Usyk: Number 2 Heavyweight in the world.

[gilgamesh]

He's not #anything until he actually fights in that weight class.

He's beat guys that have fought at that weight class and done really, really well. He's the #2 HW in the world if he moves up tomorrow.

Nah. It wouldn't take much to earn your way up pretty highly in the ranks, but it shouldn't just be bestowed upon you automatically.

[Jeff_lacy_ko]

No. He hasnt fought there so it is all speculation at this point. If we are blind ranking id favor joshua, wilder, and fury over him. Pulev and Miller would be fairly even given the size vs skill.

Id think 5 is safe

[DrDuke]

I won't say so. His heavyweight success is only theoretical for the current moment. I actually believe in it, but you can't count something, until it happens. For now he just have some indirect relation to the HWs. For example, in the amateurs he beat the HW sized guy, who is now considered as a top HW prospect. Also he stopped the guy, who is now a HW and once had given a tough fight to the one of the today's top HWs. Also he beat the guy, who had knocked out a HW fringe contender. So, he kinda has some indirect evidence of his capability at the HWs, which is backed up by Usyk's anthropometrics, which is pretty fitting for the HWs, and also backed up by Usyk's skill-set, which is higher, than the most of the current HWs have (actually only The Gypsy King is comparable). But all that is a theory. You need to prove it to be highly ranked. Usyk must be automatically a top HW, but still not higher, than Fury, Joshua, Wilder, Povetkin and Whyte at least.

[candyslim]

In reality, a solid #4 as I think he beats Whyte right out of the gate.
Whatever his boxrec ranking, it's rightfully earned until he is beaten.

Not really. The boxrec point system is flawed and based on algorithms and generally means very little.

His real ranking will be earned in the ring.

Exactly. The BoxRec ratings are the very worst there is, with the sole exception of all the others.

My initial reaction to the thread title was "Ffs can we at least wait for him to beat a heavyweight before we start lauding him as number two in the division?" I mean why not leave him as a cruiser in the meantime? I accept though that points accumulated at cruiser have to be converted to heavyweight in accordance with the process.

The beauty of the BoxRec formula is in its purity. Yes it's flawed and throws up some aberations that are very obviously nonsense, but the system is honest and free from the hand of corruption. If the BoxRec formula determines him to be number two then that'll do for me.

Oogiebe suggests (if I haven't misunderstood) that there should be corrections made to the errant results occasionally thrown up by the system. That sounds appealing but as soon as you introduce an element of human bias, however benign, sensible, and well intentioned, you are contaminating the essential purity of the system which makes BoxRec's rankings the best by virtue of their impartiality .You do see that don't you?

Far better of course to improve the method by which the points are calculated but this is no easy task and I'm sure must be an ongoing evolutionary process.

[Ruthless-RKO]

I don’t really take the Boxrec rankings THAT seriously. It’s all computerised. I don’t at all mind the system, it’s good, but I don’t get upset over it or judge it too much.

Charlie Edwards is listed the best Flyweight on Boxrec.. why? Because he beat the highest ranked flyweight and took his points.. does that mean he’s the best flyweight? Course not.

[ewenhay]

The point is that you can't really rank someone no 2 at a higher weight by means of a calculation when he has never fought at the weight.

The fighter needs to earn the new ranking at that weight in the ring.

[computerrank]

I will give it a try. Boxers carry only 70 percent of their rating to the next higher division as a start point there. Step up by 2 divisions 50 percent etc. Exemption: from Light Heavyweight to Cruiserweight only 50 percent and from Cruiserweight to Heavyweight 25 percent. Going down the division keeps their rating points or they had a higher recent rating there.

[Enlightened-One]

According to BoxRec, if Usyk were to move to HW tomorrow, his points would be converted x.58. That would make him the number two ranked heavyweight behind AJ. Do you agree? Why? I certainly do not.

BoxRec currently rates Luis Nery as being sixth on their pound-for-pound ratings.

Up until recently, BoxRec also rated Jeff Horn amongst the pound-for-pound elite (they ranked him in 9th place).

I really don’t think I need to say anything more than that to make my point any clearer.

[Pukka Cheese]

Has Joshua beat anyone you would favour over Usyk?
Id back him to dance circles around old Wlad, Pov & timid Parker...

I think Usyk drops straight in as a top 5 HW and will prove it 2019

[jujigatame]

The answer is yes, IMO.

AJ is the only HW that has a greater than 50/50 shot at beating Usyk.

[candyslim]

I'd add Fury purely because of his size taken together with his style. Usyk won't be able to hurt Fury and he'll spend 10 rounds trying to close the range which won't stay closed, all the while trying to keep Fury's left glove out of his face.

Usyk likes to stay in the pocket but Fury won't let him.

[DrDuke]

I'd add Fury purely because of his size taken together with his style. Usyk won't be able to hurt Fury and he'll spend 10 rounds trying to close the range which won't stay closed, all the while trying to keep Fury's left glove out of his face.

Usyk likes to stay in the pocket but Fury won't let him.

That's right. You gotta be inside fighting genius to get to The Gypsy King and to win him in close quarters. Usyk is an outfighter and he won't be able to outbox the guy with similar class, but bigger height and reach.

[caldo2025]

Lol. These Russian posters need to go to another site. It’s the Cold War all over again though instead of hiding middles in Cuba, they are clearly posting crap like this at every waking moment. Go away you dumb Ruskies. This site is infested with idiots now and they are all wearing fur hats and their dinner is everything they got trapping today. Go away. Who gave these idiots computers?

[jamamb]

lol ya russia and ukraine are so cozy arent they

[candyslim]

I'd add Fury purely because of his size taken together with his style. Usyk won't be able to hurt Fury and he'll spend 10 rounds trying to close the range which won't stay closed, all the while trying to keep Fury's left glove out of his face.

Usyk likes to stay in the pocket but Fury won't let him.

That's right. You gotta be inside fighting genius to get to The Gypsy King and to win him in close quarters. Usyk is an outfighter and he won't be able to outbox the guy with similar class, but bigger height and reach.

Yeah I think Usyk is the better boxer no question, but not better enough to keep Fury within range. Trying to nullify Fury's movement is like herding cats unless you can hurt him and slow him down, and it helps if Fury's size advantage is within reasonable limits.

[oogiebe]

Yeah, Fury being so long; big; and fast is such a difficult thing to put into a comp with Usyk. I'm looking forward to seeing what will happen. I still think Gassiev is moving up to HW as well, once he's recovered.

[candyslim]

Maybe I'm doing the man a disservice but I can't see any cruiser but Usyk making a serious impression at the sharp end of the heavyweight division.

Besides, I think Gassiev's moving up to heavyweight should be discouraged or even outright banned on mental health grounds. The man is Russian. His arrival at heavyweight will provoke discussions ... lots of them. Poor Caldo is going to blow a gasket

[oogiebe]

Maybe I'm doing the man a disservice but I can't see any cruiser but Usyk making a serious impression at the sharp end of the heavyweight division.

Besides, I think Gassiev's moving up to heavyweight should be discouraged or even outright banned on mental health grounds. The man is Russian. His arrival at heavyweight will provoke discussions ... lots of them. Poor Caldo is going to blow a gasket

LMAO! Caldo is a figment of our imaginations.

[squiggy]

The beauty of the BoxRec formula is in its purity. Yes it's flawed and throws up some aberations that are very obviously nonsense, but the system is honest and free from the hand of corruption. If the BoxRec formula determines him to be number two then that'll do for me.

Oogiebe suggests (if I haven't misunderstood) that there should be corrections made to the errant results occasionally thrown up by the system. That sounds appealing but as soon as you introduce an element of human bias, however benign, sensible, and well intentioned, you are contaminating the essential purity of the system which makes BoxRec's rankings the best by virtue of their impartiality .You do see that don't you?

This is exactly how I look at it.

[squiggy]

According to BoxRec, if Usyk were to move to HW tomorrow, his points would be converted x.58. That would make him the number two ranked heavyweight behind AJ. Do you agree? Why? I certainly do not.

BoxRec currently rates Luis Nery as being sixth on their pound-for-pound ratings.

Up until recently, BoxRec also rated Jeff Horn amongst the pound-for-pound elite (they ranked him in 9th place).

I really don’t think I need to say anything more than that to make my point any clearer.

But as soon as you take points from someone because you don't think he deserves them, you're stripping away the uniqueness of the points system and making it another "here's what I think" list.

[candyslim]

Well said Squiggy.

[JCS]

People that outright dog the rating system don't realize all of the difficulties involved.

Changing a minimal factor can have a massive effect.... strange matchmaking, variances in fight lengths, the amount of weight divisions, the bad decisions.. on and on.. a fighter takes his rating into his/her next fight.. on and on.. and don't forget inactivity.

[candyslim]

Maybe I'm doing the man a disservice but I can't see any cruiser but Usyk making a serious impression at the sharp end of the heavyweight division.

Besides, I think Gassiev's moving up to heavyweight should be discouraged or even outright banned on mental health grounds. The man is Russian. His arrival at heavyweight will provoke discussions ... lots of them. Poor Caldo is going to blow a gasket

LMAO! Caldo is a figment of our imaginations.

I have never met Caldo but on the basis of gender alone I can assure you he bears no resemblance whatever to any of those fig-leaves of my imagination.

Damnit I meant figments

[oogiebe]

People that outright dog the rating system don't realize all of the difficulties involved.

Changing a minimal factor can have a massive effect.... strange matchmaking, variances in fight lengths, the amount of weight divisions, the bad decisions.. on and on.. a fighter takes his rating into his/her next fight.. on and on.. and don't forget inactivity.

It is, of course, the most difficult and most debated topic in our beloved sport. I don't have the right answers. While I can see inequities, I truly can't find the fix. I can bring up frustrations and offer options. It will never be perfect.

[oogiebe]

Maybe I'm doing the man a disservice but I can't see any cruiser but Usyk making a serious impression at the sharp end of the heavyweight division.

Besides, I think Gassiev's moving up to heavyweight should be discouraged or even outright banned on mental health grounds. The man is Russian. His arrival at heavyweight will provoke discussions ... lots of them. Poor Caldo is going to blow a gasket

LMAO! Caldo is a figment of our imaginations.

I have never met Caldo but on the basis of gender alone I can assure you he bears no resemblance whatever to any of those fig-leaves of my imagination.

Damnit I meant figments

That left a bad mental picture!