Hatton Invasion - Success or Failure?

johnswan1 · Post by **johnswan1** » 15 May 2006, 08:25

Bottom line is he got the W, but do you think Ricky can consider Saturday night to be a success?

The empty seats in the arena can be expected, the yanks usually need to be won over before they're willing to fork out for a ticket. There have been plenty of big fights in the US that didn't sell out or have looked very empty. Corrales-Castillo I was one of them.

I think the general consensus is that Ricky was a disappointment against Collazo. It's difficult to know how good Collazo really is - the only indicator was his split decision win over Rivera and I think a lot of people looked at the 3rd round TKO defeat on his record and wrote him off.

So where does Hatton go from here? I think a lot of the big name fighters would fancy their chances after that performance - my feeling is that DLH may very well be interested in doing it. What better way to bow out than to beat an undefeated P4P top ten fighter (at least he was before Collazo). Unfotunately for Hatton, I think if this comes off DLH would destroy him.

To conclude, I think Ricky has been exposed as a very good but limited fighter who will always do well against guys he is stronger than who he can bully. The Gatti fight now seems very appealing again. If he gets by Balomir and DLH takes a different opponent, I'd expect this one to happen next and would make Hatton favourite (but not as strong favourite as I previously thought). If Gatti loses, maybe Hatton would fight Castillo (I think he loses this in a very exciting fight)? Despite all of this, I still give Ricky a chance against Floyd with his pressuring style but PBF is in a league of his own and Ricky will always have trouble with classy skilled fighters, especially one as smart as Mayweather.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 15 May 2006, 08:29

He got the win and entertained so yeah I think it was a sucess.

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 15 May 2006, 08:42

Not what he was hoping for I'm sure.

And paymasters HBO must have been hoping for a sensation, rather than a game slugger struggling against "the opponent."

Talk of superfights on the back of the Collazo fight is subdued, and that certainly wasn't meant to happen was it?

To be brutaly honest, the loser was much more impressive than the winner.

He looked pretty clueless in the mid rounds, reminded me a bit of Tyson mid way against Holyfield: used to dominating his opponents 99% of the time, he wore a slightly bemused expression when things started going the other way.

But at least he showed the balls to pull things around in the end - even if he was almost knocked out in the 12th.

Back down to 140 defintely.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 15 May 2006, 08:55

Terence wrote:Fans will shell out en masse for PPV of Ricky versus Gatti or Floyd so this strenuous business trip has worked out IMO.

The PPV numbers wouldn't be as big here though.

punchers chance · Post by **punchers chance** » 15 May 2006, 10:50

I think the jury is still out. His reputation as a pound 4 pound Top 10 may have been slightly tarnished by a below par performance but the US fight fans will warm to the man, respect his honesty and fighting spirit.

If the reports are true he has also been rewarded well financially.
If the gate was poor or the promotion lost cash quite frankly that is not Hatton’s problem and he shouldn’t personally be judged on that.

Some people are knocking team Hatton for giving up 2 titles in order to acquire a belt that he will relinquish almost immediately. On the face of it this seems ridiculous but if he gets a US PPV headline fight, they might not look so foolish after all.

dve3333 · Post by **dve3333** » 15 May 2006, 10:53

They should put Hatton in with Gatti next I think. It makes financial sense, its a very winnable fight and its another bout at 147

Old bones Ian · Post by **Old bones Ian** » 15 May 2006, 11:07

dve3333 wrote:They should put Hatton in with Gatti next I think. It makes financial sense, its a very winnable fight and its another bout at 147

I think will be the plan if it was what his team wanted, but Orkal is the mandatory for the WBA title and Hatton has to defend it against him inside of 120 days, its not a fight that i can see Hatton or HBO being keen to happen, as it would be a hard sell. Also i can see Don King trying for a rematch for Collazo.

If Gatti beats Baldomir then Hatton may give up the WBA title to face Gatti.

I think though that Hatton may step back down to light-welter.

Achybreaky · Post by **Achybreaky** » 15 May 2006, 11:46

dve3333 wrote:They should put Hatton in with Gatti next I think. It makes financial sense, its a very winnable fight and its another bout at 147

It would be a good fight but it would also be used to critisize hatton. As gatti like tszyu was a top fighter before their respective bouts with pbf and hatton and were tipped by a lot of people to win actually went from being in their prime to being shot in a matter of minutes.

hitman_hatton1 · Post by **hitman_hatton1** » 15 May 2006, 12:56

least hatton's career is finally really going somewhere now. he won on saturday and gained something out of it.

under FW he was going nowhere for years.

just packing out venues and having the odd fight on showtime against opponents he was expected to beat.

we always wanted him to go to the states and show what he has and now he's doing it.

when u win the performance doesn't always matter.

bugs · Post by **bugs** » 15 May 2006, 13:12

hitman_hatton1 wrote:least hatton's career is finally really going somewhere now. he won on saturday and gained something out of it.

under FW he was going nowhere for years. just packing out venues and having the odd fight on showtime against opponents he was expected to beat.

we always wanted him to go to the states and show what he has and now he's doing it.

when u win the performance doesn't always matter.

Right, with Warren, one title fight, one belt, since leaving Warren, two title fights, two belts.

shoutout · Post by **shoutout** » 16 May 2006, 02:12

Max Molyneux wrote:
Terence wrote:Fans will shell out en masse for PPV of Ricky versus Gatti or Floyd so this strenuous business trip has worked out IMO.
The PPV numbers wouldn't be as big here though.

i'm sure if you add british PPV buys to the equation it would boost it a bit, but in usa, i dont think his performance was impressive enough to give him enuf of a name to bring any more PPV buys in america than mayweather-gatti did when they fought each other...360,000 or so!!

ricky needs a few more fights where he convincingly beats opposition like collazo (perhaps in rematch) to turn either of those fights into genuine megafights!! (500,000+ buys in usa)

Chambers2 · Post by **Chambers2** » 16 May 2006, 05:09

Hatton moved up in weight, fought on away turf, ground out a difficult win against a very good southpaw opponent IMO, whilst entertaining and became a 2-weight World champion, so I'd definately class it as a success.

We were hoping for a more precise outing from Ricky, but this is boxing and fighters can't always perform to their best every time they get in the ring. Ricky's fought alot better in the past, but he hasn't had so many obstacles to overcome in the past.

I must admit to being more worried as to what PBF's fast hands would do to Hatton.

Hopefully Ricky will get in with the winner of Castillo-Corrales or Gatti in his next fight

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 16 May 2006, 05:21

Castillo will be a hard night for Hatton. The guy isn't as big as Collazo, but he's a monster with a hell of a chin and a ferocious temperament. I can see that one being a real barnburner and a very dangerous fight for Hatton.

liamlion · Post by **liamlion** » 16 May 2006, 06:56

Chambers2 wrote:Hatton moved up in weight, fought on away turf, ground out a difficult win against a very good southpaw opponent IMO, whilst entertaining and became a 2-weight World champion, so I'd definately class it as a success.

We were hoping for a more precise outing from Ricky, but this is boxing and fighters can't always perform to their best every time they get in the ring. Ricky's fought alot better in the past, but he hasn't had so many obstacles to overcome in the past.

Yes. However I think Hatton has realised he cant perform to the level or with the same effect against the bigger and stronger boys of Welter, as he has at light-welter.

Given Hatton's post-fight comments the lad is honest enough to admit light-welter is where he should be. Hatton has given up his two belts at Light-welter, whilst the belt he holds at welter - is a belt that he knows isnt really in his interests to defend.

I think the gamble to give up two world titles at light-welter to step up into welter hasnt really paid off. Hatton cant really credibly fight any other fighter at welter without first giving Callazo a rematch - and I am sure that is a scenario Ricky's promoters would not have factored in prior to Saturday's fight. And given Saturday's fight, rematching Callzao is an option that Ricky's team will not be keen to take.

I think Ricky's team will be reassessing his career path. The tough transition from light-welter to welter may have been under-estimated (by Ricky's promoters) on the basis of Mayweather and Gatti's seemingly easy move up.

Chambers2 · Post by **Chambers2** » 16 May 2006, 07:49

liamlion wrote:
Chambers2 wrote:Hatton moved up in weight, fought on away turf, ground out a difficult win against a very good southpaw opponent IMO, whilst entertaining and became a 2-weight World champion, so I'd definately class it as a success.

We were hoping for a more precise outing from Ricky, but this is boxing and fighters can't always perform to their best every time they get in the ring. Ricky's fought alot better in the past, but he hasn't had so many obstacles to overcome in the past.
Yes. However I think Hatton has realised he cant perform to the level or with the same effect against the bigger and stronger boys of Welter, as he has at light-welter.

Given Hatton's post-fight comments the lad is honest enough to admit light-welter is where he should be. Hatton has given up his two belts at Light-welter, whilst the belt he holds at welter - is a belt that he knows isnt really in his interests to defend.

I think the gamble to give up two world titles at light-welter to step up into welter hasnt really paid off. Hatton cant really credibly fight any other fighter at welter without first giving Callazo a rematch - and I am sure that is a scenario Ricky's promoters would not have factored in prior to Saturday's fight. And given Saturday's fight, rematching Callzao is an option that Ricky's team will not be keen to take.

I think Ricky's team will be reassessing his career path. The tough transition from light-welter to welter may have been under-estimated (by Ricky's promoters) on the basis of Mayweather and Gatti's seemingly easy move up.

I don't think it matters what belts Hatton holds at the moment, with HBO backing him and Rickys reputation he shouldn't have any problems lining up the BIG fights.

Hatton was pretty much forced into fighting Collazo as HBO quite rightly wouldn't payroll a fight against anybody and Collazo was one of the few fighters that were left that was acceptable to them. Ricky has always said his ideal fighting weight was at 140 and he's never said that the move to 147 was permanent i.e.he'll go up and down according to where the fights are.

I'm pretty sure that ideally Ricky would have liked to have stopped at 140 for his last fight, but there were other factors stopping him from doing this

liamlion · Post by **liamlion** » 16 May 2006, 08:19

Chambers2 wrote:
liamlion wrote:
Chambers2 wrote:Hatton moved up in weight, fought on away turf, ground out a difficult win against a very good southpaw opponent IMO, whilst entertaining and became a 2-weight World champion, so I'd definately class it as a success.

We were hoping for a more precise outing from Ricky, but this is boxing and fighters can't always perform to their best every time they get in the ring. Ricky's fought alot better in the past, but he hasn't had so many obstacles to overcome in the past.
Yes. However I think Hatton has realised he cant perform to the level or with the same effect against the bigger and stronger boys of Welter, as he has at light-welter.

Given Hatton's post-fight comments the lad is honest enough to admit light-welter is where he should be. Hatton has given up his two belts at Light-welter, whilst the belt he holds at welter - is a belt that he knows isnt really in his interests to defend.

I think the gamble to give up two world titles at light-welter to step up into welter hasnt really paid off. Hatton cant really credibly fight any other fighter at welter without first giving Callazo a rematch - and I am sure that is a scenario Ricky's promoters would not have factored in prior to Saturday's fight. And given Saturday's fight, rematching Callzao is an option that Ricky's team will not be keen to take.

I think Ricky's team will be reassessing his career path. The tough transition from light-welter to welter may have been under-estimated (by Ricky's promoters) on the basis of Mayweather and Gatti's seemingly easy move up.
I don't think it matters what belts Hatton holds at the moment, with HBO backing him and Rickys reputation he shouldn't have any problems lining up the BIG fights.

Hatton was pretty much forced into fighting Collazo as HBO quite rightly wouldn't payroll a fight against anybody and Collazo was one of the few fighters that were left that was acceptable to them. Ricky has always said his ideal fighting weight was at 140 and he's never said that the move to 147 was permanent i.e.he'll go up and down according to where the fights are.

I'm pretty sure that ideally Ricky would have liked to have stopped at 140 for his last fight, but there were other factors stopping him from doing this

Yeah, I agree with most of that. I only mention the belts really in relation to the possibility that Ricky returns to light-welter. There are some less obvious big fights at that weight and so to pack the place out and to create a bit of excitement its gonna be unification fights that are used as the selling point as opposed to the potential opposition of fighters like Corley or M'Baye (ie the belts are gonna mean more than the names of the 'modest opposition' - as per the Maussa fight).

My concern for Ricky is that if his next fight is at Welter, surely its gotta be a rematch with Callazo? Hatton's reputation will be attacked if he side steps Callazo. I can see Hatton prefering a fight with Gatti, but Callazo and Hatton at welter is unfinished business.

shoutout · Post by **shoutout** » 18 May 2006, 01:42

liamlion wrote:
Chambers2 wrote:
liamlion wrote: Yes. However I think Hatton has realised he cant perform to the level or with the same effect against the bigger and stronger boys of Welter, as he has at light-welter.

Given Hatton's post-fight comments the lad is honest enough to admit light-welter is where he should be. Hatton has given up his two belts at Light-welter, whilst the belt he holds at welter - is a belt that he knows isnt really in his interests to defend.

I think the gamble to give up two world titles at light-welter to step up into welter hasnt really paid off. Hatton cant really credibly fight any other fighter at welter without first giving Callazo a rematch - and I am sure that is a scenario Ricky's promoters would not have factored in prior to Saturday's fight. And given Saturday's fight, rematching Callzao is an option that Ricky's team will not be keen to take.

I think Ricky's team will be reassessing his career path. The tough transition from light-welter to welter may have been under-estimated (by Ricky's promoters) on the basis of Mayweather and Gatti's seemingly easy move up.
I don't think it matters what belts Hatton holds at the moment, with HBO backing him and Rickys reputation he shouldn't have any problems lining up the BIG fights.

Hatton was pretty much forced into fighting Collazo as HBO quite rightly wouldn't payroll a fight against anybody and Collazo was one of the few fighters that were left that was acceptable to them. Ricky has always said his ideal fighting weight was at 140 and he's never said that the move to 147 was permanent i.e.he'll go up and down according to where the fights are.

I'm pretty sure that ideally Ricky would have liked to have stopped at 140 for his last fight, but there were other factors stopping him from doing this
Yeah, I agree with most of that. I only mention the belts really in relation to the possibility that Ricky returns to light-welter. There are some less obvious big fights at that weight and so to pack the place out and to create a bit of excitement its gonna be unification fights that are used as the selling point as opposed to the potential opposition of fighters like Corley or M'Baye (ie the belts are gonna mean more than the names of the 'modest opposition' - as per the Maussa fight).

My concern for Ricky is that if his next fight is at Welter, surely its gotta be a rematch with Callazo? Hatton's reputation will be attacked if he side steps Callazo. I can see Hatton prefering a fight with Gatti, but Callazo and Hatton at welter is unfinished business.

gatti/baldomir winner is dream fight for ricky right now...maximum reward for his rep (especially if its gatti) with minimal risk!!

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 18 May 2006, 02:52

to answer the title of the topic, i would say "anticlimax"

ricky thought that the script had already been written, and that he would ride decisive wins over collazo and maybe another welter titlist on the way to a superfight with mayweather and then prompt, wealthy retirement. in hindsight, that was idealism more than realism. he needs to get more experience, find his right weight, get the tough opponents at the right time - not rush in headfirst (to hard fights, to his opponents' fists) and almost get knocked out

i don't think it's a disaster, especially not winning the belt, just a sample of the bitter reality for hatton

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 18 May 2006, 02:56

shoutout2u wrote:
Max Molyneux wrote:
Terence wrote:Fans will shell out en masse for PPV of Ricky versus Gatti or Floyd so this strenuous business trip has worked out IMO.
The PPV numbers wouldn't be as big here though.
i'm sure if you add british PPV buys to the equation it would boost it a bit, but in usa, i dont think his performance was impressive enough to give him enuf of a name to bring any more PPV buys in america than mayweather-gatti did when they fought each other...360,000 or so!!

ricky needs a few more fights where he convincingly beats opposition like collazo (perhaps in rematch) to turn either of those fights into genuine megafights!! (500,000+ buys in usa)

one thing that could end up helping hatton is his vulnerability (to cuts, and to welterweight punches that he can't see coming). i was pissed off beforehand about paying PPV, but when i saw the maussa and collazo fights they were both in their own way nail biters. but yes he does need to be more convincing if he thinks we're all going to make him super rich by paying PPV every time. bit cocky really for him to think that all he has to do is turn up to be a PPV megastar