson Show



Muhammad Ali