Jermall Charlo:“We want GGG! We want Canelo!" I told y'all he wants to cash out!

[Enlightened-One]

Who did GGG defeat to earn the right to engage in his very first world title bout at 160lbs?

GGG didn't get to fight Sergio, or even Sturm, in his first title shot though. He fought for the WBA Regular title. That's the equivalent of Charlo fighting Rob Brant, not Canelo.

Gennady Golovkin was elevated to being the WBA Super world middleweight champion, between fights, shortly after the Osumanu Adama bout. He once again captured another world championship outside of the ring, when he was awarded the WBC crown, between fights, shortly after the Dominic Wade bout.

So I'll ask you again, who did GGG defeat to earn the right to engage in his very first world title bout at 160lbs?

Is it reasonable to assume that the Jermall Charlo is currently more qualified to challenge for a world title than the 2010 version of Gennady Golovkin (who had only competed in 18 pro bouts)?

How many hoops did GGG have to jump through to get the first Canelo fight? Charlo has done nowhere near that. Not even close.

Why have you chosen to change the topic? GGG was already the WBC world middleweight champion when he faced Canelo? What has the Canelo bout got to do with Jermall Charlo's mandated WBC title shot?

In my mind, it's simply an extremely dishonest debating tactic to introduce irrelevant facts or arguments to distract from answering the actual question at hand.

Should Jermall Charlo be deemed as being a better qualified title challenger than the likes of Lajuan Simon, Kassim Ouma and Nobuhiro Ishida who all fought GGG for his WBA championship, despite possessing losing records?

Just because some undeserving fighters got a title shot, doesn't mean other undeserving fighters should. It happens. As fans of the sport, we should be against ALL undeserving title shots, not selective based on who it is.

This doesn't actually happen though, does it? GGG is a very popular fighter and will always receive a free pass no matter whom he fights (i.e. some of Golovkin's die-hard fans, including your good self, possessed the sheer audacity to claim that Vanes Martirosyan was a very fine middleweights world title contender).

The Kazakh is immune from receiving criticism, but the Charlo twins rarely receive any sort of praise, no matter what they do.

Jermall Charlo defeated the middleweight division’s highest-ranked WBC title challenger when he stopped Jorge Sebastian Heiland within four rounds, which was a final eliminator to determine the mandatory challenger to face GGG (as confirmed by Mauricio Sulaiman himself).

He then became the WBC's interim 160-pound champion when he KO’d Hugo Centeno Jr. during his very next outing, a bout that was ordered by the WBC, which further cemented his mandatory challenger status.

Wherever Heiland and Centeno were ranked, both are poor fighters relative to the level we're talking about here. Heiland also fought with a pretty bad injury, and also has a loss to Nilson Tapia (supposedly one of Golovkin's tomato cans) on his record. Centeno is a blown up junior middleweight (something else you've criticised Golovkin for fighting), and a poor one at that. Vanes was a better opponent, in all honesty.

Jermall Charlo beat whom he was mandated to face by the WBC, which meant that he had to overcome the fighters dictated to him by Mauricio Sulaimán. The American cannot be blamed for this rather simple and blatantly obvious fact.

Jermall Charlo has been the mandatory challenger to the WBC middleweight crown for more than sixteen months! Charlo was told by the WBC that the winner of the Canelo vs. Golovkin rematch would be forced to face him next, but it seems Mauricio Sulaimán lied.

He should have lost (albeit very narrowly) to an old, inactive (and average, as a professional) Korobov. He has unfinished business there, before he deserves to even think about fighting Canelo.

ESPN believed that Jermall Charlo defeated Matt Korobov by a 116-112 margin. BS.com also awarded the bout to Charlo, as did BloodyElbow, as well as The RING. I can cite other media outlets confirming the same verdict.

It seems that the consensus opinion held by the media is that Jermall Charlo deserved his narrow victory over Matt Korobov.

There’s no need for a rematch, because the American has waited long enough for his title shot. And I don’t believe he should overcome more hurdles than any other world title contenders, since the rules have to applied consistently, rather than selectively (such as those that dishonestly choose to apply double-standards, based solely on their appreciation or hatred of certain fighters).

The WBC has already demanded that Jermall Charlo engage in a third world title eliminator against GGG. Mauricio Sulaiman should either force Golovkin or Canelo to face Charlo next, depending on whatever direction the Kazakh or the Mexican choose to take their respective careers. Alternatively, Charlo should be able to fight the next highest contender to challenge for the vacant WBC world middleweight championship.

[apollo creed]

Who did GGG defeat to earn the right to engage in his very first world title bout at 160lbs?

GGG didn't get to fight Sergio, or even Sturm, in his first title shot though. He fought for the WBA Regular title. That's the equivalent of Charlo fighting Rob Brant, not Canelo.

Is it reasonable to assume that the Jermall Charlo is currently more qualified to challenge for a world title than the 2010 version of Gennady Golovkin (who had only competed in 18 pro bouts)?

If we're talking about him fighting Rob Brant, yes he probably is. How many hoops did GGG have to jump through to get the first Canelo fight? Charlo has done nowhere near that. Not even close.

Should Jermall Charlo be deemed as being a better qualified title challenger than the likes of Lajuan Simon, Kassim Ouma and Nobuhiro Ishida who all fought GGG for his WBA championship, despite possessing losing records?

I don't see anybody defending those choices of opponents. Just because some undeserving fighters got a title shot, doesn't mean other undeserving fighters should. It happens. As fans of the sport, we should be against ALL undeserving title shots, not selective based on who it is.

Jermall Charlo defeated the middleweight division’s highest-ranked WBC title challenger when he stopped Jorge Sebastian Heiland within four rounds, which was a final eliminator to determine the mandatory challenger to face GGG (as confirmed by Mauricio Sulaiman himself).

He then became the WBC's interim 160-pound champion when he KO’d Hugo Centeno Jr. during his very next outing, a bout that was ordered by the WBC, which further cemented his mandatory challenger status.

Wherever Heiland and Centeno were ranked, both are poor fighters relative to the level we're talking about here. Heiland also fought with a pretty bad injury, and also has a loss to Nilson Tapia (supposedly one of Golovkin's tomato cans) on his record. Centeno is a blown up junior middleweight (something else you've criticised Golovkin for fighting), and a poor one at that. Vanes was a better opponent, in all honesty.

Jermall Charlo has been the mandatory challenger to the WBC middleweight crown for more than sixteen months! Charlo was told by the WBC that the winner of the Canelo vs. Golovkin rematch would be forced to face him next, but it seems Mauricio Sulaimán lied.

WBC not granting promised title shots to their mandatory contenders? They've got no previous for that kind of behaviour, have they??

Ok, I'll be honest. The WBC should honour their promises. I'll also be clear in saying none of Charlo's fights at 160 should have been considered eliminators.

He should have lost (albeit very narrowly) to an old, inactive (and average, as a professional) Korobov. He has unfinished business there, before he deserves to even think about fighting Canelo.

Very objective points.


As you mentioned Rob Brant, imo that dude could give Charlo a harder fight than old Korobov. Very durable and relentless fighter.

[Enlightened-One]

Who did GGG defeat to earn the right to engage in his very first world title bout at 160lbs?

GGG didn't get to fight Sergio, or even Sturm, in his first title shot though. He fought for the WBA Regular title. That's the equivalent of Charlo fighting Rob Brant, not Canelo.

Gennady Golovkin was elevated to being the WBA Super world middleweight champion, between fights, shortly after the Osumanu Adama bout. He once again captured another world championship outside of the ring, when he was awarded the WBC crown, between fights, shortly after the Dominic Wade bout.

So I'll ask you again, who did GGG defeat to earn the right to engage in his very first world title bout at 160lbs?

Is it reasonable to assume that the Jermall Charlo is currently more qualified to challenge for a world title than the 2010 version of Gennady Golovkin (who had only competed in 18 pro bouts)?

How many hoops did GGG have to jump through to get the first Canelo fight? Charlo has done nowhere near that. Not even close.

Why have you chosen to change the topic? GGG was already the WBC world middleweight champion when he faced Canelo? What has the Canelo bout got to do with Jermall Charlo's mandated WBC title shot?

In my mind, it's simply an extremely dishonest debating tactic to introduce irrelevant facts or arguments to distract from answering the actual question at hand.

Should Jermall Charlo be deemed as being a better qualified title challenger than the likes of Lajuan Simon, Kassim Ouma and Nobuhiro Ishida who all fought GGG for his WBA championship, despite possessing losing records?

Just because some undeserving fighters got a title shot, doesn't mean other undeserving fighters should. It happens. As fans of the sport, we should be against ALL undeserving title shots, not selective based on who it is.

This doesn't actually happen though, does it? GGG is a very popular fighter and will always receive a free pass no matter whom he fights (i.e. some of Golovkin's die-hard fans, including your good self, possessed the sheer audacity to claim that Vanes Martirosyan was a very fine middleweights world title contender).

Prior to his bout against GGG, Vanes Martirosyan had never beaten a top fighter, was inactive for two years, gained only one victory (coupled with two losses) within the previous 3½ years, wasn't a middleweight and wasn’t rated in the top fifteen of the IBO, WBA & WBC. Vanes Martirosyan's resume was so bad that the IBF understandably refused to sanction the career long 154lb-er as a viable opponent for Golovkin.

The Kazakh is immune from receiving criticism, but the Charlo twins rarely receive any sort of praise, no matter what they do.

Jermall Charlo defeated the middleweight division’s highest-ranked WBC title challenger when he stopped Jorge Sebastian Heiland within four rounds, which was a final eliminator to determine the mandatory challenger to face GGG (as confirmed by Mauricio Sulaiman himself).

He then became the WBC's interim 160-pound champion when he KO’d Hugo Centeno Jr. during his very next outing, a bout that was ordered by the WBC, which further cemented his mandatory challenger status.

Wherever Heiland and Centeno were ranked, both are poor fighters relative to the level we're talking about here. Heiland also fought with a pretty bad injury, and also has a loss to Nilson Tapia (supposedly one of Golovkin's tomato cans) on his record. Centeno is a blown up junior middleweight (something else you've criticised Golovkin for fighting), and a poor one at that. Vanes was a better opponent, in all honesty.

Jermall Charlo beat whom he was mandated to face by the WBC, which meant that he had to overcome the fighters dictated to him by Mauricio Sulaimán. The American cannot be blamed for this rather simple and blatantly obvious fact.

Jermall Charlo has been the mandatory challenger to the WBC middleweight crown for more than sixteen months! Charlo was told by the WBC that the winner of the Canelo vs. Golovkin rematch would be forced to face him next, but it seems Mauricio Sulaimán lied.

He should have lost (albeit very narrowly) to an old, inactive (and average, as a professional) Korobov. He has unfinished business there, before he deserves to even think about fighting Canelo.

ESPN believed that Jermall Charlo defeated Matt Korobov by a 116-112 margin. BS.com also awarded the bout to Charlo, as did BloodyElbow, as well as The RING. I can cite other media outlets confirming the same verdict.

It seems that the consensus opinion held by the media is that Jermall Charlo deserved his narrow victory over Matt Korobov.

There’s no need for a rematch, because the American has waited long enough for his title shot. And I don’t believe he should overcome more hurdles than any other world title contenders, since the rules have to applied consistently, rather than selectively (such as those that dishonestly choose to apply double-standards, based solely on their appreciation or hatred of certain fighters).

The WBC has already demanded that Jermall Charlo engage in a third world title eliminator against GGG. Mauricio Sulaiman should either force Golovkin or Canelo to face Charlo next, depending on whatever direction the Kazakh or the Mexican choose to take their respective careers. Alternatively, Charlo should be able to fight the next highest contender to challenge for the vacant WBC world middleweight championship.

[apollo creed]

Who did GGG defeat to earn the right to engage in his very first world title bout at 160lbs?

GGG didn't get to fight Sergio, or even Sturm, in his first title shot though. He fought for the WBA Regular title. That's the equivalent of Charlo fighting Rob Brant, not Canelo.

Gennady Golovkin was elevated to being the WBA Super world middleweight champion, between fights, shortly after the Osumanu Adama bout. He once again captured another world championship outside of the ring, when he was awarded the WBC crown, between fights, shortly after the Dominic Wade bout.

So I'll ask you again, who did GGG defeat to earn the right to engage in his very first world title bout at 160lbs?

Is it reasonable to assume that the Jermall Charlo is currently more qualified to challenge for a world title than the 2010 version of Gennady Golovkin (who had only competed in 18 pro bouts)?

How many hoops did GGG have to jump through to get the first Canelo fight? Charlo has done nowhere near that. Not even close.

Why have you chosen to change the topic? GGG was already the WBC world middleweight champion when he faced Canelo? What has the Canelo bout got to do with Jermall Charlo's mandated WBC title shot?

In my mind, it's simply an extremely dishonest debating tactic to introduce irrelevant facts or arguments to distract from answering the actual question at hand.

Should Jermall Charlo be deemed as being a better qualified title challenger than the likes of Lajuan Simon, Kassim Ouma and Nobuhiro Ishida who all fought GGG for his WBA championship, despite possessing losing records?

Just because some undeserving fighters got a title shot, doesn't mean other undeserving fighters should. It happens. As fans of the sport, we should be against ALL undeserving title shots, not selective based on who it is.

This doesn't actually happen though, does it? GGG is a very popular fighter and will always receive a free pass no matter whom he fights (i.e. some of Golovkin's die-hard fans, including your good self, possessed the sheer audacity to claim that Vanes Martirosyan was a very fine middleweights world title contender).

The Kazakh is immune from receiving criticism, but the Charlo twins rarely receive any sort of praise, no matter what they do.

Jermall Charlo defeated the middleweight division’s highest-ranked WBC title challenger when he stopped Jorge Sebastian Heiland within four rounds, which was a final eliminator to determine the mandatory challenger to face GGG (as confirmed by Mauricio Sulaiman himself).

He then became the WBC's interim 160-pound champion when he KO’d Hugo Centeno Jr. during his very next outing, a bout that was ordered by the WBC, which further cemented his mandatory challenger status.

Wherever Heiland and Centeno were ranked, both are poor fighters relative to the level we're talking about here. Heiland also fought with a pretty bad injury, and also has a loss to Nilson Tapia (supposedly one of Golovkin's tomato cans) on his record. Centeno is a blown up junior middleweight (something else you've criticised Golovkin for fighting), and a poor one at that. Vanes was a better opponent, in all honesty.

Jermall Charlo beat whom he was mandated to face by the WBC, which meant that he had to overcome the fighters dictated to him by Mauricio Sulaimán. The American cannot be blamed for this rather simple and blatantly obvious fact.

Jermall Charlo has been the mandatory challenger to the WBC middleweight crown for more than sixteen months! Charlo was told by the WBC that the winner of the Canelo vs. Golovkin rematch would be forced to face him next, but it seems Mauricio Sulaimán lied.

He should have lost (albeit very narrowly) to an old, inactive (and average, as a professional) Korobov. He has unfinished business there, before he deserves to even think about fighting Canelo.

ESPN believed that Jermall Charlo defeated Matt Korobov by a 116-112 margin. BS.com also awarded the bout to Charlo, as did BloodyElbow, as well as The RING. I can cite other media outlets confirming the same verdict.

It seems that the consensus opinion held by the media is that Jermall Charlo deserved his narrow victory over Matt Korobov.

There’s no need for a rematch, because the American has waited long enough for his title shot. And I don’t believe he should overcome more hurdles than any other world title contenders, since the rules have to applied consistently, rather than selectively (such as those that dishonestly choose to apply double-standards, based solely on their appreciation or hatred of certain fighters).

The WBC has already demanded that Jermall Charlo engage in a third world title eliminator against GGG. Mauricio Sulaiman should either force Golovkin or Canelo to face Charlo next, depending on whatever direction the Kazakh or the Mexican choose to take their respective careers. Alternatively, Charlo should be able to fight the next highest contender to challenge for the vacant WBC world middleweight championship.

ok Fergus. Charlo defeat Korobov but..... just on scorecards.

[apollo creed]

Who did GGG defeat to earn the right to engage in his very first world title bout at 160lbs?

GGG didn't get to fight Sergio, or even Sturm, in his first title shot though. He fought for the WBA Regular title. That's the equivalent of Charlo fighting Rob Brant, not Canelo.

Gennady Golovkin was elevated to being the WBA Super world middleweight champion, between fights, shortly after the Osumanu Adama bout. He once again captured another world championship outside of the ring, when he was awarded the WBC crown, between fights, shortly after the Dominic Wade bout.

So I'll ask you again, who did GGG defeat to earn the right to engage in his very first world title bout at 160lbs?

Is it reasonable to assume that the Jermall Charlo is currently more qualified to challenge for a world title than the 2010 version of Gennady Golovkin (who had only competed in 18 pro bouts)?

How many hoops did GGG have to jump through to get the first Canelo fight? Charlo has done nowhere near that. Not even close.

Why have you chosen to change the topic? GGG was already the WBC world middleweight champion when he faced Canelo? What has the Canelo bout got to do with Jermall Charlo's mandated WBC title shot?

In my mind, it's simply an extremely dishonest debating tactic to introduce irrelevant facts or arguments to distract from answering the actual question at hand.

Should Jermall Charlo be deemed as being a better qualified title challenger than the likes of Lajuan Simon, Kassim Ouma and Nobuhiro Ishida who all fought GGG for his WBA championship, despite possessing losing records?

Just because some undeserving fighters got a title shot, doesn't mean other undeserving fighters should. It happens. As fans of the sport, we should be against ALL undeserving title shots, not selective based on who it is.

This doesn't actually happen though, does it? GGG is a very popular fighter and will always receive a free pass no matter whom he fights (i.e. some of Golovkin's die-hard fans, including your good self, possessed the sheer audacity to claim that Vanes Martirosyan was a very fine middleweights world title contender).

Prior to his bout against GGG, Vanes Martirosyan had never beaten a top fighter, was inactive for two years, gained only one victory (coupled with two losses) within the previous 3½ years, wasn't a middleweight and wasn’t rated in the top fifteen of the IBO, WBA & WBC. Vanes Martirosyan's resume was so bad that the IBF understandably refused to sanction the career long 154lb-er as a viable opponent for Golovkin.

The Kazakh is immune from receiving criticism, but the Charlo twins rarely receive any sort of praise, no matter what they do.

Jermall Charlo defeated the middleweight division’s highest-ranked WBC title challenger when he stopped Jorge Sebastian Heiland within four rounds, which was a final eliminator to determine the mandatory challenger to face GGG (as confirmed by Mauricio Sulaiman himself).

He then became the WBC's interim 160-pound champion when he KO’d Hugo Centeno Jr. during his very next outing, a bout that was ordered by the WBC, which further cemented his mandatory challenger status.

Wherever Heiland and Centeno were ranked, both are poor fighters relative to the level we're talking about here. Heiland also fought with a pretty bad injury, and also has a loss to Nilson Tapia (supposedly one of Golovkin's tomato cans) on his record. Centeno is a blown up junior middleweight (something else you've criticised Golovkin for fighting), and a poor one at that. Vanes was a better opponent, in all honesty.

Jermall Charlo beat whom he was mandated to face by the WBC, which meant that he had to overcome the fighters dictated to him by Mauricio Sulaimán. The American cannot be blamed for this rather simple and blatantly obvious fact.

Jermall Charlo has been the mandatory challenger to the WBC middleweight crown for more than sixteen months! Charlo was told by the WBC that the winner of the Canelo vs. Golovkin rematch would be forced to face him next, but it seems Mauricio Sulaimán lied.

He should have lost (albeit very narrowly) to an old, inactive (and average, as a professional) Korobov. He has unfinished business there, before he deserves to even think about fighting Canelo.

ESPN believed that Jermall Charlo defeated Matt Korobov by a 116-112 margin. BS.com also awarded the bout to Charlo, as did BloodyElbow, as well as The RING. I can cite other media outlets confirming the same verdict.

It seems that the consensus opinion held by the media is that Jermall Charlo deserved his narrow victory over Matt Korobov.

There’s no need for a rematch, because the American has waited long enough for his title shot. And I don’t believe he should overcome more hurdles than any other world title contenders, since the rules have to applied consistently, rather than selectively (such as those that dishonestly choose to apply double-standards, based solely on their appreciation or hatred of certain fighters).

The WBC has already demanded that Jermall Charlo engage in a third world title eliminator against GGG. Mauricio Sulaiman should either force Golovkin or Canelo to face Charlo next, depending on whatever direction the Kazakh or the Mexican choose to take their respective careers. Alternatively, Charlo should be able to fight the next highest contender to challenge for the vacant WBC world middleweight championship.

No sh*t Fergus?

No sanctioning body can demand to Canelo or GGG to fight somebody if it doesn't make lot's of $ense. You know why? Because Canelo can vacate anytime he wants and then bye, bye sanction fees!
What Charlo should do to become relevant for the top dogs is to clearly win a meaningful fight vs Jacobs or BJS but atm Charlo still has Korobov problems.

[Ruthless-RKO]

Why not rematch Korobov. Majority had him losing that fight. I've seen only very few so far that thought Charlo beat Korobov, which is only on this forum. I've not ran into anyone that thought Charlo won on another.

He needs to earn his place like Jacobs, Derevyanchenko, and BJS have. You don't get big fights mouthing off and getting schooled by half-retired, AARP-card-holding boxers.

Yehh if we’re gonna see a Jermell-Harrison rematch. We might as wel have a Jermall-Korobov rematch too.

[Deleted_Scenes]

Gennady Golovkin was elevated to being the WBA Super world middleweight champion, between fights, shortly after the Osumanu Adama bout. He once again captured another world championship outside of the ring, when he was awarded the WBC crown, between fights, shortly after the Dominic Wade bout.

So I'll ask you again, who did GGG defeat to earn the right to engage in his very first world title bout at 160lbs?

I'm not defending the names on Golovkin's record.

Why have you chosen to change the topic? GGG was already the WBC world middleweight champion when he faced Canelo? What has the Canelo bout got to do with Jermall Charlo's mandated WBC title shot?

In my mind, it's simply an extremely dishonest debating tactic to introduce irrelevant facts or arguments to distract from answering the actual question at hand.

It's not irrelevant though. Charlo is calling out Canelo specifically. He's not wanting to fight for Rob Brant's belt, then get elevated to full champion outside the ring. He wants Canelo. You yourself have said the reason he wants Canelo, and not Jacobs or Andrade, is money. I agree, just let's not pretend this is just about the green belt. There are a few million other reasons Charlo wants Canelo, belt or no belt.

This doesn't actually happen though, does it? GGG is a very popular fighter and will always receive a free pass no matter whom he fights (i.e. some of Golovkin's die-hard fans, including your good self, possessed the sheer audacity to claim that Vanes Martirosyan was a very fine middleweights world title contender).

Prior to his bout against GGG, Vanes Martirosyan had never beaten a top fighter, was inactive for two years, gained only one victory (coupled with two losses) within the previous 3½ years, wasn't a middleweight and wasn’t rated in the top fifteen of the IBO, WBA & WBC. Vanes Martirosyan's resume was so bad that the IBF understandably refused to sanction the career long 154lb-er as a viable opponent for Golovkin.

The Kazakh is immune from receiving criticism, but the Charlo twins rarely receive any sort of praise, no matter what they do.

I can't speak for others. I haven't, and won't, defend weak choice of opposition. I'm only applying the same standards to Charlo. The Vanes fight was bad management, although they were unfortunate in that Munguia wasn't sanctioned to fight, and Tecate put pressure on HBO force Golovkin to keep the date or not fight at all (ruling out fights against Saunders or Derevyanchenko). Still a bad fight though.

Jermall Charlo beat whom he was mandated to face by the WBC, which meant that he had to overcome the fighters dictated to him by Mauricio Sulaimán. The American cannot be blamed for this rather simple and blatantly obvious fact.

Can we not apply the same standards to Golovkin? He beat who he needed to beat to satisfy the WBA, right? So either both deserved shots at the title, or neither of them do. I'm not blaming Charlo for his situation, I'm just saying whatever the circumstances, he's done absolutely nothing worthwhile, since moving up to 160. Suggesting one is deserving, while the other wasn't, seems hypocritical to me.

ESPN believed that Jermall Charlo defeated Matt Korobov by a 116-112 margin. BS.com also awarded the bout to Charlo, as did BloodyElbow, as well as The RING. I can cite other media outlets confirming the same verdict.

It seems that the consensus opinion held by the media is that Jermall Charlo deserved his narrow victory over Matt Korobov.

There’s no need for a rematch, because the American has waited long enough for his title shot. And I don’t believe he should overcome more hurdles than any other world title contenders, since the rules have to applied consistently, rather than selectively (such as those that dishonestly choose to apply double-standards, based solely on their appreciation or hatred of certain fighters).

The WBC has already demanded that Jermall Charlo engage in a third world title eliminator against GGG. Mauricio Sulaiman should either force Golovkin or Canelo to face Charlo next, depending on whatever direction the Kazakh or the Mexican choose to take their respective careers. Alternatively, Charlo should be able to fight the next highest contender to challenge for the vacant WBC world middleweight championship.

As I've said, whoever the WBC wanted Charlo to fight, the opponents were all poor. Same as Golovkin's were. Golovkin satisfied the WBA. You're saying he fought nobody. I agree.

The Korobov fight was close, against an opponent slightly bigger, but no better than Vanes. There's unfinished business there, whichever way you scored it.

Middleweight right now, is like the heavyweights when the Klitschkos were at the top. Everyone wants to fight Canelo or Golovkin. Nobody in the queue wants to fight each other and earn it. The only one deserving, is Danny Jacobs.

[apollo creed]

Gennady Golovkin was elevated to being the WBA Super world middleweight champion, between fights, shortly after the Osumanu Adama bout. He once again captured another world championship outside of the ring, when he was awarded the WBC crown, between fights, shortly after the Dominic Wade bout.

So I'll ask you again, who did GGG defeat to earn the right to engage in his very first world title bout at 160lbs?

I'm not defending the names on Golovkin's record.

Why have you chosen to change the topic? GGG was already the WBC world middleweight champion when he faced Canelo? What has the Canelo bout got to do with Jermall Charlo's mandated WBC title shot?

In my mind, it's simply an extremely dishonest debating tactic to introduce irrelevant facts or arguments to distract from answering the actual question at hand.

It's not irrelevant though. Charlo is calling out Canelo specifically. He's not wanting to fight for Rob Brant's belt, then get elevated to full champion outside the ring. He wants Canelo. You yourself have said the reason he wants Canelo, and not Jacobs or Andrade, is money. I agree, just let's not pretend this is just about the green belt. There are a few million other reasons Charlo wants Canelo, belt or no belt.

This doesn't actually happen though, does it? GGG is a very popular fighter and will always receive a free pass no matter whom he fights (i.e. some of Golovkin's die-hard fans, including your good self, possessed the sheer audacity to claim that Vanes Martirosyan was a very fine middleweights world title contender).

Prior to his bout against GGG, Vanes Martirosyan had never beaten a top fighter, was inactive for two years, gained only one victory (coupled with two losses) within the previous 3½ years, wasn't a middleweight and wasn’t rated in the top fifteen of the IBO, WBA & WBC. Vanes Martirosyan's resume was so bad that the IBF understandably refused to sanction the career long 154lb-er as a viable opponent for Golovkin.

The Kazakh is immune from receiving criticism, but the Charlo twins rarely receive any sort of praise, no matter what they do.

I can't speak for others. I haven't, and won't, defend weak choice of opposition. I'm only applying the same standards to Charlo. The Vanes fight was bad management, although they were unfortunate in that Munguia wasn't sanctioned to fight, and Tecate put pressure on HBO force Golovkin to keep the date or not fight at all (ruling out fights against Saunders or Derevyanchenko). Still a bad fight though.

Jermall Charlo beat whom he was mandated to face by the WBC, which meant that he had to overcome the fighters dictated to him by Mauricio Sulaimán. The American cannot be blamed for this rather simple and blatantly obvious fact.

Can we not apply the same standards to Golovkin? He beat who he needed to beat to satisfy the WBA, right? So either both deserved shots at the title, or neither of them do. I'm not blaming Charlo for his situation, I'm just saying whatever the circumstances, he's done absolutely nothing worthwhile, since moving up to 160. Suggesting one is deserving, while the other wasn't, seems hypocritical to me.

ESPN believed that Jermall Charlo defeated Matt Korobov by a 116-112 margin. BS.com also awarded the bout to Charlo, as did BloodyElbow, as well as The RING. I can cite other media outlets confirming the same verdict.

It seems that the consensus opinion held by the media is that Jermall Charlo deserved his narrow victory over Matt Korobov.

There’s no need for a rematch, because the American has waited long enough for his title shot. And I don’t believe he should overcome more hurdles than any other world title contenders, since the rules have to applied consistently, rather than selectively (such as those that dishonestly choose to apply double-standards, based solely on their appreciation or hatred of certain fighters).

The WBC has already demanded that Jermall Charlo engage in a third world title eliminator against GGG. Mauricio Sulaiman should either force Golovkin or Canelo to face Charlo next, depending on whatever direction the Kazakh or the Mexican choose to take their respective careers. Alternatively, Charlo should be able to fight the next highest contender to challenge for the vacant WBC world middleweight championship.

As I've said, whoever the WBC wanted Charlo to fight, the opponents were all poor. Same as Golovkin's were. Golovkin satisfied the WBA. You're saying he fought nobody. I agree.

The Korobov fight was close, against an opponent slightly bigger, but no better than Vanes. There's unfinished business there, whichever way you scored it.

Middleweight right now, is like the heavyweights when the Klitschkos were at the top. Everyone wants to fight Canelo or Golovkin. Nobody in the queue wants to fight each other and earn it. The only one deserving, is Danny Jacobs.

wow! I admire your calm and patience to respond in this manner to that biased lunatic.

I agree that the only mw that worked hard to earn a shot to Canelo is Jacobs. The rest of them are unwilling to build up their own legacies.

[Enlightened-One]

Gennady Golovkin was elevated to being the WBA Super world middleweight champion, between fights, shortly after the Osumanu Adama bout. He once again captured another world championship outside of the ring, when he was awarded the WBC crown, between fights, shortly after the Dominic Wade bout.

So I'll ask you again, who did GGG defeat to earn the right to engage in his very first world title bout at 160lbs?

I'm not defending the names on Golovkin's record.

Fair enough, it seems we agree on this matter, so we'll move on...

Why have you chosen to change the topic? GGG was already the WBC world middleweight champion when he faced Canelo? What has the Canelo bout got to do with Jermall Charlo's mandated WBC title shot?

In my mind, it's simply an extremely dishonest debating tactic to introduce irrelevant facts or arguments to distract from answering the actual question at hand.

It's not irrelevant though. Charlo is calling out Canelo specifically. He's not wanting to fight for Rob Brant's belt, then get elevated to full champion outside the ring. He wants Canelo. You yourself have said the reason he wants Canelo, and not Jacobs or Andrade, is money. I agree, just let's not pretend this is just about the green belt. There are a few million other reasons Charlo wants Canelo, belt or no belt.

I am arguing that Charlo deserves a shot at the WBC title, because he has been the mandatory challenger to the WBC middleweight crown for more than sixteen months! Also, the WBC previously promised him that the winner of the Canelo vs. Golovkin rematch would be forced to face him next, but it seems Mauricio Sulaimán lied.

The WBC recently demanded that Jermall Charlo engage in a third world title eliminator against GGG.

Let's not forget that Jermall Charlo has already defeated the middleweight division’s highest-ranked WBC title challenger when he stopped Jorge Sebastian Heiland within four rounds, which was a final eliminator to determine the mandatory challenger to face GGG (as confirmed by Mauricio Sulaiman himself).

He also then became the WBC's interim 160-pound champion when he KO’d Hugo Centeno Jr. during his very next outing, a bout that was ordered by the WBC, which further cemented his mandatory challenger status.

What more does the American have to do to receive his shot at the WBC world middleweight championship?

Therefore:
• If Canelo has bigger fish to fry than sharing the ring with a fighter like Jermall Charlo, then he should vacate his WBC championship.
• Similarly, if GGG doesn't want to participate in the WBC-mandated final eliminator against Charlo, then he should remove himself from the WBC's ratings.

Simply put: Jermall Charlo deserves a shot at the WBC world title. If Canelo or GGG aren’t interested in facing him, then they should renounce their interest in the WBC world championship.

It’s also a fact that cannot possibly be refuted that both Canelo and GGG have faced weaker opposition in world title fights than Jermall Charlo.

This doesn't actually happen though, does it? GGG is a very popular fighter and will always receive a free pass no matter whom he fights (i.e. some of Golovkin's die-hard fans, including your good self, possessed the sheer audacity to claim that Vanes Martirosyan was a very fine middleweights world title contender).

Prior to his bout against GGG, Vanes Martirosyan had never beaten a top fighter, was inactive for two years, gained only one victory (coupled with two losses) within the previous 3½ years, wasn't a middleweight and wasn’t rated in the top fifteen of the IBO, WBA & WBC. Vanes Martirosyan's resume was so bad that the IBF understandably refused to sanction the career long 154lb-er as a viable opponent for Golovkin.

The Kazakh is immune from receiving criticism, but the Charlo twins rarely receive any sort of praise, no matter what they do.

I can't speak for others. I haven't, and won't, defend weak choice of opposition. I'm only applying the same standards to Charlo. The Vanes fight was bad management, although they were unfortunate in that Munguia wasn't sanctioned to fight, and Tecate put pressure on HBO force Golovkin to keep the date or not fight at all (ruling out fights against Saunders or Derevyanchenko). Still a bad fight though.

Jaime Munguia was merely a prospect at 154lbs when Tom Loeffler mentioned his name as a potential candidate to face GGG.

The 21-year old youngster, had never fought 12 rounds, he wasn’t a middleweight and, at that point in time, he had never faced anyone remotely considered as being world-class. Understandably, the Nevada State Athletic Commission refused to sanction Jaime Munguia as a suitable opponent for GGG, because he simply wasn't good enough, since they perceived a bout between the Mexican and the Kazakh as being a dangerous mismatch.

In regards to your allegation about “Tecate putting pressure on HBO to force Golovkin to keep” the Cinco De Mayo fight-date, I haven’t found any evidence to substantiate it. That being said, I have read multiple articles claiming that it was GGG who insisted on fighting on 5th May, 2018, as confirmed by Tom Loeffler, because he feels like he’s a “Mexican” and was proud of the support he received from the fans from Mexico.

Also, Sergiy Derevyanchenko was definitely available to compete on the 2018 Cinco De Mayo fight-date, but Tom Loeffler openly admitted to making no attempt to make that fight, despite the Ukraine being the mandatory challenger for GGG’s IBF title.

Team Golovkin actually preferred to vacate the IBF championship in preference to facing an inactive light-middleweight that was on a poor run of forum instead - Vanes Martirosyan.

Jermall Charlo beat whom he was mandated to face by the WBC, which meant that he had to overcome the fighters dictated to him by Mauricio Sulaimán. The American cannot be blamed for this rather simple and blatantly obvious fact.

Can we not apply the same standards to Golovkin? He beat who he needed to beat to satisfy the WBA, right? So either both deserved shots at the title, or neither of them do.

That's simply not true!

The vast majority of GGG's title fights were voluntary defences against hand-picked opposition (i.e. not mandatory challengers), guys that weren’t considered top-ten middleweights, with the vast majority of them being former welterweights/light middleweights:

• Dominic Wade
• Willie Monroe Jr.
• Osumanu Adama
• Marco Antonio Rubio
• Curtis Stevens
• Nobuhiro Ishida
• Gabriel Rosado
• Grzegorz Proksa
• Makoto Fuchigami
• Lajuan Simon
• Kassim Ouma
• Kell Brook
• Vanes Martirosyan
• Nilson Julio Tapia
• Milton Nunez

This means that for all of his voluntary title defences, Team GGG were able to pick-and-choose the opponents that Golovkin faced from a lengthy list of qualified contenders.

In stark contrast, Mauricio Sulaiman ordered bouts between Charlo and the likes of Jorge Sebastian Heiland, Hugo Centeno Jr. and Gennady Golovkin. This means that the WBC actually named the opponents that Jermall was expected to face!

ESPN believed that Jermall Charlo defeated Matt Korobov by a 116-112 margin. BS.com also awarded the bout to Charlo, as did BloodyElbow, as well as The RING. I can cite other media outlets confirming the same verdict.

It seems that the consensus opinion held by the media is that Jermall Charlo deserved his narrow victory over Matt Korobov.

There’s no need for a rematch, because the American has waited long enough for his title shot. And I don’t believe he should overcome more hurdles than any other world title contenders, since the rules have to applied consistently, rather than selectively (such as those that dishonestly choose to apply double-standards, based solely on their appreciation or hatred of certain fighters).

The WBC has already demanded that Jermall Charlo engage in a third world title eliminator against GGG. Mauricio Sulaiman should either force Golovkin or Canelo to face Charlo next, depending on whatever direction the Kazakh or the Mexican choose to take their respective careers. Alternatively, Charlo should be able to fight the next highest contender to challenge for the vacant WBC world middleweight championship.

As I've said, whoever the WBC wanted Charlo to fight, the opponents were all poor. Same as Golovkin's were. Golovkin satisfied the WBA. You're saying he fought nobody. I agree.

As per my previous comments, the vast majority of the opponents that GGG faced in world championship fights weren’t mandatory challengers – they were hand-picked opponents participating in voluntary title defences.

In stark contrast, the opposition for two of Jermall Charlo’s three bouts at 160lbs were actually ordered by the WBC (i.e. the American didn't actually pick the men he was instructed to share the ring with). He’s also been ordered to compete in a third title eliminator for the WBC’s middleweight crown against GGG. Also, Jermall's most recent middleweight opponent, Matt Korobov, is almost certainly better than most of the names I mentioned earlier that Golovkin defended his title(s) against.

Simply put: if Canelo and/or Golovkin refuse to renounce their interest in the WBC world middleweight championship, then they shouldn’t be allowed to avoid facing Jermall Charlo, because if GGG doesn’t want to compete in the final eliminator ordered by Mauricio Sulaimán, then the WBC should demand that Saul Alvarez defend his belt against the American instead. It's really that simple!

[apollo creed]

1-wbc is gonna do what is the best in Canelo's interest
2-Charlo needs to rematch Korobov to clear the waters bc he got boxed by Korobov
3-GGG could fight Canelo at 160 lbs or at 168lbs belts or no belts and it would not matter if it makes $ense
4-Charlo failed to prove himself as a worthy future champion bc he got boxed by an old -B level fighter
5-GGG's resume dwarfs anything Charlo has done at ams and pros
6- Korobov is a long time has-been of GGG and Andy Lee

[Enlightened-One]

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[Enlightened-One]

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[jamamb]

yup creed is a bit nutty, and the forums most obsessed charlo poster

funny enough he trashes jermall for apparently not fighting anyone, yet then he he still trashes him when charlo calls to fight top guys . clearly creed doesnt want charlo to fight a top guy . almost as if hes afraid jermall might win and so he wont be able to bash him anymore.

lol ya lets have brant vs ggg or murata vs ggg, but nah ggg vs charlo shouldnt happen

[tiny_acres]

Sure he wants GGG or Canelo. it's where the money is.
if I was a rated middleweight I'd be begging to take on either for the big bucks. you can't blame a guy for trying

[Mexi-Box]

yup creed is a bit nutty, and the forums most obsessed charlo poster

funny enough he trashes jermall for apparently not fighting anyone, yet then he he still trashes him when charlo calls to fight top guys . clearly creed doesnt want charlo to fight a top guy . almost as if hes afraid jermall might win and so he wont be able to bash him anymore.

lol ya lets have brant vs ggg or murata vs ggg, but nah ggg vs charlo shouldnt happen

At this point, Brant deserves it more than both.

[gilgamesh]

Sure he wants GGG or Canelo. it's where the money is.
if I was a rated middleweight I'd be begging to take on either for the big bucks. you can't blame a guy for trying

Yeah, and I mean there ain't a lot of guys at Middleweight that would be all intriguing to fight anyhow. There's Danny Jacobs, Jermall and I guess maybe a few other dudes, but not really much. We'll see who he fights. But there's probably some more interesting options at Super Middleweight.

[godosin]

apollo creed is a pȅnӏs!

Also, eight of the eleven replies to this thread were posted by ‘apollo creed’, which proves he’s a fûckîng crazy troll bàstàrd! He’s resorted to fûckîng talking to himself!

He can’t address the facts, so he resorts to insults. I’m a little surprised the forum moderators endorse his behaviour.

Yo, this is exactly what I was thinking a second ago. Lmao

[apollo creed]

yup creed is a bit nutty, and the forums most obsessed charlo poster

funny enough he trashes jermall for apparently not fighting anyone, yet then he he still trashes him when charlo calls to fight top guys . clearly creed doesnt want charlo to fight a top guy . almost as if hes afraid jermall might win and so he wont be able to bash him anymore.

lol ya lets have brant vs ggg or murata vs ggg, but nah ggg vs charlo shouldnt happen

At this point, Brant deserves it more than both.

No doubt. He beat Murata very clearly. Charlo just got boxed by old Korobov.

[apollo creed]

Charlo vs Korobov rematch to clear the things and then:
Charlo vs Jacobs (if Jacobs doesn't get Canelo)
Charlo vs BJS
Charlo vs Brant (if Brant doesn't get GGG)
Charlo vs Andrade

Charlo has lots of options to prove himself that he's willing to earn a shot in the right way at the top mw dogs.

Golovkin fought Stevens, Rubio, Murray, Geale, Lemieux and Jacobs till he got to Canelo. He worked hard for this.