Joyce vs. Ortiz, who wins ?

ValMar · Post by **ValMar** » 14 Jan 2019, 13:42

Sam Jones, manager of Joe Joyce, claims that the match Joyce-Ortiz will happen this year, 95 %.
What do you think about ? Who wins ? How ?

First of all, I would really like to see this fight, and may the best man.............

dagilechia · Post by **dagilechia** » 14 Jan 2019, 13:43

Ortiz as long as he is not totally shot due to his age

gilgamesh · Post by **gilgamesh** » 14 Jan 2019, 13:44

If Joyce is able to win at this level so early into his Pro career that'd be pretty damn impressive. Ballsy move on his part to jump in with an opponent of this level this early into his Pro run I must say.

I would think Ortiz should still have enough to win this, but it's hard to say for sure because we haven't seen Joyce tested at this level so we can't be sure what he's truly capable of.

oogiebe · Post by **oogiebe** » 14 Jan 2019, 14:11

I think Ortiz exploits Joyce's lack of speed and defense. Ortiz is a very well skilled and schooled boxer and he's southpaw with a good jab and power. Joyce is not ready for this just yet.

KiwiRider · Post by **KiwiRider** » 14 Jan 2019, 14:19

oogiebe wrote: ↑14 Jan 2019, 14:11 I think Ortiz exploits Joyce's lack of speed and defense. Ortiz is a very well skilled and schooled boxer and he's southpaw with a good jab and power. Joyce is not ready for this just yet.

I tend to agree.
Except that at Joyce's age, he needs to move fast. Ortiz will give him at least 6 rounds of solid B level opposition, if he survives that, I think he will grind out a points win against the old fella.
Let's not forget, Eddie dropped Ortiz off the books a couple of years back for poor performance, just because Ortiz gave Wilder kittens dosent make him a Renaissance man.

oogiebe · Post by **oogiebe** » 14 Jan 2019, 14:23

KiwiRider wrote: ↑14 Jan 2019, 14:19
oogiebe wrote: ↑14 Jan 2019, 14:11 I think Ortiz exploits Joyce's lack of speed and defense. Ortiz is a very well skilled and schooled boxer and he's southpaw with a good jab and power. Joyce is not ready for this just yet.
I tend to agree.
Except that at Joyce's age, he needs to move fast. Ortiz will give him at least 6 rounds of solid B level opposition, if he survives that, I think he will grind out a points win against the old fella.
Let's not forget, Eddie dropped Ortiz off the books a couple of years back for poor performance, just because Ortiz gave Wilder kittens dosent make him a Renaissance man.

That is exactly the quandary that Joyce finds himself in. He needs further development, but at 33 doesn't have that kind of time. I wonder if he'll be thrown to the wolves too early. I guess we'll see when his next opponent is named.

candyslim · Post by **candyslim** » 14 Jan 2019, 15:09

Joyce is used to mixing with quality as an amateur, he was elite level and a lot of that experience is transferable even if the amateur and pro games are quite distinct.I wouldn't let the fact he's had only seven pro fights cause you to underrate him I think if Ortiz can't finish him early (and Joyce seems to have a pretty good chin) then Joyce overhauls him in the second half of the fight and may even stop him.

The only thing that we can be certain about with regard to this match is that it is intriguing and a case can be made for either fighter to win.

oogiebe · Post by **oogiebe** » 14 Jan 2019, 15:10

candyslim wrote: ↑14 Jan 2019, 15:09 Joyce is used to mixing with quality as an amateur, he was elite level and a lot of that experience is transferable even if the amateur and pro games are quite distinct.I wouldn't let the fact he's had only seven pro fights cause you to underrate him I think if Ortiz can't finish him early (and Joyce seems to have a pretty good chin) then Joyce overhauls him in the second half of the fight and may even stop him.

The only thing that we can be certain about with regard to this match is that it is intriguing and a case can be made for either fighter to win.

All good points. Let's hope we find out!

ValMar · Post by **ValMar** » 14 Jan 2019, 15:25

I am convinced that 2015 Ortiz would destroy 2019 Joyce, but "the father time" might be a decisive factor right now.
BTW, all the top level Cuban boxers have been managed badly - Solis, Rigo, Gamboa, Dorticos, Lara, Ortiz.

gilgamesh · Post by **gilgamesh** » 14 Jan 2019, 15:28

ValMar wrote: ↑14 Jan 2019, 15:25 I am convinced that 2015 Ortiz would destroy 2019 Joyce, but "the father time" might be a decisive factor right now.
BTW, all the top level Cuban boxers have been managed badly - Solis, Rigo, Gamboa, Dorticos, Lara, Ortiz.

I don't know if it's that they're managed badly or if it's that they start to live it up a bit too much after getting a taste of freedom away from Cuba.

I do know because Pro Boxing is outlawed in Cuba they don't have a built-in fanbase like fighters from other countries which probably doesn't work to their favor in terms of promotion or incentive to push them by promoters.

EDIT: Switch that "Probably doesn't work to their favor" for "Definitely"

London Boy · Post by **London Boy** » 14 Jan 2019, 15:42

Is this a wind up!? Geezer is a novice pro with a plodding style. He’ll get hurt badly if this is made.

marvelous marv · Post by **marvelous marv** » 14 Jan 2019, 21:47

Fighting Ortiz is like fighting a computer that is always on balance and ready to counter anything you do. Any mistake he capitalizes on. He wont press the action if you box cautiously, he will just slowly take what you give. A wide open fighter like Joyce should not take this guy on until his technical skills are higher.

gilgamesh · Post by **gilgamesh** » 14 Jan 2019, 21:50

marvelous marv wrote: ↑14 Jan 2019, 21:47 Fighting Ortiz is like fighting a computer that is always on balance and ready to counter anything you do. Any mistake he capitalizes on. He wont press the action if you box cautiously, he will just slowly take what you give. A wide open fighter like Joyce should not take this guy on until his technical skills are higher.

Considering Joyce's age I'm not sure he'll ever have the time to improve enough to be able to legitimately beat a guy of this caliber.

Honestly though if they're trying to rush him into contender status there are certainly guys they could match him with that are more his speed. Of all the contenders who don't hold belts Ortiz is probably the most dangerous. Either him or Povetkin.

There are several other lower Top 10 guys that wouldn't be nearly as much of a handful. Not sure why Joyce's people aren't targetting one of those guys.

A Carlos Takam or a Bryant Jennings for instance.

TheBeast · Post by **TheBeast** » 14 Jan 2019, 23:49

Ortiz... Joyce is slow and obvious... easily puzzled too.

candyslim · Post by **candyslim** » 15 Jan 2019, 04:04

London Boy wrote: ↑14 Jan 2019, 15:42 Is this a wind up!? Geezer is a novice pro with a plodding style. He’ll get hurt badly if this is made.

He may have only had 7 pro fights but he was a very highly experienced and successful amateur. That's no guarantee of pro success we all know that, but it makes him a totally different proposition to your average 7 fight pro.

He isn't the quickest but he has a lot of good attributes. I'm a bit embarrassed to mention them in the same sentence but ... George Foreman wasn't known for his speed of hand or foot, and he seemed to do ok.

Joyce probably doesn't beat a prime Ortiz but the guy is almost forty even if you believe the official figure.

kych · Post by **kych** » 15 Jan 2019, 10:57

Another fight, Oleksanar Usyk vs Joe Joyce from one WSB event as to YouTube not appear in their boxrec record. Please explain?

oogiebe · Post by **oogiebe** » 15 Jan 2019, 11:17

kych wrote: ↑15 Jan 2019, 10:57 Another fight, Oleksanar Usyk vs Joe Joyce from one WSB event as to YouTube not appear in their boxrec record. Please explain?

That was amateurs no?

Enlightened-One · Post by **Enlightened-One** » 15 Jan 2019, 11:20

Ortiz and Joyce are both with Al Haymon, so there are clearly no political barriers preventing this bout from taking place. However, the Cuban is at the front of the queue, just behind Dominic Breazeale, to face Deontay Wilder (though ‘The Bronze Bomber’ has also received the blessing from the WBC to face Tyson Fury again) and Sam Jones hasn’t initiated contract negotiations with ‘King Kong’ either.

At the moment it seems like a bit of a publicity stunt, because Joyce’s team keep mentioning big-name fighters to grab the media spotlight, but we rarely hear about any financial offers Joe’s team proposes to the names being mentioned.

I like Joe Joyce’s persona when he’s being interviewed and I wish him well, but he seems to be a hype job that stylistically fights as though he’s a slow-motion Rock 'Em Sock 'Em Robot. He’s like the 1970’s version of George Foreman, but minus the talent, minus the power, minus the jab and also much slower.

They’re trying to fast-track the Brit’s career because of his age, rather than him being the heavyweight equivalent of Vasyl Lomachenko.

Mark my words, Joe Joyce’s career path will inevitably tread the very same steps taken by the previously hyped-up American, Michael Grant.

There’s no reason for Luis Ortiz to risk the Deontay Wilder payday to face Joe Joyce, so I don’t think this fight will happen, regardless of Sam Jones’ claims.

Have you ever seen Sam Jones talk during interviews, he keeps interrupting Joe Joyce whenever he’s being interviewed and tries to steal the spotlight? He’s like a dodgy cocky salesman working at a second-hand car dealership! The guy is too young, too fresh and too inexperienced to possess any credibility.

Sam Jones has also recently promised that Joyce would win a world title before the end of 2019. Should we create separate polls to discuss the outcome of fights between Joe and the likes of Fury, Wilder and Joshua?

I’d love to be proven wrong and watch a bout between Ortiz and Joyce… I really would… I’d be over-the-moon with joy, but let’s face it, it ain’t going to happen. And if it does, I expect the Brit to suffer the first loss of his career, even though I’m not a fan of the hyped-up veteran Cuban either.

oogiebe · Post by **oogiebe** » 15 Jan 2019, 11:50

I don't know if I'd say Joyce ends up more like Michael Grant, but I have said before that his slow hands and lack of defense will get exposed sooner or later. If he fights Ortiz next, I'm saying sooner.

ezhmael · Post by **ezhmael** » 15 Jan 2019, 12:03

Probably too early for Joyce. He can take likes of Breazeale or Parker if they want him to move up in the rankings quickly. Then gauge his performance if he can be in the same ring the other other top contenders.

oogiebe · Post by **oogiebe** » 15 Jan 2019, 12:07

ezhmael wrote: ↑15 Jan 2019, 12:03 Probably too early for Joyce. He can take likes of Breazeale or Parker if they want him to move up in the rankings quickly. Then gauge his performance if he can be in the same ring the other other top contenders.

Fighting Breazeale would be a good step and I think Joyce can beat Breazeale pretty handily and get precious rounds of work doing so. Parker would be interesting in that Parker is tough as nails and can move ok. Maybe in another fight or two.

StrapMeUp · Post by **StrapMeUp** » 16 Jan 2019, 13:44

Ortiz KO

SugarArmour7 · Post by **SugarArmour7** » 17 Jan 2019, 10:20

Ortiz Vs Joyce? All i can say is hahahahahahahahahaha