GGG: an all time middleweight great?

[oogiebe]

This thread has become intolerable...

[Jacopodb]

To be fair to Golovkin I'd say he was ducked rather than ducker during the hot streak of his career and he definitely wanted to take on all comers in his pursuit to be undisputed.

I think the aura started to go around the Brook and Jacobs fights. Brook showed he could be hit and Jacobs showed he wasn't the monster some had thought or at least wasn't anymore.

I really can't tell wether GGG was ducked more or less, but I know I didn't like the Brook fight: facing such a heavier, dangerous puncher, coming directly from welterweight, was far too edgy for Brook: he risked serious, even permanent injuries, as far as I'm concerned, and couldn't even satisfy the most sadistic fans (let's not bring the psychopaths into play...).

[Onetimeonly]

To be fair to Golovkin I'd say he was ducked rather than ducker during the hot streak of his career and he definitely wanted to take on all comers in his pursuit to be undisputed.

I think the aura started to go around the Brook and Jacobs fights. Brook showed he could be hit and Jacobs showed he wasn't the monster some had thought or at least wasn't anymore.

I really can't tell wether GGG was ducked more or less, but I know I didn't like the Brook fight: facing such a heavier, dangerous puncher, coming directly from welterweight, was far too edgy for Brook: he risked serious, even permanent injuries, as far as I'm concerned, and couldn't even satisfy the most sadistic fans (let's not bring the psychopats into play...).

Lol, you're not even pretending to be fair. Multiple guys dropped belts instead of fighting him without a more lucrative bout in front of them.

[Jacopodb]

To be fair to Golovkin I'd say he was ducked rather than ducker during the hot streak of his career and he definitely wanted to take on all comers in his pursuit to be undisputed.

I think the aura started to go around the Brook and Jacobs fights. Brook showed he could be hit and Jacobs showed he wasn't the monster some had thought or at least wasn't anymore.

I really can't tell wether GGG was ducked more or less, but I know I didn't like the Brook fight: facing such a heavier, dangerous puncher, coming directly from welterweight, was far too edgy for Brook: he risked serious, even permanent injuries, as far as I'm concerned, and couldn't even satisfy the most sadistic fans (let's not bring the psychopats into play...).

Lol, you're not even pretending to be fair. Multiple guys dropped belts instead of fighting him without a more lucrative bout in front of them.

Why should I pretend..? I really don't see your point. Who ducked him in first place, among fighters more dangerous than the ones he already met?

[Jacopodb]

I really can't tell wether GGG was ducked more or less, but I know I didn't like the Brook fight: facing such a heavier, dangerous puncher, coming directly from welterweight, was far too edgy for Brook: he risked serious, even permanent injuries, as far as I'm concerned, and couldn't even satisfy the most sadistic fans (let's not bring the psychopats into play...).

Lol, you're not even pretending to be fair. Multiple guys dropped belts instead of fighting him without a more lucrative bout in front of them.

Why should I pretend..? I really don't see your point. Who ducked him in first place, among fighters more dangerous than the ones he already met?

Please, Onetimeonly, don't give me Sturm or Martinez guilty for ducking GGG: Sturm is no all-timer opposition and Martinez is considerably older than Golovkin...
Now Canelo is considerably younger than GGG, but also considerably skinnier: GGG : Martinez = GGG : Canelo, would be a false statement.

GGG never moved up a weight class... Nor did Hagler as far as I recall, but at least Hagler fought unquestionable opposition in Duran, Hearns and Leonard...

If GGG had moved up in weight, as a so-much-ducked fighter should do, I'd arguably be here to praise him, but you understand I cannot.

Now, is it a coincidence that most GGG-nuthuggers are also quite arrogant..?

[ewenhay]

Lol, you're not even pretending to be fair. Multiple guys dropped belts instead of fighting him without a more lucrative bout in front of them.

Why should I pretend..? I really don't see your point. Who ducked him in first place, among fighters more dangerous than the ones he already met?

Please, Onetimeonly, don't give me Sturm or Martinez guilty for ducking GGG: Sturm is no all-timer opposition and Martinez is considerably older than Golovkin...
Now Canelo is considerably younger than GGG, but also considerably skinnier: GGG : Martinez = GGG : Canelo, would be a false statement.

GGG never moved up a weight class... Nor did Hagler as far as I recall, but at least Hagler fought unquestionable opposition in Duran, Hearns and Leonard...

If GGG had moved up in weight, as a so-much-ducked fighter should do, I'd arguably be here to praise him, but you understand I cannot.

Now, is it a coincidence that most GGG-nuthuggers are also quite arrogant..?

I wouldn't knock Golovkin for not going up a weight division. Nothing wrong with staying at the same weight if it's right for your body. And Golovkin was already mature, his body had already filled out as a man., therefore already at his adult weight.

[Jacopodb]

Why should I pretend..? I really don't see your point. Who ducked him in first place, among fighters more dangerous than the ones he already met?

Please, Onetimeonly, don't give me Sturm or Martinez guilty for ducking GGG: Sturm is no all-timer opposition and Martinez is considerably older than Golovkin...
Now Canelo is considerably younger than GGG, but also considerably skinnier: GGG : Martinez = GGG : Canelo, would be a false statement.

GGG never moved up a weight class... Nor did Hagler as far as I recall, but at least Hagler fought unquestionable opposition in Duran, Hearns and Leonard...

If GGG had moved up in weight, as a so-much-ducked fighter should do, I'd arguably be here to praise him, but you understand I cannot.

Now, is it a coincidence that most GGG-nuthuggers are also quite arrogant..?

I wouldn't knock Golovkin for not going up a weight division. Nothing wrong with staying at the same weight if it's right for your body. And Golovkin was already mature, his body had already filled out as a man., therefore already at his adult weight.

I didn't/don't mean to condemn Golovkin, let alone judging him, I was just stating a fact.

Roberto Duran, a former lightweight, went middleweight at 32 years old, going on to beat none other than a peaking Iran Barkley, when Duran was 38 years old... Duran also lost to middleweights, but without being punished too harshly, despite suffering 4 KO losses, and his clear speech is there to prove it... he could take it.
GGG clearly doesn't have Duran's makings, so, people, please, don't try to push me GGG as a close all-timer, when little Duran would spank his ass any day...

[ewenhay]

I agree that you can't rate Golovkin with Duran but that's kinda obvious? To most anyway I would have thought

[Jacopodb]

I wouldn't knock Golovkin for not going up a weight division. Nothing wrong with staying at the same weight if it's right for your body. And Golovkin was already mature, his body had already filled out as a man., therefore already at his adult weight.

I didn't/don't mean to condemn Golovkin, let alone judging him, I was just stating a fact.

Roberto Duran, a former lightweight, went middleweight at 32 years old, going on to beat none other than a peaking Iran Barkley, when Duran was 38 years old...
GGG clearly doesn't have Duran's makings, so, people, please, don't try to push me GGG as a close all-timer, when little Duran would spank his ass any day...

Yeah but Duran went up in weight division because he was no longer disciplined to stay at his proper weight.

True, but he wasn't punished too harshly anyway... even 4 KO losses can mean no permanent damage, if you train as hard as Duran arguably kept doing.

Now, how much do you think GGG would've been punished if he jumped among supermiddleweights?

[Jacopodb]

I agree that you can't rate Golovkin with Duran but that's kinda obvious? To most anyway I would have thought

That's obvious, of course: Duran is not only ranked higher than GGG on a p4p level, but also considering their actual weight classes.

Surely obvious enough, and maybe not enough to make a strong statement, but I could name a few great middleweights that could've put lighter Duran in trouble.

[apollo creed]

GGG was craving and salivate for fights with Sturm, Martinez and JCCJr but unfortunately at that time he was seen as a very dangerous fighter with less reward.

[Jacopodb]

GGG was craving and salivate for fights with Sturm, Martinez and JCCJr but unfortunately at that time he was seen as a very dangerous fighter with less reward.

I believe I understand your thought and, most certainly, Martinez could've given GGG the more prestigious, at least blazoned opposition GGG needed to get recognition, altho Martinez isn't in the same league of Canelo.

Judging by the way Martinez came back with Paul Williams, I thought he could've handled GGG, also (who could hardly have taken on Williams...).

I heard that Martinez preferred to go for the Cotto-payday, instead of fighting GGG for less money, don't know if it's true (by that time Martinez was also struggling with an injured leg)... same goes for Sturm, so I don't know if you can blame them for not fighting Golovkin... If you think so and have evidence, I might change my mind.

P. S.: Martinez could've even thought he was a little too old to face stocky, hard-hitting Golovkin, and I wouldn't blame Martinez even in this case.
Martinez himself might have well been ducked too, in his heyday...

[Mexi-Box]

Wow, this thread is dumb. EO gives the most obvious bias account of GGG's resume. The guy just can't help himself.

[apollo creed]

Wow, this thread is dumb. EO gives the most obvious bias account of GGG's resume. The guy just can't help himself.

EO/Fergus is just nitpicking on GGG's resume. His senile biased mind is just very wrong.

[Onetimeonly]

Sturm dumped a belt instead of fighting him. Lol

[Enlightened-One]

Wow, this thread is dumb. EO gives the most obvious bias account of GGG's resume. The guy just can't help himself.

EO/Fergus is just nitpicking on GGG's resume. His senile biased mind is just very wrong.

I quoted facts. It would be easy to challenge my posts if I was talking utter bôllôcks like you do, but you can’t undermine any of the facts that I’ve listed, since you know them to be true.

[apollo creed]

Wow, this thread is dumb. EO gives the most obvious bias account of GGG's resume. The guy just can't help himself.

EO/Fergus is just nitpicking on GGG's resume. His senile biased mind is just very wrong.

I quoted facts. It would be easy to challenge my posts if I was talking utter bôllôcks like you do, but you can’t undermine any of the facts that I’ve listed, since you know them to be true.

EO/Fergus & facts

[Jacopodb]

Sturm dumped a belt instead of fighting him. Lol

Here's a brief retrospective.
A little messed-up by the way, just saying, basically, that Sturm asked the WBA to give him a sort of "untouchable" status, just to avoid fighting GGG.
Now, Sturm is an accurate puncher, interesting fighter, but lost to great opposition, little like Golovkin...
https://www.BS.com/oner-explai ... kin--61851

[boxing_rocks]

Sturm dumped a belt instead of fighting him. Lol

Here's a brief retrospective.
A little messed-up by the way, just saying, basically, that Sturm asked the WBA to give him a sort of "untouchable" status, just to avoid fighting GGG.
Now, Sturm is an accurate puncher, interesting fighter, but lost to great opposition, little like Golovkin...
https://www.BS.com/oner-explai ... kin--61851

Sturm lost to limited Chudinov TWICE. He wouldn't last more than 7 rounds against Golovkin.

[Jacopodb]

Sturm dumped a belt instead of fighting him. Lol

Here's a brief retrospective.
A little messed-up by the way, just saying, basically, that Sturm asked the WBA to give him a sort of "untouchable" status, just to avoid fighting GGG.
Now, Sturm is an accurate puncher, interesting fighter, but lost to great opposition, little like Golovkin...
https://www.BS.com/oner-explai ... kin--61851

Sturm lost to limited Chudinov TWICE. He wouldn't last more than 7 rounds against Golovkin.

He's obviously far from being an all-timer.

[Enlightened-One]

Sturm dumped a belt instead of fighting him. Lol

Here's a brief retrospective.
A little messed-up by the way, just saying, basically, that Sturm asked the WBA to give him a sort of "untouchable" status, just to avoid fighting GGG.
Now, Sturm is an accurate puncher, interesting fighter, but lost to great opposition, little like Golovkin...
https://www.BS.com/oner-explai ... kin--61851

Sturm lost to limited Chudinov TWICE. He wouldn't last more than 7 rounds against Golovkin.

In terms of the outcome of the bout, I actually agree with you, but Tom Loeffler never submitted any financial offers to Sturm to face GGG.

I actually feel that K2 are primarily responsible for the lack of quality of Golovkin’s resume.

Whilst I appreciate fight fans being fond of Gennady Golovkin, I don’t understand why they keep giving Tom Loeffler a free pass.

[boxing_rocks]

Here's a brief retrospective.
A little messed-up by the way, just saying, basically, that Sturm asked the WBA to give him a sort of "untouchable" status, just to avoid fighting GGG.
Now, Sturm is an accurate puncher, interesting fighter, but lost to great opposition, little like Golovkin...
https://www.BS.com/oner-explai ... kin--61851

Sturm lost to limited Chudinov TWICE. He wouldn't last more than 7 rounds against Golovkin.

In terms of the outcome of the bout, I actually agree with you, but Tom Loeffler never submitted any financial offers to Sturm to face GGG.

I actually feel that K2 are primarily responsible for the lack of quality of Golovkin’s resume.

Whilst I appreciate fight fans being fond of Gennady Golovkin, I don’t understand why they keep giving Tom Loeffler a free pass.

Before K2, Golovkin had the same promoter as Sturm and was begging for that fight. Before 2015, K2 couldn't possibly offer amount of money that could lure Sturm into the ring with Golovkin and by the time they got money Sturm lost his belt.

[Enlightened-One]

Sturm lost to limited Chudinov TWICE. He wouldn't last more than 7 rounds against Golovkin.

In terms of the outcome of the bout, I actually agree with you, but Tom Loeffler never submitted any financial offers to Sturm to face GGG.

I actually feel that K2 are primarily responsible for the lack of quality of Golovkin’s resume.

Whilst I appreciate fight fans being fond of Gennady Golovkin, I don’t understand why they keep giving Tom Loeffler a free pass.

Before K2, Golovkin had the same promoter as Sturm and was begging for that fight. Before 2015, K2 couldn't possibly offer amount of money that could lure Sturm into the ring with Golovkin and by the time they got money Sturm lost his belt.

Gennady Golovkin has been competing on HBO fight cards since 2012 and also headlined a lot of them, which resulted in big ratings for that network. Verify this for yourself and let me know your thoughts?

There is no evidence of Tom Loeffler submitting financial offers to GGG’s big name peers.

If you think I’m wrong then please cite your evidence that proves otherwise.

I’ve kept asking the very same question for several years, but no one has been able to answer this one rather simple point.

I have a funny feeling you might actually partially agree with me on this point, since you’re one of the few people from this forum that has previously criticised Tom Loeffler.

Just because you’re a die-hard GGG fan, that doesn’t mean that you’re automatically obliged to also defend everyone associated to Gennady, regardless of their actions.

[apollo creed]

Golovkin terminated his contract with Universum in January 2010 and stated the following in an interview: "The reason for this decision is that I've always been placed behind Felix Sturm and Sebastian Zbik by Universum. Our demands to fight against Felix Sturm or Sebastian Zbik have been always rejected on absurd grounds. Universum had no real plan or concept for me, they did not even try to bring my career forward. They would rather try to prevent me from winning a title as long as Sturm and Zbik are champions. Further more, bouts against well-known and interesting opponents were held out in prospect, but nothing happened. This situation was not acceptable. It was time to move forward." from wiki

Actually Loeffler did a very good job to promote GGG. Fighting 2 times and possible for a 3rd time the cash cow of boxing ain't "lack of quality".

[apollo creed]

EO/Fergus just blabbering on this thread utterly bs

Imo Loefller did for GGG the best job it could be done in terms of promoting.