Prime Vitali vs Fury/Wilder/Joshua?

[tiny_acres]

It appears to me that Vitali gets a pass for a weak resume because his brother beat certain fighters, then Vitali did not have to face any of them.
You can't give credit to Vitali for Wlad's wins or Wlad for Vitali's wins.

[oogiebe]

It appears to me that Vitali gets a pass for a weak resume because his brother beat certain fighters, then Vitali did not have to face any of them.
You can't give credit to Vitali for Wlad's wins or Wlad for Vitali's wins.

You don't need a PhD in "DUH" for that. Who said that anyway?

[tiny_acres]

It appears to me that Vitali gets a pass for a weak resume because his brother beat certain fighters, then Vitali did not have to face any of them.
You can't give credit to Vitali for Wlad's wins or Wlad for Vitali's wins.

You don't need a PhD in "DUH" for that. Who said that anyway?

I've read too many posts from different topics saying that they beat the best of their time.
NO NO NO. Vitali beat a few Wlad beat the others.

[Deserter]

Yet again, more historical revisionism at play. As illustrated by this Boxing News summary (http://www.boxingnewsonline.net/on-this ... uel-peter/) and other examples such as the preview from doghouseboxing (http://www.doghouseboxing.com/Brad/Brad101108.htm), Peter was viewed at the time as a "young, lights out puncher". This was not the latter day blubbery Peter we're talking about, it was the fighter whose only loss at that point had been to Vladimir, who he had dropped three times in the fight.

In essence, at the point he faced Vitali he was regarded as a crude boxer, but very dangerous KO artist... remind you of anyone else? No, of course, Wilder has never been described as such...

As for the continued (and increasingly laboured) attempt to justify the comparison of Moorer's KO defeat at the hands of Foreman with Vitali's injury loss to Byrd, I can only point to one word - context. Funnily enough it matters in boxing... it's why observers are willing to regard Whittaker's loss to Ramirez as a travesty, rather than taking it as face value, to use just one example.

If it makes you feel better, feel free to use references like 'buffoon'. I won't resort to such pettiness, but the irony given the attempt to compare Moorer with Vitali in terms of manner of defeat isn't lost on me...

[oogiebe]

It appears to me that Vitali gets a pass for a weak resume because his brother beat certain fighters, then Vitali did not have to face any of them.
You can't give credit to Vitali for Wlad's wins or Wlad for Vitali's wins.

You don't need a PhD in "DUH" for that. Who said that anyway?

I've read too many posts from different topics saying that they beat the best of their time.
NO NO NO. Vitali beat a few Wlad beat the others.

At the time it seemed they fought for each other so to speak. Byrd whupped by Wlad after Vitali quit vs Byrd. Sanders whupped by Vitali after he destroyed Wlad. LOL...like pro wrestling.

[tiny_acres]

You don't need a PhD in "DUH" for that. Who said that anyway?

I've read too many posts from different topics saying that they beat the best of their time.
NO NO NO. Vitali beat a few Wlad beat the others.

At the time it seemed they fought for each other so to speak. Byrd whupped by Wlad after Vitali quit vs Byrd. Sanders whupped by Vitali after he destroyed Wlad. LOL...like pro wrestling.

Exactly

[Onetimeonly]

I'm not accusing him of ducking anyone, but he found the shit in a shallow pool. The people who say Lennox ran from a rematch dismiss him pulling out more than once against rahman. He just gets ridiculous passes like no fighter I've ever seen.

[oogiebe]

I'm not accusing him of ducking anyone, but he found the poo in a shallow pool. The people who say Lennox ran from a rematch dismiss him pulling out more than once against rahman. He just gets ridiculous passes like no fighter I've ever seen.

I will take your word for it. I'll pay more attention. To me he's a difficult fighter to rank.

[Onetimeonly]

He's the perfect example of why you don't rank fighters based off of whom you think would win. We're all wrong all the time.

[oogiebe]

He's the perfect example of why you don't rank fighters based off of whom you think would win. We're all wrong all the time.

Not to kick a dead horse, but for me, not having a good comp for Frazier/Tyson made it a difficult analysis for me. So I went with what I've seen from both fighters. I may be wrong, but that's how I saw it. There is nothing with Vitali. Coming in; hands down; and thudding a third rate fighter is of no significant help when comping him to anyone else.

[Onetimeonly]

Fight analysis is exactly whom you think would win. This guy is routinely called top 10 ever on this forum by some of the same people that mock wilders resume. Ruiz, rahman, maskaev, valuev, etc... He fought nobody.

[oogiebe]

Fight analysis is exactly whom you think would win. This guy is routinely called top 10 ever on this forum by some of the same people that mock wilders resume. Ruiz, rahman, maskaev, valuev, etc... He fought nobody.

I agree. At best he has an "incomplete." He was injured from 2005 - 2008. That was Wlad's era of nobodies.

[oogiebe]

Dug this up from Heavyweight Action.com
Sad state of the Klitchko era. Top HW's 2004-2009
makes me appreciate today's division even more.

Top Heavyweights:

2004 Byrd - V.Klitschko -Toney -Sanders -Ruiz
2005 V.Klitschko -Byrd -Ruiz -Rahman -Toney
2006 -Rahman -Toney -Byrd -Brewster -W.Klitschko
2007 -W.Klitschko -Peter -Maskev -Valuev -Chagaev
2008 -W.Klitschko -Peter -Chagaev -Valuev -Maskev
2009 -W.Klitschko -V.Klitschko -Chagaev -Povetkin -Valuev

[Onetimeonly]

Fight analysis is exactly whom you think would win. This guy is routinely called top 10 ever on this forum by some of the same people that mock wilders resume. Ruiz, rahman, maskaev, valuev, etc... He fought nobody.

I agree. At best he has an "incomplete." He was injured from 2005 - 2008. That was Wlad's era of nobodies.

Wlad actually fought the best of the weak crop. Can't fault him.

[oogiebe]

Fight analysis is exactly whom you think would win. This guy is routinely called top 10 ever on this forum by some of the same people that mock wilders resume. Ruiz, rahman, maskaev, valuev, etc... He fought nobody.

I agree. At best he has an "incomplete." He was injured from 2005 - 2008. That was Wlad's era of nobodies.

Wlad actually fought the best of the weak crop. Can't fault him.

Not his fault at all. Wlad fought everyone he could. Even Thompson twice if memory serves me correctly.

[oogiebe]

I just refreshed my memory on the Vitali. At the time (late '90's through 2012), he seemed like a brute and he was. Great chin; decent power (could've been better if he didn't slap so much) and really poor defense. In the Sanders fight he was hurt more than once and was fortunate that Sanders tired under Vitali's relentless pressure and sturdiness. In the Lewis fight, Lewis found the uppercut later in the fight and was definitely turning the fight to his advantage. Lewis was in the worst shape of his career and past his peak.

So on to the question. Vitali was slow and open to overhand rights...Wilder would have had hurt him and hurt him badly. Wilder would be able to stand up to Vitali's punching but not the other way around. Wilder would be too fast as well. Vitali's best chance for a win against the three would probably be Wilder.

AJ would have demolished Vitali as AJ's skills are way better and the variety of his attack would have overwhelmed Vitali whose hands were always too low, and too slow. AJ's straight punching would beat Vitali to the punch all night long

Fury would have out boxed him by a mile. His would be the easiest win, albeit by decision.

[jamamb]

i think he couldve competed with any of them, though easily could go 0-3. i only recall sanders hurting him once and tbf thats no worse then being hurt by eric molina. i think his defense was heavily based around being taller and able to just lean away but thats a problem vs these guys, who arent short blobs

[Skalamanga]

Prime Vitali is H2H the GOAT.

[Skalamanga]

Vitali vs Wilder is not even a question, it's derogatory to Vitali to even question if he'd beat Wilder.

He'd beat Joshua with ease. Fury might present some issues but I'm sure he'd KO Fury too.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Vitali could barely touch Kevin Johnson floundering on the ropes in front of him. Not that wilder is difficult to find but vitali not only lacked his brothers power, he had nowhere near his variety

Johnson was a terrific survivor, only ko'd twice and later in his career. I'm not saying Vitali was better than Wilder, but just being fair. No one said Vitali had any skills over his brother, just the chin and durability. He was a thudder.

I think vitali was better than wilder. He was a slapper, not a thudder and he would definitely struggle to land on guys the size of wilder and Joshua. Johnson definitely survives first and foremost, but he didn't even take much punishment.

Vitali may not have had the one punch KO of his brother, but he was certainly not a slapper, he was a bit of an arm puncher, but he threw a lot and landed a lot and slaps they were not.

[Tuan_Jim]

Vitali could have perhaps done more had he gone straight for the real title. Being already 30 years old, staying in Germany and biffing around Obed Sullivan and Ed Mahone for the (what was then) second-tier WBO belt didn't advance him much. Had they instead been putting him in with names in the 90s on big US cards he might have been right in the mix with Lewis and Holyfield--but given his meek surrender versus Byrd, and the way fans gloss over that flop, perhaps it's better for him that he wasn't around during that era. He certainly had his hands full with an old and fat Lewis--I doubt things would have improved against the younger, hungry Lewis who still felt he had something to prove.

[Dixonian]

i think he couldve competed with any of them, though easily could go 0-3. i only recall sanders hurting him once and tbf thats no worse then being hurt by eric molina. i think his defense was heavily based around being taller and able to just lean away but thats a problem vs these guys, who arent short blobs

Sanders is on a much higher level than Molina. Even an unfit Sanders had freak handspeed and punching power. Tell you what, I would have picked Sanders to destroy Wilder in the manner that he did Wlad.

[oogiebe]

Johnson was a terrific survivor, only ko'd twice and later in his career. I'm not saying Vitali was better than Wilder, but just being fair. No one said Vitali had any skills over his brother, just the chin and durability. He was a thudder.

I think vitali was better than wilder. He was a slapper, not a thudder and he would definitely struggle to land on guys the size of wilder and Joshua. Johnson definitely survives first and foremost, but he didn't even take much punishment.

Vitali may not have had the one punch KO of his brother, but he was certainly not a slapper, he was a bit of an arm puncher, but he threw a lot and landed a lot and slaps they were not.

Yes, arm puncher is more precise. I think I too said slapper, but you are right.

[Dixonian]

Vitali v Wilder: Vitali by late stoppage. Wilder always has a punchers chance but Vitali's defence was better than often given credit for. Vitali's all round ring nous, toughness and workrate would win the day here. Will likely have to overcome a couple of shaky moments ala Corrie Sanders.

Vitali v Joshua: A real close fight. Could go either way on the scorecards. But I'll just edge Vitali on workrate.

Vitali v Fury: Another one for the scorecards, and another close one. I'll edge for Fury on another close decision.

But really, who knows?

Arguably we never got to see the best of Vitali as rotator cuff, knee and back injuries seemed to plague for much of his career (at least at the highest level). Check out any of his earlier fights and you'll see his handspeed is much quicker than it was later in his career. It was arguably the speed that gave him power as he never delivered punches with full weight behind it.

His footwork was also underrated - as was Wlad's for most of his career.

[Ruthless-RKO]

I agree. At best he has an "incomplete." He was injured from 2005 - 2008. That was Wlad's era of nobodies.

Wlad actually fought the best of the weak crop. Can't fault him.

Not his fault at all. Wlad fought everyone he could. Even Thompson twice if memory serves me correctly.

He fought the best HW’s that were was at his era. All the best mandatories.